Kerry/Clark is DU's landslide choice for President/VP

[Cronus Protagonist]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=442429&mesg_id=442429&page=

Lots of strategic arguments were put forth, and the prevailing wisdom is that Kerry/Clark is Democratic Underground's choice for the President and Vice President candidates at this time.

Perhaps we should make it an official endorsement and get it out into the media so that Kerry can have a free "trial balloon" - and we could see what the world at large thinks of that.

[bowens43]

1. Well let's hope that Kerry has more sense then DU.

If we're going to put a Repug on the ticket,we should go with McCain.
He at least has relevant experience, a proven track record , consistent and realistic views on the issues, and he isn't a neo-con.

71 votes out of 40623 users is hardly a landslide.

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. 70%+ is a landslide.

Well within the margin of error, even with a small sample. And if you think 40623 users use DU I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. (just kidding about the bridge)

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[Mairead]

3. 71 out of 1000 is hardly a landslide either

And there are a thousand (see the most recent fundraising)

[Jai4WKC08]

16. But reflects non-DU voting trends

Living in Kansas, I'm most familiar with the MO primary, where only some 10% of registered Democrats (not even the voting population at large) voted in the primary. Don't know if other states were that way, but I suspect so--our nominee selected by such a relatively small percentage of the population.

I would expect the GE to have a larger turnout this year than usual, but it will still be far fewer than those eligible to vote. Which is sad.

You can't force people to vote, and you probably wouldn't want people who don't care to vote anyway. But it's sad more people don't care.

I know I tried to generate some interest with co-workers back in November. They didn't even know who was running--only one guy had heard of Dean, and not a one of them had heard of any of the others except Lieberman since he'd run as VP in 2000.

But their attitude was pretty much, when the final two are decided, I'll pick one to vote for. And these are NOT die-hard Republicans, but total middle-of-the-roaders--not people who have already decided on Bush. And they are fairly educated too (one CPA, the others college-grad accountants). Way too typical of the average American, I'm afraid. To tell the truth, I suspect about half won't vote in November either.

[boxster]

18. That's irrelevant. Since when are non-voters included in results?

Uh, that would be: never. I don't recall anyone saying "Al Gore received about 25% of the vote in the 2000 election. Oh, if you count people who DIDN'T VOTE."

Clark has received close to 60% of the vote in that poll - and there were many choices provided. Reagan's win in 1984 is commonly called a landslide - he received about 59% of the vote, with only one significant opponent.

[Mairead]

20. It's in the interests of the rulers to ignore people who don't vote

since they don't really want people to start thinking about why people sit out an election.

Is it in our interests?

[boxster]

21. What does that have to do with the term "landslide"?

Your assertion was that "71 out of 1000" was not a landslide.

First, 71 out 1000 is meaningless. You're assuming that the other 929 people would have voted for someone other than Clark. You know no more about how the other 929 of your claimed 1000 would vote than we do.

I'll take real results over made-up ones any day, thanks.

[Mairead]

22. Work on it a bit, why don't you.

[boxster]

24. Ah, condescension.

Ah, you resorted to condescension. How nice for you. Your logic must just so much better than the rest of us that you don't even have to explain it.

Are those other 929 people *all* going to vote for someone other than Clark? Of course they aren't. If you can't see that, neither I nor anyone else can help you.

Your argument makes no sense. It's like saying that Al Sharpton should have won NY because we know every single person who didn't vote in the primaries would have voted for Al and no one else.

[Mairead]

43. When you ask a disingenuous question, you invite being told that you

already know the answer.

Calling 154 votes a 'landslide' when fewer than 30% of the population bother to vote is on a par with Bush claiming that he had a mandate--he did, but only from the Five Felons, which is not the definition of 'mandate' in the context of elections.

Except to Media Inc, in whose interest it is to claim everything is peachy keen, 15% support against 15% opposition and 70% apathy is not 'a landslide'.

[boxster]

52. Those are completely irrelevant comparisons.

A landslide is a landslide, regardless of the number of people that vote. Ignoring the results because we didn't have 100% turnout is one of the most ludicrous arguments I've ever seen.

The turnout in some of the primaries was around 10%. So, are you saying that Kerry's 50-60% performances in some of those states wouldn't be considered a landslide? I guess we should just ignore those results because not everyone voted.

Yeah, right. That's ridiculous.

[Cronus Protagonist]

55. Boxster, one cannot educate the willfully ignorant

It's one of the problems we have with the other side - there's no way to puncture that which simply amounts to uncontained hot air.

And by the way, for the mathymatixions among us, the polling now is still accurately representing the initial results, and therefore the reality that Kerry/Clark is the pick of DU by a landslide.

I stand vindicated on my initial assessment of the early returns.

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[wyldwolf]

5. If you're going to call Clark a republican, I suggest you prove it...

...you wouldn't want anyone to see dents in your credibility, would you?

[Leilani]

14. If he's going to call Clark a Republican

than he really should study his facts about Republicans.

John McCain is not a Neo-Con? John McCain led the floor fight in the Senate to go to war in Iraq, on behalf of the NeoCon wing of the Republican Party.

Maybe someone should know what a NeoCon is & who are NeoCons, before flinging around labels.

[Scoopie]

32. Thank you wydlwolf

Being an independent myself, I don't know that I consider being called a Republican a horrible thing: after seeing the milqutoast coming out of the mouths of Richardson, Graham and Rendell this morning on Face the Nation, I'm not sure I'd want to be an establishment Democrat.
However, Clark's appareance on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer showed what Dems can do if they USE the damaging information about Bushco. that's been presented to them.
I don't remember his actual words, but Clark basically said that Bush can use the footage from 9/11 in his ads if he wants to but he'd better be prepared that, by bringing that issue to the forefront, then Dems SHOULD use how little Bush did to actually keep that from happening against him.
Clark also added that we won't be seeing Iraq in Bush's ads any time soon.
I was ROFLMAO!
Sic 'em Clark!

By the way, why is someone a Republican because they voted for one back when I was 6 years old? Reagan was a Democrat and no one used that against him.

[Adelante]

7. Why continue?

The lie that Clark is a Republican has been thoroughly disputed so many times on DU, it's pathetic to see it still cropping up. What is the point? What does anyone get out of it? Does it have any effect at all anymore except to make its propogators look ridiculous? The man was the keynote speaker at a sold out, standing room only state Democratic dinner just the other night, where he represented John Kerry. His frigging TIE was auctioned off for $3500 to benefit the Democratic Party. Pre-dinner, he maxed out a $1000 a person fundraiser for Kerry at a private home. This is only one night, mind you. He is second only to Kerry himself in raising funds for Kerry. What more do we need to know?

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. Whenever I see someone call Clark a "repug"

I don't even have to look at the username.....bowens43 is always the one still spewing the RW rhetoric.

Go Wes! I hope the rest of the country thinks as we do. :loveya:

Don't forget to watch Clark on Face The Nation (on NOW in the East) and Wolf Blitzer's Late Edition at 11:00 Central.

[BootinUp]

9. I don't have to look either

all I see is Ignored.

:hi:

Good morning Clarkies

[Adelante]

10. Good morning, Clarkies

:loveya:

Great TV day in the morning!

[Leilani]

12. Good Morning & Aloha Clarkies!!

It's 5:30 AM in the Islands, but I'm up & ready to see Wes's round of morning show appearances.

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. Good Morning Clarkies!

I can't wait to see and hear our guy! :bounce: :bounce:

[Crunchy Frog]

29. I wish I could say that.

Thanks for saying it for me. My post wouldn't last long if I did say it. Actually it probably won't anyway, just watch and see.:)

[BootinUp]

37. hmmmmmm

:)

[incapsulated]

15. nah, it makes me nostolgic...

for the old days... :)

 
 

[boxster]

17. It's just another hit and run.

You'd think that the bitterness would subside. Guess not.

Besides, it's easier to post the same unsubstantiated claims than to actually have a meaningful dialogue.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. Well that settles it then.

auctioning off a tie, fundraising and stumping for Kerry. How diabolical! What more proof do I need that he's really a Republican. He totally had me fooled. Thank God I found out before I donated a bunch of....oops, damn!x(

[Renew Deal]

11. You're still saying this stupid stuff.

Yep, he is a republican. What crap.

[LuLu550]

23. If you actually read any of Clark's position papers

you would know he is actually more progressive and left-leaning than Kerry. I think they are still posted on Clark04.com.

[cosmokramer]

27. Boy, what a hateful thing to say.

Do I need to link you to the FEC records where he donated money to democrats WAY BEFORE he was a candidate?

Do I need to dig through my links to show you pictures of General Clark with Clinton, Max Cleland, and many other prominent democrats. He is close personal friends with Bob Graham, and Graham never once questioned General Clark's loyalty to the democratic party. Is Graham a neo-con too? Or Clinton?

Gimme a friggin' break!

[Crunchy Frog]

39. It's just par for the course here at DU

There a couple of people who will repeat the same crap over and over and over, every chance that they get.

It gets very tiresome, but certain of the *features* provided by DU can be very helpful.:)

Otherwise, it's just something you'll have to get used to.

[mariawells]

30. Get with it.

Get with the program. Nobody has called Clark a Republican in months. That's old news buddy. Clark has proven time and time again that he's a Democrat through and through. Who's out there campaigning for Kerry, huh? Dean? No. Edwards? No. Clark? Yes. Who was on Blitzer this morning standing up against Bush's ad? Dean? No. Edwards? No. Clark? Yes.

Wes Clark will do whatever it takes to get Bush out of the White House. He's given up his retirement for our country. He's given up his long overdue time with his wife, son, and new grandson, for me and for YOU. His running has and will continue to allow the Dems to call Bush on the carpet for using national security as a political issue. You owe him a debt of gratitude. Your calling him names is inexcusible.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. Oh no! DU is being invaded by Clarkies!

Yet again! It's the Clarkie Zombie Army! There goes the neighborhood for sure now. :o

Just kidding, welcome to DU. If you can take the occasional hysteria, this is a pretty nice place to hang out.:hi:

[Adelante]

44. Get it straight, Crunch

Clarkie Zombie Jackboot Thug Army

Oh, we're just terrible :grouphug:

[LandOLincoln]

51. You go, girl! And welcome to DU. Hope you've got your flame-

proof suit handy. :bounce:

[newyawker99]

56. Hi mariawells!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[dogman]

35. Just like Mondale.

He happens to think the best person getting the Dem message out is Clark. He, like Clark, now supports Kerry. I would say anyone proposing McCain is definitely a Republican. McCain is a disgrace to himself. To take what he did from the NVA and then lay down for Bush is one of the most repulsive things I have ever seen. Dems calling Clark a Repug is a close second.

[HuskerDem]

49. Still on that tired old thing are we?

:boring:

[izzie]

4. Did anyone think of this Ford? This guy will move up

so wonder if we will get it right?

[BootinUp]

6. Harold Ford? He is only 33 yrs old

You have to be 35 to be a Vice President or President.

[MessiahRp]

25. Harold Ford Jr. is a future superstar in the party

He may be too young now but look out, this guy is amazing and he's going to be leading Democrats in the not too distant future.

Rp

[BootinUp]

26. He has always caught

my attention, when I have seen him on the tube. I agree he is very impressive and intelligent and appealing. We need more like him.

[cosmokramer]

28. I adore him!

He is really going to be one of the brightest and best democrats to come our way in a long time.

At 33, he is just beginning. I will so enjoy watching that young man grow in his career. He's easy on the eyes too! ;)

[Scoopie]

33. Harold Ford Jr.

I wish I could link this directly, but I can't.
So, in any case, go here: http://geocities.com/scoop1_2/clarkforpresident and scroll down.
General Clark AND Harold Ford Jr. - talk about a night full of hotties. Yummy!
:9
Sometimes it's great to be in Tennessee!

[Crunchy Frog]

42. I wish that Wes Jr. would run for office.

I think he would be great. Maybe we should start a Draft Wes Jr. for Congress movement.:7

He would then be ideally positioned to run for President in 20 years.

[HFishbine]

19. 5 wee Sunday morning hours

Puhleeeze.

[Cronus Protagonist]

54. How about now?

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[frank frankly]

34. yes yes and yes

he was magnificent on CNN today!

he is an essential part of defeating the fascists!

[robbedvoter]

36. I certainly voted for him. I want to hear more of this:

CLARK: Well, I don't think it's right to use those images that divide the families. But I would say this, Wolf, that if this does become the issue in the campaign, there will be many of us who will point out that this administration did not do everything it could have done prior to 9/11.

We still don't have the results of the 9/11 commission. The White House is still quarreling and quibbling with providing a full disclosure of everything they knew and what they did before 9/11.

And, you know, one of the things I always saw in any large organization is it's not just the people in the middle, it's the people at the top that have to participate in getting a grip on what went wrong.

As Americans, we deserve an answer to what went wrong that enabled Osama bin Laden and the terrorists to come in and conduct the attacks of 9/11. If that does become the issue, I think it's a loaded gun pointed right back at the White House.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/07/le.00.html


and less of W's great leadership on 9.11 as I did from the 3 stooges on FTN, or OBL=Saddam from that other John.
So, if you want the 9.11 liability, the wrongness of the war mentioned this election, this is your guy.

[WilliamPitt]

38. ...which makes it, in all likliehood, the worst idea ever

based on the normal standards of 'DU Conventional Wisdom.'

Nothig against Clark, of course.

[FrenchieCat]

40. Lighting....

doesn't always strike twice..

The Media was wrong about Dean being the nominee...as was DU

The Media was right about Kerry being the nominee...but not DU

The Media is not touting Clark as VP..But Clark is winning on DU...

Maybe there is not real pattern.

[Adelante]

45. Heh

Too true. Anybody who wants Clark for VP should be wishing the DU vote go ABC.

[julialnyc]

46. He's a mighty good choice!

[welshTerrier2]

47. DU Wisdom ??

you want to make your argument for Clark as VP based on a DU poll ??

are you kidding ??

is this the same DU that overwhelmingly supported Clark and Dean during the primaries ?? it's not that I would either support or not support Clark as VP ... but DU does not seem to have much history backing winners ... at least not during the primaries ...

i would hate to see DU endorse anyone but the eventual nominees ...

[HuskerDem]

48. Awesome Idea! I love Kerry/Clark

Kicks Georgies 'weak on defense" right in the ass.

[Auntie Bush]

50. Me too ...a heavy medal ticket! n/t

[Cronus Protagonist]

53. 162 votes for Kerry/Clark - I think we have a winner!

Thus sayeth DU.

KERRY/CLARK 2004

A Poem for Each & Every Day

May you have:

Enough happiness to keep you sweet
Enough trials to keep you strong
Enough sorrow to keep you human
Enough hope to keep you happy
Enough failure to keep you humble
Enough success to keep you eager
Enough friends to give you comfort
Enough wealth to meet your needs
Enough enthusiasm to look forward
Enough faith to banish depression
Enough determination to make each day better than yesterday!