Independent voters HATE partisanship...

[Barack_America]

That's why they've declared themselves "Independent" from either party.

Given that, why do you think they would vote for Hillary over McCain? When has the name "Clinton" ever been associated with non-partisanship?

Given that Obama frequently talks about ending partisanship, and has few ties to Bush and his failed policies, is it any wonder that Independents are flocking to him, even over McCain?

Do you think that a Democrat can be elected without the support of Independents?

Discuss.


Thanks! :hi:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

1. How do they feel about a 100 year Iraq war?

[Bluerthanblue]

3. that wasn't the question- try addressing the partisanship issue-

and add to that that if Hillary wins it will most likely be due to partisanship at the DNC with 'Super Delegates'/

The OP poses a very important question.

peace~

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. I guess it's my natural tendency to resist labeling ANY group with a single thought process.

I've heard myself, as a Kucinich then Edwards supporter, labeled in variety of ways by televised talking heads and posters on DU, and those descriptions were mostly wrong, so I have little belief that independents all feel a certain way.

on edit, clarity

[Barack_America]

7. The exit polls thus far have supported this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4460428

Well, we talk about the "Black", "Latino", "White" and "Women" votes...ad nauseum on DU. Why not also the Independent vote?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

8. Exactly. We, well I try not to, categorize and box people into categories.

Yet, in my non online world, the people I know are complex and not easily pigeon holed.

My friend's husband who watches O'Riley and yet is now a fan of Michael Moore.

My coworker who has an in depth understanding of biochemistry, yet does not know who Edwards or Kucinich or Biden are.

My Mexican friend who struggles with the dichotomy of personally supporting tougher immigration reform.

Each is registered as unaffiliated.

So, in the future I'll just let the "all this group feels exactly this way" posts go by without comment.


And, I feel that the Republican party has successfully played and recruited certain types of thinking and feeling and reacting, rather than certain people.

[Barack_America]

10. Well, case in point...

I'm a woman and yet I have no interest in voting for Hillary.

But I will grant that groups do tend to lean in a certain direction.

And there have now been several polls that suggest the preference of people self-identifying as "Independent" is Obama > McCain > Hillary.

Given that holds for a general election, what does that tell us as Democrats?

[Bluerthanblue]

9. I can understand that- and agree, grouping people

by any kind of classification is never really accurate, or productive, but nevertheless it is done all the time.

I don't mesh with most demographic estimates, but I do think that there is some merit in what the OP is pointing out.

It is something to consider,and worth discussing.


I think some of the powerful draw that Obama has for Independents and those on the edges of both parties speaks to the desire to not have more polarization. No matter how you slice it, Hillary is a very polarizing candidate.-


peace~

[Barack_America]

11. If it were one poll, I wouldn't mention it.

But we have now seen numerous exit polls that tell us that Independents prefer Obama to Hillary.

And there are now enough national match-up polls that really have me thinking that Independents will make a difference in an Obama vs. McCain or Hillary vs. McCain matchup. It really doesn't bode well for Hillary in a GE, IMO.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. spot on

just another in the looooooooooooong ass list of reasons to vote for Obama.

[Fresh_Start]

4. I'm a lifelong non-affiliated voter, I'd vote Hillary over McCain

without any hesitation at all

[smartvoter]

6. This is the biggest issue.

I personally think Hillary could be a solid president on a level playing field, as would Obama. I genuinely am in the camp that really would be happy with either.

However, I am pulling for Obama simply because Hillary -- fair or not -- is incredibly divisive. How can a president get anything done if there are people on the other side of the aisle that quite literally will be booted by their own constituents for going along with anything she does? I don't like it, but I think it's reality.

With Obama, there would be pressure and risk in standing up to a "movement," whereas with Hillary the pressure would be (already is) opposite. Obama may eventually be demonized to the point that it's the same, but he at least has an opportunity to avoid it, and we need reversals and scraps-and-rebuilds in too many areas for vehement opposition to the next president to be considered "trivial."

I've mostly been reading and not posting much to avoid getting in the primary wars around here, but I think you're right on, and it has implications beyond the election itself -- clearly a bigger challenge vs. McCain for Hillary -- and into the post-election, assuming McCain is defeated.

edit: clarity

[Barack_America]

12. Partisanship and what happens after the election because of it...

...Is also a very, very valid issue to discuss. Keeping a Democrat in the WH and also keeping Democratic majorities in Congress greatly hinges on the President's first-term success (assuming that we elect a Dem this year).

Who has a better chance to get more done quickly? Obama or Hillary? I believe Obama, for the reasons you mentioned.

[smartvoter]

14. It definitely is. nt

[Cosmocat]

13. That is exactly where I am at ...

I have a LOT of republican friends, and they have literally lost any level of reason in relation to Hillary ... I mean, their hearts are so scared to the point where they can not differ the rationale from the irrational with her ... They just hate her with a burning vengence ...

I think she would make a fine president ... She is the smartest, toughest and most determined candidate ...

But, any campaign with her as our candidate would be the bloodiest campaign in our lives, and her presidency would nonstop BS ... NONSTOP ... 35% of the county would be vocal in it's opposition, and buy every last bit of crape that got thrown around about her ...

Be it mysongeny, be it partisanship, be it actual things she has done ... Be it fair or not, be her fault or not ... It just is the way it is ...

Obama's candidacy would at least offer the hope of reasoned discussion ...

[TexasObserver]

15. We must get independents. We can't get them with Hillary.

[hayu_lol]

16. Indies are trying so hard to remain pure and untouched by partisanship...

that they have all forgotten a few things: The Constitution and SCOTUS. MUGWUMPS are like that.

Ummm, the devil is really in the details.