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Where is the evidence for the claim that Obama would lose CA to McCain, while

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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 06:52 PM
Original message
Where is the evidence for the claim that Obama would lose CA to McCain, while
Clinton somehow wouldn't? I have seen this claim stated on here by a number of posters, but I am just wondering where the substance is to back it up?

It seems to be premised on the fact that Clinton does substantially better with Latino voters in the primaries than Obama. Somehow this translates to millions of Latino voters being flat-out opposed to an Obama nomination and going as far as to swing to McCain and give CA, a state that voted for both Al Gore and John Kerry by a substantial margin, to the Repugs.

Apologies if this has been discussed to death and I missed it, or if there is some commonly-known piece of evidence demonstrating Latino voters saying that they would vote for Clinton over McCain, but swing to McCain were Obama to get the nomination. If this exists, I would like to see it. However, most seem to be basing the claim on the idea that Latinos are unwilling to vote for black candidates for office. While there may be evidence showing that this has been the case in certain past elections, is there evidence that it is always or almost always the case? I'd be particularly interested in any CA poll showing match-ups between Clinton vs. McCain and Obama vs. McCain that break down for the demographics of voters, and show Obama doing substantially worse with Latinos with McCain picking them up.

FWIW, after a quick search for recent California polls showing head-to-heads between the Democrats and McCain, the first one I came across shows Obama doing slightly better than Clinton against McCain, although the results for both are too damn close for comfort for CA, in my view. If Obama really is lacking in support from Latinos, he seems to be compensating for it by gaining ground with other voters that Clinton is not. (And yes, the poll being cited is certainly questionable, considering it predicted the CA Dem primary outcome being much closer than it actually was. Still, if Obama is as unpopular among Latinos as some on here seem to suggest, I would think even a flawed poll would be able to demonstrate this lack of support among a group of people whom I believe make up 35%+ of the state's population.)

>>>>Clinton now clings to a bare 45 to 43 percent lead over McCain in a projected California presidential vote, down dramatically from her 17 percentage point margin just two weeks ago. Obama now holds a stronger 47 to 40 percent margin over the Arizona senator, but that's only half the 14 percentage point advantage he had in mid-January.>>>>>

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/03/MNF7UR6FE.DTL&tsp=1

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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, damn...
I guess the overwhelming flood of evidence I've received in response to this post answers my question.
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. All right, GD: P- I humbly admit that I have been schooled.
Thank y'all for the responses!
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have no empirical evidence to offer, but ...
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 07:43 PM by Laelth
I am quite fond of this quote from Hawaii Hiker which appeared in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4446393#4446541

No Democrat will lose California - it absolutely will not happen

There is a better chance of Shaquille O'Neal playing for the New England Patriots next year than a Republican winning CA. in November....

Obama almost had more votes than McCain & Romney COMBINED yesterday & he was second to Clinton....

Hell, Paris Hilton would probably win California....


Hope that helps. :toast:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--deleted redundant material.

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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thank you for the response
And I tend to agree that it would take something pretty out of the ordinary for either Clinton or Obama to lose CA. :toast:

I mostly just posted out of frustration with the folks who keep making the claim that somehow Obama makes the state vulnerable to a McCain victory. I'm doubtful that they have anything beyond wishful thinking to back up their claims.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. A surveyusa poll
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 10:55 PM by jackson_dem
Obama also loses New York and Massachusetts, not to mention swing states like Ohio and Missouri.
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The most recent CA head-to-head I could find from Survey USA
Shows both beating McCain, although with Clinton by significantly more substantial margin.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportPopup.aspx?g=7f401041-7f0c-4576-86ca-adbe0a08fb9c&q=40146

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportPopup.aspx?g=7f401041-7f0c-4576-86ca-adbe0a08fb9c&q=44325

Is there something more recent?

Also, is there any evidence of the massive swing to McCain by Latinos that an Obama candidacy is being alleged to cause?
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