A wee bit of extra dirt on the McCain/Kerry thing

[WilliamPitt]

I tossed back a few beers with a fairly senior Kerry campaign guy in Arizona, who let me know that they were really working hard there to get McCain to consider a spot on the ticket.

This was in July.

:)

[incapsulated]

1. Leave it to you...

To throw gasoline on the fire. :spank:

 
 

[WilliamPitt]

2. Gasoline?

I've been sitting on that nugget for eight months. Seems to be on the table now, so...

[incapsulated]

3. They will go...

BERSERK now, saying that Kerry really wants McCain!

 
 

[WilliamPitt]

4. Maybe he does

I don't think the Kerry guy was lying to me. He showed me the campaign video they were running at the time. It featured McCain prominently...and not by accident, according to this dude.

McCain enjoys wide support from independents all across the country. He is pretty well respected...and it will CHEESE OFF GEORGE W. BUSH in a way that only a Richter scale could measure. Revenge for South Carolina? George will be enjoying the cold dish.

There is also the Vietnam connection. Kerry and McCain have worked well together in the past.

I agree with those who say McCain would have to leave his party to do this, and as a liberal I am pretty freaked out by a lot of his policy positions. As an observer of raw electoral geometry, however, I see this ticket as a juggernaut.

So it's a put-up-or-shut-up moment for ABBers like me, I guess.

[incapsulated]

5. I'm staying out of this

But some here, well more than some, would find it totally unacceptable.

Me, sometimes I love him, other times I want to have him slowly killed. :)

 
 

[WilliamPitt]

6. The idea that 'some here' would be against it

is not the best possible agrument. "DU Conventional Wisdom" is remarkable in its consistent ability to be dead wrong when it comes to electoral issues. The more people here might scream that it is a disaster, the higher any Kerry/McCain poll numbers would go. It's almost axiomatic at this point.

:)

[incapsulated]

8. Yeah, but..

 
Monkey's typing Shakespeare... ;)

This actually bolsters those stumping for a Clark VP, though. If they can't have McCain, Clark's the closest they will get to an "independent, tough guy" type.

It's Kerry's choice, as far as I'm concerned.

 
 

[MurikanDemocrat]

10. No kidding. I am thinking of making a business of betting against

the wisdom of DU when it comes to anything political. It seems like this is the place to find mass opinion most lacking the pulse of the American people and conventional wisdom.

[Donna Zen]

66. Very telling of your attitude Will

That the issues of women's health are brushed aside as the ravings of the unenlightened commoners.

[WilliamPitt]

69. Spare me

Pro-choice is my top issue. Along with several others that are also my top issue. Here's the news: If Bush wins again, Roe is gone. Gone. Gone. Would I accede to a guy like McCain being in the most useless, poweless office in the land to keep that from happening? Fuck yes I would. Do I think a Vice President McCain would have any say whatsoever in the nomination of judges and the protection of Roe? Fuck no I don't.

Be careful, in your advocacy, that you do not burn down the forest to save the trees.

[babzilla]

73. burn down the forest to save the trees?

did you just make that up?

I've heard of burning bridges behind you

I've heard of not seeing the forest for the trees

I've even heard of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Does this have anything to do with the healthy forest initiative?

[WilliamPitt]

74. Kind of a play on destroying the village to save it

[babzilla]

78. I think I read that book

It takes a village to raise a destroyed burnt tree.

As far as the Arizona guy, of course he was advocating for McCain.

McCain is the most popular politician in the state.

How about Napolitano (D) for VP? Did the Arizona guy mention her too?

[Donna Zen]

90. Roe v Wade--how important? And to whom?

To put McCain one heart beat away is hardly a small matter; in fact, by assenting to the name on the ballot is already to concede the high ground. Trees and forests are all easy anologies, but life and death are concepts beyond clever campaign tickets. If women are no longer valued by the Democratic party just let us know.

Let us look at it this way, would you expect the African American community to support a ticket with Kerry/Helms?

The office of VP is only powerless while Kerry stays in his as you well know.

But beyond that, the notion that somehow the Democrats are so berift of qualified vp candidates that they must run with a Repub somehow makes us look stronger and therefore more electable is a laughable concept.?

[beachbum]

102. Thats scarey

I know that isnt what this thread is about, but the idea of losing the option to choose, is scarey.

[hippiegranny]

67. unfortunately

you are absolutely correct, mr pitt. the track record for predictions on this board is almost 100% dead wrong.

[arcos]

17. McCain is certainly a conservative...

but Jeffords's voting record was much more conservative when he was a Republican than what it is now. Who knows, maybe McCain is really more liberal than what his voting record says.

[blondeatlast]

39. I believe you are onto something. As a longtime Arizonan,

I think if this were a more liberal state you might see a more liberal record for McCain. He seems to vote to the right when it's not a critical piece of legislation, but votes leftward when it is critical.

McCain has been giving subtle hints that he has been less than enchanted with the RNC powers that be, occasionally even dropping hints that he would like to divorce himself from the Repugs, especially after the dirty tricks that were played against him in 2000.

Nasty stuff indeed, and I'm sure there is more than a slight desire to stick it to Rove and Co. for that little escapade. This would do it!

[MurikanDemocrat]

7. *gulp* I could swallow it if McCain went Independent. If he stayed

Republican it would be too bizarre! But as long as Kerry was in charge I guess it would still be okay. This takes a little getting used to ......

[blondeatlast]

41. I think he would like to, possible even go Dem.

He has been extrememly pissed at the RNC types since the nastiness of the 2000 campaign. A lot of Arizona Republicans either voted Dem or stayed homw because they were so disgusted with the smear campaign; McCain is, rightly or wrongly, hugely repected here.

[Blue_Roses]

58. this is what I don't get

if he is so "extremely pissed" at the RNC then why doesn't he leave and either align himself with the Democratic party or an Independent.

[blondeatlast]

96. Mone, money, money.

and he would lose an enormopus faithful base in Arizona--count on that.

[HFishbine]

47. So

It's just the label that matters?

[MurikanDemocrat]

55. You're damn right the label matters. Look at what Jeffords did for us

when he changed his label to Independent.

[kclown]

54. President of the Senate

with a vote if the issue is a tie is the one real duty of the
VP.  McCain would have to switch parties to be acceptable.

[ozone_man]

72. Then we'd have 2 repubs vs. 1 repub and 1 repub lite.

Starting to sound like a republican is going to win this year.

[Bread and Circus]

89. Wouldn't Clark also fit the role well of tough pragmatist, Mr. Pitt?

[dpbrown]

94. Final hatchet blow cutting off the progressives

And it's an illusion to continue to believe that the 5 million or so who voted for Gore but wished he were more conservative are going to have more sway over the final outcome than the potential of the 3 million or so Nader voters along with the 80 million who didn't vote in 2000.

A nail in the coffin of the Democratic Party to go even more conservative, thinking that the choice of Kerry (due mainly to "electability"), signals a mandate to coopt even more of the Republican message, by choosing McCain.

If Kerry chooses McCain (which he won't), then Democrats no longer have any credibility in trying to force progressives into their rightward-leaning tent.

People are already going to be choosing between two candidates who:

1. Favored the illegal invasion of Iraq.

2. Favor private boondoggle health care.

3. Favor the shipping out of more jobs overseas.

Erase the "pro-choice" (and whatever else was in McCain's very appropriate quote that accompanied this speculation about why it would never happen) difference, and you'll be giving progressives yet one more reason to choose someone else or sit this one out.

I think it's irresponsible to continue to prop up McCain's chances.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[jansu]

99. That would seem like a win/win for the Republicans....

If Bush wins, great, if Kerry/McCain wins, well a Republican is only a heart beat or cancer cell away from the Presidency! No thanks! I want someone who really is and has always been a fighter for the Democratic ideals, not a Johnny come lately!

Hasn't this last three years shown us that we don't need Republicans in politics, until they change from getting their marching orders from the extreme Religious Right and their plans for taking us back to before the Dark Ages?!!

[roguevalley]

100. I refuse to vote for a Kerry/McCain ticket. Period.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

44. 8 MONTHS!!!

Man, you are good.... no- AWESOME!
This clinches it for me. Clark's the guy.

[JI7]

9. didn't Kerry have some problems in July

problems such as not doing so well in the polls to even consider vp ?

[WilliamPitt]

11. A guy has to dream, right?

Turns out he was correct in July when he said he'd be the nominee, so...

[madrchsod]

12. interesting

two war heroes against a couple of cowards..although mc has some good points ,he`s kind of scary. yes ,he would really piss off karl and his clan. it will be interesting

[WilliamPitt]

13. In the end, it hinges on two things

1. Limiting McCain's access to policy decisions, and keeping his profile as the deciding vote in the Senate;

2. Making sure Kerry stays very, very healthy.

[JI7]

14. so why not max cleland or bob kerrey ?

if he wants one of his vietnam vet buddies on the ticket.

[WilliamPitt]

16. Max Cleland is a brilliant idea, imho

but that brings in the Southern Strategy v. Western Strategy issue. Kerry is not running a Southern Strategy to any significant degree, which is why Edwards is probably out as a VP pick. Cleland, while bringing about a zillion other intangibles to the table, is kind of in the same boat.

The Boston Globe had an article a couple of weeks ago pointedly saying Kerry is planning to run a Western Strategy. Ergo, look for a Western VP pick...like McCain.

[VolcanoJen]

22. You know, I really think Edwards fits into more than just...

... a "Southern Strategy," and I think we shouldn't overlook his appeal, gentlemanly Southern accent and all, to working-class people in the industrial swing states.

It's the message... not the accent.

[Gato Moteado]

24. or bill richardson

yeah, mccain certainly would be an interesting pick. i bet it would attract 80-90% of independent voters.

who was the last pres candidate that picked a running mate from the other party? lincoln?

[Blue_Roses]

61. Bill Richardson

has made it very clear he doesn't want to vice spot--way before Kerry sealed the nomination.

He is a great governor and I like him alot. I think he is a great asset.

[randr]

40. Gary Hart????

[flaminbats]

50. McCain voted against the taxcuts, Cleland voted for them...

IMHO it would be better for the ticket if both Kerry and his running-mate had opposed the taxcuts from the beginning. But both Cleland and McCain would be excellent choices for the ticket. :thumbsup:

[Exgeneral]

101. Kerry/Kerrey

would confuse the average american voter no end.
Not gonna happen.

[incapsulated]

15. Number 2 is really my only fear

The main reason I was against Clark as VP was that I wanted him to have a more influential role in a Kerry Admin. VP is pretty much only what the President allows it to be, and that, historically, isn't much.

 
 

[Kool Kitty]

18. That is usually true.

The present VP seems to be an exception.

[incapsulated]

20. This whole Administration

Is an exception to the general rule.

Like how they got in office to begin with.

 
 

[Kool Kitty]

23. Ain't that the truth?

[Blue_Roses]

60. sorry but that makes

no sense--"limiting McCain's access to policy decisions," and "making sure Kerry stays very, very healthy." I don't want a vice-president who I have to worry will make the wrong decisions based on his history with the Republican party. It makes me very uneasy and it makes Kerry look like an extremely wishy-washy Democrat--which is already coming into question.

I have full faith in Kerry as a President, but not John McCain.

[babzilla]

93. why go with someone you have to limit?

this is a pretty stupid plan.

Nominate someone for VP that you don't trust policy-wise and hope to god that Kerry stays healthy.

Brilliant strategy old boy.

As a westerner please don't claim that this is the western strategy. We know better than that, AZ "high up" Kerry dude notwithstanding.

[JI7]

19. Kerry/McCain v Bush/Cheney national polls ?

i would be interested in a national poll being done asking about a kerry/mccain ticket. i do think it would pretty much give us new hampshire (already for kerry at this point) and arizona. and nevada should go democrat anyways because of the nuclear storage issue.

but i would especially like to see the independent numbers with a kerry/mccain ticket. and to see if we lose any democratic votes and whether we gain republicans.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

21. Yeah we need an ELECTIBLE ticket

we need to kick Bush out NOW. Who cares if we sacrifice a little bit of principle. We cannot let him appoint any more judges. Roe vs Wade is in peril. Anybody But Bush

[Donna Zen]

68. Who needs a Supreme Court

when you have an administration that doesn't agree with a woman's right to chose?

[ronnykmarshall]

82. Kerry's pro-choice

What's your point?

[zulchzulu]

25. You mean Kerry/McCain thing?

If that happened, Cheney would be tossed out the window faster than armadillo roadkill sandwiches at a Bush RNC fundraiser.

[raysr]

27. What a way for McCain

to get even with Rove for the SC 2000 dirty tricks! I don't like him, he smiles too much. Just like all fuckin' Repugs, always laughing.

[Gato Moteado]

28. he might be anyway

i can't imagine what that stiff offers to the ticket. he's a walking scandal. i imagine they'd love to replace him and let him continue to run the show from a different undisclosed location.

[ronnykmarshall]

84. You're killin' me zulchzulu!

That is one of the funniest and best visuals yet!!:bounce:

[Khephra]

26. hehehehe I was wondering if you would fess up

All I said about it was that I had heard about the topic months ago.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the person who told me about it.

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Well, if that happens I will

vote for the ticket in November and then hightail it on over to the Green party.

I know that just makes me a typical dumb DUer who's out of touch with where the country is, but I just don't give a damn anymore.

I guess I'm out of touch just by not being a Republican. If I wanted to vote Republican I would be a member of that party. If being a Democrat means voting Republican than there's simply no more point to it.

[BootinUp]

30. I'm with you crunchy

I think this is a ridiculous proposition. Why the F would we want a republican on our ticket, absurd.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. Thanks Jim

and to think that we were the ones that got called Republicans for months on this board.:eyes:

[LizW]

32. I agree with crunchy and Jim

This is ridiculous.

I can just hear the right wingers laughing their asses off and saying how this shows that the Democrats finally realize that they are dead, and so out of the mainstream that the only way they can win is to run Republicans.

We've allowed the right to ratchet political discourse ever-rightward for the last two decades, and this would be the extreme of kissing up to the right.

Yeah, I know McCain has tweaked the Republicans, but how successful was he? He became the roadkill of Republican dirty politics in 2000, and he would likely fall victim to the same tactics in 2004.

The very idea makes me ill.

How long do we keep trying to appeal to middle and getting dragged to the right? The Repubs play for keeps, and they don't play nice. Remember the state legislator in Texas (can't remember the name) who was a targeted victim of redistricting? He protested to the Republicans, saying, (paraphrasing) "Guys? Why are you doing this to me? I've voted with you on EVERYTHING. I've been with you on EVERYTHING. Why are you targeting my district?"

The Repubs simply replied, "You're a Democrat."

Nominating a Republican for the Democratic ticket would be the death knell of the Democratic Party.

[KoKo]

34. I'm with you LizW, Crunchy, others. Well said, LizW. n/t

[Blue_Roses]

62. I have to say

I agree 100%. This is the most ridiculous idea--in this of all elections to pull this fast one. If Kerry does this I will lose all respect for him.

[NNN0LHI]

33. This ticket would make me consider going third party

For all of about ten minutes. Then I would start campaigning for Kerry/McCain.

Don

[KoKo]

36. Well, this site could change it's name to "Repug/Lite Underground."

If this happens it's what we will be. Hell, we should have just picked Lieberman or Zell Miller if we go with John McCain.

[NNN0LHI]

38. If McCain were to switch parties to run with Kerry that would be...

...a tip off to me just how dangerous things have become with Bush as president. I would consider McCain as the "kitchen sink" in a throw everything but the "kitchen sink" at them scenario. I would wonder why? And I would realize that my worst fears have been confirmed. Four more years of Bush and his minions would be the end of this country.

Don

[KoKo]

42. Well, you make an interesting point there. If it's that bad maybe we need

to save the "ship" (USA) from disaster rather than just "turning it."

However, John McCain is a very weird bird. Not someone who's maybe trustworthy if you've read how he and Kerry have stalled families looking for MIA's and some other things they've done together.

I'm not dissing Kerry. Always figured he would be the "electable nominee" even though I rooted for and contributed to Dean/Kucinich.

But, still gagging down McCain because we are desperate...I don't know.

How do we know that Kerry and McCain aren't part of the plan of the PNAC'ers? Some DU'ers feel that to be true and have posted about it.
Things have become so strange in this country one hardly knows what the truth of anything is.

But, as I said, you make an interesting point....

[NNN0LHI]

48. Yea. I have never expressed any love for McCain or his positions...

...on this board or anywhere else KoKo. Nope. Don't like him. Consider him extreme in his views. But if there was something on the horizon with Bush that these two guys know and agree about that I may not be aware of I would have to take that into the consideration. Thats all I am saying here.

Don

[hippiechick]

35. July ?

If this discussion happened last July, then its pretty evident that the 'nominee' was pre-selected by TPTB and the primaries were a bunch of shit.

Time to dust off my Green Party card.

:hippie:

[Hav]

37. yeah sure

hahaha...

[jonnyblitz]

43. truly one of the more disturbing things I have read on DU

that this would even be considered sets me waaaay back in my attempt to be "for" Kerry and not just ABB.

[WyLoochka]

45. Ugh

Democrats in Arizona want to get rid of McCain as Senator by replacing him with - guess what, a DEMOCRATIC SENATOR - and they do not want to put a Republican into the veep spot on the DEMOCRATIC ticket. We are not crazy out here.

The "senior" guy you were talking to was taking advantage of your ignorance of southwestern politics and pulling your chain. Don't believe what you hear when you are drunk, Pitt.

This talk of McCain is so stoooooopid and undermining to the Democratic Party. We have thousands of real Democrats far more qualified than McCain could ever possibly be. We look positively inept, incompetent and insecure in what we stand for in even mentioning the subject.

[mrgorth]

46. The only thing that would worry me about that ticket

is 'pugs shooting at Kerry to get McCain in. I'm a socialist but I would like the country to be a little less divided and this ticket might do the trick.

[Orangepeel]

49. Maybe Kerry wants Thomas Jefferson as his running mate

it's about as likely.

Anybody who thinks that McCain is NOT a loyal republican because he gripes about bush every once in a while to bolster his "maverick" image is just plain wrong. For McCain to endorse bush and campaign for bush in 2000 after what they did to him in the primaries means that McCain ain't never jumping ship.

[greatauntoftriplets]

51. Great thundering gods!

Can I please defect to Ireland -- now?

[ibegurpard]

52. The only way I would ever consider voting for someone like McCain

on a Democratic presidential ticket would be if he had consistently and forcefully been criticizing both the Bush administration and the right-wing radicals who control congress (the same thing, really). That hasn't happened so if McCain's on the ticket, I'm going third party. Period.

[MadHound]

53. What a foolish idea!

Putting McCain on the ticket would simply confirm in many many minds the notion that we have devolved into a single party system of government. This is taking the win at all costs notion too far. Hell, if all the Dems want to do is win, without regards to their core beliefs, or the beliefs of their constituents, then just go all the way and nominate Bush!

There are so many things wrong with this idea on so many levels that it boggles the mind. But hey, I say go for it! The Greens will pick up the totally disgusted vote, get their 5% easy, and be well on their way to displacing the quisling Dems with a party who provides REAL difference.

Sheesh, don't you folks get it? It is stunts like this that continously drive people out of the party!

[KC21304]

56. McCain was just poking his finger in GW's eye.

Maybe Defense. I know they want a Republican for Defense. Then we would get the Dem. Sen. seat to replace Kerry's if the Gov picks a Repub.

[Blue_Roses]

57. Why

If I wanted a Republican for President I would vote for Bush. This is the dumbest idea yet

[Donna Zen]

59. Well I am truly disgusted:

First, McCain is anti-choice. Kerry wants my money, but he doesn't care about my daughter's health and safety.

You know yesterday I signed up at two grassroots/approved sites and put my toe in the water. I made calls yesterday evening to begin organizing this county. Just the IDEA that Kerry would talk to someone who was against a women's right to choose...never mind all of the other opposing views McCain holds, makes me question my actions.

Of course since my ideas would seem to be held in scorn by the elite, I guess I need to reassess the entire ballgame.

I am beginning to believe that the party establishment is using the junta as a cheap but convenient excuse to scrap some basic party policies.

[molly]

63. I have a friend who is-was

a registered independent who supported McCain last election. He is now supporting Kerry and has vowed to help with his campaign. I can't wait to tell him!

[surfermaw]

64. lleh no, we have on lazy republican now, why do you want another

MCCain finished next to last at West Point..and said he wished he was last, does that remind you of Bush just a little, we don't need McCain when we have a Doctor. a Lawyer who finished in three years while working ungrad school, we have Clark if we want a republican, he at least finished first in his class at Westpoing, and heck Al Sharpton is articulate and could stomp Bush or Cheney in a debate, matter of fact I bet many people would pay to seea debate between Bush and Sharpton

[Donna Zen]

65. thanks for the slur

Anyway, Clark is pro-choice, and women now have nothing to say about any of this, since those in the know--deem our opinions worthless.

So--we now have but one choice, and that is "NO" choice. So say the men over their quiet beers; bow down and let those who know better tell us what is good for us.

[silverlib]

70. I will vote ABB,

The McCain thing worries me. In his selection, would we be saying there were no other worthy Democrats? That we had to go after a Republican? I can't imagine the fallout, but obviously, Kerry is no dummy. He wouldn't take this stretch unless it was well researched. God, I'm confused, but what's new?

On edit - WilliamPitt, I'm used to you answering the questions in my head, not causing me to ask more.

[WilliamPitt]

71. There are plenty of qualified Democrats

This isn't a McCain-or-nothing scenario. But Americans love, crave bipartisanship, and a lot of Americans admire McCain, and he is from the West where Kerry wants to focus in lieu of the South, and a war hero + war hero ticket would blow the doors off.

Ideologically, I don't like it. But raw political geometry says this is a killer ticket.

[silverlib]

75. I will support Kerry, and I agree with you completely

It just raises questions and certainly sets my brain cells in motion. I still see an almost complete cabinet in the Democrats that stood on stage during the primary debates. My initial vote, as I feel your was also, was for DK. I think he has made a huge difference in this race and hope he continues to do so. I will vote for Kerry, no matter what he does at this point. McCain, if chosen, has possibilities and hopefully will "unite" and not "divide." This election will need drastic steps to keep up the momentum of all the Republican money, and this may be that perfect step. It would definitely establish a new dance.

Just a Texas DK supporter going to the Democratic County Convention for Kerry. (and I didn't anticipate that happening either.) Sometimes good things happen, despite us.

[BootinUp]

76. Well, they won't get

my contributions for that ticket. Let all the people who would be :crazy: about it poney up.

[Donna Zen]

77. A killer ticket or how low can you go?

Oh that's right; I'm just a CW typing monkey who isn't worth spit. So much for my rights and my daughter's reproductive rights if the ticket is killer what it stands for or against means nothing.

[Zorra]

79. It's a "killer ticket" alright. It will kill

the Democratic Party. I'm a loyal lifetime yellowdog Dem and I'm ABB right now, but I will absolutely not tolerate a republican running for VP on a Democratic ticket. Talk about alienation!

McCain is at this very moment trying to trash the Baseball Players Union!

As far as I am concerned, people that are republicans are, to put it nicely, ignorant and dysfunctional. You have to be to support this type of fascist ideology. For God's sake, look at what McCain and the republicans have done to our country in the last 3 years!

Are y'all completely nuts?

If McCain is on the ticket, I walk. I'll write in Kucinich. And so will thousands of other Democrats. If Bu$h wins, then so be it. Let him destroy the world. Because when Democrats are really republicans, the game is already over, and the fascists won.

IMO, Kerry can win easily with a solid Democrat as a running mate. Let's stop wasting our time and end this crazy talk of McCain being on the ticket and work on getting all the loyal Democrats that earned and deserve our support into office.

[Caromill]

80. I agree

Very few Democratic voters will feel comfortable voting for a Kerry/McCain ticket. Do we want a Republican that proverbial "heartbeat away" from the presidency? Obviously McCain is one of the less offensive Reps out there, but he's STILL A REPUBLICAN! Only reason I can think of why it even might be considered is to deliver Arizona to Kerry, but I think the Arizona governor (her name escapes me at the moment) and Bill Richardson can do that without McCain on the ticket.

Bad idea in my opinion.

[WilliamPitt]

81. Not to get totally off the subject

but if the Baseball Union cannot bring itself to make sure its players are drug-free, there is something wrong with the Baseball Union.

"We will fight for the right to be stoned, and to use enhancement drugs that totally violate the spirit of the game!"

That's not a union stance I'd take a lot of pride in.

Yes, Virginia, it is possible for a union to be in the wrong on an issue.

[Zorra]

104. Remember when...

it was unheard of, (and wasn't it illegal?) for a workplace to test employees for drugs? When it was a gross violation of privacy and personal rights? If I worked someplace and they made me take a drug test, I would walk out on principle. And I would pass the test.

Wouldn't you agree that it is the responsibility of the union to protect its members, and that it is not their responsibility to police union members or prevent them from making personal choices?

It is the job of republicans to tell us what we should to do with our bodies, not the unions. Like the abortion issue, or the sex issue, or the drug issue. Republicans know best.

[jacksonian]

105. dreaming a little dream

'taint gonna happen. no way. no how. Nobody's seriously considering McCain for anything but forum chatter.

But it's great talk. Believe me, just seeing Kerry and McCain's names together in the news, without a flat "are you kidding/attack Kerry" response from McCain - fantastic politics, I'm impressed.

Just because DU conventional wisdom is wrong doesn't make everything else right.

[DrFunkenstein]

83. PeteNYC Is Hardly a Senior Campaign Guy

Just kidding!

We think you are both the bomb!

[WilliamPitt]

85. It wasn't Pete

:)

[On the Road]

86. Here's What a McCain Selection Might Do:

Start a defection of other disenchanted Republicans from the party.

The GOP is tinderbox of grievances right now. All it may take is a spark. McCain could be a tipping point.

After all, Lincoln did it the second time around. Even dumped his own VP.

[BootinUp]

87. Why can't we do it like

Reagan did it. You're right that there are disenchanted Repugs, a moderate VP and a liberal President with the right timing and the right rhetoric is all we need.

[On the Road]

91. I'm Not Saying McCain is Needed

I was just trying to brainstorm on the possible effects of a McCain VP selection.

Kerry can win in November no matter who he picks -- I am increasingly confident of that. But a McCain selection might be a watershed that could trigger a sea change in party alignment and the balance of power.

There are fed-up Republicans all over the place trying to justify the unjustifiable. Changing party affiliations is a huge step which most people never take. All of a sudden it would be respectable to become a Democrat -- what Republican would be ashamed to follow John McCain? I just think the signs are right for a movement if the conditions are right.

Civil rights legislation cost the Democrats the South. A McCain "Southern Strategy." might win some of it back.

[Meshuga]

88. If it takes a Kerry/McCain ticket to beat Bush...

...Being a hardcore ABB-er I'm all for it! I'm not very fond of McCain especially when during the Iraq war protests he was saying that protesters were being anti-American. I know he doesn't feel this way but he said it just because he lacks balls.

But if giving McCain the most useless job in this country means that Kerry will increase his chances of a win in November then I'm all for it!

We have to double the secret service though because we don't want anything to happen to Kerry. We don't want to get stuck with a McCain. :-)

[Duder]

92. Newsmax must have been drinking the same beer

July 18, 2002 - A Kerry-McCain Ticket in 2004?

[Fleshdancer]

95. great. and if just one freeper goes postal then McCain will be prez

Can we please PLEASE stick with Democratic principles over the lust for winning at all costs? The long term effects of this stinks to me.

[amazona]

97. kerry would have a very short life expectancy

He'd be murdered in months if not weeks. This is just crazy. I realize that Kerry is very courageous and might be willing to risk it but he'd also be putting the lives of the Secret Service staff around him at risk. I honestly can't support this. McCain should switch parties but he should not expect the VP slot as a reward. There are too many crazies out there who would take it as a "nod, nod, wink, wink" that they were supposed to take out Kerry and re-deliver the White House to the GOP.

There are many fine war heroes who are Democrats. If Clark is not interested, there are others. Pick one of them.

[Nadienne]

98. Being as labels don't describe a person accurately

(whereas actions do)

personally, I see no insult in this. The die-hard partisan-all-the-way people on both sides of this fence will be insulted - especially the republicans.

That might be interesting to see.

[BrewerJohn]

103. Count me in the "not no how, not no way" group

I could have shrugged this off as a one-day wild-hair kind of thing, but to see it still going on today is giving me the willies. I'm talking about "stomach dropping through the floor" here, people.

For starters, as other fine DUers have said above, if we can't win as Democrats with Democratic principles, with this bunch in charge, it's already over. Book me on the next flight out.

And McCain has never struck me as anything less than a hardcore Repug. Maybe that's opposed to "ultra hardcore", but it's not a distinction that impresses me a bit. I'm a leftist, and I'm a Democrat because we're not supposed to be like the other side. Try saying "opposition party". It's not that hard.

And here I was thinking we were finally getting back some pride in what we stand for, and taking it to them. Give the people the truth and let them decide, and other phrases. Seems like some of us still haven't gotten over the Fear yet. Check it out--we're leading in the polls. It's time to keep the heat on and not look behind us.