BBV Why the Touchscreen Makers want Nader to run

[Florida_Geek]

If you are stealing votes, IMHO it is easier to hide them in two buckets than one. If in Nov Bush is trailing Kerry in the Polls, it would look very strange for him to have a blow out come the election.

But, if in Ohio, Florida, California and other places, Nader gets on the ballot, Kerry votes could not only be changed to Bush votes but also some to Nader. If at the end of the vote, Nader got as many, maybe more votes as he got in 2000 it would not look like the election was rigged when in fact it was. Remember California, as a state Nader got over 400,000 votes in 2000. Bush could carry California with Nader getting 500,000 votes and around 600,000 from Kerry. With no other changes in states, if Bush carried CA and FL he would end up with 333 electoral votes to 205. Bush would have his second term popular mandate.

I would not be surprised that the Touchscreen makers donate to Nader, in fact I would bet on it.

[On the Road]

1. Hadn't Thought of That, But Yes

What was the county in Florida that had an astronomical number of votes for small-party candidates? The same thing could happen this year.

I am not one who thinks the touchscreen machines were designed to steal votes. Or that the 2002 elections as a whole were stolen. But I DO know that every method of voting has been tampered with. And has to be verifiable after the fact.

[Florida_Geek]

2. Buchanan got over half his votes in Palm Beach

County, which is heavy Jewish.

[On the Road]

8. Well, That Was a Different Kind of Screw-Up

Shows the dangers of any system. The good news is that I don't think anyone will be using butterfly ballots anytime soon.

[hackwriter]

3. They don't have to donate

All they have to do is get him on the ballot, then rig the software to dump every "n"th Kerry vote into one of two buckets -- Bush or Nader.

[Florida_Geek]

6. Donate to help get him on the polls

Jeb would sign him up without signatures but that is Jeb.

[genius]

4. We've got to accept the reality that if VCIAA doesn't pass, Bush has won

We CANNOT win unless VCIAA passes. This matters more than polls or votes. If your Congressman or Senator hasn't signed on to it, then he/she is guaranteeing a Bush landslide.

[nodictators]

5. It's not just the touchscreens

Any voting system can be rigged to siphon votes from one candidate to others. As noted by Bev Harris, the most efficient way of stealing votes is to break into the database and change the counts. Most election officials won't bother to go through hundreds of thousands ballots to check.

Bad News! I've found a state where a leading Democratic (non-presidential) candidate lost more than 200,000 votes in a recent primary. Incredibly, 49.7% of the candidate s's poll-cast ballots were uncounted.

The vote loss didn't cause the candidate to lose the race. However, this may have been a trial run for November fraud.

Of course, the corporate media has censored the story. The election officials claimed their election ran smoothly. The official results show the truth.

I'll post the full story sometime next week.

[bobbieinok]

10. want to know - will be watching and waiting for this info

...

[WitchWay]

7. Corporate donations?

I would not be surprised that the Touchscreen makers donate to Nader, in fact I would bet on it.

Don't bet on it. Unlike the Republicans and Democrats, Nader does not take any corporate contributions.

The other reason why this is a ridiculous accusation is that Nader is OPPOSED To paperless electronic voting: (I must refute this absurd accusation, so I am using Nader's campaign site. That is not meant as an endorsement, so I apologize if using his website to make this point offends anyone.)

http://www.votenader.org/
March 2, 2004
On "Super Tuesday:" Ralph Nader on Paperless Electronic Voting
A bedrock of democracy is making sure that every vote counts. The counting of votes needs to be transparent so people can trust that their vote is counted as they cast it. Paperless electronic voting on touch screen machines does not provide confidence to ensure votes are counted the way voters intend. The software on which votes are counted is protected as a corporate trade secret and the software is so complex that if malicious code was embedded no analysis could discover it. Further, because there is no voter verified paper record, it is not possible to audit the electronic vote for accuracy, nor is it possible to conduct an independent recount...

There is more in this press release if you care to follow the link above and go to the date March 2.

[Florida_Geek]

9. OK, the Touchscreen people will pay people

to collect signatures to get on the ballot in States THEY want him on the ballot.

This thread is about Touchscreen Fraud.

[WitchWay]

14. By "Touchscreen People" do you mean

black-box apologist Doug Lewis, who runs The Election Center, the outfit that gives the official stamp of verification to all blackbox voting systems?

Oh, but look at Lewis' resume:

http://www.electionline.org/index.jsp?page=Doug%20Lewis

Ran political campaigns for "political parties"? Kind of vague, huh? Wonder what political parties ...

Oh, here's a more detailed resume:

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/reform/nss_bio-lewis.htm

Doug Lewis, as it turns out, was the manager of political affairs for Democrat John Connaly -- that's right, Connaly the Democrat Texas Governor who was shot along with JFK.

Your theory is based on your blind assumption that Dems are honest, and anyone else is either sinister or a dupe. Your theory would involve thousands of Repub operatives contributing to the Nader campaign. How would they recruit those operatives, and how would they launder the money out to them? If only a few operatives ratted, the jig would be up. All that risk and trouble and expense for what? To "hide" the fraud by changing Kerry 49, Bush 46, Nader 5 in Ohio to Kerry 45, Bush 46, Nader 9? How is nearly doubling Nader's vote less conspicuous than Kerry 47, Bush 48, Nader 5?

Doug Lewis, a Dem Party insider for decades, thinks voter fraud is something to laugh about. He said in a panel discussion on Dec. 14, 2000: "The perfect election is when none of the imperfections go public."
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2000/12.14/04-chads.html

I think the Dems and Repubs are both callous and flippant when it comes to the integrity of our voting system because they have both gotten used to playing so many dirty tricks to rig elections in "legal" ways, like the Commission on Presidential Debates, they act like it's all part of the game when the dirty tricks drift over into the clearly illegal arena too.

Remember, the Daley Dem party machine stole the 1960 election for JFK by using dead people's votes in Cook County, IL to squeak out a victory over Nixon. In the end, though, the 1960 and 2000 elections were most likely decided in back room deals between the two major parties. Gore knew he won in 2000, and he had the evidence. If he had challenged on the basis of the racist vote-scrub like Jesse Jackson was demanding, he would have won. It almost seemed like the whole thing was a gentleman's agreement.

But Doug Lewis might have learned something from Connally himself about, shall we say, helping voters make the right choice:
"A member of the Democratic Party, Connally continued to help run the political campaigns of Lyndon B. Johnson. In 1948 he was accused of being involved in a voting scandal when 200 votes for Johnson arrived late from Jim Wells County. It was these votes that gave Johnson an eighty-seven-vote victory."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKconnally.htm

After being Dem governor of Texas and LBJ's longtime campaign manager and political advisor, Connally defected from LBJ and became a foreign policy advisor to Nixon in the late sixties -- becoming a key transitional figure from the LBJ to Nixon administrations during the most intense phase of public uproar over the Vietnam War. Nixon ran promising to correct LBJ's bungling of the war effort and bring peace. Hmmm ... sound familiar? Rand Beers recently defected from the Bush Administration to become Kerry's top foreign policy advisor.
http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/governors/modern/connally-p13.html

Connaly was very close to LBJ and loyal to him even after switching to Nixon.
http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/governors/modern/connally-p13.html

The Dems and Repubs have been way too cozy for decades, and now we hear all this talk about a Kerry/McCain ticket.

And that is why it's good Nader is running, because both parties keep morphing into each other whenever it's convenient for the corporate interests that fund them both to switch masks and throw off the public's trail.

Perhaps it's time we stopped being blinded by party affiliations and start looking at vested financial, corporate, family and associational interests. For example, another detail worth noting in the non-whitewashed version of Doug Lewis' resume linked to above is that he worked in the eighties as a "petrochemical consultant". Drop the tinfoil hat and just FOLLOW THE OIL.

[jansu]

11. Time for calling in other countries to verify our Election? The UN?

Since we have two elections, 2000 & 2002, which have many irregularities, this might be the only way to make it fair....Maybe it is time for some of us to volunteer to sit outside the voting places and ask everyone who comes out, to put a chip (different colors for different Candidates) in a locked box, so that there is a semi-fair counting of the vote....a concerned citizens exit poll. Could this be done? I fear that we won't get the paper trail we need, before November. My other suggestion is, VOTE BY ABSENTEE BALLOT. No touchscreen involved, and if enough of us do it, they would not be able to call the election,until those are counted! Would mess up the media:evilgrin:

Come on DUer's, we can figure out a way to stop them, if we all put our minds to it! Come up with some ideas.....even crazy ones!

[John_H]

12. Absolutely spot on. Stealing votes for nader is much easier than stealing

for chimp. Judy Woodruf: "Oh, my what a SURPRISING finish for Nader. Boy, those voters sure were angry. President Bush had better be nice his second term."

[WitchWay]

15. Right on!

and I like the way that you have a photo Nader getting a pie slapped into his face. I can tell that you have a sense of graciousness and a deep respect for the democratic process.

It's not like mean-spiritedness and bullying tactics are causing people to abandon the Democratic party in droves, is it? After all,
isn't the promotion of physical assault the epitome of a true democracy? Who needs to worry about letting those stupid voters hear any real discourse or honest debate amongst the candidates, when people don't know whats best for themselves, anyways?

[mzmolly]

13. Interesting theory. I think your on to something...

:think: :tinfoilhat: :beer: