If Hillary is such a "fighter", then why is this primary fight so hard for her to wrap up?

[stevietheman]

If she hasn't whipped Obama, a junior Senator from her home state of Illinois, by now, she has no business running against a Republican nominee.

Obama has the momentum, and Hillary is about to fall seriously behind in delegate counts on Tuesday.

Obama is the one that is showing the true strength, the true resolve.

Obama is one with the FIGHT in him, and this can no longer be denied.

[jackson_dem]

1. Ask Dukakis or Kerry, who won a record FORTY SIX primaries

[stevietheman]

10. You make the argument against Hillary then...

as she, like Dukakis and Kerry, were the establishment candidates.

No more establishment candidates!

This time, the voters are giving a thumbs down to them, and that's why it's a tough fight for Hillary. And if she can't make headway in her own party and already have this nomination nailed down, she doesn't have anything to take on the GOP with.

[jackson_dem]

11. Dukakis and Kerry didn't fight and lost

The general is a different animal than the primaries and they are proof of that.

[angie_love]

14. Hillary is fighting Obama and still can't get a significant lead?

Does that bode well for her chances in the general if shes trying to destroy Obama but can't? Everything shes thrown at him hasn't stuck. Must be really frustrating for her. If she thinks the media is on Obama's side now, just wait till the GE if she wins the nom, it will be hard for her to win when the media LOVES McCain and hates her.

[jackson_dem]

19. She has the msm against her and is up against the $1 milion a day Obama machine

Did you look at the LA exit poll? She won voters who weren't influenced by Obama's ad barrage but lost badly among those who were swayed by it. Couple her financial disadvantage with the msm behind Obama and I believe she is the true underdog.

The msm always sides with the rethug in the general. They will do to Obama, if nominated, what they did to Gore and Kerry, two candidates they were favorable to during the primaries. Gore was actually crowned by the msm as they declared the race over after he won 51-49 in New Hampshire.

[angie_love]

23. Oh please do you really believe shes the underdog?

If Obama lost 5 contests in a row, don't you think he would be political roadkill by now? Its b/c shes the frontrunner that people still give her the benefit of the doubt and are waiting till Ohio/TX so she could have her little "comeback". Obama has/always will be the underdog when you're going against the Cliton machine.

[jackson_dem]

26. The Obama machine includes almost the entire msm and is raising $1 million a day

Look at who wins all the caucuses. I think Obama is 9-1 in then. The Obama machine> the Clinton machine.

[stevietheman]

27. Abject nonsense. Hillary gets as much press as Obama. Clearly. n/t

n/t

[jackson_dem]

29. She does

But her press is mostly negative. Obama gets the most positive press of any candidate who ran this time (even more than longtime media darling McCain!) and leads by more than 3:1 in newspaper endorsements.

[angie_love]

48. You only think its negative b/c you're biased.

What have you thought was so unfair? A few examples please? I don't see all this negative coverage you hillary supporters are always talking about.

[rodeodance]

30. It's the Quanity stupid!

[anigbrowl]

34. Oh really...

"She won voters who weren't influenced by Obama's ad barrage but lost badly among those who were swayed by it."

Candidate A lost among voters who were more impressed with Candidate B. Errrr.....so what? You seem to be saying that Hillary Clinton somehow deserved to win by default, and if only Obama hadn't run his damn campaign so well he'd be the nominee by now. Putting up lots of TV ads - well that's just terrible!

"The msm always sides with the rethug in the general."

To be honest, I think this says a bit more about your psychology as a media consumer than the MSM. Consider that Republicans always feel the media is hopelessly biased against them (apart from Fox, and sometimes even there). You seem to forget how well the media treated Bill Clinton when he was running. Although they reported all the scandal stories when he was running against George HW Bush, they preferred him heavily as a young energetic candidate. And as for 1996...well put it this way, I wound up feeling sorry for Bob Dole because they treated his candidacy as such a joke.

Gore did badly in 2000, as did Kerry in 2004, because he was a stiff speaker whose personality and charm didn't come across well on TV. Consider how when he reappeared a couple of years back with his climate slideshow what a completely different personality he presented - when he wasn't running for office but promoting a cause, he was suddenly relaxed and humorous, and the media have been eating him up ever since because he's enjoyable to watch.

Bush is an embarrassing hick, but he understands TV. He got it better than Gore did in 2000, and WAY better than Kerry in 2004 (plus he got a bounce from the whole national seurity thing, though many people bitterly regret giving it to him after the last 3 years). TV is not an intellectual medium, its one that emphasizes personal communication skills. One of the reasons that Obama is doing well in this election cycle is that he's just more comfortable in front of the camera than either Hillary Clinton or Edwards has been.

[aquarius dawning]

31. A strong fighter can take a beating as well as give one. Hillary has shown this kind of resiliency

over the years and throughout this election. She has been beat up by the left and by the right yet she's still standing quite strong. Tell me that isn't the mark of a strong fighter.

[FrenchieCat]

32. Sounds like someone too busy taking a beating to get any work done

which may be why after 8 years in the Senate, her accomplishments are few....and her mistakes are glaring.

[aquarius dawning]

36. Keep on saying it enough and it still won't be true.

And I'll bet if Obama is elected, the Republicans will be so overwhelmed with the timbre of his voice that all of this divisiveness and hatred in America will just disappear. And considering that roughly half the Democratic Party doesn't support his Presidency, I have to wonder how well he'll fare when he gets into a real fight against the people who don't pull punches.

[FrenchieCat]

40. Republicans didn't die with Colin Powell and Condolizaa Rice were named at

very high posts. In fact, they were talking about running both for Prez at one time or another.

And I will correct you; The Clintons don't pull no punches. You are underestimating them, while I and Obama are not. The Clintons were reigned in after the damage was nearly done by the media and their party.

I don't know if Republicans are as racist as you suggest.....they appear to judge by the content of one's conservative soul more so than by the color of one's skin. I'm starting to believe that Democrats may be the ones with a serious problem. IN particular many who post here at DU, who call themselves Progressives.

[aquarius dawning]

44. Tokens of appreciation from the Bush administration

I'm starting to believe that Democrats may be the ones with a serious problem
That's called the race card. I hope you have more cards to play than that in a general elction.

IN particular many who post here at DU, who call themselves Progressives.
I'm a white male supporting the first potential woman President because I believe the multitudes of oppressed and tyranized women throughout the world need a champion far more than any other demographic group. Is that progressive enough for you?

[anigbrowl]

35. True...but you can say the same about Bush, to be honest. n/t

[aquarius dawning]

37. Bush is hardly standing strong with less than 30% popularity.

I don't think you can say the same thing...to be honest.

[girl gone mad]

41. Obama's not establishment?

Since when?

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. The primary was designed to be an endurance test, but after

taking NY & CA, HRC has earned her place at the convention.

[WillyT]

6. Um... I Think The Other 48 States Might Disagree... Just A Hunch

:shrug:

[aquarius dawning]

38. She has roughly 50% of the popular vote still as far as I know

That should mean something to someone or someones.

[XemaSab]

12. I am in California, and I have appointed myself the official bullshit-caller

Hillary's strongholds in California were in the Central Valley and Southern California. The more conservative the area, the better she did.

She lost San Francisco and Sacramento, among others.

[Big Blue Marble]

20. That is a self-serving statement.

NY and CA are the only states in this country where people live?
Do the other 48 get a say?

But then if you mean she will have earned the right to endorse and throw all her support to Obama
in Denver, I agree with you and look forward to the moment.

[Fredda Weinberg]

47. How charming ... be careful what you wish for n/t

[WillyT]

3. Don't You Know We Have The Rest Of The Democrats In A Hypnotic Trance ???

C'mon... where ya been man?

:rofl:

[MagsDem]

4. Because the media is telling you to vote for Obama

And continuing their 15 year tirade against all things Clinton.

This has been another edition of simple answers to really, really, really simple questions.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Yes, if it wasn't for the media, I would have supported Hillary from the get-go.

The media forced her to vote for the Iraq war, of course, and then made her completely incapable of stringing together a coherent acknowledgment that the vote was a mistake, like, by saying, "I was wrong".

[MagsDem]

13. As opposed to Obama who lies about his votes by

ommitting any mention that he voted against his own party's efforts to end the war when he was elected to the senate. And only decided to vote with his party to end the war once he decided to be the "anti-war" candidate.

You realize that he voted right with Joe Dino Lieberman and called him his mentor until he decided to run for president, right? Oh wait, how would you? The media didn't tell you that.

He's a media creation, and you are being had. Big time.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Robble Robble Robble.

:eyes:

[aquarius dawning]

45. Obama: "voted right with Joe Dino Lieberman and called him his mentor"

I guess I didn't realize that although it doesn't surprise me.

[JVS]

8. So, how does having a media hell-bent on destroying her make her a better candidate?

Couldn't you have started with a candidate with less baggage?

[MagsDem]

15. I did. I don't let the media choose my candidate

That is why I was an Edwards supporter. If you Obama folks really wanted the most progressive candidate you would have supported him. Instead you let the media pick your candidate for you. THE most empty suit in the race, and frankly a joke of a candidate that will get us creamed in the GE. It's Kerry re duex, only worse.

[JVS]

17. His actions as a legislator didn't match his populist rhetoric

And like Clinton he voted for IWR, although he had the decency to apologize. He was my second choice.

[MagsDem]

22. Obama was for, no against, no for defunding the war

How is that better? Please. Obama is the biggest bullshitter we have seen in this party in our lifetime. You've been had.

[JVS]

24. Wow, that's a very original post you have. Maybe you should make it an OP so everyone knows.

[WillyT]

9. So She Is Gonna Take On The Republicans AND The Media ???

And you think she's gonna win under those circumstances?

:shrug:

[MagsDem]

16. Yes, I do and more importantly, I know he cannot win the GE

Tell me which southern state he can win? Or name me a dem that has won the presidency without a single southern state?

[FrenchieCat]

28. Why? Because he's Black?

That is fucking stupid, and you should know this.

If condoleeza can be our Secretary of State....as was Colin Powell, don't think that folks are as racist at heart as you evidently are.

Obama is being judged by the content of his character.....No matter how hard the Clintons tried to make it be otherwise. The folks that vote Hillary are those too busy struggling to survive and are opting for safe, because they have no time to attempt to really understand that she is the corporate candidate who helped NAFTA pass and made their lives hell. It's like the Bush voters, voting against their own best interest.

[TexasObserver]

5. She is a fighter, but not a leader.

That's the problem. When you're a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.

[MagsDem]

18. Obama is a leader? What evidence is there of that?

He was a frigging state senator 3 yrs ago, and the only candidate he has ever faced in a state wide election is Alan right wing nut job Keyes, who couldn't even get his own kids to vote for him.

A leader doesn't duck out on important votes, vote present rather than take a stand when it might hurt his political future, and flip flop unmercifully on issues such as funding the war and voting for the patriot act.

Obama is no leader. He is a media creation. And you fell for it. The media built him up and rest assured they will take him down in the GE.

[stevietheman]

25. wow... what a desperate Hillbot. n/t

n/t

[Skittles]

46. get a clue, please

I am not a HRC supporter yet I too fail to see leadership in Obama

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Ask Edwards. You know the answer, don't you! How very transparent of you!

:spank:

[catagory5]

33. You'd dont know the answer OP?

Because Obama is that good. He is one of a kind no doubt. But just think that Hillary is holding her own with him and may even be slightly ahead still. That sheds some light on how good she is as well. We are looking at History kids. There hasn't been a fight like this in, well, never.
But I just have to think this; we have a chance to get 16 years out of this. I am hoping that it works out that way. Maybe it wont. The more time that passes and the more translucent I get, I realize just how strong we, as a party are so freakin' tough. It would well up my eyes if Clinton got the nod, Obama was her Veep, and they asked Edwards to be AG. Hell, Richardson could even have a position. I hope it just works out for all of us!
Love every one of yall!!!!!!

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. Some Obama supporters may think this has been a dirty Primary race

but in reality it has been as dirty as a spelling bee for politics played at this level. What passes as an underhanded attack in these primaries wouldn't qualify as a soft ball pitch in a hard fought Presidential campaign. The 2004 Democratic Primaries were nastier by far than what we have seen in the 2008 primaries to date. Many of the very same people who practice character assassination daily online are the first to scream bloody murder if anyone touches a kid glove to Barack Obama in the real world. Online this campaign is down and dirty, but not where our candidates actually live.

Having your actual middle name mentioned in public, no matter what it might be, is not hard ball politics. Having passages from a memoir that you yourself wrote speculated about in public is not hard ball politics. Calling attention to a candidate's race in a contest that the entire world is fixated on in part due to that candidate's race, is not hard ball politics. Having a second federal prosecutor reopen a closed investigation of the suicide of your personal friend to determine if he was actually murdered, while national talk radio fingers you as the probable murderess, now THAT is hard ball politics.

I do not fault Barack Obama for the campaign he has run so far, I praise it. Let me be clear about that. Obama has done extraordinarily well, and the approach he has taken is working fabulously for him, in this far cleaner than average Democratic Primary. But Barack Obama hasn't been hit with a single truly nasty negative campaign ad yet, let alone the full frenzy fury of a rabid Republican swiftboat crew. Obama has gotten a great deal of media scrutiny; to his amazing cross racial appeal, to his uplifting hopeful message, of his youthful comparison to the JFK of camelot, but precious little to his prior political career.

And half of the little negative press that Obama has received in this campaign he only received because Hillary Clinton managed to mention the name Rezko during a nationally televised debate, in response to an attack that Barack Obama made on Hillary Clinton's past. The media had been more than happy to just sit on that story before then, until perhaps the General Election. Obama never had to go hard negative on Hillary himself because the Republican Party did that work on her for him long ago, and the national media refuses to let anyone forget about it. All Obama has to do now is occasionally remind voters, while acknowledging that it may not be fair, of how "divisive" Hillary currently is, while asking "Do you want to return to the bitter partisan grid lock of the 90's?"

As if Hillary Clinton were the cause of all that. As if Barack Obama can vow to house break the G.O.P. when he enters the White House instead. Obama gets to run his campaign of hope, and the press covers the arms in the crowds uplifted toward him. Hillary talks about fighting for Democratic ideals and the press covers the scars on her arms from prior fights for them.

It's good for the Democratic Party that Obama won Iowa and Clinton won New Hampshire, because though the rhetoric has not been overly harsh in this campaign, the continuing ordeal of this endless campaign has been. Whichever of them ultimately wins, Obama or Clinton, will be a better candidate in the Summer for having gone through this Winter ordeal. This is a race where Obama fought back from behind, and Clinton fought back from behind, and Obama fought back from behind, and now it is Clinton having to fight back again. There is real fight in both these candidates, but only one of them has been tested in no holds barred combat with the National Republican Party before. Perhaps that will change this Summer. Perhaps not.

P.S. I will also use this to start a seperate thread.

[XemaSab]

43. The beauty of this is... Obama's making it look easy.

"Eh, we figured out a few weeks ago that the key to winning an election is to go play basketball in the morning on election day, so we make a point to do that now." :)

[Medusa]

49. Because she and her hand-picked "team"

are disasters incapable of making sound-decisions or facing reality?