What can we, in Michigan and Florida, do

[caty]

to get another primary? When we went to vote in Michigan last month, they told us that this vote would not count and that there would be another primary in the spring. Now I am hearing that that primary was "it" and that "it" won't count. What the f*ck! Michigan and Florida are states just like any other state. We deserve the right to have a proper primary that will actually mean something.

[mmonk]

1. They (Democratic party) should pay to give you another chance or

let those who voted keep their votes and those that didn't be allowed to cast theirs.

[stellanoir]

2. The only fair thing to do is a redo.

Who will pay for it is the question. Maybe consider bugging your Secretary of State.

It is totally unfair, no question.

But Hillary is pulling a bait and switch for sure.

[Yael]

3. You can't have a second primary -- as that is against party rules

You CAN caucus though.

I know its expensive, but me and many more like me would come to your states and volunteer to help to keep costs down for the state party.

Call them and demand that they let you have a fair election!!

[Ivote]

7. Can't do that either according to the rules

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/15/17261/4418
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4610003
LOng but worth it in order to understand what we are up against

[Yael]

11. The DNC has offered the caucus option to both states

as well as funding.

Offer remains on the table (although Florida currently has declined).

[smalll]

40. Oh yeah. Like ANYONE who's not already a confirmed and committed acolyte

to your hopped-up little crypto-caesarist Axelrod puppet would EVER agree to another goddamn CAUCUS that you guys can swamp with non-Democrat Repukes, "indies," college kids and latte liberals who can just let their office know they "won't be in today" on their Blackberries, and no-one gets fired and no-one's pay gets docked.

Another caucus. Riiiight.

[boston bean]

46. thanks, my feelings exactly! nt

[GarbagemanLB]

48. Bitter much? I didn't know Idaho was a 'latte-liberal' state.

[DJ13]

4. The only thing you can really do is to pressure your state DNC to allow another primary

Dean has said he's willing to let both states hold caucuses in the next couple of months to seat all new delegates, but the two state Party's dont want that, they want to allow Hillary to seat uncontested delegates.

You need to tell your state Party officials to either give in to Deans reasonable alternative, or be willing to give up seating any delegates at all.

[Birthmark]

5. We Floridians had a proper primary.

The DNC has chosen to ignore that.

[Yael]

14. How many renters didn't bother to vote because of the tax amendment

that didn't concern them?

[Birthmark]

26. None...

...that can be shown to be significant in the Dem Primary, unless you have actual evidence otherwise, of course.

[Yael]

30. So you seek to disenfranchise those who didn't have a stake in the tax issue?

You know -- those citizens of the US who were told their vote didn't count. Them.

[Birthmark]

31. What wonderfully bizarre logic you display!

I can only assume that you have absolutely no evidence that that happened on any scale that was even close to statistically significant. That doesn't surprise me since Dem turnout in FL was in excess of 50%. Not bad for a primary.

[Kittycat]

42. Actually - you are wrong.

I've listened to caller after caller on the progressive stations complain that they were told their vote wouldn't count. So many didn't want to take the time off work (lose pay), find sitters for their children - or even bother showing up. Under the told assumption that their vote didn't matter any way.

You can't seat those delegates as it stands. They have to be allowed to have a new caucus or primary - either of which I would fully support.

[Birthmark]

47. I can't account for what you hear or don't hear

That's assertion, not evidence. Sorry. If you happen across some real, verifiable evidence don't hesitate to post it.

[stahbrett]

16. Wrong - the state leaders moved up the date after being warned not to

The DNC is in charge of party rules. FL and MI officials stupidly decided to violate those rules in the hopes of playing a big role in the selection of the nominee. If they (FL and MI officials) get their hopes fulfilled, then we'll have a bunch of states move up, and we'll start having primaries 2 years early before we know it. There needs to be some rules - I'm not sold on always having Iowa and New Hampshire go first, but that doesn't mean that FL and MI should be able to try to game the system on their own.

For those that play online poker, most sites have fake money tables and real money tables. When people play on the fake money tables, they know that the results don't matter - so they don't act in the same way that they do on the real money tables. People go "all in", forfeit their fake money, make stupid decisions, etc. How would you feel if you're on a fake money table, and after playing for awhile, the online poker site informed you that they decided to actually count the results - and you will now lose real money.

[demo dutch]

22. Get your facts straight.. FL voters got duped by Rep Legislature & Rep Governor

and Dem leaders
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/15/17261/4418

[sandnsea]

37. A Dem introduced the legislation, Dems voted for it n/t

[Birthmark]

28. Blah, blah, blah

All of that is nonsense designed to justify the disenfranchisement of FL Dems. It will be remembered in November.

[shrdlu]

6. Nothing to do but curse the leaders of your state party...

They chose to ignore party rules.

No excuses. No do-overs.

[fadedrose]

10. Been there, done that (nt)

[demo dutch]

23. Yeah well, I didn't fucking vote for those clowns and I'm tired of not being counted!

At least the Repugs treated the FL voter right and gave them a chance to be counted!

[dysfunctional press]

39. so vote republican in november, if you think they'll treat you better.

see if anyone cares.

[demo dutch]

51. Oh they'll care when they lose Florida!

[ExtraGriz]

8. i wouldnt wait for those in power to settle this..

organize, march, yell, scream....make yourself be heard. anyone else speaking up for florida and michigan will be considered bias.

[wileedog]

9. Kick out

the dumb shits who screwed your state over by playing games.

The DNC cannot afford to seat your votes or have a do-over, and it has nothing to do with this election. If they do, then 4 years from now every state will attempt to move their primary to January and know that they will still get a vote at some point anyway.

Sorry, your team gambled and lost.

[UALRBSofL]

12. I live in florida and there is nothing we can do

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[MichiganVote]

13. Who told you your vote would not count? Who told you there would be a 2nd primary?

Who told you that you did not have a "proper" primary?

[shaniqua6392]

20. Really...We heard it "probably" would count.

I have never once heard there would be a second primary. We were told to get out and vote and that our choices were the names on the ballot. If our candidates name was not on the ballot, we were told to vote uncommitted. If we wanted Obama or Edwards we had to vote uncommitted and they would use those votes at the convention if needed. We had a proper primary already. It is only Obama supporters that seem to get all excited about a "do over" in the form of a caucus. Bullcrap. They just don't like the fact that Clinton won both of these states. Why didn't they just cancel the Democratic Primary if there was no chance we would be counted? Anyone with an ounce of common sense would be able to figure out that our delegates would eventually be seated.

[MichiganVote]

24. Neither have I. I think this is a bullshit OP.

[caty]

29. The people

where we voted told us that this was a trial primary and that it wouldn't count. They said there would be another one in the spring. When they told us this, my husband and I looked at each other, shrugged, and said, "Well, we'll come back and vote again". Why should "the people" of Michigan and Florida be ignored, just because those running these elections didn't follow the rules.

I'm tired of being dragged kicking and screaming into situations I don't want to be in by my government. I was dragged into a war I didn't want by a president I shouldn't have---now I'm being dragged into this mess over the primary.

[MichiganVote]

43. What you were told was illegal and should be reported to your local county board of elections.

There is no such thing as a trial primary.

[LisaL]

53. Really?

And it never occurred to you that it made no sense for there to be a first primary and a second primary?
Why wasn't the primary canceled if there was gonna be another one in the spring?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

15. FL and MI arent the only primaries that don't count!

What about North Carolina, whose primary is in May?

No one cares that ours NEVER counts, and we FOLLOWED the rules.

Those that broke the rules pay the consequences.

[UALRBSofL]

18. If your primary is in May why bother

What's the point?

[demo dutch]

19. FL voters got duped by the Dem leaders/ Rep Legislature & Rep Governor

Isn't it supposed to be about the voter in stead of the fucking rules!

[Johnny__Motown]

17. We all knew for months that our delegates would not be seated, I never heard anything about another

primary in the spring though.


I live in Detroit and watch Flashpoint almost every week. (local show kinda like a minor league Meet The Press)

It was discussed countless times and was agreed to months ahead of time. The idea was that Hillary was inevitable so why should we worry about our delegates? Let's move things up now so that the next time around we will be more relevant.


I don't ever remember hearing anything about another primary being held later.


FYI I did turn out and voted Uncommitted, just to stick it to Hillary that tiny little bit.

[Yossariant]

21. John Conyers was all over your media telling people to vote in the primary.

You voted in the primary.

Despite already voting in one primary, you now want another primary.

All the states would be having endless do-overs if Michigan or Florida got do-overs.

[Johnny__Motown]

25. Yes he was all over it telling us to vote Uncommitted, nice choice

what we want is one of two things


Either don't seat our delegates because that was what we all understood would happen when we voted.

Or give us another primary/caucus that we all know will count.


Telling us it won't count (and removing names from the ballot) and then switching it up so that it does count is pure BULL SHIT.


Talk about manipulating people for political gain. this is un freaking believable.

[Yossariant]

33. The candidates who wanted their names off the ballot were pandering to the early states.

"Democratic candidates John Edwards, Barack Obama, Bill Richardson and Joe Biden have withdrawn their names from the ballot to satisfy Iowa and New Hampshire, which were unhappy Michigan was challenging their leadoff status on the primary calendar."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22054151

No do-overs on the basis that a candidate was too calculating or too stupid to leave his name on the ballot.

[Johnny__Motown]

38. Following rules = pandering ? that is simply an opinion not a fact

Give me a break, no do-overs is fine with me, just don't seat the delegates just like we figured would happen all along.

[MonkeyFunk]

50. There was no rule

or pledge to remove their names from the ballot.

[Tarc]

27. Perhaps at this point, they should just award 1/2 delegates

and call it good, as nothing else is going to fly beyond that.

[Birthmark]

32. I think that that is an acceptable solution. nt

[johnnydrama]

34. award 1/2 the delegates from the primary

and caucus for the other 1/2

[Political Heretic]

35. I don't understand why some are against having new votes that count in MI and FL?

It is the best solution for an all around bad situation.

[Johnny__Motown]

41. Because Hillary will have her ass handed to her on a platter. they don't support that

[LisaL]

52. FL rules only allow for one primary, which they had.

WTF should there be another one?
All three names were on the ballot.
And never mind the revote will cost millions.

[dysfunctional press]

36. you had your chance- your leaders decided to break the rules...

go cry to them.

[suston96]

44. The primaries are valid. Michigan's uncommitted will vote for whomever they want....

...the rest go as elected.

What should voters in Michigan and Florida do? That's easy. If the Democratic party didn't want your votes in the primary then don't give them your vote in the general.

[TexasObserver]

45. What you do is find out who YOUR congressperson and DNC persons are.

You go to their office, with friends, if possible, and you say "I am a Democrat, and if you do not get us a caucus set up before June that makes the DNC happy, you can count on me supporting whoever runs against you in the next election."

You have to raise holy hell with your Democratic elected officials, and don't be subtle. Tell them "If I don't get a vote for the party's nomination process, you can forget my vote in November!"

You have to make them feel the heat. Stir that up with everyone you know. They have the ability to get this fixed, and it's pride that is stopping it.

[UALRBSofL]

49. Trust me, I have called everybody

And the only answers I get are "well, we will have to wait and see what happens", or "there are a lot more states primary to go and hopefully florida wont be a factor". From a personal standpoint, they miss the point when I called because I tell them I want my vote to count. I suppose they aren't concerned with my complaining since I have no political power and I'm only one voice. Such is the way politics work in Florida.