The solution for MI and FL is easy and just

[grantcart]

Now that we are down to two candidates each candidate gets half of the delegations.

Everyone gets representation but the two states that tried to hijack the system get no voice in determining the outcome, a fitting and just punishment.

Is this just too obvious or are they waiting for something before announcing it?

[Billy Burnett]

1. But BOTH candidates agreed to disenfranchise FL and MI voters.

So be it.

[grantcart]

4. It will only hurt the democrats in the general election. My solution heals

that problem, everyone saves face and the process is maintained.

[Billy Burnett]

6. Hold on. It was the agreement by the 2 candidates.

Let the voters get a taste of what its like to support candidates that agree to disenfranchise them.

[WilyWondr]

28. No it was not an agreement between the 2 candidates

It was the rules agreed to by the 2 candidates, but they didn't make those rules. It was the FL and MI legislature that changed the dates which caused the delegates to not be seated. The legislatures are the representatives of the people in those states. If people had complained to them last year when the date of the primary was changed maybe something could have been changed.

It is too late to change anything about the rules now. Get over it.

[Billy Burnett]

34. They were repug legislatures that moved the dates.

It was the Dem party and, most importantly, the two remaining candidates who agreed to disenfranchise MI and FL voters.

It is too late to change the rules, agreed. Most any 'solution' would only be a partial one.

But some are suggesting that the Dem party do just that. Violate their own rules. The rules the two candidates agreed to.

[WilyWondr]

40. Wow. Are you serious?

Because it passed the FL legislature 118-0 and it passed the FL senate 37-2.


So, are you saying that there are only 2 members of the legislature that are Democrats?

OH YEAH, the 2 senators that voted against it in the FL senate were republicans.



Please please please try to spin this some more.

[Honeycombe8]

45. Nope. Dem. Senator Bill Nelson sued the Dem. Party over it. He lost. Case closed. nt

[truedelphi]

36. My head spins whenever I consider the MI FL thing

Right now I tend to agree with you.

The states decide on how to conduct elections. And in the PRimaries, The DNC gets the oversight role.

The Democratic party in the two states was confounded by the fact that the Repugs were going to move up the date. And the DNC wouldn't accept it.

Now we have a rift. Rifts are bad. best to split the vote in half I think

[Billy Burnett]

38. Mine too, but splitting the vote in half might be worse.

It reenforces the message that MI and FL voters don't count ... let's just fabricate a number for them.

We knew what we were working with prior to primary season when the (now) remaining candidates agreed to disenfranchise MI and FL, but for the party to reenforce this disenfranchisement is shameful. Ruinous.

[truedelphi]

39. There are usually no good or easy solutions

For implementing a half baked policy

[lisa58]

2. it's a great idea...

...keep it neutral

[Billy Burnett]

3. Then don't count them at all.

Splitting them is worse than a Diebold operation. A fabricated count.

[grantcart]

8. Is exactly the type of compromises that conventions have done

thru the year in settling disputes about state's delegations. This has the same effect that yours does but helps heals the wounds and is better for the general election. Remember the general election? Yeah that thing that actually counts.

[Billy Burnett]

12. Really? I'm looking for representation.

MI and FL voters have been disenfranchised by their own party and these two candidates who both agreed to do just that.

[Vinca]

5. If they do anything with the delegates, that would probably make

the most sense short of a revote. I don't know how they make it up to John Edwards, though. He would've had a good chance in Michigan and that might have changed the whole path of the campaign.

[Billy Burnett]

16. Why conjure up a delegate count? Its just too repug a move for me.

Fake elections. Fake counts. :puke:

Don't count them at all. The party and the two candidates agreed to disenfranchise MI and FL voters.

The consequences will motivate reform of this ridiculous system. Or it will destroy Democratic support for democracy and representation.

[Vinca]

23. I agree.

Now, off to change my avatar. I think I'm being mistaken for a Hillary supporter despite the signature line.

[IDemo]

7. Isn't a mathematical divide essentially meaningless?

Just saying the representation exists wouldn't necessarily make it true if it reflects neither the vote that occurred nor the one that might occur if a re-caucus or primary were to happen.

[Billy Burnett]

9. Right. Its a complete Diebold-like fabricated vote count.

[grantcart]

10. It allows the states to participate in the convention on the platform etc

It makes their power meaningless and that is what makes it just. States will not have an incentive to buck the rules in the future.
It will take away the animosity that would be harmful in the general election.

[Billy Burnett]

21. States might have moved dates, but the candidates in question agreed to the party rules.

Dem party and the candidates didn't have to set these rules and agree to them. But they did.

Its created a fuck up, but splitting the delegates in some fabricated conjuring process is as anti democratic as it gets.

[grantcart]

24. The candidates did not agree with it they pledged not to participate in any

campaigning there. In Michigan all but one of the candidates had their names removed from the ballot.

I would be interested in a contrarian view if you have a link. Link please?

[Billy Burnett]

32. Huh?

Last I checked ...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pledge

pledge
1. a solemn promise or agreement to do or refrain from doing something

No contrarian view on the subject of who's names were on the ballot - in violation of their solemn promise to disenfranchise MI and FL voters.

[grantcart]

33. your sentence in the post reads as if the candidates agreed to moving the date.

quote
States might have moved dates, but the candidates in question agreed to it.
unquote


but thanks for the kicks

[Billy Burnett]

35. Thanks. Fixed it.

:hi:

[grantcart]

42. ah yes makes sense now

[rocktivity]

11. Works for me

It recognizes the voters, seats the delegates, punishes MI and Florida for breaking rules they agreed to obey, and preserves the DNC's authority. Everybody wins and justice is served.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Billy Burnett]

19. How does it 'recognize' voters?

If the delegate count is completely conjured, how is that voter recognition? Its more like fraud.

[rocktivity]

44. It recognizes that the voters voted,

and thus "created" the delegates.

It's not the ideal solution--what would be?--but what's needed here is the fairest solution possible all around.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Tarc]

13. Dumb and pointless symbolic gestures mean nothing

Seat 1/2 the delegates, as the GOP did.

[DJ13]

14. Doesnt counting them now just increase the total number needed to win the nomination?

That doesnt help anyone, not even the two states unless theres a completely new vote.

[grantcart]

17. yes but a revote would do exactly the opposit - give the states that

broke the rules the determining voice in the election. It also puts the candidates in an untenable position any candidate who is percieved as staying within the rules and enforcing party discipline will likely lose the election.

[Billy Burnett]

25. The states might have moved dates, but it was the party that ruled on them.

If they hold a revote, then WHAT THE FUCK was the damned rule for? They can hold the election when they want, apparently.

This is the election that the party agreed to. The candidates agreed to disenfranchise the voters of MI and FL. And the voters for both of the remaining candidates gave their approval to candidates that have made this well known agreement.

[WillyT]

41. Ya Know GC, You Just Sold Me On It !!!

Any do-over would put the states that violated the rules, in the cat-bird seat. THEY would decide the entire nomination.

And I don't want the entire 2008 Primary decided by Florida and Michigan. They screwed their own voters, not us.

ALL the other states abided by the rules.

Your solution seems to be the fairest to date!

I'm in.

:yourock:

[cooolandrew]

15. Yeah I can go for that, if they can't re-run it offcially split if fair.

[Skip Intro]

18. The number of delegates maybe should be cut by half, then distributed according to the vote.

Take however many Hillary would have won, and however many Obama would have won, then cut those nubmers in half, and seat them.

Splitting the delegate count 50/50 does not represnt the voices of the voters, and would do nothing to heal the rift between Democrats in those states and the party as a whole.

[grantcart]

20. there was no election to split in half

[Billy Burnett]

22. Agreed to by the candidates, and endorsed by every other primary voter for either of them.

The whole deal is just shameful. And a sham.

[Skip Intro]

29. There was an election, the DNC just may tell those voters they don't matter.

eh, they'll probably forget all about by the time we need them in November...

:eyes:

[WilyWondr]

26. The solution was decided upon last year

No more solutions are necessary.

[juajen]

27. You must be an Obama supporter.

Clinton won both states. Any solution that does not reflect that, is no solution.

[WilyWondr]

30. The solution was decided before the primary took place

So it has nothing to do with who won, because when the solution was decided upon no winner had been determined.

Understand?

[grantcart]

31. Since there was no campaign there was no winner and as of today

no delegates. I am an Obama supporter and that is why I don't want states that tried to break the rules be rewarded with more power than other states.

If you think that Hillary can lose the popular vote be behind in the delegate count and win the nomination with changing the rules on Michigan and Florida you are not in touch with reality. Hillary will have to win the nomination in states where everyone's name was on the ballot and everyone agreed to campaign.

[Pathwalker]

37. Don't bother. It's too late now.

Just MOVE ON.

[grantcart]

43. Its not too late for the general election

[Pryderi]

46. Have the elected Democratic officials of each state...

Here's my idea to get Michigan and Florida delegates seated.

Have the elected Democratic officials of each state, (US congressional reps, US senators, AND state legislators) vote for either Hillary or Obama, and divide the delegates accordingly.