Florida trying a new angle now....make our superdelegates count.

[madfloridian]

Before the rest of the article, I want to say thank you to one of the Florida DNC members, Alan Katz. I so appreciate what he says. He says Florida made a mistake, and it is time to say so.

Katz said his state party's actions backfired.

"It just seems what we did in our strong desire to be part of the process, we effectively made ourselves not part of the process in the most exciting presidential election of my lifetime," Katz said.

Florida Democrats look for loopholes

Thank you, Alan. More people talking like that would go a long way toward the healing here.

Now to the superdelegate thing. Jon Ausman is combing through DNC records in the hopes of finding that they broke the rules. Jon already sued Florida, but he lost because Judge Hinkel said it was too near the primary to change horses...etc.

Apparently it is correct that right now Florida superdelegates don't count. But never fear, Jon is here to save the day for them. Just kidding, sort of...I like Jon...I just think the superdelegates should not count either.

Instead, he's combed the rules of the DNC and found what he says is a violation: The DNC committee that penalized the state for leapfrogging its primary ahead of Super Tuesday did not have the authority to break the rule that says DNC members and Democratic members of Congress, so-called superdelegates, shall be seated as delegates. Florida's Sen. Bill Nelson and Rep. Corrine Brown are among Florida's 22 superdelegates who can support whomever they chose.

And just for your information....here are the two options that the DNC has offered to Florida.

Not so fast, says the DNC. Florida has just two options for reinstating its delegates: hold a caucus before June 11 to allocate delegates or take the dispute to a DNC committee later this summer.

I am sure my state has no intention of going along with either option.

[Kittycat]

1. Why not just let them caucus?

And then the voters that stayed home thinking their voice wouldn't be heard - will get their say. The candidates will also get equal opportunity to present themselves before the FL Public for review.

[Debi]

13. The DNC wants them to - it's the party leaders/superdelegates

who are refusing.

[hedgehog]

2. It would be an injustice indeed if those responsible for disenfranchising the

Democratic voters of Michigan and Florida were themselves seated as delegates! I say no super delegates, either!

[SoFlaJet]

4. it's always so easy

for those that DON'T live here to deride and insult Florida democrats-I was so insulted by the MSM's saying we were just stupid during the 2000 fiasco.

[SoFlaJet]

3. md....

I heard Chuck Todd on Meat the Press this morning saying they might also take a comparative amount of delegates and split them with how the popular vote is going at the time-does THAT make sense? So in other words if country-wide say Obama has 51% and Hillary 49% they will assign the delegates that way. Oh yea MY congressman Robert Wexler is an Obama SD...co-chair of the state for his campaign-Wexler NEVER disappoints...

[Blarch]

17. I heard that.

The delegates would be split even, a total wash...and Florida STILL wouldn't have an effect on the election. But would be counted.

[LittleBlue]

5. It's sad that Florida couldn't play by the rules, and won't take the alternative.

Rulebreakers, when they have been warned, and warned, and warned, have no sympathy for me. The voters do, though. I would suggest the voters demand the resignations of all involved in moving up the primary, and put in competetant leadership.

[tomreedtoon]

26. How many times do I have to tell you...there's NO Florida Democrats!

They are all in the pockets of the Florida Republicans. Have been for the last decade or so. They LAUGHED when this primary violation was approved in the Florida House.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

6. Since when is that a NEW angle - we've been trying for a long time...

It's now an even bigger deal - now that are votes look like they would REALLY make a differenmce - for a change.

[madfloridian]

9. Now they are just pushing for the superdelegates....voters be damned

:shrug:

[NastyRiffraff]

7. Bottom Line: Florida did it to themselves

They knew the rules, had implicitly agreed to them, then violated them after being warned repeatedly what would happen. Now they're offered a way out and refuse?

I'll bet a lot of the Democratic "leadership" in Florida are kicking themselves, but you can't unring that bell. I think caucuses are an answer; not a perfect answer but better than having no delegates seated. That supposedly doesn't favor my candidate, but I think it's the fairest possible solution.

[SoFlaJet]

20. yea but the millions of democratic VOTERS

like us, had NO SAY in what the state party did

[madfloridian]

21. Do you blame the DNC for that? I don't understand what you are saying.

They followed the rules, and Florida did not.

[SoFlaJet]

23. I blame the Florida democratic party

who made the decision to switch our primary that disenfranchised US, the Florida democratic voters

[xxqqqzme]

24. Well, time to get involved w/ your FDP

It is the only way to change it. In CA we have quite a large progressive membershp in the Executive Board of the CDP. It took us 4 years but we did it. A new round of E-Board members get elected this year so our numbers will grow again. You have to start somewhere. When Dean told us where to start, we listened and went to work.

[iamjoy]

8. That Would Be An Outrage

for the Super Delegates (many of whom had a lot more to do with our rogue primary than any of the citizens) to enjoy a prividledge that elected delegates from these states do not may not violate the letter of the rules, but it would certainly violate the spirit. Furthermore, it would almost be like our state leaders who got us into this mess would be saying, "Oh, we got ours, screw you."

I think we need to stop nit-picking over rules and find a compromise that allows our presence at the convention but leaves enough sanctions in place to sufficiently discourage such tactics in the future.

But no, I don't see how we can organize a caucus in Florida - especially this late in the game. We have far more people than any other state which holds caucuses (nearly four times as many as Iowa and over twice as many as Washington, the largest caucus state). A caucus would exclude ex-patriates, people in the military and anyone who has to work the day of the event.

[lurky]

10. If Bill Nelson gets to vote

and his constituents don't. That would be a disaster.

[hedgehog]

11. How about this: Seat the Michigan and Florida delegations

according to new caucuses to be run in June or according to the net results of all the other caucuses or primaries IF

all the superdelegates for those states come out for amnesty for illegal immigrants.

After all, if we waive the punishement for one set of rule breakers, why not another?

[Debi]

12. You mean the very superdelegates that laughed in the face of the DNC's rules?

x( I do feel for the voters of Florida - If they FDP and the superdelegates would have fought to stay on or after Feb. 5th none of this would be happening.

[madfloridian]

16. Yes, those very same folks.

It really is a shame.

[populistdriven]

18. ugh being a progressive and living in FL is difficult

So many D's in my office openly talk about voting for McCain or supporting R. Paul

WMNF is the singular relief to Clear Channel

[Quixote1818]

14. K & R Thanks for an informative post. nt

[madfloridian]

15. Here is a list of FL superdelegates and their endorsements, if any.

http://www.flablog.net/2008/02/fla-superdelegates.htm

Please notice the power players in Florida. My journals on the topic show who was so involved in pushing the early primary scenario.

For Clinton:

Sen. Bill Nelson
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Rep. Alcee Hastings
Rep. Corrine Brown
Rep. Kendrick Meek
DNC Raul Martinez

For Obama:

Rep. Robert Wexler
Allan Katz

Undecided:

Rep. Allen Boyd
Rep. Kathy Castor
Rep. Tim Mahoney
Rep. Ron Klein
Andrew Tobias
Karen Thurman
Rudolph Parker
Terrie Brady
Mitchell Ceasar
Fla. Rep. Joyce Cusack
Diane Glasser
Chuck Mohlke
Janee Murphy

[Me.]

30. Aren't These The Ones Responsible For Creating The Mess In The First Place?

For Clinton:

Sen. Bill Nelson
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Rep. Alcee Hastings
Rep. Corrine Brown
Rep. Kendrick Meek
DNC Raul Martinez

[madfloridian]

31. Yes, they are.

Jon Ausman is really going to push this....he is saying the DNC has no authority to strip congressional Florida superdelgates from voting.

That would include the ones you mentioned. Plus Wexler for Obama.

They are going to push this thing straight through to convention.

"First, Ausman points out that the DNC charter says U.S. senators and members of Congress “shall” be delegates to the convention. So, he reasons, that means Florida Sen. Bill Nelson and nine state Democratic members of Congress “cannot have their status as delegates taken away.”

Second, Ausman argues there also is no provision for the party – or its Rules and By-Laws committee-- to choose not to seat the state’s remaining super delegates who are all themselves members of the Democratic National Committee. That includes Ausman, who has not committed to either Obama or Clinton.

The national party disagrees. And this latest dispute is expected to come to a head on March 1, when the DNC is scheduled to certify the super delegates.

Arguing over Florida’s 22 super-delegates may not seem like much importance in the overall scheme of a race where 2,025 delegates are needed to win the nomination. But then, Obama and Clinton now are separated by just five delegates, Ausman notes."

http://www.mgwashington.com/index.php/2008electionblog/blog_index/can-dems-ban-flas-22-super-delegates/504/

[Me.]

33. The Most Obvious Solution To Me

Get rid of all super delegates

[IndianaGreen]

19. Bush was appointed President by SCOTUS. Why can't Hillary be appointed by superdelegates?

We live in an Orwellian world in which war is portrayed peace, and freedom as slavery. When a leading candidate promises to have troops withdrawn within sixty days, she only means a few, for she has already told NY Times that US will keep a permanent occupation force in Iraq to protect the oil, fight Al-Qaeda, oppose Iran, and defend Israel.

The "Democratic" in Democratic Party could well end up being as meaningless and misleading as the "Democratic" in Democratic Leadership Council.

[Orangepeel]

22. God, that's the WORST possible solution

The State party is responsible for the whole debacle. The worst possible outcome would be for them to get themselves seated and leave out the pledged delegates that were elected in the "primary." I'd prefer letting the pledged delegates vote and making the Florida superdelegates stay home.

[madfloridian]

25. They really made a mess when they voted for this.

And you are right, the state party and legislators all knew what they were doing.

[va4wilderness]

27. I think the campaigning began too early across the USA....

and Fla's and Mich's decisions to push their primaries into JANUARY were emblematic of that. Soon every state would have to move their primaries back - to Dec., Nov., Oct. - who knows. I don't want to see them campaigning two years, three years, four years before the election (which is already beginning to happen). So let Fla. and Mich. re-vote, or award the delegates on a similar proportion to the whole USA, but DON'T simply award the delegates based on those January returns.

[madfloridian]

28. I chuckled at this letter to the editor in the Orlando Sentinel.

Actually I think that has been tossed out...that the 50/50 split is an option by the rules committee in June.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/letters/orl-le11_208feb11,0,5068279.story

"It's time for Chairman Howard Dean to declare that a Florida delegation will be seated at the convention. The punishment has been meted out and we have all been duly chastised.

The Florida delegation should be split 50/50, each delegate pledged to either Clinton or Obama for at least two votes.

Of course, this may be settled by the time of the convention. One or the other candidate may achieve enough delegates to earn the nomination outright. I don't think so, however, and the above recommendation has a good chance of keeping Florida from becoming, once again, the state that can't vote straight.

By the way, I'm an Obamacan"

[Araxen]

29. Hopefully the Floridians..

Vote the idiots that caused this mess in Florida out of office.

[HooptieWagon]

32. NO! to Fla Superdelegates!

I assume most of them supported breaking the DNC rules that disadvantaged Fla rank and file Dems. Why the hell should their votes now count? Fla Dem Party made their bed, now they must be held accountable at their next election. A pox on them...

[Malidictus Maximus]

34. Just a question-

What gave the DNC the right to tell Florida when to have their primary in the first place? I am honestly curious. Seems to me it should be up to each state to do it when and how they want, the only requirement being having their delegates selected by the time of the convention.
Just as with the whole 'superdelegate' thing- I just don't see the reason.
Thank you

[Malidictus Maximus]

35. delete, dupe. sorry

[Malidictus Maximus]

36. delete, dupe, sorry