Where do your candidate stand on Sen.Rockefeller admission Dems will legalize UNIVERSAL wiretapping?

[Leopolds Ghost]

Direct quote by Rockefeller on the need for, not just retroactive
immunity for, but legalization of universal warrantless wiretapping
on all US long distance networks, which is provided by this bill
according to Sen. Rockefeller:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2833683

I.e. wiretapping of all US citizens whose calls and e-mails are routed thru
long-distance telecom networks (all the major ones) and filtered for suspicious content,
as the NSA has been doing illegally under the Bush administration (and under the
Clinton administration before it, which is why Congressional Dems are so desperate to
legalize Bush's actions.)

The vote is on Tuesday, timed for the distraction of the Beltway primary.

There has been no discussion of this in the MSM OR on the blogs, infested as they are
with paid campaign operatives who are only just now beginning to understand how to
manipulate sites such as this one to benefit the interests of the party machine, which
has sought for 20 years to legalize the NSA activities at Fort Meade and elsewhere.

Here is the most important thread on DU, the one you guys are ignoring:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2833683


More news: Reid wants this bill so badly, Bush and Repubs are now threatening to OPPOSE
the bill if they don't get extra bennies thrown in. Because it is seen as a bill that Pelosi,
Reid and Rockefeller -- not to mention Clinton and Obama, who have not spoken out about it
on the campaign trail -- desperately want and "cannot afford" to not pass because "damaging
information" would surely come out if the claims were made in court, according to Rockefeller
and also according to posters right here on DU who have spoken out in favor of the bill.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2822188

So, On the Topic of Tuesday's Primaries: Where do your candidates stand
now that filibustering is no longer an option and both Dodd and Feingold
have rolled over?

[texastoast]

1. I can't decide

if I want to fuck with them or just go cut cables.

Oh, gosh, now I'm probably on the terrorist list.

What we all gotta understand and act on, is that ultimately, WE are the deciders.

[Leopolds Ghost]

3. That is where the Domestic Radicalization Act comes in.

Right now it is legal, for instance, to fuck with the software
used by security agencies by raising false alarms on the
(secretly monitored) public network, as netroots libertarians
are wont to do by stringing together filtered code words in
their sig files, since the illegal monitoring (wiretapping is
a stupid word for it that DU has ignorantly adopted) filters
are already in place. Once the universal wiretap (monitoring
of domestic communications on long distance networks) law is
passed, you will be actively put under scrutiny as a
"domestic radical" for illegally stringing together code words
and thereby interfering with actual terrorist surveillance
(which could of course be achieved by other means, but the
universal wiretap law will allow surveillance filters to call up
data on ANY citizen for ANY potential reason so long as the
"original target of interest" is located abroad.)

[texastoast]

4. I do think I might move out

But then again, this might be fun. I know a lot of "domestic radicals."

:evilgrin:

[CoffeeCat]

2. I talked with Obama about this...

I guess Obama calls supporters and undecideds, in the states he's campaigning.

I was fortunate enough to get a call from him, during the Iowa caucus campaign season.

I told him I was "undecided" and leaning Edwards, and we had a nice conversation. He
wanted to know what I was concerned about, and one of the things I mentioned was the
illegal wiretaps.

Obama told me (and I am paraphrasing) that he is adamantly against Bush's illegal
wiretaps and his circumventing of the FISA courts. Obama said it was illegal and it
is something that he would not engage in, during his administration. I asked him if
he was against illegal wiretaps, what about the telcos who had gone along with Bush?
Obama said he was against immunity for the telcos and that he would vote
NO to giving them retroactive immunity.

That's exactly what Obama did. He voted "No" on that bill, to give the telcos
retroactive immunity.

This led to a further discussion about our basic civil rights and our Constitution
being disrespected. I told Obama that there was a grave disconnect between "We
The People" and our current government. I said I felt that "I didn't matter",
because the current government was usurping the basic framework that our forefathers
laid down--which protects our rights and keeps the government in check.

It turns out--that Obama is a Constitutional Scholar. I mean...I nearly fell off my chair
as he discussed this. Why he doesn't tout this more, if beyond me. But anyway... He
spent a decade teaching college students Constitutional Law, and other law classes. He
has an encyclopedic knowledge of the Constitution, and he respects our Constitution. He
is against George Bush's contempt for the rule of law and how he has governed.

Obama would uphold the Constitution, because he respects the power that he has--but also the
power that he is not supposed to have. He wants to end illegal wiretaps, close Guantanamo,
end torture, end government secrecy and closed-door negotiations where Americans are left
wondering what is going on.

That's a long answer....but I thought everyone might find the information useful.

I have no reason to doubt that he would fight to end illegal wiretapping, as the President,
and I have every reason to believe that he will continue to fight against it.

[hedda_foil]

5. And that is a BIG reason why I so strongly support Obama.

He understands, loves and respects the Constitution in a way that ordinary, successful lawyers cannot because they don't have much training in Constitutional law, if they have any. In many law schools, Con Law is not a required course.

Of all the incredible list of needs we have, I believe the restoration of the Constitution must be first and foremost. I know that Obama will do it. I don't think Hillary will work anywhere near as hard or as knowledgeably, to fix the damage that * and Cheney have done to our Constitution.

To me, this is a HUGE defining difference between them.

[Leopolds Ghost]

7. Unfortunately thru no fault of Hillary's this program was already under way under Clinton

Bush merely opened himself up to impeachment charges by admitting its
existence and attempting to legalize it.

Now Dems are preparing to DO exactly what Bush committed possibly his only impeachable offense by ASKING them to do.

[Leopolds Ghost]

6. What would the consequences be if Obama made this an issue on the campaign trail?

What if Obama activists made it a campaign issue on sites like DKos and GD: Politics?

Right now, thanks to the primaries there has been zero threads on "Dodd"
and ten threads on "FISA" (most with zero replies) on GD -- despite the
fact that Harry Reid promised to take this issue up after Christmas and
is doing so after all the ruckus DUers raised... not just last year but
in 2006 when DU had 300 post count threads talking about how Dems would
surely impeach Bush FOR warrantless wiretapping -- possibly his biggest
crime. Instead Dems are fighting to LEGALIZE it, as I predicted when I
read what Rockefeller had to say in 06.

Attacking Clinton on it is unnecessary, since it is highly likely that the
entire Dem establishment will turn on Obama and simultaneously attempt to
"mainstream" this bill by portraying Obama's opposition to it (if he is
indeed sincere) as radical and unacceptable opposition to a bipartisan
reform, if he takes a principled stand on the campaign trail.

Better to take a stand and attack the bill and let Clinton make a choice
to lead/follow or side with Rockefeller, Bush, Reid and Mikulski against
the Constitution and in favor of Bush's crimes (which Bill Clinton, not to
mention Kerry and others were unfortunately aware of, since the NSA has
been doing this program for quite awhile. That is why it and the NSA are
still considered a black op despite their size and the open secret nature
of the operation, because it is still illegal).

The process of mainstreaming fascist acts (phrases like "culture war"
and "homeland") is done using the Overton window of Political Possibility,
so named for the right-wing Atwaterite think tank who invented it.

Here is an illustration from a right-wing blog posting by a
Republican operative:

[Leopolds Ghost]

8. Look at just how few people care about this anymore

The people who wanted to impeach Bush over this are hypocrites -- when
the Democrats vote to legalize Bush's wiretapping of all Americans
retroactively and in the future, to permanently shield him
from prosecution, they say nothing.

Nothing!

[Leopolds Ghost]

9. Still no interest

futile bump