Is Jim Hightower a Right Wing Plant?

[corporatewhore]

He did post a pro-nader article on his blog and highlighted the phase
"Ralph Nader has long since earned the right to run for president any damn time he pleases" does this mean hes a right wing plant or a tool of the republicans? http://hightower.fmp.com/weblogitem.php?id=914

[jpgray]

1. Nader can run whenever he wants. People wish he wouldn't, though (nt)

[angryinoville]

3. True

[WilliamPitt]

2. Insane

[NoPasaran]

5. What part of Hightower is insane?

His conclusion:

If the Democrats find Nader so objectionable, let them steal his thunder by living up to their election-year rhetoric.

My real objections to Nader running for president are not that he's just another politician, but that he's not politician enough, not at least for this sort of rigged contest. The Clinton-Gore
administration was essentially center-right, clinging to power by repetitively putting a friendly face ("This is going to hurt us more than it hurts you!") on reactionary social policies and military
adventurism. In 2000, Bush ran like a moderate, and has governed like an extremist – and the current survivors in the Democratic field, Kerry and Edwards, have distinguished themselves in the
Senate largely by signing on to White House policy, though with heartfelt regrets. Bush is already dismissing Kerry as a "waffler," and though Bush's know-nothingism is truly repulsive, neither
do we need in Washington a more intellectual, more respectable, more deeply reflective version of the Same Old Shit. However much that might please The New York Times.

And what bothers me about a Nader run is quite similar to what has happened to the Kucinich candidacy – the marginalized ineffectiveness of populism-from-the-top-down tends to discredit
truly progressive activism at the grassroots, when the real work is always going on in the neighborhoods, in the city councils, even in the state houses. Nader (and the Naderites) are really
great at what he does best – demanding, negotiating, and occasionally litigating progressive change from soporific institutions wedded to entrenched power. He is not so good at soberly
hectoring the voters from the campaign pulpit, especially when millions of the most progressive of those voters will now be further convinced that he's (wittingly or not) in league with the
forces of darkness. That's not good for Ralph Nader, and it's not good for the country. Whatever happens in November, Ralph Nader's legacy will remain quite fine, thank you, which is more
than can be said of either the Republicans or Democrats. But this year looks like one of those dreary moments when the perfect is the enemy of the good.

[WilliamPitt]

8. Um

The idea that he is a GOP plant is insane.

Or, in other words, duh.

[NoPasaran]

10. OK, I thought you were calling Hightower insane

Not the idea that he was a right wing tool.

I would hope that the other posters who now have their kinives out for my main man Jim would actually read his article.

[Florida_Geek]

4. Dem to Hightowner Fuck you.

[IrateCitizen]

12. Jim Hightower has and is doing more for progressive causes...

... than you will most likely do in five lifetimes. But hey, that doesn't matter when it's all about the "team" -- right? :eyes:

[Florida_Geek]

16. Wrong

did you read

"The real question remains: How do we replace this two-horse scam?"

That is the same shit Nader talks about.

[G_j]

19. which has traction

because it's true. He is not saying that both parties are the same.

[flpoljunkie]

6. No, he's a fool.

A Nader enabler. There is no excuse on earth for any Democrat committed to getting George W. Bush out of the White House, to vote for Ralph Nader.

There is only one reason Gore lost in Florida--the 97,488 Nader votes.

As Dubya once tried to say, "Fool me once...shame on you.! Fool me twice...shame on me!

[IrateCitizen]

15. Why don't you read the piece before commenting?

Because your comments completely contradict what was actually in the article. Believe it or not, it called on Nader not to run this year -- albeit in a rather roundabout way.

Nah, it's much easier to HATE than to engage in thoughtful debate or pause for a moment to THINK, isn't it??? :eyes:

[Dhalgren]

17. More registered Democrats voted for Bush than Nader in 2000.

.

[He loved Big Brother]

21. THANK YOU!!

I get so tired of pointing this out.

[no name no slogan]

EXACTLY!!!! 30,000 FL Dems voted for SHRUB in 2000

There were 30,000 Democrats in Florida who voted for Shrub in 2000. Before you start casting stones at the Nader voters, maybe you better look in your own house, first.

[erpowers]

37. I Can't Believe That

Not that I am calling you a liar, but I think the 30,000 democratic votes for Bush in Florida was part of a scam. I refuse to believe that such a high number of Democrats would vote for Bush. I think those votes were just stolen. I want to see the faces of the Democrats who voted for Bush. Unitl I see faces I will not believe it.

[WitchWay]

41. 750,000 self-described Dems voted for Bush

According to exit polls, it was about 750,000, actually, or 13% of all self-described Democrats. Nader got 1% of self-described Democrats. Bush also got 17% of self-described "liberals". Nader got 3% of them.
http://www.lsu.edu/sociology/weil-temp/VNS2000FL.html
http://www.msnbc.com/m/d2k/g/polls.asp?office=P&state=fl

Why would Florida voters call themselves liberal Democrats but vote for Bush?
Maybe because 59% had incomes over $50k, and Bush beat Gore resoundingly among that group. Maybe because retirees on fixed incomes really hate taxes (Bush beat Gore 52% to 46% among voters age 65+). The income/age difference might also explain why Bush beat Gore 56% to 41% among voters who had completed college.

Like Nader said, you need to study the data like a sports fan to really understand what's going on out there.

[Ricdude]

26. There was a lot more to it than "nader stealing votes in florida"...

That was one of many contributing factors. To ignore the purging of the voter rolls, the "hanging chad" problem, the Supreme Court intervention, the college whose polling place disappeared without replacement, etc. is an oversimplistic reaction. All of these (even Robertson's "stealing" votes from Bush) factors contributed to Bush being appointed president today.

Nader's line was that the Democrats and Republicans are the same. Honestly, if you remove the neocon wing of the Republican party, they wind up fairly close together in practice, and there isn't a large enough margin on either side to truly tilt the scales in one direction over another.

The fundamental problem with the 2000 election was the instability in the electoral vote assigning process. That is, a difference of 1 vote in 1 state *can* sway the electoral vote count by a dozeon or more. One state (Maine?) assigns one electoral vote for the winner in each congressional district, and assignes the two "senate" electoral votes to the popular vote winner statewide. This means that the whole state's votes don't swing to a single candidate based on a single screwy district.

Also, if Instant Runoff Voting were the norm, those of us on the progressive wing of the Democratic Party (that haven't jumped over to the Green Party) could vote for our "favourite" candidate, while still expressing a second (or third) place preference for a candidate who actually has a chance at winning the election. This would eliminate the "wasted vote" argument.

[WitchWay]

34. GORE DIDN'T LOSE

But it sure would have been nice of him if he fought for the election that he WON instead of letting voters get fucked over...and made sure to address all the SCRUBBED voting lists that disenfranchised and predominately african american voters. Gore wimped out, and he had no right to do so.

Funny he didn't do that, huh?

[DannyRed]

39. Uhhhhh

"There is only one reason Gore lost in Florida--the 97,488 Nader votes."

Actually, based on the supposed vote margin, the REAL reason why Gore lost is the 1800 votes received by the Workers's World Party.

or the 600 recieved by both the Socialist and Socialist Workers' parties.

Or the tens of thousands purged wrongly from the voter rolls.

Back off.

[Fenris]

7. Just because you have the right to run doesn't mean you should

Example:

Nader has the right to run. So does everyone who qualifies. It does not mean that he should.

[corporatewhore]

9. yeah but to call him a RW plant is ludicrous if you have looked at his

countless years of public service and consumer advocacy

[Jane Austin]

33. Splat!!

All over the screen!

[sonias]

11. I don't believe he is, not for a second

That doesn't mean that Hightower doesn't have green, populist tendencies and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And no matter how you feel about Nader, this is America and you can't stop someone from running for President if he/she has support. That said, that doesn't mean we have to vote for him. I personally do not think he's going to get enough signatures to get on the ballot in Texas this year. Last time the Greens really got out there and worked for him. He doesn't have that support structure there now. I give Nader credit where he does his best, at consumer advocacy.

I think Hightowers article in the Chron and in the blog are more an ode to his work in that area too.

Hightower is all about supporting grassroots populism, take the party back to the people.

(snip)
"And what bothers me about a Nader run is quite similar to what has happened to the Kucinich candidacy – the marginalized ineffectiveness of populism-from-the-top-down tends to discredit truly progressive activism at the grassroots, when the real work is always going on in the neighborhoods, in the city councils, even in the state houses. Nader (and the Naderites) are really great at what he does best – demanding, negotiating, and occasionally litigating progressive change from soporific institutions wedded to entrenched power."
(/snip)

I'm stepping up tot he plate to support Hightower. He's one of the hardest working activists we have out there, writing, appearing on talk radio, appearing at benefits and lending his support to grassroots causes. Hightower is in no way a right wing plant.

Sonia

[emulatorloo]

13. No he is not a "right-wing plant" Why are you calling him one?

He is a great writer/reporter, and Nader does have a right to run for president.

That being said, I wish Nader would not run for president this time.

[corporatewhore]

18. just pointing out how crazy some people have sounded in this forum

[IrateCitizen]

14. Apparently the Nader-haters didn't bother to READ the piece!

Here's the last paragraph, which they MIGHT have noticed had they bothered to read rather than starting to spit venom at the mere mention of the name RALPH NADER:

And what bothers me about a Nader run is quite similar to what has happened to the Kucinich candidacy – the marginalized ineffectiveness of populism-from-the-top-down tends to discredit truly progressive activism at the grassroots, when the real work is always going on in the neighborhoods, in the city councils, even in the state houses. Nader (and the Naderites) are really great at what he does best – demanding, negotiating, and occasionally litigating progressive change from soporific institutions wedded to entrenched power. He is not so good at soberly hectoring the voters from the campaign pulpit, especially when millions of the most progressive of those voters will now be further convinced that he's (wittingly or not) in league with the forces of darkness. That's not good for Ralph Nader, and it's not good for the country. Whatever happens in November, Ralph Nader's legacy will remain quite fine, thank you, which is more than can be said of either the Republicans or Democrats. But this year looks like one of those dreary moments when the perfect is the enemy of the good.

[Florida_Geek]

24. Did you read the article.

" Whatever happens in November, Ralph Nader's legacy will remain quite fine,"

So it is OK for Bush to win in Nov, Highshit is telling you already it will not be Nader's fault

[corporatewhore]

25. it is Hightower not Highshit btw he posted it on his blog hedidnt writeit

[ulysses]

30. "Highshit"

Wow. That's a good one.

:eyes:

[silverlib]

20. I'm stepping on the plate with Sonia...

Jim Hightower works hard for the Democratic Party. He has never wavered. He has a tremendous amount of energy and I appreciate his devotion to getting the Party energized. He is far from a Right Wing Plant.

One of the biggest Right Wing Plants just lost his election in Texas -His name was Wilson. The Democratic Party allowed the voters to oust him, unlike the Republicans did with the Republican senator that stood by the Texas 12. Democratic Party politics start from the people and not the politicians and Hightower is no Wilson.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. I think they are both great

But then most Dems think _I_ am a right-wing tool because I am a Green. *eyes*

[Zorra]

23. No, he is not. Or as they say in French, "No, ee eez not."

[zulchzulu]

27. As Mike Myers said in the SNL Sprockets skits...

Mr. Hightower, your story has become tiresome.

[RichM]

28. Nader-hating reflects simply the inability of Democrats to squarely face

their party's weakness, confusion, & decay. If Democrats spoke more like Nader does, he wouldn't feel obligated to run against them. If Democrats are unable to speak like Nader does, they consign themselves to being no more than the lesser evil.

[genius]

29. HIghtower's okay.

He's right. Nader has a right to run. It's not in the interests of the country. In fact, it will probably help to destroy the country. But he does have a right to run.

[Jane Austin]

31. Hightower

Heck No!  Hightower has been fighting the good fight here in
Texas for decades.

He's been the victim of the Republicans, not their tool.

[flaminbats]

32. I just can't tell you...

A trick question right? :shrug:

[info being]

35. You don't *literally* believe that Nader supporters are Right-Wingers?

That's the Democratic spin...but it isn't the reality and I don't think it was ever meant to be taken literally. Sorry. It isn't that simple.

[corporatewhore]

36. i was using it to show how silly the dems can be

[tobius]

38. this from Orcinus.

Anyone who votes for Nader isn't just voting for Bush. They're voting for a right-wing tool and a wacko in his own right.
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_02_22_dneiwert_archive.html#107800742092584595

and around the web--

A Republican Nader?
http://slate.msn.com/id/2094118/

Bush-Nader, Nush-Bader?
http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/homepage_bushnader.htm

Bush-Nader: Indistinguishable?
Bush-Nader: Famous names.
Bush-Nader: No friends of the Green party.
Bush-Nader: Beholden to selfish interests (themselves).
Bush-Nader: When the going gets tough, get mean.
Bush-Nader: If all else fails, lie.
Bush-Nader: Unsafe at any speed?
Bush-Nader: Both claim success in Florida.
Bush-Nader: The end of the environment as we knew it.
Bush-Nader: Indistinguishable?

[WitchWay]

40. sigh

Nader is no right-wing wacko or tool of the Republican party. That's ludicrous. I've seen these sort of smear tactics before, and they never hold water. If Nader was such a tool of the Republican party, how come he spends so much of his time fighting corporate greed, power and corruption?

The article you refer to as A Republican Ralph Nader -- was about someone who is comparable to Nader from the right side. That was tricky of you.

Nader associates with people from all over the poltical spectrum. He has no ideological ball and chain. In fact, lately he has been involved with organizing an open debates commission, and is part of a lawsuit on behalf of third parties fighting the commision on presidential debates, which is a corporate-sponsored tool of the two-party duopoly.
http://www.opendebates.org/

Ralph Nader is a lifelong Independent, has never belonged to any political party, and is currently under consideration for endorsement by both the Green and Reform Parties.

The potential involvement of the Reform Party in Nader's run brings us to your xenophobic hit-piece about Nader's recent association with Fred Newman, Lenora Fulani and the New Alliance Party. In 2000, Fulani and Newman had quit the Reform Party over conflicts with right-wingers in it (they had allied with Buchanan to take over the Reform Party from the Perot followers). Fulani and Newman formed a new organization (they start one every three years or so, it seems) called Committee for a Unified Independent Party. http://www.cuip.org They tried to get Nader involved then, but he apparently just ignored them.

Fulani and Newman also formed the Independence Party of New York, and convinced Bloomberg to run on their line as well as the Republican line. Their support may have provided the margin of victory over Mark Green in 2001 -- largely because Green had resorted to some race-baiting in the primaries, alienating backers of his opponent Ferrer, including Sharpton.

The Independence Party candidate Tom Golisano won 14% of the vote in the 2002 NY governor's race, proving that the Fulani/Newman movement was becoming more and more a significant electoral force. It was most likely for that reason Nader agreed to address a CUIP conference in 2003. Nader is an old-style statesman -- he talks to people because they represent significant points of view and electoral blocs. He also attended a Grover Norquist Wednesday breakfast in 2002, where he took the conservative activists around the table to task for not standing up for their professed values against the Republican Party's pandering to corporate interests.

If the rank and file in the both parties would talk to each other more, like Nader talks with everyone, instead of swallowing whole the lies each party leadership spins about the other party, then both parties could be forced to represent the will of the people again.

[tobius]

44. slightly bigger "sigh"

forgot to put this html tag in my post </sarcasm>

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Monte Carlo]

43. We shouldn't be in the business of saying who can and can't run for Prez.

It's undemocratic. It may not be the best idea at this point in time, but Nader has every right to run for President, just as I will once I reach the age. And no, Hightower is not a plant because of that fact.