I am disgusted. I am angry. I am going to vote for Hillary Clinton.

[Writer]

You've done it. I can't even begin to annunciate just how furious I am with many of the posters in this forum. I have never seen such hate. I have never seen such embittered enmity carried to the point where sexist insinuations are justified. You disgust me. You disgust me to the point where I absolutely, under NO circumstances, will vote for Barack Obama tomorrow in my state. And I will be sure that my husband does the same and that every caucus goer does as well.

The reasons for voting AGAINST Hillary Clinton are underwhelming, vindictive, and petty. To take pictures of her CRYING - showing HUMAN EMOTION - then using that as a reason for her somehow being UNFIT is despicable.

The reasons to vote FOR Hillary Clinton were made evident to me in the last debate.

You are an abomination to this party, to this era, and to women in this country.

I am now a committed Hillary Clinton supporter.

~Writer~

[MethuenProgressive]

1. I'll k&r that.

:kick:

[liberalmike27]

295. Well

It's all about whether you buy the whining, or you see it as an attempt to get votes. Besides, if the crying is sincere, it's more about " This was supposed to be my toy, I'm the dynasty candidate."

I don't mean to be mean, and seriously, I was against Hillary before a tear ever escaped her ducts. She is a corporate candidate. Take her health care bill that never passed. She didn't work with Congress, and even her own party deserted her. Why? Because they came to see her bill as a big giveaway to insurance companies. Even now she wants people to have money deducted from their salaries to pay to insurance companies.

Health care really needs to follow a model European countries, where the pay concerns are between the hospital and the government. We already collect enough in taxes to pay for this, we just need to stop attacking other countries, and redirect some of the money into programs that will actually help Americans, instead of killing a few Americans, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

We've had enough of the Center. Clinton, for all the good during his administration, his centrist policies, his continuation of "free-trade" of the Bushes, and Hillary's likely mimic of these policies, has brought us to where we are today, an extreme right-wing. We keep voting for these people who are in the center, and that always results in the whole political spectrum being pulled further to the right. You can't win a tug-of-war of political ideas by starting in the middle, in the slick mud. We will just continue the slide to Fascism. We need to good-footing of the left.

[bidenista]

2. k+r

[Just-plain-Kathy]

306. Re: "Ready to serve" ...She and the whole lot of them should be serving jail time...

...for not holding Bush and Cheney accountable.

After all the BS she and Bill took from the "right"...she turned her back on this country in order to become more powerful.

It's nieve to believe the people who stole the White House in 2000 and 2004 will give up thier power. ...Hillary will either win because she was chosen by the White House Mafia, or she was given this chance because "THEY" knew Hillary would give reason for every repuke to come out and vote for warmongers like McCain and Romney.

[LiberalFighter]

334. How has Obama held Bush/Cheney accountable?

[Just-plain-Kathy]

344. You Hilbots see red whenever someone says anything about your leader.

...Take your blinders off, what part of the "the whole lot of them", don't you understand.

[LiberalFighter]

357. So Obama hasn't held Bush/Cheney accountable?

[goldcanyonaz]

3. I'm with you!

[AX10]

4. k/r

[saracat]

5. I have already voted for Edwards but I agree this attack has been abominable.

And it seems as though some have given "sexism" an imprimatur.

[Windy]

6. there are many reasons to vote against Hillary that are issue driven.

Her lack of judgment on Iraq and her vote on Kyl/Lieberman coupled with her failure to support the Levin amendment cliched it for me.

The idiotic things that you cited relate to this forum and the garbage that has been posted her which can be attributed to both sides.

This is the most important election of our lifetime thus far. I, for one, take it seriously.

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

210. You posted that this is the most important election "of our lifetime"

Don't you think that's rather a ridiculous statement

I wasn't aware that all DU'ers were the same age.

It's certainly not the most important election in my lifetime.

[pnwmom]

268. I'm surprised you would say that. When has our Constitution been

under a greater threat than it is now? When have we ever had a worse President?

My mother is 78, and she feels that it's the most important election in HER lifetime. I agree with her.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Yeah, right.

Sure.

[BenDavid]

8. We thank you for reaching this decision......

[KittyWampus]

9. Yeah, you were on the fence before. YOU disgust me with you attempts at appearing

fair minded and non-partisan.

There are maybe 6 assholes on both sides and yet you only see the ones posting as O. supporters.


I have a WEALTH of reasons for voting against the Clintons and not one is petty or vindictive.

[plantwomyn]

170. Did you forget the apostrophe?

You must have if saying that you have an WEALTH "of reasons for voting against the Clintons" isn't meant to be PETTY. There is only one candidate for POTUS with the name Clinton.

[mistertrickster]

342. No kidding. Here's a list--

Voted to allow Bush unilateral power to invade Iraq and never repudiated it
Sat on Wal-Mart board of Directors
Said "Lobbyists are good"
Is the most polarizing political figure since George WMD Bush
Voted for bankruptcy bill that helped big business screw the poor.

Other than that, she's great . . .

[papau]

352. 2005 bankruptcy law - both Clinton and Obama opposed it - neither voted for it -

Michelle Obama is on the board of Dean Foods - a major Walmart supplier for whom Walmart is a major customer and which has a fact sheet of human rights/work place rights/etc problems

"Lobbyists are good" refers to the fact the left does lobby - and she condemns no one that brings information to Congress. She also supports federal financing of elections so as to end excessive lobbyist influence via contributions. Obama takes Lobbyist contributions provided they are "state" lobbyists - takes free airplane rides on ADM lobbyist planes - takes lobbyist families contributions

Obama pretending that whomever he is running against - Hynes in 04 primary, Clinton now - is playing the race card when it is actually Obama "solidifying the ethnic vote" has been polarizing for many.

But he is a good professor - a good preacher

[LostinVA]

10. A pissed rennie is a wonderous thing

:scared:

[DemGa]

11. Great!!...nt

[Mass]

12. Was there ever a doubt you would vote for her?\nt

[anyothername]

a vote for hillary, is a vote against yourself

hillary may have made the claim that she was not authorizing a preemptive war with her iraq war vote, but the process of history certainly has a different opinion. the fact is, we all knew what the vote was for; it was a preemptive war. she was being disingenuous then, and she is being disingenuous now.

the facts: if you didn't support the war in 2002, she didn't support you. but worse. republicans cast all of us who strongly opposed the war in iraq at the time, as unpatriotic, illogical buffoons, and the actions of our democratic congressmen who voted with the republicans, in effect, was to agree with them. this should infuriate you.

barack obama, by contrast, stood with us. at a time when it was unpopular to speak out against the coming war, barack obama, at potential great expense to his political future, stood for us and spoke for us. it was an incredible act of political bravery. bravery which hillary herself, has not shown.

if you truly believe the iraq war to be a moral outrage on all levels, one of the biggest betrayals of the united states government perpetrated on its own people, then you cannot in good conscience, support hillary....

but maybe you don't believe that. maybe the war doesn't matter that much too you and never has. maybe, despite your protestations, you really aren't that outraged. the iraq war and the death and destruction which it has wrought, hundreds of thousands of men women and children dead, doesn't affect you. there are more important issues that need addressed. issues that in your mind, trump the relatively minor issue of iraq. issues so important, that everything else pales in comparison.

like electing the woman over then man... because you are a woman yourself. i hope i'm wrong, but much of the support for hillary, seems to be out of some tribal instinct to support your gender. it's not a rational support, it's an emotional one. it's an unpatriotic, and illogical one.

yes, maybe they were right about you in 2002. you've sold out your morals and country for something as insignificant as gender. if this accurately describes you, then it's time to take a look at your positions and a long hard look at yourself. if you support hillary, and you didn't support the war in 2002, you don't support yourself. you really are a buffoon. shame on you.

everyone else, who honestly did oppose the war in 2002, we're supporting barack. he supported us.

please, watch barack speak for himself on the war, in 2002:

(couple minutes a piece)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po

[sarahlen1980]

119. Obama supporters

Not all Obama supporters all full of such hatred, but it seems that a disproportionate number are. There are Clinton fans who are just as hateful, but I have to admit that Obama seems to have more of these type supporters. I don't see much good that can come of it. It only serves to fracture the party. I don't see a reason for the obsession with Hillary. What has she done that is so much worse than any other candidate. At the moment (and since she came on the scene really), she seems to be the most hated besides possibly Bush.

[libbygurl]

313. The hatred is irrational. To further the shaky analogy, what has she...

...really done to be as hated as Bush, who has been the most destructive leader in this nation's history? She's just been doing work as a Senator and working with people across the aisle on common ground issues, she tried to introduce universal health care in the early 90s for which she still gets vilified (now, everyone is on the univ. health care bandwagon), she withstood all those bilious attacks for staying married to Bill, which was no one else's business...etc.

I still don't get it. But thanks for your perspective on the matter.

[snooper2]

316. So whats your real DU name?

waiting

[anyothername]

345. if directed at me, that's a secret. let's just say, i'm proud to be...

amurkin.


honestly though, until i'm banned, this is my only name.

[bjobotts]

182. You don't know what you're talking about. She didn't support the "war"... ever

You twist her vote just like the right wing play book wants you to. She voted for an authorization to use military force...not for war. It was to be a last resort...after all other options had been tried. Barack was not privilege to all the bad intell driving the vote in the senate. Bush violated united nations rules to invade Iraq and 6mos later was granted retroactive immunity from the UN for doing so. You hear a line and then go around repeating it without any further investigation. Just like Hillary on the board of wal-mart...failing to mention it was at a time when she lived in Ark and when Sam Walton was in control and the slogan was Made In America...not the chinese production co they are now. None of these are deal breakers but just negatives pushed by those willing to swallow headlines. there is scant reason to smear Hillary to support Obama. She's an excellent candidate. Save your trite anger for headlines to come like "Sadam Obama Hussein" chanted over and over.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

241. I hear ya!

:thumbsup:

[Mojorabbit]

262. I am not thrilled with either of our candidates

but even I knew we were going to war with the vote. There were massive protests all over the world for cripes sake. Everyone who voted at that time knew we were going to war.

[tridim]

319. I think it was Bill Maher who said she probably thought the war would last 2 weeks

and she didn't want to have to eat crow at Bush's victory parade.

That's why I have a problem with her. Apparently she'd rather remain politically safe than do the right thing. We were all screaming at our congresspeople at the time that Iraq would be a disaster, yet she chose to trust the lying President instead.

[RaleighNCDUer]

329. If Bush exceeded his authority

why the FUCK didn't she stand up and say so in March 2003? Why did she wait 3 years before deciding that the war was a bad idea?

Either she knew exactly what he was going to do, and favored it, OR she was duped by a guy with a 93 IQ. Which way do you want it?

[alstephenson]

335. Thanks for calling me irrational, emotional and unpatriotic for supporting a different candidate!

Shame on you, asshole.

[anyothername]

340. assuming you weren't pro-war in 2002

assuming the peace sign below your name isn't meant to be ironic, i'm only doing today, what you would have done back then, to anyone who foolishly supported the war. returning the favor, so to speak. you were right then, you are wrong now.

except about the asshole thing. you got me there.

[alstephenson]

347. Sorry about the asshole thing.

I need to step away from the computer awhile.

[anyothername]

348. no problem

it's behavior i expect from someone so irrational and emotional ;)

[cali]

13. right back at you for your broad brush smear

As an Obama supporter, I've posted at least a dozen posts today in defense of Clinton, and I've criticized Michelle Obama for her comments. There are just as many noxious Clinton supporters as Obama supporters.

One more thing: Deciding who to vote for based on posters on DU is just lame.

Oh, and your suggestion that you're willing to bully other caucus goers is disgusting.

I consider you no less an abomination than you evidently consider me.

[Tarc]

53. Hey pop-tart (I still love that food-tossing thread from yesterday)

no one buys your CYA faux Clinton "support".

[cali]

61. Want to bet?

Quite a few Clinton supporters know I'm sincere about my defense of Clinton, kumquat. I've been doing it for months. Don't believe me? bwahahaha, tuna surpise. Check out this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4384304&mesg_id=4384304

[Tarc]

63. That you are a prolific poster is unquestionable

[cali]

69. can't admit you're wrong

quelle surprise.

[ClericJohnPreston]

191. What is it with you and food references...

cupcake... :)

[ldsracer]

167. right on

That's probably the worst way to choose a candidate to vote for. How about looking at the issues that matter to you and the best for the country?

[Catsbrains]

265. I was thinking the same thing......why would you decide who to vote for based on some nasty Duers?

[HopeforChange]

14. I support Obama and have been insulted with vulgar attacks.

[suziedemocrat]

145. I have been attacked by supporters of both Obama and Clinton.

As a consequence, I'm not that fond of either of them.

What is wrong with people?

[Teaser]

15. whatever rubs your rhubarb

everyone should do what makes them happy.

[Beacool]

16. Thank you!

I avoided DU all weekend and since last I night have responded to only a few posts. I have chosen to ignore the hate because I think that it mainly comes from the very young. At least I sure hope so, if not, they should know better.

I think that Hillary will prevail in the long run. Her experience and preparedness shone in every debate and I have faith that people will recognize that and reward her for it.

[Neecy]

17. you speak for all women?

I didn't participate in the crying threads, because I think it's a silly non-issue. But to state that Obama supporters are an 'abomination' to women in this country is utterly ridiculous. Every single woman in my family is for Obama and they're hardly 'abominations'. Grow up.

[MADem]

25. I didn't see the OP say that she spoke for all women. Why are you inferring it? NT

[mrreowwr_kittty]

87. Thank you.

One of the worst things the Clintons have done in this campaign is exploit feminism and the women's movement to create a rift among progressive women. You have NOW at odds with NARAL and Planned Parenthood. How did that happen? Women in my local progressive community are literally not on speaking terms with each other because the Clinton campaign lied about Obama's record on choice. When our governor, Janet Napolitano, endorsed Obama the response from the Clinton camp was more over the top than anything I'd ever seen. She had "betrayed" women! Feminist leaders were openly threatening her political career in press releases and public statements. It was similar to the bizarre attacks by the NY NOW president.

I'll be so glad when this is over.

[Neecy]

98. yep, it's getting ugly out there

I was glad when Oprah (I'm sure I'll be mocked for bringing her up) addressed the 'gender traitor' issue yesterday. I thought one of the main tenets of feminism was the ability to think for ourselves and make rational, informed decisions. When we try to do that we're told we can't without being branded as traitors or, even sillier, as 'abominations'. That word alone galled me in the OP because it's so often thrown out against the gay community by thumpers and good god, I sure don't want to see it tossed around here. I bristle at the use of it because I've been branded an 'abomination' by these people for most of my life.

[RaleighNCDUer]

332. It already is over.

Neither of the remaining candidates will win.

Say hello to President McCain.

[Deep13]

18. Welcome aboard.

Sorry you're so pissed off.

[Nederland]

19. You control your husband's vote?

And I will be sure that my husband does the same...

How interesting.

I wonder what people around here would say if I said I would "be sure my wife voted for Obama".

[MoonRiver]

43. Maybe her husband is undecided, as was mine.

But since I pay a lot more attention to what's happening politically, he listens to me and usually, but not always, agrees with me. We are simpatico if you will. We will both be casting our vote for Hillary Clinton tomorrow.

[1corona4u]

91. They'd probably ask you if you lived in Iowa, LOL....

[heliarc]

283. Well said

Chauvinism works both ways. My wife and I discuss our votes and she can vote whatever way she pleases. She is her own woman and I am my own man.

[City Lights]

20. Gee, there's a shocker. eom

[sfam]

21. I'm truly amazed that people here actually decide on a candidate based on people here...

Truly I am. I never know if these threads are real or not, but I'm always shocked. So you either like or hate Obama or Clinton based on what people here say????

How frickin strange is that? Tell me, if you were at a coffee shop, and people said nasty things about Clinton, would you decide to vote for her for this reason as well?

Here's a thought - why don't you decide based on what the candidates and campaigns are saying and doing, not on the conduct of a bunch of coffee addicted, crazed political junkies who have to comment on every issue instantly are posting. Does this really seem like a rational method to choose who to vote for???

I truly hope for your sake that your other decision making processes are more coherent than how you choose a president. I can just imagine how you go about picking a house to buy, for instance!

And for godsakes, don't EVER go to a board that discusses evolution and religion. I can just imagine how many times you'll change your mind on THAT issue...unbelievable...

[loveangelc]

22. wow. overreact much? people on a website deciding your vote isnt something I'd be stating publically

[MadBadger]

23. You will be sure your husband will do the same? What happens if he says no?

[John Q. Citizen]

39. Divorce, no doubt. Why would she stay with a sexist pig who won't vote for "her girl?"

[Caretha]

189. You have just demonstrated the perfect example

of an oaf and a bore.

[John Q. Citizen]

307. Because I empathize with spouses everywhere who get forced to vote like their

spouse demands?

I'm more of a "You are an adult, you can make up your own mind" kind of person.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

193. Wouldn't that be a blessing in disguise for her husband?

I couldn't imagine being married to someone who seems so immature and unstable.

[hiaasenrocks]

41. He will hear the ROAR

[ORDagnabbit]

24. go on ahead and support the war loving crodile tear dropping corporatist its a free country.

[rodeodance]

89. Go find your hole. Poster's point was the vile again HRC and YOu just illustrated it.

[psychopomp]

158. You have done plenty of baiting yourself

and you know it. There has been an awful number of immature, baiting and ignorant posts from supporters of either candidate.

Regarding the OP, you probably need to step away from the keyboard for awhile...and I wouldn't advise turning on the TV to watch the pundits!

[TornadoTN]

301. Right on!

Very well put.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. the post around here make me angry & disgusted and more determend to vote for Hillary also...

:toast: :toast: :toast:

[emilyg]

251. Same here. Cheers for Sen. Clinton.

[FrenchieCat]

27. Thank god the suspense is over!

:crazy:


Writer (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-28-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Wow, I suddenly am feeling the inclination to caucus for Clinton on Feb. 5th.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4247537&mesg_id=4247659
------------------------------------------------------------

Writer (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-30-08 04:32 PM
Original message
Something about Barack Obama is starting to bother me.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 04:58 PM by Writer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4301081

[mrreowwr_kittty]

*snort*

Good catches there, Frenchie!

[John Q. Citizen]

47. I was waiting for "writer" to declare too, before making up mind. Now I have no choice.

It's Hill's way or the highway for me.

I'd just die if writer called me sexist...

:rofl:

[sfam]

68. **Shocking*** So she was a Clinton supporter for a while now, ey?

That actually makes me feel lots better. To think that Writer actually decided on who to vote for based on comments people made on a discussion board left me with a pretty sick feeling in my stomach.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

79. K&R! I find Obama uses a great deal of platitudes and double speak...

I'm still sticking with Edwards because I don't trust either of the other two.
Question--
Will the only Constitutional scholar in the race take a stand on retroactive immunity for the telecoms?
If he doesn't take a real stand on this then, what will he take a stand on?
http://www.correntewire.com/will_the_only_constitutional_scholar_in_the_race_take_a_stand_on_retroactive_immunity_for_the_telcos

--" Martin Luther King III to John Edwards: I challenge all candidates to follow your lead"
Martin L. King, III
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4147131


'Which candidate is a LEADER? Which are just politicians?
Elizabeth Edwards - A Glimpse Behind The Curtain --
"Elizabeth Edwards speaks about the assassination of former Pakistani Prime Minister Bhutto and the responses of the various presidential candidates. This video was recorded in Concord, N.H. on January 6, 2008"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhYN9nSIw6Q

Don't compromise,you can still vote for the only true progressive Democrat!
Suspended not Ended:

" Listen up, Super Tuesday states and everywhere! Edwards is back on the ballot, and your votes will count! Make the change you wish to see. This is grassroots democracy, let's keep the Edwards message alive" I'm Sticking with John Edwards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJVwzBLo0X4&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZxOYF9ZAe0

[1corona4u]

168. Calling out another DU'er, again?

Tsk, tsk....

[goldcanyonaz]

184. She's a true uniter for the ABO crowd.

:hi:

[cottonseed]

173. Funny n/t

[Danger Mouse]

185. Now, now, we should be VERY concerned with what Her Majesty decides.

:puke:
Hey, everyone! Pay attention! Writer has an announcement to make!!

[Alexander]

227. LOL! Good catch! Writer just lost all credibility.

[Writer]

359. FrenchieCat, I would like to ask: Do you have any posts of mine preceding 1/28?

Because 1/28 was, oh, 9 days ago. Over the last week I started leaning toward then finally made my jump to Clinton which started no earlier than - let's see - 9 DAYS AGO.

I mean, truly, if you're that interested in digging through my archives, be my guest. Please pull my entire catalog of posts showing my long-standing affiliation with the Clinton campaign. Just turn the light off when you're finished.

Sincerely,

~Writer the Clinton Supporter~

[rox63]

28. Oh puh-lease! Spare me the self-rightious anger...

There is at least as much (I think more) Obama-hatred piled on by Hillary supporters. And anyone who lets obnoxious posts on an internet forum decide their vote must be pretty weak-minded.

Why are so many Hillary-supporters playing the victim around here? Do you think that because it worked in NH, it will work again on Super Tuesday? Think again.

[NC_Nurse]

29. I don't get that sort of crap either. How disgusting.

Not all of us who support Obama are like that. Please don't think
that the people on this board reflect the values of their candidate or his/her
other supporters.
Some people are just jerks.

[AtomicKitten]

30. I oppose her stance on the war and that is neither underwhelming, petty, nor vindictive.

But your finger-wagging and brow-beating is.

[snappyturtle]

65. I totally agree with you AtomicKitten. Besides, the candidates are

politicians by choice and all the negativity that rises to the surface in campaigning is to be expected and I doubt that it even bothers THEM....at least I hope they are stronger than that.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

31. Broad brush painting of all DUers using the "You" moniker is juvenile.

There are numerous poster here that are here only to create dissension within the veins of discussion. Whether they are paid by the political parties, or are just GOP a-holes stirring the pot, is irrelevant. To acknowledge them as your over-riding influence in selecting a candidate, is, well, wrong. How about we use good research and critical thinking to select our candidate and avoid labeling vast groups of democrats as the enemy?

[Adelante]

32. I think you can vote for who you want to vote for

WITHOUT calling other DUers "an abomination to this party, to this era, and to women in this country."

I deeply resent your language, as an Obama supporter, as a woman, and as a Democrat of 40 years standing.

[iconoclastic cat]

33. Vote for whomever you want. But don't freak out over a message board.

There are lots of things you should take seriously in life. Postings on DU that slam your candidate aren't one of them.

See? Was there any bile in my response, despite the fact that the broad brush was aimed in my vicinity? No, there wasn't. That's because I know better than to become emotionally invested in the crap that's posted here, whether I agree with it or not.

Log off and relax a while.

[blm]

Kinda absurd reason. I don't even go into crying threads because they're stupid so

why on earth would anyone decide their vote based on that?

Open government is SERIOUS business to consider. Government CORRUPTION is serious business to consider.

Why waste time with ANY thread based in emotion or demagoguery set up against either candidate?

[VolcanoJen]

34. You're voting for Clinton solely because some people said mean stuff about her?

Really?

[sfam]

42. Just imagine when Writer hits the evolution/creationism boards...She must change beliefs daily!!!

truly, this is an absolutely bizarre reason to decide to vote for someone...why Writer would state this publicly, I'll never know.

[juajen]

153. I'm voting for Hillary because she is the smartest person on the stage.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton because, at last, we have a woman who is qualified to be President of the United States.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton because, at last, we have a female candidate who has walked the path to power so that she can compete with the big boys, proving her mettle every step of the way.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton because she is not afraid of the opposition and has the toughness to beat them at their own game.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton because it will probably be another 100 years or so before we have another woman who has all of these qualities.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton because I believe she cares deeply for the families of this nation, and will do her best to help the ones who are struggling and just not making it.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton because only she has a spouse she can trust that has been there and can advise her on impossible positions she might have to take. No one else has that advantage, and we should be thrilled we are blessed with this unusual situation. Yes, she is lucky, but, she worked right beside him for all these years, helping him and our nation in any way she could. Some Americans see that as a great advantage when the amazing amount of problems face our next President.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton because I still do not know how Obama will change anything, how he will bring hope to us all, in fact, how the hell is he planning on pugs and dems working together when historically that is impossible. Without questions, friction and disagreement, we could not grow. What does he want, a Stepford society?

[desi]

324. Kickin' the OP and your post..Most EXCELLENT!!!

:kick:

[joshcryer]

35. Fuck yeah! You better make sure your husband does the same.

What kind of wife would you be if you didn't!

[Guava Jelly]

36. I am a committed Obama supporter now

The nastiness has been sickening on both sides.
I would just submit that don't let the childishness of the supporters on both sides sway your decision.
I sure am not.
My reasons for supporting Obama make sense to me.
As others reasons for supporting Clinton make sense to them.
All and all when one emerges the Nominee They will receive my support no matter who
~GoPsUx (Writers friend)~

[LandOLincoln]

37. Yep--lots of angry young males

with testosterone poisoning and low post counts, spouting Dittoheadedly. (I originally called them "angry young men," but they don't rate that term yet and probably never will.)

Is it coincidence? I think not.

There are other blogs, though, lots of them. With grownups posting grownupedly, even.

Oh yeah--K & R

:kick:

[joshcryer]

38. BTW, if Hillary gets the nod you can bet on better environment, pull out from Iraq, and universal...

...health care! Just so you know, it's actually the right decision!

[MadBadger]

40. So you think the only reason people are voting against Hillary is cuz she cried? Your're delusional.

[bunnies]

44. "The reasons for voting AGAINST Hillary Clinton are underwhelming, vindictive, and petty"

Im sure a few hundred thousand families of dead Americans and Iraqi's would disagree.

[BooScout]

45. Glad to have you

Get some body armor. You'll need it with this crowd.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

46. The entitlement-dripping weenies who support HRC are the least of my reasons for voting against her.

But hey, everyone's different. :shrug:

[csorman]

48. Sorry you're so seething and angry

about what some jerks do, but not all of us are like that. It is equally disturbing to see the attacks piled on Obama by Hillary-supporters. I don't EVER inform myself based on knee-jerk, idiotic comments on EITHER side.

Grow up, and then think for yourself.

And if ANYONE ever told me I had to vote for someone based on what random people wrote on a discussion board, I would tell them to shove it.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbedvoter]

50. Or ad Bill Kristol said: "White women are the problem" I know how you feel.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4382625&mesg_id=4382625
the only people supporting Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's (D-NY) presidential campaign "are the Democratic establishment and white women." Kristol then asserted that "it would be crazy for the Democratic Party to follow an establishment that's led it to defeat year after year,"

[flpoljunkie]

51. Did it ever occur to why Hillary made this "nostalgic" trip to Yale the day before Super Tuesday?

If you don't, you might want to speak with Mark Penn.

[robbedvoter]

74. Ummmm...Connecticut has an election tomorrow? Is campaigning "evil" now?

[flpoljunkie]

78. All the more reason for a "nostalgic" visit on the eve of the primary to try and sell her to women

Ask Mark Penn.

[The Ghost]

52. Wow

another person who believe this crying routine! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Shes got you fooled, again.

[Didereaux]

54. First I disagree with your method of choosing, BUT...

I absolutely agree with your sentiments. Several weeks ago, after the NH vote and Joe Biden dropped out. I decided to sit on the sidelines untlil the primaries were over and then work my aass off for whomever came out of Denver. During that time I studied up as much as I could on the remaining leaders, going so far as to read Obamas' book. Hillary I knew as much about as any other informed layman, and being an old 'Boomer' I have watched the Bill & Hill Show since Arklansas.

The more I came to know about Obama(and believe me their is precious little substance in his book), and the more I listened to what he said...the more worriesome he became. Then when he was consistently beaten in the debates(I have seen all of them that were broadcast or posted online) by first Biden and then Clinton and his campaign started getting whiney and ugly I started drawing away from him. The last week or so I have come to the conclusion that the man has a minor messianic problem, and a very puzzling and disturbing support from some big money folks who are staying behind the scenes. When Ted Kennedy and Kerry came out for him, for nothing more than revenge on the Clintons', Obamas fate as far as my vote and support goes was sealed! No way, distrust of Hillary pales in comparison with the distrust I have of Obama.

...and yes the actions of his supporters subtracted from his weight as well.

[goldcanyonaz]

75. I was also a Biden supporter who came into the Clinton camp for your exact same reasons.

[Marrah_G]

296. I went from Biden to Edwards to Clinton.

[PatSeg]

122. I pretty much feel the same way

I am not a Clinton supporter, but once Biden dropped out, I was able to sit back and look at the remaining candidates more objectively. I am not against either Obama or Clinton, but of the two, Clinton appears more competent and confident.

[Andromeda]

169. I feel exactly the same way.

Obama appeals to the (very) young...and inexperienced. He's all style and no substance.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

55. you let anonymous, faceless phantoms on the internet

sway your vote? Those could be Republicans on DU, it's not like anyone checks your registration when you sign up here.

You're being foolish. Support Hillary by all means, but don't do it because of some garbage you read on the internet.

[Bonobo]

56. My vote for stupidest reason to choose a candidate goes to you and yours!

[DS1]

57. both sides are equally venomous here, I believe

I can't wait until one is defeated and we can move on

[NJSecularist]

58. Glad to see that Hillary's crying tactics are working

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

She's getting exactly what she wanted from her precalculated crying... votes.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

235. Is emotion to much for you, vote for a Robot then!

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. This is what happened to me.

I've never seen anything like it. I came in this forum not knowing who I was voting for...and it took all of 2 days for me to decide on Hillary. The PURE, VISCERAL HATRED aimed at her is reminiscent of freepers. It makes me sick.:(

[Danger Mouse]

176. What about the level of hatred directed at Obama?

Heh, there are some posters that are practically OBSESSED with smearing him eight ways from sunday.

[Marrah_G]

297. People from both sides are doing it and they are all wrong.

They should all be ashamed of themselves. I've actually put long time Du folks on ignore- people I actually once liked, because of their reprehensible actions on this board during this primary.

[gristy]

194. Oh my

You let the poor behavior of other DUers convince you how to vote? Based on their over-the-top attacks on HRC? Well, that certainly must have made the choice easy, didn't it. Not particularly well-informed, but I guess you are just busy person...

Oh, and your ongoing visceral attacks on Obama are of course interesting.

[LSK]

206. I would expect better of you

Not of who you support but how you choose that person to support. I cheerleaded the split of this forum from GD and only come here while looking at the greatest forum and I do not spend much time here besides that.

GDP is a complete waste of time and you should know better than to base your opinions on the garbage posted here.

[krkaufman]

60. When did Hillary cry?

Seriously. I'm not aware of any instance of her crying in public. (I'm not saying it should matter; I'm just not aware of any case of her crying.)

[calimary]

253. Once and for all - SHE DID NOT CRY!!!!!

Enough already with the Hillary boo-hoos crap!

Look, whichEVER way you feel about her, what I saw with my eyes, before the New Hampshire primary, was a woman WAY overtired (as ALL the candidates were by then - bank on it), having taken a horrendous beating from all sides and all directions leading up to that point, and some lady asked her a somewhat personal question - who does her hair, and, I believe, how she was coping. And that got to her AND SHE CHOKED UP A LITTLE. It was more in the voice than in the face OR the tear-ducts. Fatigue, mainly. The bags under her eyes were bigger than I've ever seen them. And, I'll tell ya, when I heard her saying that phrase about how she had gained so much from this country and saw how wrong it's turned and how "we've got to reverse it!" - I swear, I MYSELF got choked up. And I have, on far more than one occasion, just as a civilian, thinking about how wrong my country has turned and how desperately we need to reverse that. That thought has driven me to full-on tears, okay? Because I think we ARE in a desperate situation by now, what with the culmination of the extremely damaging effects of that Great Satan, ronald reagan, and what his bastard child, george w. bush has done with his hand-me-down, hammering more and more nails into the coffin of the Constitution and civil rights and a level playing field! I really do!

As for the latest alleged incident, when she purportedly got teary-eyed again, the coverage I have seen of that, with the clips I've seen, I HAVE NOT WITNESSED ANY CRYING!!! NONE!!! And evidently, whatever was the emotional moment came when she made an appearance at her old stomping grounds at Yale, and was introduced in most touching and sentimental terms by a longtime mentor from her school days there. Somebody really important to her, affectionately. A homecoming of sorts. After a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGG journey getting there, and lots of emotional ups and downs and highs and lows. Returning to the place where she first met her husband, and where she had really seminal experiences that shaped her view of public policy and how one gets involved and tries to work for progress and change within the system. Um... sounds like an event that would evoke some emotions in me, personally, were I to have a similar homecoming experience.

GAWD! People! LAY OFF IT!!! ENOUGH!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!!!!

I'm still undecided. I like both Barack and Hillary. But I, too, am really aghast at how viciously she's been attacked. Moreso than anyone else out there on the campaign trail. And in her case, it didn't start with this campaign season, either. There have been political assassins gunning for her for, what? SIXTEEN YEARS NOW, at least??? Come ON!!! She's taken a worse beating, overall, than even her husband. People have been after her with knives and forks, nooses and torches. I cannot help but feel for her and want to sympathize with her. It's not just the reactions of some people here, it's the reactions of Hillary-haters EVERYWHERE. One would be tempted to think that those who wanna carve her up here may indeed be moles, considering the bile that's spilling out...

I do not know. As I said, I am still undecided. And I'm trying hard to think strategically, not about this particular Super Tuesday, but NOVEMBER. And I think perhaps some people will remember my most recent thread here celebrating with great hoots and hollers how our neighbors down the street, staunch lifetime Republicans, put an Obama sign in their front yard - and took great pride in doing so. I may well wind up voting for him after all. Because EITHER way, whether we get the first woman president or the first black president, WE STILL WIN AND WE STILL BREAK ANOTHER GLASS CEILING AND WE STILL MAKE HISTORY! I desperately want to vote for a woman for president, and I admire a whole lot about Hillary (mainly, this reporter is utterly awe-struck by her brains - her towering intellect and her willingness to put it to use in trying to solve the nation's problems). But she voted for the war and kept voting to fund it (um... Barack voted to keep funding it, too, even though he opposed the IWR), and that's a huge stumbling block for me as an anti-war activist who spent so much time rallying and marching and petitioning and calling and writing and emailing to try to stop the war, and then to end it.

Funny, I ran into a woman in a local shop just yesterday - a novelty shop where there were lots of novelty items pertaining to the campaign - and we were looking at the Hillary toilet brushes and shaking our heads in disgust (mitigated only by spotting several george w. bush toilet brushes). And she turned to me and said she felt like Obama was going to win and that was MOST excellent, but that, since her vote wouldn't matter all that much, she'd decided to vote for Hillary - BECAUSE SHE WANTED VERY BADLY TO VOTE FOR A WOMAN FOR PRESIDENT. Hate to use the cliche, but I feel her pain! I have several close woman friends who have said the identical thing - that this time, because they SO BADLY want to vote for a woman for president, they're gonna go for Hillary.

Just as Barack Obama is the FIRST really seriously viable African American candidate, Hillary Clinton is the FIRST really seriously viable female candidate. One of my first votes for president way back when - was for Representative Shirley Chisholm - just because I wanted to vote for a WOMAN for president, knowing full well she didn't have a snowball's chance... And I still yearn to do that. The closest we've come up til now is Geraldine Ferraro - for Vice President. But who else have we got - in either party - who's truly viable now or in the future? contradicta? :puke: elizabeth dole? :rofl: Some of the governors out there (Granholm, Sibelius, Napolitano) are not exactly household words and they don't have a national profile, really. You wouldn't automatically go to their names as prospects with any really solid chances for victory. Hillary's the first one in a long time to come along and appear fit to step into that position, and I don't see anybody coming up after her - at least not yet.

I really want to vote for Hillary. I don't know that I can. It's a serious dilemma for me! But seeing her treated as some sort of 24-hour punching bag is the kind of thing that does start pushing me toward doing so. And before you start flaming me, too, it's NOT just because of the people here, either! Every time my husband sits there and starts some obnoxious WAAAAHAAAAHAAAA-ing whenever Clinton's ALLEGED "crying episodes" get a mention on TV (which has to be about 50-THOUSAND TIMES A DAY by now), it makes me wanna run to the nearest precinct NOW and punch the card HARD for her. I have had it up to here with the shitty treatment she's gotten from virtually every quarter, every direction - and not just here.

I may still wind up voting for Barack tomorrow. I CERTAINLY will in November - if he's the last Dem standing. Guaranteed. AND with great enthusiasm.

[hfojvt]

62. I didn't see the last debate

plus, I don't let obnoxious bloggers decide things for me. For all I know the Clinton campaign has volunteers pretending to be obnoxious Obama supporters :tinfoilhat:

I am still disgusted by the last Clinton administration. Nor have I seen anything inspiring from her campaign this time.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/71

[Deja Q]

64. Voting out of reactionary emotion rather than the candidate's experiences?

She's as much a politician as any other and all the ills thereof. In that regard, nobody has special rights.

What if Obama did the crying game?

Meanwhile, as much as every candidate has their share of good or bad ideas, and maybe I've been half-blind, but what do the candidates think of jobs at home so we can pay for all these wonderful programs?

[Barack_America]

66. You always were, in my mind. This is no surprise.

It was obvious to me at least. You've been posting vehemently anti-Obama posts for quite some time.

[Danger Mouse]

179. Just like Proud2BeAnIdiot 'just suddenly' decided he wouldn't vote for Obama?

Yeah, these people are as transparent as plate glass.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlackVelvet04]

70. Love ya.....

mean it! :hi: :loveya: :hug: let's give 'em hell.

[Auntie Bush]

71. I couldn't agree with you more. Bravo! n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

72. and in response they continue the attack.......

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[robbedvoter]

77. Confirming the OP. Silly, silly emotional wimin folk and their hurt feelings!

Yup. No need to scratch too deep for the ugliness to come out.

[BlackVelvet04]

82. How little they understand the ways of the world.....

;-)

[JAbuchan08]

73. Isn't that like a really poor reason to vote for someone?

I think it is.

At least some people have the decency to be completely logically fallicious in their justification of support, but to justify it all on the percieved (or even actual) slights that your candidate has suffered as if that delegitimises all opposition to your candidate is ridiculous.

I've spent a lot of time wavering between pragmatism and idealism, uncertain what qualified as "playing the game" and what was political cowardice, but ultimately people like you, who vote in order to spite their opponents turn me off the most.

Do you remember how many people voted for GWB because they were "offended" that people called him dumb? Know I'm not saying that Hillary is everything that people have said she is. Perhaps even my perceptions of her are more media-influenced than I think they are, but to reduce the honest opinions that many people have about her character and personality to mere sexism seems to be irrational.
I just will never understand how criticism of Hillary becomes criticism of all women. To say it is sexist to imply that Hillary used her "crying" to manipulate people is to imply that NO woman is capable of that behavior. To say it is sexist to hold Clinton to a higher standard on the IWR and Kyle Leiberman is to assume that their records are all equal and that therefore they SHOULD be subject to a single standard in the first place.
There are people out there who believe that all of Hillary's missteps and misjudgements are as a result of her being a woman. I simply think that they are a result of her missteps and misjudgements. I'm just tired of the seige mentality of Hillary posters. It's driven me away from Hillary almost as much as anything she's done herself.

[robbedvoter]

80. How kind of you to teach the silly woman to be less emotional! Patronize much?

I believe the OP already gave you her reasons to vote FOR Hillary. What you guys added was just the reasons to vote against your guy. Goes for me too. It's still the same vote, only sweeter.:nuke:

[JAbuchan08]

86. You know I like emotions

I just don't get the idea that we have to validate everyone's emotions as a matter of course - especially if they are a woman. Like, okay, "this particular emotion seems entirely irrational - maybe even fake to me - but you know it's an emotion can't argue with that"

That's a pretty good trump card there. "You can't argue with emotion" no matter how fake it appears to you. Unless it's "hope for change" That's a SILLY fake emotion, but fake crying - that's what I call sincerity.

Let me ask you this question. Has any woman ever used fake crying to manipulate people? Seriously has. any. woman. ever. in. the. history. of. the. universe. used. faked. emotions. to. manipulate. people. into. sympathizing. with. her? If. so. than. it. is. entirely. possible. that. it. is. not. sexist. to. believe. that. ONE. of. the. approximately. three. billion. women. on. this. planet. is. not. as. awesome! as. you. think. she. is.

BTW is there a paradox somewhere in using a pathos argument to attack sexists who stereotype women as being overly emotional? There seems to be some inconsistency there to me.
Please pardon the patronization, but I don't reserve it exclusively for women.

[robbedvoter]

131. "especially if they are a woman" - poor thing, you don't seem to get much, do you?

[JAbuchan08]

275. Isn't that what these arguments are about

we have to validate Hillary's emotions not because they are genuine but because she is a woman. I'm not talking about wider society. I'm talking about this issue right now.
We are talking about female exceptionalism as it relates to Hillary. What is so hard about that?

In other words *I* am not the one arguing that we should validate Hillary's "emotions" and presume that they are genuine simply because NOT doing so would be sexist. Vis-a-vis this particular conversation the "especially women" phrasing is appropriate.

[Alexander]

76. You were probably for Clinton the whole time. Nice try.

I don't believe a single one of these "those nasty supporters on DU made me support my candidate" posts.

I call bullshit.

[robbedvoter]

81. So much insight from the people who believe that MSM really, really loves

their candidate!

[Alexander]

154. Spare me your nonsensical babbling. The MSM hates Obama just as much as you do.

How else do you explain this?

[mopinko]

83. if this is true, you have been played.

gee, wonder what uncle kkkarl has in store for you come november? divide and conquer has never been so easy.

[1corona4u]

84. Yeah!!!! Writer!!

A wise choice.

[Mz Pip]

85. Oh good grief.

You're basing your support on what idiots post on a message board?

I agree the postings are petty. Kinda like the anti-Obama postings. Birds of a feather IMHO.

Not one poster here has the kind of power needed to influence my vote one way or another.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[alteredstate]

290. I agree.

It's sad that you would allow your decision to be influenced by a handful of anonymous Internet posters,

[rodeodance]

88. Thank you for the post--

[demo dutch]

90. Thks for yr post. I couldn't agree more!

[RiverStone]

92. A post filled with disgust...dissing the disgust on DU

Just keeps the negative ball rolling.

It's the primaries. Politics is a full contact sport. This is normal.

Obama would be far, far better at unifying our country than Clinton.

But I'm not gonna rail on fellow DUers for having a diversity of opinion.

After the convention - we will be of one voice.

[VotesForWomen]

93. the crazed, rabid attacks on her pushed me into her camp to. she's a fine, capable candidate, and

when i see so many people, foaming at the mouth, not representing themselves very well at all, telling me not to vote for her, it seems like she's probably got to be a better candidate than whoever they're supporting.

[donheld]

94. Do you think that's what you should be basing your vote on

You base your vote on the behavior of fools here at DU. Fools you do not even know. Aren't there issues that are more important than the behavior of fools?

[juajen]

190. I was around when JFK was elected, and believe me,

women all over this country voted for him because he was the cutest presidential candidate they had ever seen. I believe Pollybama is getting a huge dose of this good-looks vote, also. Additionally, younger people are voting now. Then, you had to 21, now 18. People vote for stupid reasons. Sometimes I do think you need an IQ test to vote.

[citizen snips]

95. agreed

some posters need to grow the fuck up. I was undecided but DU is changing my mind.

[Indenturedebtor]

105. Hahaha

The door swings both ways.

I speak ill of HRC because of her triangulation and corporate bedfellows.

Don't be disingenous by saying that Obama supporters' negativity towards her has swayed you. Now you're just insulting everyone's intelligence.

I've seen A LOT more venom from HRC supporters towards Obama supporters. "Stupid naive koolaide drinking young people" and all that.

The crap thrown towards either candidate seems to be at about the same level.

But you made a pretty speech so :applause:

[citizen snips]

120. stop putting words in my mouth.

Many young people today are falling for Obama's idealism. I am sorry but this young person will not be swayed.

[CarolNYC]

96. Well, I came to the conclusion long before now...

But it was all of the ridiculous attacks here and elsewhere that pushed me toward Hillary...After doing some reasearch, etc. now I'm firmly in her camp, to the point that I volunteered to work on her campaign, something would NEVER have done without the push of the Hillary Haters....So, I guess I should thank them.

[crimsonblue]

97. hmm..

I guess hillary is gonna win the PMS demographic...

[cottonseed]

99. Ouch. n/t

[nonconformist]

100. K & R! nt

[zulchzulu]

101. Too funny!

Because some people talk about how Hillary cried or not makes you completely choose not to vote for Barack Obama...

Yeah, right. I detect that you are a phony.

[IntravenousDemilo]

102. Hey, Writer, it's "enunciate". n/m

[Clintonista2]

103. K&R!!!!!!!

[amborin]

104. shocked at obama supporters

who say they will not support Hillary Clinton if she gets the nomination

they are petty, vindictive, not the least concerned about the US

[Spider Jerusalem]

106. That's a silly reason to support a candidate.

To equate negative actions on the part of supporters with the candidate is absurdity (and to be perfectly FAIR, there's been a lot of intemperate nonsense from Clinton supporters directed at Obama, too).

Unless it's OBAMA or his campaign saying these things, using this as a basis for deciding to support Clinton is irrational.

[peace frog]

107. I heard that!

The level of hatefulness has gone over the top, and the worst of it is coming from the Obama camp.

[flyarm]

108. wow they have been pushing me that way too..and i already voted for Edwards and my support is and

was with Edwards..but these ipod kids have so pissed me off..i don't even want to look at Obama..but they pissed me off in Iowa on the ground and S.C. too..he used them as young as 7&8 yr olds!!

I now can't even stand to see anything about him..and i am a die hard dem who was empty in the heart for Hillary ( thats a nice way to say it) and would have possibly gone his way..not now..no way no how!

fly

[LittleClarkie]

109. You mean you didn't already?

I would have thought you'd already be in her camp pretty solidly.

[NOLALady]

110. Let me get this straight.

You are voting for someone because you are angry with posters in a forum.

OK.

[Stuckinthebush]

113. Yes, seems rather illogical don't you think?

Hell, I'll probably vote for Hillary but it certainly isn't because I don't like Obama supporters on the DemocraticUnderground site. My god, the Clinton supporters are just as nasty here. It's a big ol' mosh-pit of blind support around here.

I'd hope that the OP would vote on the issues but it seems like a number of people are just golly-gee happy to make a vote based on stupid shit.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

314. And we wonder why this country is in the shape it is in.

I'm going to vote for Bush because he looks like a kewl guy to have a beer with! I'm voting for Hillary because non-Hillary DUers are big, bad meanies!

[avrdream]

111. With you on that anger, Writer.

Was already committed to Hillary, though.

K&R

[jeffrey_X]

112. You don't think it's coming from both sides? And you don't think some of these folks are fishing??

Geeesh.

[nancyharris]

114. Looks Like Clinton has the "disgusted" and "angry" vote

all sewn-up

[Arugula Latte]

115. Such drama.

There is hyperbole on both sides.

[StClone]

116. I'll vote for Hill if she is the last option

The trouble makers Kucinich and Edwards were my first two choices and Obama after that.

[Straight Shooter]

117. I wavered between Hillary and John for a long time.

When John suspended the race, since I'm in Oregon, my choice of nominee will probably be made for me by all the other states in their primaries.

The unity, hope and change thing kind of looks like a charade when you view it through the words of his supporters/followers.

I just changed my avatar from Gore to Hillary the other day. Felt good.

:thumbsup:

[Ellen Forradalom]

118. I think HIllary will make one tough leader.

I like that. I think we need that. She's got my vote.

[Orsino]

338. She's tough, all right, and that may be her best quality.

I see little to hope for, though, in where she is likely to lead us.

If nominated, she will win, and make history. If she actually ends the war, I'll even sing her praises, but I expect her to return to the business-as-usual of selling us into corporate bondage--though that may be mostly the fault of Congress.

I'm not without hope, but she has really, really discouraged me. Her being significantly better than anyone who would dare call him/herself Republican isn't enough. We need a hero, and we need one ten years ago. I'll cross my fingers for her, but in the meantime I'll support the slightly-greater hope that Obama seems to offer.

Her nomination seems all but preordained, so I figure I'll end up in the Clinton camp, anyway. x(

[Truthiness]

121. She voted to give Bush authority to bomb Iraq - hardly "underwhelming" or petty

Hillary had the opportunity to be on the right side of history and vote AGAINST an illegal war. Instead, she let political expediency make her decision and now she is on the wrong side of history.

This is hardly an "underwhelming, vindictive, and petty" reason to vote against someone. On the contrary, I can think of nothing more important.

[CaptJasHook]

123. If I were to vote on anger at DUers, I think I'd vote for McCain

Kettle = Black
Pot = Black

Kettle = Pot

Or at least they share something in common.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandyj999]

127. That is Exactly what I'm talking about. thanks for the example. n/t

[PassingFair]

137. She polls well with psychopaths.....

:evilgrin:

[Der Blaue Engel]

152. Have you been spewing this hate since 2001 or are you new to trolling?

This website is making me sick.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

166. It's not hate.

Just a low tolerance for petulant cry-babies.

Funny how they all flock to the same candidate!

[cottonseed]

171. Ouchy mama n/t

[Danger Mouse]

202. Wish I could recommend your fantastic post.

:thumbsup:

[Marrah_G]

298. wow- what nasty post - I hope you choke on all that bile you are spewing.

[Dawgs]

302. Recommend!!! Basing your vote on what a few people say on a message board is beyond stupid.

But, I suspect the OP was always a Hillary fan.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

360. Glad you got a chance to read it.

Funny how the OP can show up, declare what everyone had already suspected, drop a grenade, not defend her hysterical rant, and the thread remains open.

How is the OP any better than Bush supporters in 2000 who voted for Bush because he seemed like such a cool guy?

[sandyj999]

125. I feel your pain.

That is the reason I don't come here so much anymore. Too much venom and staying away is the only antidote I have found. And even though our vote didn't count, my husband and I both voted for Hillary in our primary. And if she wins the nomination I will be proud to vote for her. And if not I will have no problem voting for Obama. I just want a Democrat in the White House!!

[WyldRogue]

134. I agree....

.... as long as we kick the Repugs out of offices, my vote goes to WHOEVER the Dem nominee is. The O supporters crying 'If Hill has the nom, I won't vote' needs to grow up. It's thoughts like yours that will help the Repugs keep power.

As I stated before, after ready plenty of threads, 1 thing has come to the forefront:

O supporters will NOT vote for Hill if she indeed wins the nomination.... talk about pettiness to the Nth power.
Divisive, divisive, divisive...guess you people don't really listen to his message otherwise, you would vote for WHOEVER gets the Dem Nom.

[Clinton Crusader]

126. Geez, stay away ONE day and something happens, what happened?

I missed it ! Anyone??

[murielm99]

128. I am supporting Clinton, too.

DU is not the only reason. But I did check out some of the unwarranted things that have been said about her. I did the research on all the accusations against her.

I noticed that the Obama crybabies are the first ones to say, "Both sides are doing it." It is simply not true. For awhile, I kept track. I noticed at first that there were few Clinton supporters here. They were doing nothing but defending their candidate as all sides attacked her. As the campaign went on, I noticed more Obama supporters, especially the newer members, attacking her and her supporters. I do not see the same virulence from anyone else's supporters.

I have mentioned before that I live in Illinois, and I have seen his campaign since its earliest days. I have seen it in ways many people here have not, because I am involved in state and county politics. I have interacted with plenty of his supporters in real time who behave just as badly as the posters on DU.

If he is the nominee, of course I will work for him and vote for him. That is more than I am hearing from many, many Obama supporters, both here and face to face. Those people are not Democrats. They should be ashamed. But that is only one of the reasons they should feel shame.

[heliarc]

284. Since when do attacks on a candidate justify a vote for the candidate?

There has been plenty of name calling and bitterness between Obama and Clinton. There's no reason to look to what followers on one camp or another are saying. Hillary basically called him a slumlord the other day. She's just as capable of libelous chatter... not to mention a supercilious tone.

[Geek_Girl]

129. You may be on to something

I'm considering Hillary for the very same reason, and a few months ago I was a anybody but Hillary supporter.

[murielm99]

130. Check your PM. n/t

[DarienComp]

132. Shouldn't we be

making our voting decisions based on the positions of the candidates who are running?

[Raine]

133. So you vote for or against

someone because of the behavior of that person's supporters instead of the merits of the candidate ... :eyes: ... OK ... whatever. :shrug:

[mckara]

135. Lighten Up Writer

You're not going to find much sympathy when you argue like an unhinged LUNATIC! Your rationale for voting for Clinton on Tuesday sounds more like a tantrum than an argument, and is just as puerile as the careless Obama supporters who periodically post their opinions here also. Grow up and remember, other people may have a better idea of what a leader looks, talks, and acts like, than you!

[Dumak]

136. This feigned outrage is a very juvenile tactic

Nobody in their right mind is going to vote based on what other people on DU are yammering about.

[juajen]

138. Thank you so much for this post.

I have felt those same emotions myself; though, I have been a Hillary supporter from the beginning.

[UALRBSofL]

144. I can understand you feelings

But I'm voting for Clinton because she isn't a typical suit full of empty promises. She is a leader that will bring people together from all party's. She has a good plan for the economy and I like her health care plan. I'm not voting for her specifically for women's issues because that is just one integral part of the issues we face. For what it's worth, thanks for your support and God Bless.

[William769]

139. K&R!

[OnionPatch]

140. I haven't even looked at the pictures.

They have NOTHING at all to do with my decision to vote for Obama.

There has been a lot of petty fighting here between the two camps. I'm sure not letting it influence my decision. If I did, I wouldn't be voting for either of them. My decision is based solely on who can beat the Republican this November. Period.

[mzmolly]

141. I have been disgusted at much of the tone against Hillary Clinton here as well.

Both candidates deserve our support in the GE. I have not gone so far as to support Hillary, but I did go from the Obama column to the uncommitted or Edwards if he's still on our ballot in MN.

[yardwork]

142. Same thing happened to me, which is why I'm supporting Hillary now.

I know that we need to be cautious in drawing conclusions about a candidate based on supporters on the internet. BUT the Obama campaign has been so consistent in their attitude, it begins to tell me something significant about the candidate himself. It started with the response of the Obama campaign to McClurkin, and from there it became the response of Obama supporters here, and eventually I realized that there is a message here, and it says something I don't like very much.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

143. Hillary 08! K&R

[libertee]

146. Amen...I agree..GW cried when our servicepeople returned in coffins..

is that what it takes to make it okay in this country..

[beezlebum]

147. i sympathize

but i'm a bit perplexed as to how vicious forumites who have nothing better to do than spout hatred and bile (read: they have no life outside of teh intarwebs!) could have such a profound influence on your decision. the posters on this forum are not representative of all obama supporters, or john edwards supporters, or hillary clinton supporters, and so on and so forth.

the reasons for voting for or against a candidate or whatever the hell the technical term would be at this stage in the game ought to be based on their platform. like, i'm voting for _________ because she/he believes in ________ and will work for _______ and will change ________ and won't eliminate _______ and because i don't want to vote for mccain, because he wants to stay in iraq for 100 years, and he does not believe in women's rights, nor civil rights, and because he will be bush stepped up several crazytown notches.

and i'm not not voting for mccain because some people who vote for him and post on freeper or wherever they spend their time wallowing in vomit are despicable (and as much as i hate to say it, i do know some very nice, decent people who are voting for mccain...for all the wrong reasons, but nevertheless he is their candidate).

that said, i personally have had things to say about clinton that may or may not have been perceived as a tad on the vile side- and i do apologize if i have offended anyone among her supporters or among those who have yet to choose (and i am among the latter)- however, my reasons for not voting for her are more based on her positions than whether or not she cries and the way she is mistreated for it- and she is definitely very wrongly mistreated for it. as a woman, and plain AS A HUMAN BEING, i am deeply offended that in this day and age people are harangued for, well, being people. (although, i do have to say it, i have to- sometimes, i do get the feeling that the tear/gender card is being played...sorry...sometimes, it just seems that way. i'm not saying that ppl aren't being twerps, nor am i necessarily saying her tears aren't genuine, but...)

still, my vote will not be one based on sympathy or defense but rather on the impact i think a candidate will have on the country and the rest of the world.

i am very saddened that people can be vicious, wicked, vile, despicable, vomitous, putrid, disgusting, and hateful. but i have no doubt that many exceptionally qualified candidates in the last 200 years or so have suffered crushing losses- and thus has america and the entire planet- due to the poor behavior of their "supporters."

[Gman]

148. Way too many freepers are masquerading as Obama supporters

just to disrupt. The right wing is among us now.

[beezlebum]

150. i agree

that is indeed a distinct possibility.

[4edwards]

149. Hillary Clinton is the victim of sexism

I agree that it is unspeakably mean to post that kind of picture of her crying and mean to revel in it. That kind of meanness has trickled down from Karl Rove to both the right and the left.

It reminds me that the so-called "divisiveness" of Hillary Clinton is a product of the sexism of right wingers, aided by the news media, during the 1990's.

I like Hillary Clinton but I am voting for Obama. The main reason I'm voting for him is I think (I hope) he is somewhat less likely to plunge us into war. I also like it that he voted for an amendment in the Senate to ban the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas, an amendment which I understand Hillary voted against. The need to not appear "soft on terrorism" is, unfortunately, one which she shares with the overriding majority of our Democratic senators and representatives. I don't like that. I'd rather that our country was not engaged in threatening and killing citizens of the world. I believe that Hillary Clinton's health care plan is better than Obama's. Who between Hillary and Obama will cave faster when facing the insurance industry --your guess is as good as mine. I like Hillary, her brains, her self-confidence and her daughter. I don't like her vote to go to war against Iraq and I don't like her vote to call the Iranian revolutionary guard a terrorist organization. I completely understand why a lot of men and women will vote for Hillary Clinton. Many of us have fought with ourselves about who to vote for. I am a woman, was an Edwards fan and then had to look again.

[demo dutch]

151. YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!

[jab105]

155. Why are you swayed by foum posters...we could be ummm...anyone...

why not listen to the candidates and decide based on that...

just seems incredibly petty...

I think many people on here are completely nuts (but most aren't - which is why I enjoy DU:)), but that doesn't effect who I will vote for...geesh...

[shellinaya]

156. I'm with you

I feel the same way. She is the most qualified, there is no question of that; even so, I didn't want to support her but now I have to . . . this feels like an attack on women. It's time for women to fight back. I'm supporting Hillary in large part because I've been driven to it by people who hate her.
I wish Obama wasn't so divisive. Even his wife has verbally attacked Hillary and mocked her. They have attacked Bill too, for just saying the truth. Do they want to tear the whole Democratic party apart? I have no love for the party itself either, but this hatred from Obama supporters toward "a woman" is frightening and disgusting. I wonder if Angela Merkel went through this.


I hear men say, "Some day there will be a woman president. Just not *this* woman."

Oh yeah? It's not UP TO YOU. It's up to US to decide that.

I'm tired of men making most of the decisions in this country. Look at the GIANT MESS we are in because of it.

[Andromeda]

157. K&R

.

[Sulawesi]

159. yawn...

[bitchkitty]

160. If supporters' bad manners decided how I voted,

I would never go to the polls. You should choose your candidate, not anyone else.

[stimbox]

161. I am disgusted. I am angry. I am going to vote for Mike Gravel.

[jeff30997]

162. Doh!!!

Wy did I clicked on this thread?


Stupid! Stupid me !:banghead:

[femrap]

163. k and r....

Misogyny is alive and well at DU.

[Chalco]

164. I agree. The hatred of women is feral, visceral, deep and

profound. And, I'm sick of it.

[Indenturedebtor]

178. Yeah

I think that the whole sexism angle is kinda nullified by the whole racism angle. Aside from a couple morons from either camp I have almost never seen either issue broached directly or indirectly.

I shouldn't even be adding more kindling to this rediculous bonfire. Anyone who thinks that Clinton has somehow been unfairly victimised more than Obama is picking and choosing threads to read. At least half of the people I have read in here feigning shock and disgust over the "disgusting Obama supporters" have said less than flattering things about Obama supporters in the past.

We need to attack our candidates' positions, sincerity, etc IMO.

And frankly as a former Edwards supporter I remember being pretty annoyed more often at comments made by HRC supporters than by Obama, Biden, Kuch, etc folks. So what. I'm not voting for anyones supporters.

I hate to be so harsh but this is quite simply one of the dumbest threads I've seen on the home page over about 6 years of reading this forum. :puke:

And frankly it looks like playing the sexism card. Again :puke:

"Oh I can't vote for HRC because Proud2BAmerican said something about Obama I don't like. He must be a racist." Pfah. Can we get back to the issues and voting records now please?

[Oskie]

165. Ugly is coming bigtime......

The forces of greed and deception will relish either one - Obama or Clinton. Clinton knows what's coming; Obama ...I'm not so sure. The GOP elite is not going to let anyone come between them and taxpayer loot so they're waiting, digging up the dirt and loading the ammo: and will blah, blah, change, blah, blah, hope, blah, blah Reagan, blah, blah... a new mind-set... get us anywhere when smear and fear blow 24/7.

Charisma is a salesman.

[Danger Mouse]

172. Good for you.

Get the fuck off that high horse.
There's been enough dirty shit on both sides, trying to make it look like it's all coming from Obama supporters is laughably pathetic.
ON EDIT: And you're going to bully causus goers as well? How charming.
News flash: They can pick whoever the fuck they want. They don't have to listen to you.

[cottonseed]

174. Thank goodness DeNiro uses different criteria when choosing candidates n/t

[angie_love]

175. Geez

Geez I'm an obama supporter and have never made fun of this "crying" thing. My gosh, paint all of us supporters under one umbrella, thats not cool at all. There are many hateful Hillary supporters as well and yet you focus on the few rampant Obama supporters. Ok then, seems like you made your choice long ago. I would never let a supporter sway my vote, my vote is just THAT important to me. And its not anyones to decide but my own.

[Yurovsky]

177. The blood of Iraqi children is on YOUR hands, bub...

as long as you wish to support the illegal war and occupation of Iraq, you are a co-conspirator in the mass murder and rape of an innocent nation.

Voting for Hillary confirms your support for these crimes against humanity.

Shame on you.

[sellitman]

180. I look at DU as entertainment.

Except for real information which is rare I would never let the crap posted here to make my vote one way or the other.

[Didereaux]

181. k time

[Martin Eden]

183. That was a very childish, emotional, illogical response.

It's not illogical or childish to be disgusted at people in this forum.

It's illogical and childish to vote against Barack Obama on the basis of that disgust.

Just because some Obama supporters in this forum have acted like assholes doesn't mean Obama is an asshole.

Clinton supporters have also acted like assholes.

Plenty of assholes to go around.

Assholish behavior in this forum has zilch to do with the candidates themselves.

Posts in this forum can influence my vote when the content is based on facts and reason.

You're making a mistake if you let negative emotionial reaction dictate your vote.

Democrats are supposed to be smarter than that.

[IndieLeft]

207. Well Stated

Maybe writer thinks that people will jump on the gender issue again like New Hampshire. I think that if people vote because they didn't like a commentators comments or a blogger's comments or they thought that someone here was too insensitive then it's hard for me to understand how someone didn't have room to judge a candidate's policies.

Because someone was insensitive writer who we don't even know, seeks to undermine their vote by casting it because they feel sorry for the candidate. Wow!

[robbedvoter]

271. OP has stated her reasons in voting FOR Hillary. You're only reinforcing her reasons

of voting also AGAINST Obama. As you do mine. It will be part of my civic lesson to my kid tomorrow: in 2004 we voted For and the AGAINST. Now we do both. In one action.

[Martin Eden]

349. You must have read a different OP than the one I read

The OP I read gave the following as the main criteria of her vote:

"You disgust me. You disgust me to the point where I absolutely, under NO circumstances, will vote for Barack Obama tomorrow in my state."

She stated the reasons to vote FOR Hillary were evident in the last debate, but she did not delve into those reasons. Personally, I thought they both did very well in that debate.

The title, the content, the gist, the main point of the OP that started this thread is that she will NOT vote for Obama because his supporters in this forum have really pissed her off.

That remains, in my opinion, a childish criteria upon which to base one's vote.

[Piperay]

186. Why do you let your bitterness & hatred

guide your vote, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. :silly: I'm actually glad your not voting for my choice, we need better people on our side than that.

[CaptJasHook]

187. Men Hate Women!!!

Why just the other night I found myself hating my wife. To top it off she hated me multiple times. I don't think it's fair that women can hate me more than once, when I need to wait at least a half hour between hates. That is if I can even summon the hate again that night.

Sigh. All this talk of hate is making me angry again. I can hardly wait to go to bed.

[EndElectoral]

188. Jesus. Man, look at her policies, and decide, not the BS here

[NastyRiffraff]

192. This Edwards supporter still undecided about Obama vs Clinton

I don't base my decision on stupid posts about any candidate. And some posts have been breathtakingly stupid, not to mention vicious. I know there are The Stupids on both sides; however it's overwhelmingly worse on Obama's side, if only because there are more of them on DU.

As I said, I don't decide on the basis on DU; however, due to the hateful posts about Hillary, I've done some research (I've also researched Obama). And, I find myself defending her against the worst of the Obama people. Now, what happens, psychologically, when you start defending someone? Hmm?

I don't hate either candidate. But some Obama supporters aren't doing their candidate any favors.

[DUyellow]

195. I read your subject line and said to myself i am going to reply, and then....

I read your message and it was everything i was going to tell you. Kudos to you. Just keep in mind that the people on this board do not necessarily represent Obama or his supports, same goes for Hillary.

If you are voting tomorrow, good luck and have fun!

[TexanIndian]

196. Well said... Righteous vs Human

For the past 2 elections, I have favored Republicans. For the first time in a long time, I am happy to see that this country could be growing up to finally accept a woman as the Chief Executive. I am also saddened by the serious crap that is being thrown at Hillary by the Righteous (self proclaimed, of course).

Obama gives me creeps. He stands for the stuff I hated in the last 2 Democratic candidates Gore and Kerry. Stiff, condescending, "I am above all you lowly humans" attitude. Hillary comes out as the most human as one can possibly find among the candidates running for the top office. If she is elected, I will vote Democrat this time. If it is Obama, I will vote for Mccain.

[CaptJasHook]

198. Goody, the Crazy Ass Texas Rethuglicans are going to Vote Dem.

Who needs you. Not I. You people have virtually destroyed this nation.
:mad:

[IndieLeft]

200. Talk about irrational. Let's all just calm down...

So as a voter you don't usually vote for policy concerns, issues? You vote for someone because they showed human emotion? And further that if you don't like something that an Obama supporter says then you will punish Obama?

Let me get this straight, you are using your vote to chastise or get back at people who are insensitive? I mean you can use your vote however you want.

So voting for that war resolution that some 4000 people died is... like of no consequence to you? Do you know how many people are crying because of that vote Clinton cast?

I'm sorry but I thought the substance by the vote was issues as well as the human being.

[TexanIndian]

252. I do care for policy matters

I did take the quiz at Glassbooth.org and surprise surprise... Hillary scored 80% and Barack scored 77%... Statistically speaking, they both share similar values (note - not exactly identical set of values, but together, similar to my liking).

It is then a matter of personal likeability. Rethuglicans (as someone else put it) are setting Dems up for a failure in trying to say that Hillary will make it a cake walk for McCain... Read my sig again, I still think there is more growing up that needs to happen before Obama will have a fair shot at the elections. What is wrong in expecting solid experience out of the Chief Executive??

[mrbluto]

257. Agent Provocateurs

Please keep in mind that there are agent provocateurs and sock-puppets galore on this site.

It's not unimaginable that a possibly rare, ill-motivated, unethical Obama supporter has decided to stir up sentiment. Even if it's one in a thousand this is a likely place for such a person to show up.

BTW: I'll probably vote for Hillary in the GE - not with much enthusiasm though. She's a distant second (IMHO) when it comes to what this country needs compared to Edwards, but she's still in it and has experience with what the Republican noise machine is going to do beginning day 2 of a democratic administration.

[kelligesq]

197. Here's worse: Dan Abrams asking: Even if Hillary wins will the media say Obama has won becasuse the

media likes him better than they like HIllary !!!!!!!!!!

The truth comes out.

Not only did the media pick our candidates for us by shutting out coverage
of those they didnt want, but now they are expected to falsely report the
winner, ala Bush 2000.

[beezlebum]

305. you mean like,

they'll "accidentally" say "OSAMA WINS!!

suuuuuuuure. the press just looooooooooves obama...

[kelligesq]

339. check out Feb 4 Dan Abrams show transcript - Swear its true - exposing what media does

[beezlebum]

356. i believe you

and i don't doubt that the media, even dan abrams plays to an agenda. however, i don't think obama is anymore "well-liked" by the media than clinton.

[LSK]

199. well your mistake is to read this wasteland of a forum (GDP) to form your opinion

Have you tried reading the candidates websites and watching debates and CSPAN???

:shrug:

[helderheid]

201. 101 recommends... wow!

[IndieLeft]

203. The comment I made was for "Writer"

So as a voter you don't usually vote for policy concerns, issues? You vote for someone because they showed human emotion? And further that if you don't like something that an Obama supporter says then you will punish Obama?

Let me get this straight, you are using your vote to chastise or get back at people who are insensitive? I mean you can use your vote however you want.

So voting for that war resolution that some 4000 people died is... like of no consequence to you? Do you konw how many people are crying because of that vote Clinton cast?

I'm sorry but I thought the substance by the vote was issues as well as the human being.

[CaptJasHook]

209. Writer flamed out. Dropped a bomb then ran. n/t

And 100+ recommend it
:rofl:

[Seabiscuit]

219. I think this is indicative of the kind of crap being spewn by Obama supporters here that the OP was

addressing.

Don't you people realize how much you alienate not just the opposition but those of us who have supported a third candidate as well?

Obama's never getting my vote, thanks to the childish, churlish, uncivilized behavior of his supporters here on DU.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

222. And Clinton supporters have been paragons of virtue and kindness?

[Danger Mouse]

225. Yes. They are as fresh and pure as newly fallen snow.

:P

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

249. They have taken on the same identity/themes of the Clinton campaign.

They slander, race-bait, and spread ugly lies about Barack Obama, yet Obama supporters are just insufferable!

[Seabiscuit]

256. So bankrobber A, when apprehended, points to bankrobber B? That's the excuse???

Aside from being a logical fallacy, it's thoroughly irresponsible.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

261. What the fuck are you talking about?

I'm pointing out the fact that Clinton supporters really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "political decorum". Her supporters have spent the last three years lauding their candidate to a tiring degree and perpetuating her "inevitable nomination". Since that theory went up in smoke after Iowa, a good number of Clinton supporters have become nasty, unpleasant, and borderline racist. (I have always found them to be obnoxious and insufferable. However, after Iowa they've turned it up several notches.)

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

[Seabiscuit]

289. I'm talking about how you're trying to change the subject to Clinton supporters in response to

my post about Obama supporters. It's disingenuous.

I'm not a Clinton supporter. But as a third-party supporter I must say I've been far more appalled by the behavior of the Obama supporters on DU then anyone else.

You, as an Obama supporter (bankrobber A) attempt to excuse your own bad behavior by pointing to Clinton supporters (bankrobber B's) behavior, as if that were some kind of excuse for your own bad behavior. If that's your defense, you have no defense, and your position/behavior is indefensible and inexcusable.

I know no one usually holds you posters accountable in a thread, but what has this thread, or my post, which you're addressing, to do with HILLARY?

In the battle for President, the highest office in the land, is Obama going to defend himself by saying:

"WELL, HILLARY DID IT TOO"!!

Do you see how juvenile your responses are? Do you even get it?

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

358. Get off it.

I don't support either candidate, but I'm not ignoring the fact that Clinton supporters have been playing this game since November 2004. Before Iowa they would post passive aggressive shit to get non-supporters riled up. When it became apparent things weren't going quite as planned they stepped up their nasty, hateful attacks.

If you hate the content and members of this board so much, why do you post here? Hillaryis44.com may be more to your liking. At least there you can surround yourself with all the other whimpering ignoramuses who blindly support Hillary.

[bowens43]

204. blah blah blah blah blah

[mrbluto]

292. WTF? Are you a two-year-old?

...

[cottonseed]

365. ... because all the adults are voting Hillary to spite mean Obama supporters.

Actually, I think blah blah blah is a fine response to that post.

[bridgit]

205. k&r'd...

:kick:

[Vilis Veritas]

208. 101 rec's, approx 200 posts...not a single reply by OP...

Interesting bit of manipulation...

[Danger Mouse]

211. Wants the attention, unwilling to back up her horse shit.

Shocking. :eyes:

[Vilis Veritas]

215. Over 100 rec's? This is more than horseshit...

Ethernet theater at is best...

I am in no way saying that I favor the tactic...however, it does remind me of this Army MI that I knew a long time ago...he could provoke a nun to spit in the eye of a bishop...

Peace.

[Danger Mouse]

218. It's no surprise coming from someone with such a flair for drama.

:thumbsup:

[IndieLeft]

212. Hmmmm, I wonder.....

Very interesting...

[CaptJasHook]

213. Eggzactamundo, Mein Freunde

Totally funny, if it wasn't such a sad statement of the DU atmosphere of late.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

366. DUers need to stop taking the bait.

It's pathetic.

[CaptJasHook]

214. I think she is one of the Rove plants

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2815932

[Vilis Veritas]

216. Hmmm...

[bridgit]

217. there are some major OPer's & news link droppers that rarely if ever reply...

and DUer's consider them formidable assets to this board, stated as such by no-less than Skinner himself in the past...sometimes people's opinions are theirs and that's the end of it there is no reply, others answer *every single post*; and some of them seem merely attention seekers with yet others only spoiling for a fight

[Canadian_moderate]

220. Get over yourselves people...

and try not to lose sight of the big picture or might find yourselves hating another Republican president in 2009.

BTW, I think to agree that presidents should be able to contain their emotions. It would be rather sad if president Hillary was dealing with a world crisis and broke down in tears. How sad and pathetic would that look to the rest of the world?

[davidthegnome]

221. Sorry you feel that way

I don't believe that most of Obama's supporters are voting for him due to any gender preference. Undoubtedly some are - but generally, those voters are more in McCain's (or Romney's) camp than Obama's. I'm voting for Obama - for numerous reasons, but among them is not a hatred for Clinton, or anything rooted in sexism. If I felt she was the better candidate she would get my vote. If she wins the nomination she will get my vote.

It is only a small number of people, in comparison to those of us here who have decided to support Obama, that have made a mockery of her for crying. In my opinion, we need more of that in politics - people who aren't afraid to show emotion. To me, Dean's scream was one of the things that made him the BEST candidate. I thought to myself... "Now there's a man who's pissed off, excited enough and passionate enough to make a difference."

The nature of the (political) beast, I'm afraid, is that it devours all in it's path, even the victors ultimately. There is a lot of passion, a lot of anger, a lot of doubt, a lot of crying - and there are many questions.

I've been on the fence about whether or not to even vote in the democratic primary, I was so blown away when Kucinich went down so quickly. I question the voting records of both candidates constantly, and am not thrilled about them - but I believe that, who ever wins this nomination will bring change in a positive way. Who ever wins this nomination cannot possibly be as terrible, as corrupt, and as incompetent as our current President.

Not going to get into why I'm supporting Obama over Clinton, would require an even longer rant. But relax, take it easy, we're not genuine haters here, even most of the loudest of us. Just passionate and excited. Things will calm down when this is finally over.

[CoffeeCat]

223. Anyone who bases their precious vote...

...on what they read in an online, anonymous messageboard, isn't thinking too clearly.

It doesn't matter if you're voting for Hillary, Obama or writing in Mickey Mouse. Your
vote should be based on careful research and study of the candidates.

Messageboards are like sandboxes sometimes. You can have a lot of fun in them sometimes,
but they're often full of shit.

I've been offended and insulted plenty of times by what I read on messageboards. I certainly
don't base my voting behavior on what I read in messageboards.

I find this utterly ridiculous.

[davidthegnome]

231. Hmm

What do you base your vote on? The candidate's voting records? How they have served during their time as elected officials? Experience? Passion? I suppose the first and second amount to pretty much the same thing, generally speaking. Undoubtedly the most important.

There's a wealth of information available here at DU, however, and on many other online forums. Once you've learned to factcheck a bit it's quite a lot better than our MSM for gathering information.

I'm just saying - a lot of us are influenced in some ways by what we read here, I am one of them.

[CoffeeCat]

300. I'm not talking about the NEWS and FACTS....

posted here. Yes, there are plenty of articles and information on
this site that provide useful insight and knowledge of the candidates.

The initial poster is suggesting that the bad behavior of Obama people
have incited her to go out and vote against him--and for Hillary Clinton.

Unless I'm misunderstanding her post---her anger against immature posts
is fueling her Clinton vote.

I find that absurd.

[Savannah_H]

reply

...not to mention, Writer, that she has much more experience and could do a better job because of that....

[Skip Intro]

224. A Late K&R.

great post

[Laura PourMeADrink]

226. How sad. Huge mistake.

[countmyvote4real]

228. You’re right. Those are bad reasons NOT to support HRC.

For me, I’m done with the dynasty thing if we other options. Our democracy has been driven into the ditch. We need serious changes. This did not begin with *. Now that the Edwards campaign is “suspended,” Obama is MY only option until or unless I have to settle for my last resort. And I’ll be there with bells on.

Until then, I don’t have to spout (or bring them up, yet again) ridiculous or chauvinistic incidents to justify my choices.

I’m feeling kind of grown-up.

I can’t say how long that will last.

[lynch03]

229. The general public might have bought it the first time...but not a second time...

We see through Hillary's tactic of conveniently crying before a significant contest, and were attacked for being skeptical. I'm sure you were such an undecided voter, give me a break. Go Obama.

[robbedvoter]

273. How is your disgusting answer the second time any different? Mind you, the first

time - again - no one voted because of :nopity:. We showed up to vote because of your ugly reaction to it :argh:. Anger, not pity. Some day, you'll get it.

[Writer]

230. Hello, everyone.

Yes, this was my going nuclear. I don't like getting this upset, but there it is. There is not much I can do about it now.

I've read down the list and most of the reactions are kind of funny. One item appeared about my "always being with" Clinton. I was honestly undecided, then leaning toward Hillary, and now completely with Hillary. I posted this in an earlier thread, and it will do a better job of explaining why I leaned, then landed, in Hillary Clinton's camp.

Thanks, and I'm sorry to have caused such a rumble in GDP... I know it was very peaceful until my thread. ;)

~Writer~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4389179&mesg_id=4389581

[Danger Mouse]

233. Glad you derived amusement from our reactions.

Many of us derived amusement from the fact that you let the immaturity of posters on an internet message board influence your support for a candidate.

[Writer]

234. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get into a flame war with you.

Only I understand fully the process that lead to my decision. I'm sorry if that doesn't please you, but I am satisfied with my decision and how I reached that decision.

~Writer~

[Danger Mouse]

236. Then why post a very simplistic distillation of that process here?

All you were doing was throwing the rock at the proverbial hornet's nest.
Besides, I'm sick of the superior attitude of Hillary supporters who seem to think that their shit doesn't stink.
The truth is, the whole forum reeks, and will until the primaries are done with.

[Writer]

238. I'll answer your question.

The posts regarding Hillary Clinton's crying/coughing jag/whatever were the last straw for me, and I got very angry. I'm sure you've felt the same way at some point, too.

It IS nasty in here, but I have a right to have a say. I have provided my opinion, as inflammatory as it was, and that's that.

[Danger Mouse]

240. You have a right to have a say. I have a right to criticize your opinion.

There have been plenty of anti-Obama posts here that have angered me quite a bit, but not to that level.

[Writer]

244. I really don't care if people criticize me for my opinion.

People in here are going to do that.

If I'm reading you right, I've greatly upset you, and I'm sorry about that. At least it seems that way from reading up and down the thread here.

But regardless of who ends up as the nominee in August, I'm going to work for that person. While there isn't much daylight policy-wise between Clinton and Obama, there sure as hell is a lot of daylight between the Democrats and Republicans this year.

~Writer~

[Danger Mouse]

245. It's not just you, but the end result of many posts by supporters of Hillary...

that struck me as hypocritical. Complaining about attacks by Obama supporters when they themselves have particpated and encouraged such attacks.
obama's supporters are no better.
Did you see the 'Obama is a smoker thread'? Or the 'Maybe Obama will pick up an old habit' thread? Or how Obama supporters are called cultists, deluded, brainwashed?
How is that ANY better than what Hillary bashers have done?
They're two sides of the same foul coin imho.

[Writer]

247. Well, sure! Of course there are nasty attacks flying both ways.

However, those particular attacks affected me in a very personal way because of the struggles I've had as a woman during my adult years.

It's not disagreement. It's not bashing. It's HATE. And as you can see by the response to my nuke thread here, I'm now the object of that hate because I have decided to take a side and voiced my opinion in a very inflammatory manner. You'd have similar reactions if you posted something similar.

People hate because they're irrational, duplicitous, and cannot tolerate even one brick being displaced from the wall that constructs their world view.

I don't like it, but then again, I think the Internet supports this behavior. It's communication anarchy here.

~Writer~

[angie_love]

266. Writer, just wondering what you think of people calling Obama supporters cultists?

and other vile nasty things? I've never seen anything like it. Its unbelieveable.

[Writer]

267. I've seen it before.

That comes from the emotional zeal in the Obama camp, I think. It's like any campaign where the supporters have fallen in love with their candidate. (What's that old adage: Republicans fall in line; Democrats fall in love?) Anyway, I don't like any of the insults hurdled either way. It does neither camp any good.

However, I don't think any campaign can claim that they have earned the trophy for garnering the most insults. I remember four years ago with Dean and Clark (I was a Clarkette), which was also rather vile. Their platforms had more identifiable differences, however.

This particular issue hit me in a very personal way, as I explained to elrond.

[angie_love]

270. The very same can be said of some Hillary supporters

I've heard them call Obama supporters "nasty", "childish", "immature". A whole host of vile language. But vote the way you want. If you go outside the world of DU you'll see that most Obama supporters are friendly and you cannot base your judgement on the few when the many are good. But your vote is your vote, personally I don't care how you vote, if its b/c of someone who said something bad about Hillary then so be it. My vote means more to me than letting someone other than the candidates influence it.

[Writer]

272. Well, unfortunately, I can't open my brain and place its contents on a page...

so that people can see exactly what process I used to arrive at my decision.

Of COURSE there are many good Obama supporters out there! However, this particular insult was the straw that broke the camel's back. I think it was beyond reproach, imho. I haven't been "out there" - I've only been active this year in a congressional campaign - so I don't know about the real environment in the presidential trenches.

So, indeed, I have arrived at this conclusion after several incidences that helped me form my world view. So now I see the world as I do because of the personal experiences I bring to the table as well as EVERYTHING I have seen, heard, and read from the campaign.

But I am glad I have reached a decision because it's been very tough. There was a good field of candidates this year.

[Danger Mouse]

367. I'm sorry, but you're still letting insults on the internet make your decision for you.

I have difficulty respecting that sort of outlook.

[goodgd_yall]

243. Oh....I see you're not joking.

Glad to have you on board!!

I've really come to dislike many of the Obama supporters here. Others will disagree with me, but I think they are a lot nastier than the Clinton people. And, yes, the sexism toward Hillary is absolutely disgusting.

[LittleBlue]

232. Good for you. You prove people can really be simple-minded

You are influenced by followers and can't make your own decision. You let others decide for you.

You were meant to be a Clinton supporter.

[Roland99]

237. DLC. 'nuff said. Boo on her.

[existentialist]

239. Oooops, accidentally posted under my husband's

username, deleted.

[goodgd_yall]

242. Really? You're not joking, are you?

[SoDesuKa]

246. Vindictive Yes, Petty No

I was one of hundreds of thousands of protesters who clogged New York streets in bitter cold to demonstrate our opposition to Bush's planned invasion of Iraq. Imagine our outrage when Senator Clinton, after giving marvelous speeches opposing the war, suddenly turned around and voted for it.

I prayed I would live to see the day when I could pay Hillary back for that betrayal of our trust. That day has come. I am overjoyed to vote against her.

A bhuí le Rí na bhfeart go bhfeiceam
Muna mbíonn beo 'na dhiaidh ach seachtain
Gráinne Mhaol agus mile gaiscioch
Ag fógairt fáin ar Ghallaibh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxRj-ejoJaM

[Bonobo]

248. SoDesuYo. Sono Touri DesuYo.

[Skittles]

263. but that is fine

the poster is decrying the amount of shit against Hillary that has nothing to do with the issues

[WorseBeforeBetter]

250. Dear Mods: Can we please have an "UN"recommend feature?

Wasn't there recent talk of keeping these "nanny nanny boo boo, my candidate is better than yours" threads off of the Home Page? They've been relegated to GD: Primaries ... can we keep them there? I'm bound and determined to get DU's home page back to the substance it once was. I'd like to again recommend this site to people, but lately? NFW.

[Barrymores Ghost]

255. Yours gets my vote for Post of the Month....

...do we have that award to bestow, here? I'm kinda new.

[Barrymores Ghost]

254. Well, THAT's an astonishingly deep rationalization for deciding to vote....

...for one candidate over another. Maybe you'd care to delineate your take on her positions, versus those of Obama's, on the topics du jour?

No?

Damn. Thought there might be an honest opportunity for discussion here.

Guess we should all justy throw ourselves to the GOP wolves right now, and save ourselves the f***ing time and effort of enduring the Democratic National Convention.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

318. Yeah, when you see 136 recommends you'd think there would be...

intelligent discussion, but this thread is ugly and downright stoopid -- near zero substance. There's still opportunity for honest discussion on DU, but it seems to be fewer and farther between (not like back in the Glory Days). If I remember correctly, there was more of an emphasis on Latest Breaking News and Activism on the Home Page, not these idiotic personal attack threads.

I can hardly wait for the "I told you so" threads after the inauguration, regardless of whether an R or Dem wins...

[pauldg0]

258. Your a plant........

...folks don't fall for this jokester.

Neither of them did well against Edwards. Vote for Edwards tommorrow.

[kelligesq]

260. I cant blame you - the animosity here has been disgusting,turned me off their guy, I'm going with

They're now saying this is goingto be a brokered convention

That makes John Edwards a winner

[ZinZen]

259. Spare me. You have always supported Hillary

[jjr5]

264. Woah, woah, hold on for a second. . .

I know you are upset, and I am very sorry. However, I think that it would be wrong to vote for someone just because you feel bad for him her. It's important to make sure that you vote for the most qualified candidate, and to make a fully informed decision, not to vote out of passion or emotion.

[leftofthedial]

269. Do not despair, fair Writer.

I will annunciate for you.



"Hear ye! Hear ye! Writer intends to vote for Hillary Clinton!"

[robbedvoter]

274. And she will be mindful that her vote is also against Obama & sexism he engenders

in his supporters. It's what OP said - but thatks for the attempt to interpret for her. Patronizing seems to be what most here do very well.

[leftofthedial]

278. of all the themes that recur in the primary debates here on DU,

alleged sexism is, by FAR, the stupidest and most baseless.

[Stand and Fight]

276. Writer, as always passionate and keen analysis.

I have become a staunch Hillary Clinton supporter for the same reasons. The hatred toward her on this board is beyond the pale. Quite frankly, I have also noticed that on a great many issues DU is out of the main stream as much as they are prone to fall for the media's tripe hook, line, and sinker. Therefore, like you, I am committed to seeing Barack Obama solidly defeated and going down in flames. Whereas, previously I was motivated to get Bush out of office, I am determined to make sure Obama does not get into office -- this comes from an American of African descent. Glad to have you in the fold...

[Stand and Fight]

277. Oh yes! Kicked and recommended! n/t

[Finite]

279. So..

you're doing exactly what Hilary intended when she started crying?

"Hmm.. I'm neck and neck in the polls, better get the female vote behind me. It worked in New Hampshire, why not again?"

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

280. weak....stupid....easily manipulated....ect......n/t

[davidthegnome]

281. Jeez.

I don't think I've seen any real amount of sexist bigotry on DU. I've seen people attack her personality - imply, or come right out and say that she's fake, but I haven't seen anyone attack her specifically due to her gender. We may be divided in our choice of candidates, but I do not believe it has to do with her being a woman. It certainly does not in my case, I'd vote for anyone I felt could do the best job. I felt that was Kucinich, now only Obama and Clinton are left to me, and I'm going with Obama because I feel he has a stronger position regarding the Iraq war.

While I haven't seen any blatant sexist discrimination here, I haven't really seen any blatant racism either. Would I overlook a person I feel to be a better candidate in order to have a female President? No. If Clinton's positions were anything like those held by Kucinich, I'd go dance in the street naked for her campaign if the occasion called for it.

The same would be true in reverse, of course. But to use sexism and racism against each other when I don't really see anyone guilty of it... at least not here, to me, seems counter-productive. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe all Obama supporters are misogynistic. Maybe all Clinton supporters are racist. Maybe it's a load of shit and we should stick with what is valid.

Vote for who ever you like, for whatever reason you choose. But the accusations of sexism and racism are both ill founded, or so it seems to me.

[Guava Jelly]

282. Good luck today Senator Obama

Or should I say President Obama
:hi:
And good luck to all
Peace

[katmondoo]

285. I did like Obama until a week ago

Since then I feel he has become a cult type leader. I am now firmly in Hillary's camp.

[Libby2]

286. Same here.

[Perry Logan]

287. As the OP says to the Hillary-haters, "You are an abomination to this party."

[ExPatLeftist]

288. So what you seem to be saying...

...is basically that you are going to let your perceived assholishness of a few individuals that are proclaimed supporters of one candidate decide for you who you are going to vote for, rather than the issues and the candidates' stances on them, despite the fact that there are hateful people on all sides of the issue and that no one here speaks officially for either candidate? Let a couple of jerks sway you to vote contrary to them when they do not even represent the candidate they nominally support?

You will of course do as you like, but too me that seems to be extremely illogical - not to mention an exceedingly underwhelming, vindictive, and petty reason to cast a vote in ANY direction.

[THUNDER HANDS]

291. wait, what's your rush, what's your hurry

You gave me such a...
fright! I thought you was a ghost!
Half a minute, can't ya sit?
Sit ya down!
Sit!
All I meant is that I haven't seen a customer for weeks.
Did ya come here for a pie, sir?
Do forgive me if my head's a little vague.
Ugh!
What is that?
But you'd think we had the plague.
From the way that people
keep avoiding!
No you don't!
Heaven knows I try, sir!
But there's no one comes in even to inhale!
Right you are, sir, would you like a drop of ale?
Mind you I can hardly blame them!
These are probably the worst pies in London.
I know why nobody cares to take them!
I should know!
I make them!
But good? No...
The worst pies in London...
Even that's polite! The worst pies in London!
If you doubt it take a bite!

[itcfish]

293. I Am With You!

I am voting for Hillary because I believe she is the best qualified for the job. Edwards was my first choice, but he is out and I refuse to vote for the race baiting, raygun supporting Obama. We in the democratic party have allowed the media and the republicans to select our candidate. If we lose the WH it will be all our fault. Thank you for letting me sound off.

[namvet73]

294. I suggest you LEAVE YOUR HUSBAND ALONE!!

unless he freely seeks your opinion. Keep Democracy alive in your own household.

I understand your frustration and I disagree with the pettiness of Hillary haters. My wife and I both voted for Hillary, but I came to my decision on my own and I would have deeply resented it if my wife tried to MAKE ME vote for her choice. We discussed the merits and flaws of each and I respected her opinion, but since I like both candidates and many of my relatives are Republican and Hillary Haters, I had to carefully think to myself how I would vote with complete disregard for what others think how I would vote, and base my vote on MY OWN reasoning. My brother in law has bashed the Clintons for years not knowing that I was a Democrat. I got sick of it and finally told them that my wife and I were Democrats and did not like Bush so they would be more aware of our standing.

My wife and I have an excellent marriage of almost 17 years and it's because neither one of us MAKES the other do anything by strong arm twisting, emotional or otherwise. We respect each others' choices.

My first choice was John Edwards (my jobs over the years had been off-shored) and she respected that, even though she was always for Hillary Clinton. We are married but individuals still. Fortunately we have the same values and belong are both socially progressive and fiscally conservative with our own finances. I did ask my wife for her opinion and why she liked her candidate, since Edwards dropped out. But if she were the type to try to MAKE ME do things, I would not be interested in her opinion.

Men & Women do not like to be pushed around by their spouses whether they show it or not!

[joshcryer]

309. If you don't take the advice of your wife and she doesn't give it very soundly...

...then what kinda man are you?!? Haha, just kidding. :)

[Bitwit1234]

299. You are allowed sexist remarks hmmm wonder why

we were told we couldn't post the kind against the other candidate. Guess the campaign is scued..always has been.

[EnviroBat]

303. WEEAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Dawgs]

304. My wife(a former Hillary supporter) and I voted for Obama this morning.

She changed her mind because of Hillary's "crying" in NH.

See, my wife liked Hillary because she was a strong woman. Getting emotional is not a way to get my wife's support.

[WeRQ4U]

308. So you're not basing your vote on issues either then?

And instead are deciding to vote for her because, essentially, you feel bad for her? You're going to pull the lever to spite all those people that took shots at her.

There ARE issues. There ARE people who will choose their candidate for reasons other than gender. Apparently, you are not one of them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

310. IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, OBAMA SUPPORTERS!!!!!

FEEL BAD, YOU BASTARDS!!!!!

FEEL BAD, I SAY!

:rofl:

[9119495]

311. I just donated $150 to the Obama campaign...

thanks for the motivation.

[cottonseed]

363. I just got back from voting for Obama

and I did it with a smile on my face!

[libbygurl]

312. Yay! Go Hillary! nt

[snooper2]

315. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..

You let one message board on all the Internets sway your vote.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Go ahead and vote for Hillary INC. and be PROUD :evilgrin: Maybe if your lucky you will have two corporate whores to choose from in the General...

[indimuse]

317. In order to plan your future you must know your past..

Unfortunately...WE don't know Obama's past..He won't release his records from State Senate..He said.."They were lost!!!""" look it up...Chicago Time Sun..Tim Russert asked...ALL we know is what has been manufactured by MSM and What Obama says...WE do know he IS connected though to Rezko/Rezmar ( personal and Business)..which will start trial on the 25th of Feb..WE do know he was around 43 when he decided to run for POTUS..after PROMISING the DEM party he would NOT run this term...LIAR..WE do know that!I want to know WHO is REALLY backing him...WHO CREATED OBAMA?

[gristy]

323. What's that?

Lost records? And you say I can look it up to see that it is true? But you don't provide a link and an excerpt? Well, I'm kinda busy, so I probably won't look it up myself, but you've certainly put great doubt in my mind about Obama. And you also say he had promised not to run!?? Oh boy, I think I'll vote for Clinton today!

:rofl:

[indimuse]

326. Obama: I didn’t have a schedule. I was a state senator.

Obama records requests prove fruitless

By: Mike Allen
Nov 11, 2007 09:22 PM EST



Candidate who criticizes Clinton failure to disclose papers has dodged questions about his Illinois records.
Photo: AP


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Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) dodged questions Sunday about releasing papers from his eight years as an Illinois state senator, and his campaign has not answered records requests from the state’s two largest newspapers.

Obama’s campaign has prodded Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) to make available additional records of her communications during her husband’s presidency.

In the Democratic presidential debate in Philadelphia on Oct. 30, Obama said to Clinton: "We have just gone through one of the most secretive administrations in our history, and not releasing, I think, these records at the same time, Hillary, as you're making the claim that this is the basis for your experience, I think, is a problem."

On Nov. 3, the Obama campaign sent out a letter from two leaders of his Iowa campaign, pressing Clinton to release her White House schedules before the Iowa caucuses.

“Fully releasing these records is in keeping with the spirit of the process that makes the Iowa caucus so special,” the letter says.

But two Chicago newspapers have said the Obama campaign has not responded to their requests for comparable papers from his career.

On NBC’s “Meet the Press” on Sunday, moderator Tim Russert asked Obama about the papers from his state legislative days, from 1997 to 2004.

Obama first said, “We did not keep those records.”

He then elaborated: “Well, let’s be clear.


“In the state Senate, every single piece of information, every document related to state government was kept by the state of Illinois and has been disclosed and is available and has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by news outlets in Illinois.

“The stuff that I did not keep has to do with, for example, my schedule. I didn’t have a schedule. I was a state senator. I wasn’t intending to have the Barack Obama State Senate Library. I didn’t have 50 or 500 people to, to help me archive these issues.”

On Friday, Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that she had asked Obama at a news conference: “Do your state senate papers still exist? If they do, just where are they? And would you ever intend to make them public to be responsive to some requests?”

Sweet wrote that he replied: "Nobody has requested specific documents.”

But the Chicago Tribune has reported that it “requested documents from his time in Springfield and never received a response.”

And Sweet wrote of her own paper, “The Chicago Sun-Times has also been asking about Obama's papers.”

Russert pressed Obama, who has touted his service in Springfield as proof of his experience, about his records of meetings with lobbyists.

“I did not have a scheduler, but, as I said, every document related to my interactions with government is available right now,” Obama said. “And, as I said, news outlets have already looked at them.”

Asked by Russert if he would commit to publishing his schedule each day, as his colleague Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.), does, Obama said: “Well, you know, these days I have a public presidential schedule that I think everybody has access to.”

The Republican National Committee has kept up a near-daily drumbeat demanding release of the Clinton papers.

RNC spokesman Danny Diaz said of Obama’s reticence on records: “Barack Obama is a rookie senator with few accomplishments. Perhaps he’s reluctant to inform the public about his activities in Springfield because they demonstrate a lack of leadership at a state level as well.”

[indimuse]

327. Obama: he wasn't sure where any cache of records might have gone"It could have been thrown out.

"I don't have - I don't maintain - a file of eight years of work in the state Senate because I didn't have the resources available to maintain those kinds of records," he said at a recent campaign stop in Iowa. He said he wasn't sure where any cache of records might have gone, adding, "It could have been thrown out. I haven't been in the state Senate now for quite some time."

Obama's statement that he has no papers from his time in the Illinois statehouse - he left in 2004 - stands in stark contrast to the massive Clinton file stored at the National Archives: an estimated 78 million pages of documents, plus 20 million e-mail messages, packed into 36,000 boxes. While any file from Obama's time in the state Senate would be far smaller, the idea that no papers exist at all is questioned by one historian.

"Most of those guys do keep this stuff, especially the favorable stuff. They've all got egos," said Taylor Pensoneau, a historian who has written about Illinois legislators and governors and worked with them as a lobbyist for the coal industry. "It goes in scrapbooks or maybe boxes. I don't think it's normal practice to say it's all discarded."










http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/11/15/news/doc473b8492b009e593715711.txt

[AngryAmish]

320. You forgot: "I want you to stay off my lawn."

[boricua79]

321. so you vote because some online posters got you angry

it shows the rest of us that you have absolutely no independent capacity for thinking.

I, on the other hand, will vote for Obama, not because I'm angry at Clinton posters on DU, but because I dislike "business as usual" DLC-politics, and have always disliked how that branch of the Democratic party has corrupted the Democratic party to the point that sometimes it doesn't distinguish itself from the Republican party. Lieberman, Clinton, etc....all DLCists, and I hate their policies.

You see....THAT's how you come up with an independent criteria for your vote.

But, hey, throw your vote to Hillary. Just don't cry when she goes Lieberman on you.

[mistertrickster]

343. Damn right. Who votes for somebody based on another candidate's SUPPORTERS?!

Doesn't even make good nonsense . . . .

[From The Left]

322. A Vote for Hillary is a Vote for McCain

Hillary's national negatives are over 50%.

In the General Election, she would lose to McCain. On the contrary, Obama would win in the General Election against McCain.

So, unless you're a double agent trying to elect McCain, please don't throw your vote away on Hillary.

[Hissyspit]

325. A reason for voting against is her vote for IWR - that's underwhelming?

I don't think so...

Not meaning to defend anyone's behavior here, but you lost me there.

[IronLionZion]

328. I'll pray for you

and anyone else who bases their votes on a few posts on an online forum.

O8)

[greengestalt]

330. Be honest then, vote Republican

If Hillary had run aggressively, in 2000, keeping perhaps Gore again as Veep, I'd have eagerly voted for her.

But, no, she's become an insider. The rich monied elite and by default the Republicans are her true masters. If she gets elected, she'll keep the war going on and on and on so they earn a dime for every dollar borrowed in our names for the war. She'll make sure the rich still get their tax cuts, but likely raise taxes on everyone else to cover them.

I've heard a rumor that she's a "Covert" Republican who's there to destroy the Democratic party. I now believe it. And I wasn't "On the fence", I used to hope Hillary would be President...in 2000...

This election seems to me like a game of "Hot Potato".
Dubya has spent and spent and spent in true "Borrow and Spend" Republican fashion. He has squandered so much, the bills will be devastating when they truly come due. And most are to China, a country that will now replace us in the world stage thanks to his actions. Whoever is next in power will really have a lousy job that will hurt him and his party. In principle, Republicans would want a Democrat in so they can go "We won this war, the Democrats snatched it from the arms of victory into the jaws of defeat!" However, in RL, having possibly a true "left winger" in power is nightmarish. Dubya's election was clearly faked, according to the G.A.O.

Rather than spend a whole presidency trying to undo the previous administration's damage, as Clinton did in his term, it would be simpler to say "Dubya was a fake, illegal president. Every law, every tax break, every loan he made is null and void due to the precedent of the 'immoral or illegal' contract being unenforceable in court." That would cause a massive shock to the elites now owing severe back taxes, not to mention all those facing real jail, or in the case of Libby going BACK to jail...

On the other hand, a Republican president would have to deal with all the rioting and social unrest continuing Dubya's plans would cause...

So, the best choice would be a true sell-out like Hillary seems to be. One who'll grind and destroy any idealism left in the party so they can keep feeding the rich elite short term profit and bandage current problems off for later. Like the person who 'allegedly' fixed the vote in Florida, she'll have a VERY rich retirement package waiting for her, so what will she care if she further damages our country?

[Bentcorner]

331. Why not let your husband vote for who he wants?

[AngryOldDem]

364. Somehow, I don't think he had much choice.

Nothing like casting a vote out of sheer spite; spite, I might add, incited by a message board. To me, that would be a sign that I needed to take a break from this place for awhile.

But at least she has a reason. I guess.

[rucognizant]

333. If you want to hate............

HATE the Minority Leader OBSTRUCTRIONIST! MItch McConnell! He NEEDS TO GO!
He is down there pushing thru the FISA bill without a quorum; the majority of Repugs. WHO made it a point to be present on this "SUPER TUESDAY, voted to vote witht he "quorum they HAVE TODAY, rather than wait for a real quorum!
He is also dissing the stimulus package, playing games with that as well.
I'm PISSED. Because as a Senior Citizen, He is calling me a "pet project" Pet PROJECT? No I am a Mother, Grandmother, accomplished Artist, and on a scale of 1 - 10, as a citizen I AM A 10!) But Social Security, & Medicare & Veterns Care are all considered "PET PROJECTS" of the Dems.!!
Harry Reid & Dick Durbin are citing George Orwell's 1984, there on the Senate Floor! Senator Byrd, trying to speak is overwhelmed by tears..........

Do NOT HATE HILLARY OR OBAMA, or their supporters...........! It's wasted energy for a very NASTY Battle to come!

[nankerphelge]

336. Not impressed...

If we're judging the candidates based on their worst supporters, none of them deserves a vote. I happen to like both Clinton and Obama and think both of them would make great presidents.

[dicknbush]

337. Obamas next book will be titled...

The Audacity of Hoping.....that the property next to your million dollar porperty that you just bought is bought by a crony one day and sold to you the next day for less then what the crony paid for it...YEee Haaa!

[cd3dem]

361. The Little Engine That Could

[mistertrickster]

341. You know why there're so many "I support Hillary" posts and so few "I LUV Obama" on DU?

Because while you people are sitting around bellyaching, we're out organizing.

Hillary peaked long ago.

GOBAMA!

[cd3dem]

362. because we can't stand watching CNN or MSNBC any more

[krabigirl]

346. The anger and hate makes me sad, too.

I just experienced a loss in my personal life (don't want to go into it now), and all of this seems so petty and makes me sad for the human race. :(

I already voted for Edwards absentee, but I don't know what I would have done today after what's happened recently.

[Downtown Hound]

350. Yeah, I'm sure you just made that decision

You've always supported Hillary, be realistic. Now that she's not doing as well as you'd like, you pull the sexism card. That's a real cheap shot on your part.

There is a lot of sexism regarding Hillary Clinton, mostly from the right but from he left too. But if you can't admit that there are legitimate reasons as to why Hillary makes a lot of us nervous, from her Iraq stance to the fact that she has less of a chance of winning in Novemeber, then I have nothing more to say to you.

I hope that when your candidate goes down in flames today you won't take it too hard. Just know that with most of us who voted against her, sexism had nothing to do with it.

[Maineman]

351. Last minute manipulation perhaps?

I was expecting such.

[happygoluckytoyou]

353. I PLEDGE....... WHOEVER WINS THE PRIMARY GETS MY VOTE IN NOVEMBER

THE GOP LOVES TO POST HERE.... IF THIS ONE WINS I WONT VOTE FOR THE OTHER...

THEY ARE TRYING TO DIVIDE THE DEMOCRATS...

I PREFER OBAMA, BUT CLINTON IS RIGHT BEHIND, AND EDWARDS WAS THERE TOO....
--------------------EVERY ONE OF THEM GETS MY VOTE

[greyghost]

354. Some of the people on this forum need to...

get over themselves.

Do you understand the term SUPER DELEGATE?

That's what this process will come down to.

May the best PERSON win.

[Writer]

355. "Who cares?"

"WHO CARES?" by Gnarls Barkley


Basically I'm complicated.
I have a hard time taking the easy way.
I wouldn't call it schizophrenia.
But I'll be at least 2 people today.

If thats ok

And I can go on and on and on... but who cares?

It's deep how you can be so shallow.
And i'm afraid 'cause I have no fear.
And I didn't believe in magic.
Until I watched you disappear.

I wish you were here

And I can go on and on and on... but who cares?

You see, everybody is somebody.
But nobody wants to be themselves.
and If I ever wanted to understand me
I'll have to talk to someone else.

'cause every little bit helps.

And I can go on and on and on... but who cares?

Feels like...the surreal life.
But it's still nice.
Wish I could live twice,
and I still might,
if these wounds heal right.
I see a little light,
even though it's still night.

Feels like...surreal like.
But its still nice.
Wish I could live twice,
and I still might,
if these wounds heal right.
I see a little light,
even though it's still night.

And I can go on and on and on... but who cares?

And I can go on and on and on... but who cares?



(Heck - it's my thread... no one's reading my additional posts anyway, so I can post whatever I want. :P)

~Writer the Bored~