Sen. Ring (D-FL) sponsored effort to move FL primary date up: "I have absolutely no regrets."

[Emit]

"I think we have successfully blown up this antiquated primary process...I have absolutely no regrets."

... The Florida effort to move the date was sponsored by a Democrat, state Sen. Jeremy Ring, also of Broward, who remains unapologetic about his role. "I think we have successfully blown up this antiquated primary process," he said in a phone interview last week. "I have absolutely no regrets." ...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/30/florida /

... Ring said that even with the boycott, Florida Democrats are no worse off than in past primaries.

"Back then, the nominees were already decided by the time our primary came around, so the candidates would come here to raise money but not to campaign for our votes," he said.

"So what are they doing now? The same thing. We're no worse - if anything, we're better."

"My hope is we've blown up the whole primary system," Ring said. "It would be the biggest legacy we'll get from this legislation." ...

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/21/me-primary-result-of-move-is-division/?news-politics

... Mr. Ring said the Senate would most "likely" endorse the leap to Jan. 29 by the time the legislative session ends in May. The Senate’s current bill calls for moving the primary to Feb. 19, but Mr. Ring said that date was serving as a placeholder while lawmakers debate the issue.

"Right now it looks like Jan. 29 would be more favorable," he said from Tallahassee. "One thing you can be sure of is that Florida will be relevant during the primaries." ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/23/us/politics/23florida.html


Ring was celebrating with Crist when Crist signed the bill:

Here's the press release from Governor Crist's signing ceremony in West Palm Beach May 21.

...He was joined at the bill signing ceremony by Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections Arthur Anderson, Congressman Robert Wexler, bill sponsors Representatives David Rivera (R-Miami) and Dorothy Hukill (R-Port Orange) and Senators Lee Constantine (R-Altamonte Springs) and Jeremy Ring (D-Margate) and other legislators...

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/238312.php

"Getting a national 'cat fund' will be stronger than getting 210 convention delegates."

... Sen. Jeremy Ring, D-Margate, said that even without Democratic delegates — and only half the GOP delegates — at stake, "it's going to mean everything" for a frontrunner going into the coast-to-coast primaries and caucuses a week after Florida.

"I'm confident we're going to know the nominees after Feb. 5, and a lot of that will have to do with what happens in Florida," said Ring. "The reason I pushed the bill as hard as I did is, it's imperative that candidates start talking about issues important to Florida, which has happened. Getting a national 'cat fund' will be stronger than getting 210 convention delegates."

Creation of a national catastrophe fund to help states with massive hurricanes or killer earthquakes was not mentioned much in the first four states with primaries and caucuses. But Crist asked all visiting Republicans about it.

http://www.rpof.org/article.php?id=236

Ring predicts the delegates will be seated:

... State Sen. Jeremy Ring, D-Fort Lauderdale, who sponsored the bill that moved the primary, predicted his party will relent and seat the Michigan and Florida delegations. Democratic candidates have already offended party activists by not campaigning in those states, and Ring said neither Clinton nor Obama can afford to write them off.

"Whoever is the nominee has to come back to Florida in November," said Ring. "They're going to have to make it good with Florida, and the quickest, easiest way to make it good with Florida is to seat the delegation." ...

http://tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008802100322

Lastly, and equally important, this bill was a legislative train. The Sierra Club explains further:

Democracy and Environment:
2007 Paper Trail mixed with bad citizen initiative language

Our Position: monitor
Bill Number: HB537/SB1174
Sponsor: Senators Constantine, Dockery, Villalobos and Rep. Hukill
Legislative Session: 2007

5/21/07 Governor Crist signed the bill into law. Here is our letter we delivered to the Governor:

May 19, 2007
...

Dear Governor Crist,

The following organizations appreciate your support and commitment to securing funding for paper ballot voting machines for all Florida voters, especially those in the fifteen counties where the touchscreen machines currently exist. We understand you intend to sign House Bill 537 into law next week, but we have some concerns about other provisions in the bill that we would like to share with you.

The citizens of Florida deserve to have their vote counted when they show up to vote on election day and they also deserve the right amend our constitution through the citizen initiative process without the additional hurdles and barriers contained in HB537. We agree with your original goal to replace touchscreen voting machines with paper ballot optical scan machines, however HB537 goes much further than that. The legislation before you makes numerous changes to election laws that were added on at the last minute and should have been more fully debated. In fact, we would urge you to convene a blue ribbon panel to review Florida’s elections laws and its enforcement mechanisms. The panel would review the new laws adopted this year and recommend changes to be considered by the legislature.

Here are a number of concerns that we have with the new legislation:

*Section 48 of the bill would limit the number of investigations that could be undertaken by the Elections Commission; (See Miami Herald, 5.15.2007, “Elections panel leader oppose part of Voting bill.”) Requiring that you have to have personal knowledge of an election law violation before you can file a complaint with the Elections Commission will mean many possible violation will go uninvestigated. This provision will make our election laws much harder to enforce.

*Sections 1-2 of the bill stifles voter registration efforts by grassroots organizations and strips key voter protections. The language addressing third party voter registration efforts will impact an ongoing court case in which similar restrictions that were passed in 2005 have been enjoined from being enforced. While the new language reduces the penalties that can be imposed on third party groups doing voter registration, it is still too restrictive and will likely mean that some well intentioned grassroots organizations will cease their voter registration efforts for fear of being penalized.

*Section 25 imposes new restrictions against citizen initiative petition drives and includes an onerous and expensive new process for gathering petition revocations. Under this new process, citizens who had signed a petition would be singled out and lobbied to subsequently “Revoke” the original petition signature. This new revocation process will create a cottage industry of companies who specialize in collecting petition revocations and could result in citizens being harassed to sign revocation forms in their own homes. It will also create a burdensome new workload for our county Supervisors of Elections.

This 77 page bill became a legislative train for various other pieces of legislation, most of which were never discussed and had not been filed as separate bills. The final bill looks very little like the original HB 537 which passed the House floor on March 21 by a vote of 115-1. The bill now makes changes in 52 Florida Statutes, ranging across 13 different chapters of Florida law. We respectfully argue this is not a good way to write election law in Florida. And while we do support the change to paper ballots which was fully debated and discussed in committee, we believe the other changes included in this bill deserve to be reviewed by a blue ribbon panel that will take a more comprehensive and thorough approach.

Thank you for your leadership and your consideration of these basic public policy issues.

Florida Chapter Sierra Club...

~snip~

So, is this 80-page bill a Legislative TRAIN? You betcha. Parts of this bill (there are 57 “sections”) came from various bills and amendments from both the Senate and House; the final bill looks very little like the original HB 537 which passed the House floor on March 21 by a vote of 115-1; and, for example, when the bill was substituted for SB 960, which had already become a train in the Senate, the legislation faced 20 floor amendments during the last six days of session. The bill now changes or creates 52 sections of Florida Statutes, ranging across 13 different Chapters of Florida law. ...

This bill makes all future initiative campaigns very difficult to even put new changes on the ballot anywhere in Florida (besides proposed constitutional amendments). This restrictive new structure will apply to Florida Hometown Democracy, as well as any future reemergence of Redistricting Initiatives, or clarifications or strengthening of Constitutional Rights, citizen-sponsored proposals for changes in government financing or election opportunities, etc. The so called good government bill changed dramatically for the worse on a 3-2 vote on April 24 when Senators Fasano, Diaz de la Portilla and Webster voted to use the paper trail bill against citizen initiatives. ...

More detail that chronicles how the final bill was morphed at link: http://florida.sierraclub.org/tracker/11497.html

edit typo

[Tatiana]

1. And the Republicans are laughing at the way they played FL "Dems" for fools.

Florida Republican Party Chairman Jim Greer said of the Democrats: "At the end of the day, they regret the decision they made. It not only disenfranchised voters, it had an adverse effect on the selection of their nominee. How it turned out on our side? We're very happy with it."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/state/epaper/2008/02/07/m1a_FLA_DEMS_0207.html

[sandnsea]

2. Thank you

Has MadFloridian got that? I think we should organize a protest outside this guy's office and force him to say these things on national television so the whole country knows what went down in Florida. The son of a bitch. Somebody needs to go smack him for me.

[Emit]

3. You're welcome

Yes, I sent MadFloridian a link, and posted some of this info on her thread earlier today.

I have relatives in Florida who are really pissed at this mess -- been trying to keep up with it and send what info I find. MadFloridian's posts and journals have been very helpful.

:hi:

[Maribelle]

7. Clueless.

Truly.

[Little Star]

10. Yep!

[Political Heretic]

4. I don't live in FL, so madfloridian yell at me if I'm wrong but:

WHAT A FUCKING DUMBASS!!!!

[Maribelle]

5. In your Ring pillory, you've failed to mention what Ring sponsored died and was never voted on.

Perhaps by accident, perhaps on purpose?

The only Senate bill in 2007 to address the primary date and was never voted on:
http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&BillNum=0960


And when Mr. Ring said "Right now it looks like Jan. 29 would be more favorable" the Democrats had no choice. Either go along, or go home. By an overwhelming majority, from 2006, the republicans had every intention of pushing through primary date changes without even one single vote from any democrat anywhere in Florida ever.

I have no problem nor personal interest in this Ring hate fest y'all insist on showing off ad nauseam. But just remember that as you continue on with this slamming of your straw man, you are not only showing off your total ignorance of the true problem in Florida, you are also contributing to the disinformation campaign that has been so successful in skewing the truth, helping others to not know the true facts that matter as well.

My only advise to you would be that you need to be kinder to your brain than this, truly.


Despite your blatant efforts to twist the truth, the true facts are recorded in history thusly:

On November 20, 2006 the new Florida Speaker of the House took office with a book called “100 Innovative Ideas for Florida’s Future” tucked under his arm, designed to be the republican's agenda for the upcoming session.

In the book, Idea number 37 was moving the state’s primary date

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=158932

On Jan. 23, 2007 Rep. David Rivera (R-Miami) filed HB 537
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=35049&

...and thus began the abusive destruction of Florida's c. 1.7 million totally innocent Democrats that came out to vote on January 29th.

The problem we now face is where will this destruction end? By the 2008 General Election? By the next Floridian presidential preference primary in 2012? When the giant sucking sound of Floridian Democrats re-registering as Republicans has diminished the democratic rolls so badly there are zero elected state democrats? Where?

[MonkeyFunk]

8. Thank you Maribelle

Some people here are far more invested in making sure Howard Dean doesn't take a bit of flak over this issue than in actually finding a way to make sure we don't lose the GE because of this crapfest. They don't realize that if we lose in November, Dean's out anyway.

[Maribelle]

9. You're welcome, Monkey

:dem:

[WilyWondr]

21. Howard Dean should not be blamed

for the stupidity of others. He made numerous attempts at getting them to leave the dates alone and they ignored him. What was he supposed to do? Go down there and hold them hostage or something? They are the representatives of the people of Florida...not Howard Dean's representatives in the state of Florida. Putting the blame on anyone other than the people of Florida for this mess would not be addressing the perps of the problem.

Maybe one of you looking to blame Howard Dean could explain:

1. How Howard Dean changed the date?
2. How Howard Dean made the rules that made a 1/29/08 primary meaningless?



This whole line of reasoning that something needs to be done about this now is just silly. They voted on this last year. That was the time for anyone in Florida to contact their representative to express their wishes.

You cannot change the past. Get over it.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. I'm not blaming any one side

I believe it was a stupid game of chicken and both sides are responsible, and both sides lost. But now it has to be resolved.

[LiberalFighter]

11. How did the Florida Democrats vote on the bill to move the primary up?

[Maribelle]

12. The Democrats twice filed updates to HB 537 Page4 Line6 - trying to override the republican date

but failed to get it changed to the first Tuesday in February


http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=874499.doc&DocumentType=Amendments&BillNumber=0537&Session=2007

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=290105.doc&DocumentType=Amendments&BillNumber=0537&Session=2007


As the bill evolved through the house it became a full-fledged election reform which Florida desperately need - thus democrats voted for the reformed bill. However, republicans would have passed this bill without a single democratic vote.

[madfloridian]

17. The DNC had the floor transcripts where they goofed on purpose.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

"The DNC members had handouts that included quotes by House Minority leader Dan Gelber brushing off Howard Dean, and the following transcript of Steve Geller making the motion to move the primary to Feb. 5:

Geller: "...So the Democratic leader and the Democratic leader pro tem are jointly making this motion, which we will duly show them later, that we tried not to have the election on, um, before (Feb. 5).
President: "And so Sen. Geller are you urging a negative vote or would you like us to pass this vote?"
Geller: "Oh no sir. We really, really want this. Don't we senator? (sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber)."

And more about the shenanigans:

" 1Florida Democratic Legislators sponsored the bill to move the primary to January 29th;

Jeremy Ring introduces primary bill

2.Florida House Democratic Legislators voted in committee three times for the bill to move the primary to January 29;

3.All but one Florida House Democratic Legislator vote on the floor to move the primary to January 29; and,

The one conscientious NO vote

4.Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after receiving a call from DNC Chair asking for help in opposing setting the primary date before February 5, “I don’t represent Howard Dean.”

5.Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5th, that the only reason he offer it was “to show that there was an attempt to state within the Democratic Party rules.” The amendment failed on a voice vote with no debate being offered.

6.Florida Senate Democratic Legislators voted in committee to move the primary to January;

7.Florida Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller stated on the Senate floor that he was offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5 only because he was threatened by DNC Chair Howard Dean. Sen. Geller than mocked his own amendment which failed on a voice vote without any debate."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

[Emit]

23. Yes, Gelber and Cusack did

ANd, IIRC, Gelber was a sole dissenting voice in the end.

[madfloridian]

15. Ah, Marco Rubio, speaker extraordinaire...he said the Democrats on board.

"Nobody realized it, but the storm began gathering in late March 2006. New Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio, a Miami Republican, visited Washington-based Florida reporters and touted a plan to boost Florida's influence in picking presidential nominees by moving the primary earlier than March.

"With all due respect to New Hampshire and Iowa, nowhere are you going to be on a national stage like Florida," Rubio said at the time. "You're going to get questions about Israel, Latin America, immigration. It's the old South, it's Latin, it's Midwestern, it's rural and urban."

Rubio already had Democrats on board.

"Florida Democrats are all for it," Mark Bubriski, spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said at the time.

[Tatiana]

16. OK, so they were faced with the Republican bill.

Why didn't the FL Dems just vote NO?

[madfloridian]

19. Right.....they should have voted no. They voted 115 to 1.

.

[Emit]

20. Your first link

http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&BillNum=0960

Is a 2008 Senate bill:

Senate 0960: Relating to Teaching Hospitals/Certificate of Need/Exemptions ------------------------------------------------------------------

S960 GENERAL BILL by Jones
Teaching Hospitals/Certificate of Need/Exemptions

Which bill are you referring to when you write, "The only Senate bill in 2007 to address the primary date and was never voted on..."?

Do you have a link?

[Maribelle]

27. Sorry about the bad link.

http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Year=2007&billnum=0960


http://www.fladems.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs/#q7


One of the most important factors in all of this is the timeline. Pulling quotes out of context snips their attachment to the important sequence of events. The fact that Demoocrats were 100% behind moving the primary date at one point in time, does not mean they were behind moving the primary date to Jan 29th against the instructions of the DNC at another point in time. It's a logical fallicy to not take the actual record of HB 537 at the State of Florida as proof Democrats tried but failed to have a February date for the primary:

AA 290105, Gelber Date Filed: 04/30/07, Page#: 4, Line#: 6 House: Failed 05/03/07


Link to HB 537:
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=35049&

[Emit]

28. From the information I have seen, Ring wanted the earlier date from the get go

I'm not referring to all FL legislative Democrats in my OP. I'm only focusing on Ring, who, from my post below shows he wanted an earlier primary date than even the one he originally proposed in his S1010 bill.

[Maribelle]

32. HB 537 was passed as amended Wednesday, March 21, 2007 at 1:24 PM

A formal message was sent to the Senate the next day.

HB 537 set the Presidential Preference Primary Date to: on the first Tuesday in February -or- the first Tuesday immediately following the New Hampshire presidential preference primary, - - whichever occurs first.

A while later, New Hampshire set it primary date to January 8th

Under this scenario, WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST the date of Florida's primary would have been January 15th. Things changed rapidly after that.

[Emit]

36. And apparently Ring was pleased with that early date

he wanted an earlier date, as far as I can tell, despite warnings from the DNC.

[Maribelle]

37. Straw man argument. Ring really had nothing to do with setting the date.

[madfloridian]

40. Ring introduced the effing bill....he still stands by it.

Don't give me the version bit....Ring was a big player and a very arrogant one indeed.

You have tried to discredit me often, now you are doing it to Emit?

[madfloridian]

29. Did you see my post about how Gelber killed his own amendment with laughter

and chuckles and sarcasm? It's in this thread twice, I think.

They laughed on the floor of the legislature about their own amendments.

[Emit]

22. Ring's original bill was S1010

Which when it was originally introduced, proposed changing the primary date to the first Tuesday in February or the first Tuesday following the NH primary, whichever came first:

(1) Each political party other than a minor political
14 party shall, on the first second Tuesday in February March in
15 each year the number of which is a multiple of 4, or the first
16 Tuesday immediately following the New Hampshire presidential
17 preference primary, whichever occurs first, elect one person
18 to be the candidate for nomination of such party for President
19 of the United States or select delegates to the national
20 nominating convention, as provided by party rule.

http://www.flsenate.gov/data/session/2007/Senate/bills/billtext/pdf/s1010.pdf
http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Year=2007&billnum=1010


Ring wanted to move it up earlier; Constantine and others did not:

Feb. 19 presidential primary?
SB 1010, to move Florida's presidential primary to no later than Feb. 5, will be amended in the Senate Ethics and Elections Committee tomorrow to set the primary date for Feb. 19.
"That's not a consensus bill...It's very much only the start of this discussion,'' said sponsor Jeremy Ring. He wants an earlier primary, while committee chairman Lee Constantine is not yet sold on that.
March 07, 2007

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/03/feb_19_presiden.html

The original S1010 bill had a lot of activity and was finally combined with a shell bill SB 960 introduced by Constantine and Ring:

S1010 GENERAL BILL by Ring (Compare CS/2ND ENG/H 0537, CS/CS/1ST ENG/S 0960)
Presidential Preference Primary/Date ; (THIS BILL COMBINED IN
CS/S960 & S1010) revises dates re presidential preference primary.
Amends 103.101. EFFECTIVE DATE: 07/01/2007.
02/01/07 SENATE Filed
02/13/07 SENATE Referred to Ethics and Elections
03/05/07 SENATE On Committee agenda-- Ethics and Elections, 03/08/07, 9:30
am, 412-K
03/06/07 SENATE Introduced, referred to Ethics and Elections -SJ 00061; On
Committee agenda-- Ethics and Elections, 03/08/07, 9:30 am,
412-K --Temporarily postponed
04/12/07 SENATE On Committee agenda-- Ethics and Elections, 04/17/07, 2:00
pm, 412-K
04/17/07 SENATE CS combines this bill with SB 960 -SJ 00491; CS by Ethics and
Elections; YEAS 7 NAYS 0 -SJ 00491; Original bill laid on
Table, refer to combined CS/CS/SB 960 (Laid on Table in
Senate) -SJ 00491; Link/Iden/Sim/Compare passed, refer to
CS/HB 537 (Ch. 2007-30)

http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Year=2007&billnum=1010


During the course of this bill, on April 19th, the proposed date of the primary morphed to the last Tuesday in January. In all fairness, it remains unclear to me who was responsible, at this point, for that proposed date change:

(1) Each political party other than a minor political
14 party shall, on the last second Tuesday in January March in
15 each year the number of which is a multiple of 4, elect one
16 person to be the candidate for nomination of such party for
17 President of the United States or select delegates to the
18 national nominating convention, as provided by party rule.

http://www.flsenate.gov/data/session/2007/Senate/bills/billtext/pdf/s0960c1.pdf

It had had numerous committee changes: http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Year=2007&billnum=960

And finally was combined with the final bill that passed, HB 537:

http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&BillNum=0537

Which you can see, was a legislative train(wreck), combining numerous bills and subsections from various bills.

From the start, from articles I read dating back to that time, Ring appeared less concerned with the paper trail/election reform aspect of this legislative effort than he was with moving the primary date up to bring attention to Florida. Throughout the process, one can see from the Staff Analysis at these links that discussion surrounded the effects of these proposed primary date changes in relation to respective party rules and sanctions:

http://www.flsenate.gov/data/session/2007/Senate/bills/analysis/pdf/2007s1010.ee.pdf

[Tatiana]

25. EXCELLENT RESPONSE. Unf-ingbelievable. Ring should be gone like yesterday.

"That's not a consensus bill...It's very much only the start of this discussion,'' said sponsor Jeremy Ring. He wants an earlier primary, while committee chairman Lee Constantine is not yet sold on that.
March 07, 2007

What a POS.

[Yossariant]

6. Your own Sierra Club letter lists sponsors of the bill. They are all GOP.

[Emit]

13. Ring introduced one bill in the Senate. The final bill that passed was the GOP bill

noted in the Sierra Club letter. There were at least three bills that got combined, IIRC.

[madfloridian]

14. Oh my, Emit...now you are being attacked like they do to me.

The Democrats were in on it with Marco Rubio all the way. The

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Mark Bubriski, the spokesman for the Democratic party, said this back in March 2006.

"Florida Democrats are all for it," Mark Bubriski, spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said at the time. (The time was March 2006)

And here is more about the Florida Democrats handled the amendments they were supposed to add to get the ok from the DNC. If they had TRIED to get the amendments through...they would have had their delegates.

1Florida Democratic Legislators sponsored the bill to move the primary to January 29th;

Jeremy Ring introduces primary bill

2.Florida House Democratic Legislators voted in committee three times for the bill to move the primary to January 29;

3.All but one Florida House Democratic Legislator vote on the floor to move the primary to January 29; and,

The one conscientious NO vote

4.Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after receiving a call from DNC Chair asking for help in opposing setting the primary date before February 5, “I don’t represent Howard Dean.”

5.Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5th, that the only reason he offer it was “to show that there was an attempt to state within the Democratic Party rules.” The amendment failed on a voice vote with no debate being offered.

6.Florida Senate Democratic Legislators voted in committee to move the primary to January;

7.Florida Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller stated on the Senate floor that he was offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5 only because he was threatened by DNC Chair Howard Dean. Sen. Geller than mocked his own amendment which failed on a voice vote without any debate.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

That bill as the Sierra Club says made changes in 52 statutes...and most of us don't have a clue what was changed over all.

This 77 page bill became a legislative train for various other pieces of legislation, most of which were never discussed and had not been filed as separate bills. The final bill looks very little like the original HB 537 which passed the House floor on March 21 by a vote of 115-1. The bill now makes changes in 52 Florida Statutes, ranging across 13 different chapters of Florida law. We respectfully argue this is not a good way to write election law in Florida. And while we do support the change to paper ballots which was fully debated and discussed in committee, we believe the other changes included in this bill deserve to be reviewed by a blue ribbon panel that will take a more comprehensive and thorough approach.

The vote was 115 to 1....they were not victims. They were complicit.

Hillary's supporters are trying to discredit me, and they will do the same to you. Hang in there.

IF she wins the nomination with Florida's votes, hubby and I will leave the party and become independents. It was be a very bitter victory.

[Emit]

31. I see that, madfloridian

:hi:

:hug:

[nomorewhopper]

18. Ring should lose his job

[Emit]

24. Ring: “I hear that a lot, that I was duped by the Republicans. No one duped me.”

“If you turn on the left wing liberal radio down in Broward, I am public enemy number one,” said Ring, who actually campaigned in 2006 on the need for an early primary and makes no apologies for his leading the effort. “I hear that a lot, that I was duped by the Republicans. No one duped me.” http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/09/28/it-was-a-democrat-not-republicans-who-moved-floridas-primary-date/

[madfloridian]

26. No one duped any of them. Thanks for the thread.

:hi:

[Cha]

30. Do dino assholes ever have

regrets?

[kentuck]

34. It appears there may have been a small conspiracy behind the FL election?

... Sen. Jeremy Ring, D-Margate, said that even without Democratic delegates — and only half the GOP delegates — at stake, "it's going to mean everything" for a frontrunner going into the coast-to-coast primaries and caucuses a week after Florida.

"I'm confident we're going to know the nominees after Feb. 5, and a lot of that will have to do with what happens in Florida," said Ring. "The reason I pushed the bill as hard as I did is, it's imperative that candidates start talking about issues important to Florida, which has happened. Getting a national 'cat fund' will be stronger than getting 210 convention delegates."

Creation of a national catastrophe fund to help states with massive hurricanes or killer earthquakes was not mentioned much in the first four states with primaries and caucuses. But Crist asked all visiting Republicans about it.

===========================

"I'm confident we're going to know the nominees after Feb. 5, and a lot of that will have to do with what happens in Florida,"

Oh, really?

[Tatiana]

35. Good find! What, do we have another clairvoyant?

Why was Ring so confident? Remember when Diebold's O'Dell last fall penned a letter pledging his commitment "to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President."

Very suspicious. The shenanigans going on in Florida really need to be investigated.

[Maribelle]

38. lol The details of The Small Conspiracy can be found detailed in the following book :

http://www.amazon.com/100-Innovative-Ideas-Floridas-Future/dp/1596985119


PS. You should take what you read in the OP with a grain of salt, and the same is true of subsequent posts supporting the OP's pomp.

[madfloridian]

39. That sounds like an attack on the OP. Is it?

You say take what she says with a grain of salt. You talk about her pomp. You have said far worse to me.

[Emit]

41. My OP consists of statements made by Ring in the context of the periods

surrounding the various bills' development and the message the endorser, Ring, presented at the time and as a result. It consists of statements made by Ring at various stages. It is not disengenous.

[madfloridian]

42. I linked to your post in my thread....

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

And I said it was getting pretty deep with stuff people were tossing out that was not sticking...that we needed our wading boots to get through the "stuff"

What Jeremy said and what Florida did will affect the whole country. Their arrogance was amazing.

[madfloridian]

43. During the 04 primary, this would have been considered off limits, Maribelle

It is permitted now obviously. Trying to discredit people here is just fine now it appears.