Gore didn't connect with middle class Americans on class issues.

[AP]

Why? I think Bush was very effective in making Gore look even more privileged than Bush.

If Dean gets nominated, what do you think Bush is going to do with the fact that Dean has been given over a million bucks by his family over the years?

Americans want to vote for someone they think knows where they're coming from.

Bush has captured the feelings of people who want to blame women, immigrants and black people for their circumstances. They also like that a total screw-up who is king of his household should still be entitled to succeed without working hard.

Hopefully, the Democrat will capture the sense that if you work hard, you can get ahead too, and even if there's nobody there to give you a handout, at least the government will lend a helping hand so that you can move up the ladder.

Does Dean capture that sentiment?

[mouse7]

1. In that context, Dumbya makes Gomer Pyle look privileged

Is there some strange dynamic among Dumbya supporters that they like the feeling of being smarter than the person they are voting for?

Maybe. I doubt a study has been done on it.

Personally, I really hope the guy I'm casting a vote for President for is a hell of a lot smarter than me. Smart presidents make me feel much safer than a clueless President could ever equally boost my ego.

[AP]

2. I'm not making an argument about intelligence.

Bush supporters actually believe he's smart because he went to Yale, Harvard and is president.

I'm making an argument about connecting with people based on perceived experience, and I'm talking about relating on the issue of class.

[JI7]

16. true

they don't know much about how the rich can gain access without being qualified that others can't. and not just that he went to yale, harvard etc. but he was one of them, and went there when in reality it was not true. he grew up with money and just about everything handed to him. if he didn't have the name and money he would probably be in prison.

[Metrix]

3. Gore didn't come off as real

In my experience Gore didn't connect with intelligent, professional men who probably voted Democratic, but were completely lacking in enthusiasm for Gore. I saw this over and over among my acquaintances, and still think about the reasons for it. They just did not like him as a man.

[elperromagico]

4. It also helped Bush to pull rural voters.

Gore performed most poorly in the rural areas of the country. I don't think the "good ol' boy" vote can be overstated. A lot of voters want to vote for someone like them, and Bush for whatever reason comes across as the "good ol' boy."

Bush's political strength lies in the small states, and in big states with considerable rural areas. Dean, regardless of what he really is, will be painted by the Bush campaign as a Northeast liberal, and rural Bush supporters will eat it up.

The McGovern/Dean comparisons to me aren't apt at all; Dean is closer to Dukakis, not necessarily in terms of ideology, but as a candidate who can potentially win if he doesn't allow the other side to paint him into a corner. Dean can't afford to let the Republicans create the image of him that voters will carry with them into the voting booth.

[AP]

5. At least Dukakis was an up-from-his bootstraps immigrant from a family

clearly with a great work ethic. Both he and his sister had great careers probably without having to rely on a million dollars in gift income from their parents.

Even JFK was able to offset his priviliged background with the perception that he was the child of a hard working immigrant (but, then again, if America was ever going to elect a playboy, it was in the 60s -- I think the age of finding preppies and playboys appealing politicians has passed, thanks to the shift in demographics).

[Kathleen04]

6. I re-watched one of the 2000 debates..

the other day. I'm not sure that the problem was so much Gore's background as how Bush was able to effectively paint him as being uptight. The Bush message essentially became somewhat like: 'This guy uses all these big numbers and wants control over YOUR money, I want to give YOUR money back to you. He scoffs at my plans, but my plans are better for you'. Gore didn't have any way to counter this in a way that people could relate to..he just started going through facts and figures.

And, Bush was able to pull off a folksy 'I'm from Texas, I can relate to you' attitude. And, Gore didn't help any perceived arrogance factor by audibly sighing through a great deal of Bush's answers.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. Not true

Sorry Kathleen, but more people voted for Gore so I would say the problem was not with him. Until the media spin hit the next morning more people thought Gore won the debate.

PS.. who wouldn't sigh having to debate that lamebrain bush. I am surprized the poor man's eyes didn't roll into the back of his head.

[spooky3]

28. I'm surprised fire didn't start coming out his ears, but

TV is about managing appearances, not honesty and too often, not substance, and he correctly controlled the sighs in the next debate. I do think the sighs hurt him and he would have won by a bigger margin had he managed appearance more perfectly, and had the media not had an agenda, but we'll never know.

[xchrom]

7. gore won the election

he connected with somebody.
54,000 voters illegally kicked to the curb had more to do with the outcome than anything else.
then let's get to the racism behind that action and you really have some meat to chew on.

[Kathleen04]

8. It should have been..

a LANDSLIDE for Gore. The Vice President during 8 prosperous years vs. the bumbling son of a lame ex-President who was an awful Governor.

There was an obvious disconnect between Gore and certain voters.

[xchrom]

11. doesn't change a thing

gore won.
the post is misleading -- gore lost not because he didn't connect -- he lost because of theft and the collaboration of scotus.

[AP]

19. read post 8

[corporatewhore]

9. raising middle class taxes is suicide

lowering them is smart like kucinich

[Hep]

18. Which is why Kucinich does so well in all the polls

Bush talks about lowering taxes and D's cringe. Go figure.

[dolstein]

30. Define "so well"

Is he even out of single digits?

[Hep]

40. It was sarcasm

I never know if I should do the <sarcasm> </sarcasm> thing.

[JI7]

10. i didn' t like the way gore campaigned

i do think gore got more votes and if voting had been fair he would have got florida. but i still didn'tlike many of the things he did such as ignore clinton. i remember during the debates when bush kept the lie that nothing was done during clinton's time in office , gore didn't respond with anything. he just let bush get away with that lie. why not bring up things like the surplus, increased entry into college for students without much money, etc. why did he just stand there and not say anything ?

[Kathleen04]

12. Gore didn't...

embrace the Clinton years, because he didn't want to associate himself with Clinton's sex-scandal or impeachment.

Gore didn't see the big picture. And aside from Florida being stolen, that's what sunk him.

[JI7]

13. also

you can gaurantee the republicans will try to associate the whole clinton sex issues with other democrats anyways,so it's not going to go away. but you can take advantage of it by using the positive to run on. remember, clinton in the end had the people with him, no matter how much the media was whoring for the republicans and how nasty republicans got because clinton's positives always overcame his negatives.

[Kathleen04]

14. Absolutely n/t

[stickdog]

15. Gore connected just fine at the Dem convention. But then he reverted to

school marmy pseudopopulism.

In addition, this has NOTHING to do with Dean OR the 2004 election.

[Hep]

17. Gore won the election

and some folks here have a lot of trouble remembering that. It's OK though, because some of those people don't care enough to maintain any level of intellectual or logical integrity.

Yeah, AP, Dean captures that sentiment. But just like the ghosts in Beetlejuice, you have to have an open mind to see it.

If you don't think Dean has worked hard, maybe you should explain why you don't sonsider how he put himself through medical school, putting in many hours in a Harlem ER, taking night classes after working all day to gain the credits he need to go to medical school in the first place.

You may not care enough to consider any of that, though.

[AP]

20. Well, if Dean captures it as well as Gore, Bush gets a second term.

[Hep]

21. Allow me to repeat

GORE WON THE ELECTION!

If Dean does as well as Gore, Dean will win the election. Because Gore won the election. See how that works?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. He did win, but

it should have been a Johnson/Goldwater style landslide, not a contest that came down to one state's electoral votes.

Put up against an obvious incompetent like Bush, a more adept campaigner would have mopped the floor with him, press bias or no press bias.

I voted for Gore, but when I watched the debates on TV, I was really disappointed at his performance. He missed a lot of opportunities to go after Bush and agreed with him on too many issues, probably out of fear of what the pollsters told him.

Why else would so many voters have been "undecided" the day before the election? That's never happened before.

When one candidate looks relaxed and confident in a debate and the other looks nervous and "cold," the relaxed guy wins. Ask Richard Nixon, ask Mark Dayton in his first Senate run, ask the woman who ran against Janklow for the Senate.

[Hep]

24. Bush is obviously incompetent

But his campaign was a marketing triupmh.

[Cheswick2.0]

26. no it could not have been and should not have been a landslide

I have no idea where that bullshit argument comes from but it has absolutely no facts to back it up. Gore ran against lies on the left and right and a media still snotty because their ineffectual psuedo intellectual darling Bradly got his ass kicked in the primaries.
In addition, had florida not been stolen, Gore's electoral college numbers would have been quite commanding.
Clinton hurt Gore on the left and on the right. If you doubt that just look at the talking points from the Green Campaign was all about judging Gore by Clinton's record.

[Cheswick2.0]

23. he connected just fine

He got more votes than Clinton. If your whole anti-Dean argument here is based on how poorly Gore did with the middle class I think you best go back to the drawing board.

[spooky3]

27. AP, Edwards is our #1 candidate, but

I just don't think most people believe it is relevant how much money a candidate grew up with, if his or her adult behavior and beliefs show a commitment to the right things. I agree with them. I don't think Bush or Dean or Kerry or Ted Kennedy or anyone else should be given demerits simply on the basis of their good luck to have been privileged. In fact I think they provide a perfect example of how differently people with family money and other privileges can evolve.

I have no problem with Edwards' emphasizing his financially modest roots, and it is a very smart strategy for him because he is now very financially successful in an occupation that many are biased against (it preempts those who would ask "what can a rich lawyer know about what I struggle with every day?"). I just don't think people should automatically be categorized based on factors from over which they had no control. They should be judged on what they did in their lives given what resources they had to work with.

[dolstein]

29. Who better than the scion of a wealthy New York family

to win over the hearts and minds of the struggling middle class?

Hey, it worked for FDR didn't it? All Deans needs is the total collapse of our economic system and the re-emergence of an all powerful segregationist political machine ready and willing to deliver the entire South for the Democrats and Dean just might have a fighting chance.

[Larkspur]

32. Unlike Lieberman, Kerry, Gephardt, and Edwards, Dean has worked his butt

this campaign and he earned those endorsements. Andrew Stern gave the same plan to every Dem candidate to win the national SEIU endorsement and ONLY HOWARD DEAN followed Stern's plan, which was meeting with the SEIU local unions and winning their support. Not even far leftwing hero Dennis Kucinich put the effort into winning this union's endorsement. MoveOn.org offered their Internet grassroots consulting services to every Dem candidate and only Howard Dean took them up on it.

There is no mystery why Dean is leading -- he earned the respect and loyalty he won from his legions of supporters.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

34. heh

how very iconoclastic of you! :evilgrin:

[CWebster]

31. When Gore stopped listening to the DLC

he started to sound better and found his footing. Once he found his voice he spoke out with new resolve and focus.

Kerry certainly doesn't connect and Edwards is a millionaire trial lawyer- the group more commonly and most successfully demonized by the Right. Your argument is on shaky ground.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

33. We don't need Kerry or Dean when we have Gephardt, Edwards, and Clark

We have so many good candidates we really don't need aristocratic rich people to "step in" and save us. Edwards, Gephardt, Clark, Kucinich and even Moseley-Braun are all "electable" and with a united Democratic party behind them can easily beat Bush.

Dean's campaign is great, and exactly what we need - democracy in action (in a certain sense). Whoever wins the nomination must use Dean's organization and tactics if they want to win the general election. Kerry is probably one of our best Senators ever. Give these guys a watch and a pension and let's elect a true representative of the people of the United States. From now until the convention I'm ABDK and right now DK gets my vote.

[poskonig]

35. **Ah** will faght fer yoo vs. YOU have the power

Gore came off arrogant and paternalistic because his approach was that way. Dean's campaign has the same grassroots idea Gore was trying to get across (people vs. special interests) but is executed far more efficiently.

[corporatewhore]

36. Dont misunderstand my post

Gore came off as an ivyleauge boring automaton lets face it he wasnt that charismatic

[w4rma]

37. To some, but not to others. Somebody will *always* find a problem with

our candidate. I think folks need to stop looking for the perfect candidate, and accept that all of them have flaws unique to them.

[corporatewhore]

38. just tryin to guess why he didnt connect to middle class

[TexasSissy]

39. Nope. Dean's a blueblood, same as Bush.

[jsw_81]

41. Nonsense

Al Gore won the popular vote by over 500,000. He did just fine and only "lost" because of that ridiculous Supreme Court ruling.

And believe me, Bush wouldn't even dream of attacking Dean's comfortable early years. Why? Becuase the Bush family is about ten times richer and much more elite than Dean's family ever was.