Hillary's Florida margin was down to only 4 percent by election day voters.

[madfloridian]

This refers to the voters ON election day. Feel free to tell me I am wrong, and then provide proof. Shows a pattern and momentum for Obama. This is on edit.

This might be a reason for early voting to start later on. The ballots went out in December in Florida. Those early voters made up 59% of the total.

Note how the advantage she held over Obama diminished greatly as primary election day neared on January 29.

Florida results show strong late momentum for Obama

Despite losing the state overall by 17 points, Obama actually won more support than Clinton from voters who made up their minds in the last three days (46 percent to 38 percent), in the last week (39-31) and in the last month (47-40).

Clinton did defeat Obama among Floridians who decided on a candidate on the day of the primary. But overwhelmingly, Clinton's support came from those who made up their minds over a month ago (63 percent to 27 percent), and from early voters who used absentee ballots (50-31). Floridians began receiving absentee ballots in late December. According to the exit polls, those early deciders and early voters made up fully 59 percent of Florida's Democratic electorate.

The results seem to indicate that Obama picked up significant momentum in Florida following his victories in Iowa and South Carolina, as well as his high-profile endorsements (49 percent of Florida voters said Ted Kennedy's support was important to their decision).

..."But critically -- and perhaps as an indicator of close elections to come -- Clinton's margin of victory among Election Day deciders was the narrowest of all: 34 percent to 30 percent."

That is just amazing. It is making a lot of people here think again about exactly how early early voting should start.

It does show great momentum for Obama. It also show why the Hillary campaign has changed their position on the DNC sanctions. Last September the campaign said they would honor and respect the role of the first four states.

“We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process,” Patti Solis Doyle, the Clinton campaign manager, said in a statement.

But now Mark Penn vows to fight for those delegates.

That is not sitting well with some.

Most of the voters in Florida fully expect that their votes will not be wasted again -- they too have a voice at the convention, and Hillary has asked her delegates to support their being seated.

Florida's Democratic leaders supporting Hillary were at that rally in Davie, Florida, where Bill Nelson spoke passionately.

"In this primary, some even tried to silence our state," Nelson said as he endorsed Clinton from the stage Tuesday night. "Hillary Clinton will never let that happen."

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton (second from left) thanks supporters with Congressman Bill Nelson of Florida, Congressman Alcee Hastings of Florida, Miami Mayor Manny Diaz and U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-F.L.) (left-right) after polls closed at the Signature Grand in Davie, Florida on Tuesday, January 29, 2008.

They are going to challenge the rules since they won the state. I can see why now. Down to a four percent margin on election day...that probably shook them.

This forum today is overrun by posters asking who "punished" Florida. I think it is being done to divert attention from the fact that the Hillary campaign is going to go up against the DNC and the rules.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

1. she won in early votes, she won in late votes. Obama lost both.

[madfloridian]

2. Margin down to 4 percent by election day. Momentum for Obama.

Let's not deny there is a distinct pattern.

As long as this board is being used to bash the DNC, then I will talk about Florida's role and guilt. And the fact that Hillary is going to fight her own party, just like Florida did.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

[leftynyc]

16. Let's not deny

that the polls have been shown to be full of shit this primary season.

[madfloridian]

27. I don't deny that at all.

In fact the polls have been most misleading.

[krkaufman]

51. Are we talking opinion polls or exit polls?

The two are distinctly different and have different degrees o' accuracy.

[madfloridian]

52. Exit polls....a couple of quotes from the OP

"Yet a closer look at the exit surveys shows some notably positive trends for Clinton's chief rival, Sen. Barack Obama."

"According to the exit polls, those early deciders and early voters made up fully 59 percent of Florida's Democratic electorate.

The results seem to indicate that Obama picked up significant momentum in Florida following his victories in Iowa and South Carolina, as well as his high-profile endorsements (49 percent of Florida voters said Ted Kennedy's support was important to their decision)."

[krkaufman]

56. Gotcha. I just posted an updated rant regarding my chief gripe re: the Florida primary ...

... updated to account for the exit poll data, and the critical factor that Obama's late momentum may have played in the timing of Clinton's request to seat the Florida delegates at the convention.

see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4318020&mesg_id=4329729 (just a couple posts down)

[madfloridian]

59. You made that point better than I did...about the timing.

It has been so hard watching all the news here, seeing Dean and the DNC being ripped apart, and Nill Nelson put on a pedestal. The timing was so typical.

I have been disappointed in the Florida bloggers overall. They are organized and getting very strong. However their interests lay with the state, right or wrong. That is not what bloggers are supposed to be about. They should have defended the national party because they all knew Florida went along.

Credit to one who really told it like it was....Pushing Rope.

One brave Florida blogger.

[krkaufman]

62. Yeah, the ploy seemed pretty transparent, to me, and so I was surprised ...

... not to hear ANY commentary on it. (in regards to the timing of the request being a manueuver to bump her vote up)

Did *you* see/hear any local news coverage of Hillary's call for seating of the delegates, or have you heard from anyone who has said that that was their reason for voting for her?

Sorry to hear you were caught somewhere in the middle of it. Yeah, there's plenty of finger pointing going on, but your comment that the primary could have been pushed back to Feb 5th, Super Tuesday, and nullified the sanctions drives-up my ire at the FL Dem leaders who stuck with the early date.

Unfortunately, the end result may be a lot of Floridians taking out their frustration on whoever is our nominee in November. The more things change...

[madfloridian]

63. Just that one week would have let the delegates count.

Anything I hear is outrage that the mean DNC took our votes away. That is all the people know to think. The media and the Florida bloggers have fallen down on the job.

THe DNC has not tried to defend their decision, because I doubt it would even matter.

I have written reporters with facts about what Florida leaders did, but it is just so much fun to make fun of crazy Dean and sing Bill Nelson's praises.

It is mindless stuff.

[krkaufman]

65. It's demoralizing to know the truth on something ...

... and see the media "educating" the public with lies and spin.

Hang in.

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. This means that out of a shrinking group of people who still had not made a choice

the very last stragglers went for Clinton over Obama by 4%. Some who decided slightly earlier went for Obama. But what Obama needed on election day was to convert some of the early Clinton deciders into Obama voters and he failed to do that in any significant numbers. The people who actually voted on election day - leaving out those who voted before then, had the advantage of having watched all of the late developments in the race such as the South Carolina vote. THAT group of the public collectively continued to support Clinton by a large margin.

[krkaufman]

55. Also consider the following angle's effect on late voting in FLorida...

expanded from my earlier post... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4280405&mesg_id=4280405

Why did Senator Clinton feel the need to make the request to seat Florida's delegates just a few days BEFORE the Florida primary?

Couldn't this move be seen as an effort to skirt the "no campaigning" agreement, knowing that the request to seat the delegates would be given widespread coverage on local news in Florida, painting Hillary Clinton in a favorable light and as a "friend of the Florida voter"? Consider the following sampling of Florida news stories, published just 3-4 days before the Florida primary...

* Palm Beach Post; Saturday, January 26th
* WFTV Orlando; Saturday, January 25th
* WPTV West Palm Beach, January 25th
* Orlando Sentinel, January 25th
* Ocala Star-Banner, January 25th

Might the news coverage of the request have had an effect on the vote margin, and especially very late and election day voting? And couldn't the delegates request have been made AFTER the Florida primary, perhaps during her "victory" speech, when it wouldn't have had ANY effect on the vote? Was a similar request made immediately before or after the Michigan primary? If not, again, why the timing of the Florida request, just a couple days before the "no campaigning" primary?

The most likely reason for the timing of the request is that Hillary was scraping for every vote she could get, in an uncontested primary where she already held a significant name recognition advantage, to provide cover for her massive defeat in the previous, actually contested, primary in South Carolina, in order to slow Obama's momentum heading into Super Tuesday.

Further, reviewing the Florida exit poll data...

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#FLDEM

...did the Clinton campaign decide to make this public request after seeing the late momentum from Obama, in the weeks leading up to the primary? And might not the publicity from delegates request be a significant factor in Hillary Clinton's momentum turnaround in election day voting?

If the "no campaigning" pledge was not broken, it sure looks like it was bent all to hell. Chalk another one up in the "do anything" column.

[madfloridian]

58. VERY good point. She brought up the delegates just before primary.

I was looking for that graph. Thanks.

Good points here:

" .did the Clinton campaign decide to make this public request after seeing the late momentum from Obama, in the weeks leading up to the primary? And might not the publicity from delegates request be a significant factor in Hillary Clinton's momentum turnaround in election day voting?

If the "no campaigning" pledge was not broken, it sure looks like it was bent all to hell. Chalk another one up in the "do anything" column."

[ngant17]

4. It was a beauty contest

and Obama came out smelling like a rose himself!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

49. imagine if Ann Coulter's endorsement (video) had come out sooner

See Video posted at this link:

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=406

Coulter on Hannity and Colmes, endorses Clinton and tells WHY.

you just have to see it for yourself.

[krkaufman]

50. I thought Obama won the "late" votes ... except for election day.

nes pas?

[Maribelle]

3. Absentee ballots might have gone in December but the huge numbers of early votes ...

happened at voting places for 15 days prior to the primary. Check your facts.

Since your first line was so totally wrong I didn't read the rest.

Could be full of other errors.

Sorry, I truly can't be bothered correcting endless and mindless mistakes.

[madfloridian]

5. Please prove my subject line wrong.

Or do not accuse.

[Maribelle]

6. I didn't say the subject. I said the first line.

Grow up.

[madfloridian]

7. "those early deciders and early voters made up fully 59 percent of Florida's Democratic electorate."

It is insulting to someone to say "grow up", when they write the truth.

It is one reason, the spin and the misinterpretation by her supporters and by those around her in our area....that we voted for Obama.

[Maribelle]

10. Please. You changed the text after I posted.

Now that I know how you play I will copy and paste before you can change your rant.

[madfloridian]

12. I did not change the original first sentence. I further explained.

SO..what is it you think is wrong?

If you can prove I am wrong with facts, I will apologize. And I will ask the people I quoted to apologize.

Please tell me what you think is wrong.

[Maribelle]

15. The ballots went out in December in Florida. Those early voters made up 59% of the total... WRONG

That's what was on the first line when I originally posted: The ballots went out in December in Florida. Those early voters made up 59% of the total...

Those early votes............ is wrong


Absentee ballots went out in December. Florida's Early Voting process is a totally separate process from absentee ballots, through which a greater number of voters participated. January 14 - January 27th, and in some counties through January 26th. The early voting was ongoing while the "national" advertising from Obama was blasting into 6 million Floridian households. Floridians could not participate in early voting before January 14th. If you want to play lackey for Obama, try getting your facts straight first.



http://www.browardsoe.org/content.aspx?id=152

EARLY VOTING DATES

Monday, January 14 - Sunday, January 27, 2008 - Presidential Preference Primary Election


EARLY VOTING HOURS

Monday - Friday 10:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.

Saturday 10:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.

Sunday 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

[madfloridian]

19. I referred to when ballots went out.

We usually get ours much earlier than when early voting starts.

You are right about when the early voting started. I just read the OP again, and I think it refers to how the margin went down in polling as election day approached.

The ballots come, we vote when the polls open.

[Maribelle]

21. You're spinning. The error is trying to pretend Early Voters "had" their ballots in Dec.

And yet another truth is that on the last day of voting, Hillary's numbers went up with folks that had decided to vote for Hillary a month prior to voting AND HAD NOT CHANGED THEIR MINDS. Get it?

[madfloridian]

29. Do you have a link?

.

[aquart]

8. All your votes are belong to Obama.

Anyone who votes against Obama is a traitor. The way to unite America is for everyone to worship Obama.

[madfloridian]

9. I had no candidate until I marked my ballot. Some here need to stop talking points.

.

[Ronnie]

11. Obviously,

people who feel strongly about Clinton (or anybody else, for that matter) don't wait till the last day to vote.

[madfloridian]

13. Good point. Shows many were becoming impressed with Obama.

Maybe people just started paying attention. It was after all a pattern.

[msongs]

17. or it could show the obama voters all waited until the last minute nt

[Adelante]

18. I think early voting is a problem that way

I was reading the other day where there were a lot of calls from people asking to change their votes because they had changed their minds after having more information. I don't know which way the change was going, but apparently there were a lot of these calls from people who had already voted.

[Maribelle]

32. Wrong, shows no such trend. Hillary's numbers rose on the last day.

[madfloridian]

36. Show me proof of that and I will apologize.

And I will ask Nico, the original Huff poster to apologize.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. There is a misleading confusion of "early voting" and "early deciding" going on here

There is a BIG difference between those two terms. But there is NOT a big difference between the voting choices of those Floridians who voted before election day and those who waited for election day to vote.

Hillary won the Florida primary by 17 point. Her margin of victory from the early and absentee votes was 19 points. That means if half of Floridas voters voted early (and I think it was much much less than that) and half of Florida's voters waited for election day to vote (and I think it was much much more than that) Hillary's margin of victory over Obama with election day voters only would still be 15 points.

ALL THIS PROVES IS THAT MOST FLORIDA VOTERS MADE UP THEIR MINDS EARLY AND DIDN'T CHANGE THEM.

All the late breaking momentum developments for Obama influenced some indecisive voters toward him, but there were not very many of those it turns out. Hillary's support in Florida was very solid. And those voters who made up their minds the literal last day of the election decided for Hillary.

[madfloridian]

20. Obama gained momentum as election day neared.

"But overwhelmingly, Clinton's support came from those who made up their minds over a month ago (63 percent to 27 percent), and from early voters who used absentee ballots (50-31). Floridians began receiving absentee ballots in late December. According to the exit polls, those early deciders and early voters made up fully 59 percent of Florida's Democratic electorate."

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. Amung the true undecided he did

But the undecided was not that big a group. Most voters decided early and stuck with their early choice. The only voters who might have wanted to change their vote but couldn't were the early voters, and Clinon took that group by 19 point. She took the entire election by 17 points. So obviously she took the people who voted on election day itself by at least 13 to 14 points.

[Maribelle]

26. Early voters did not use absentee ballots. Absentee voters used absentee ballots.

Early Voters used the same exact process as those that voted on election day - - at voting places.

[madfloridian]

30. I vote absentee, hubby votes early. Same ballot.

.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

57. Early votes very much like absentee ballots

Early votes are cast with voters lacking as much information as election day voters.

Early votes are not counted on the day they are cast, but election day votes are.

In my state, (NC) early votes are considered absentee in person votes.

[ErnestoG]

22. wow, that's a virtual tie. Margin of error is usually about 3%.

[Maribelle]

23. Would you be interested in some Florida land I have for sale.

I won't even charge you for the swamp gas, like what is in the OP.

[madfloridian]

25. If you keep accusing me, you need to discredit the 4% margin

of election days voters.

[ErnestoG]

34. Does it have any delegates on it?

Gotcha.

[robbedvoter]

28. I guess they loved the "Florida doesn't count - din't cover it" meme

You can spin it till you get blue in the face - it's 860,000 votes , more than MCcain with their trumpeted primaries, more than Kery in 2004 primary (580,000).
For someone who is so against Florida having a primary at all, your comments on it are bizarre. Did it happen, or didn't it? Is the whole thing illegitimate, or only the things that go against your candidate?

[madfloridian]

33. From the comments at Huff Post.....a sensible statement and practical.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/29/florida-results-show-late_n_83957.html

"Pitney's observations concerning a tightening of the race among late-deciding voters are perfectly objective; it's analysis of voting patterns--not spin. Only Clinton apologists could possibly have their thinking so muddied as to spin this article by lamely attempting to lable it as spin! It is FACT that the race narrowed substantially in recent weeks towards Obama's favor. It's also fact that Clinton still won handsomely in the end, but the TREND towards Obama is reflected in the breakdown of vote TIMING. The curious exception is among those who decided at the last minute, who marginally favored Clinton.

The Clinton campaign, seeing that the skewed, anachronistic contest would end in her favor, began framing it in terms of giving Floridians their fair say (despite the pledge all the candidates signed not to campaign there or legitimize the outcome, a pleadge that she semi-clandestinely BROKE). But I think it was a tactical mistake on the part of the Obama campaign to state that FL was meaningless, no matter how true, because it threw Billary spinners a bone to intimate that Obama favors disenfranchisement (lol), which may explain Clinton's counter-surge (garnering her a plurality) among voters who decided on Election Day. A counter-surge that runs against the momentum exit polls showed Obama to have among voters deciding in the past month.

More generally, the demographics in Florida work against Obama and reveal his relative weakness among older/senior voters, who are vastly overrepresented in FL. So are retirees from Clinton's home state (although that didn't seem to help Giuliani---but I think it's fair to assume the the vast majority of New York transplants are Democrats, and thus helped Clinton). This shows Obama has more work to do with senior citizen and Latino outreach, but behind the numbers, and considering the demographics, the results are encouraging for him, esp. when you consider that he honored his pledge not to campaign there while Hillary broke hers."

Hispanics were strong for Hillary here. Obama has work to do in that area. Good comment.

[Maribelle]

37. Swap gas. Full of errors. Early voters did not vote by absentee ballots

Pure unadulterated spin for Obama, regardless of the pomp trying to indicate otherwise.

As I proved above:

Early voters went to voting places.
Early voters did not have their ballots in December.
Early voters did not begin to vote until January 14th.
980,000 voters voted early, or roughly 30% of the voters.


roughly 70% of the voters voted on election day.

Of those that voted on election day - Hillary led by substantial numbers, even though most of those voters were from the six million households that received Obama's "national" advertising, which of course Obama could not possibly help, poor widdle ting.

There was nothing trending for Obama. He was substantially defeated across the board, every day, all ballots.

[madfloridian]

38. I was an early voter BY absentee ballot.

I have no clue what you are doing here.

If you are angry at the 4%....then disprove it. That simple.

[Maribelle]

40. If you voted by absentee ballot you had to apply for an absentee ballot and were ...

classified as an absentee voter.

Early Voters go to a designated voting location, present a photo id and a written signiture id and their names are checked to a voter registeration list.

Give it up. Your spinning will never change the truth.

[madfloridian]

43. You have not disproved the 4 percent margin. Obama gained as the day neared.

You know I was telling the truth in the OP. It is time to be honest about things.

I agree with Simon Rosenberg, and with others who are seeing Hillary use and misuse this state. Simon worked with them for years.

Hillary's victory rally in Florida.

Having worked on the New Hampshire primary and in the War Room in 1992 for the Clintons, I was present at the creation of the famous "rapid response" campaign style and fierce fighting spirit of the Clinton era. In the very first meeting of the famous War Room James Carville warned us "that if you don't like to eat sh-- everyday you shouldn't be in politics." So I understand as well as anyone that this is a tough game, not for the faint of heart.

But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day.

I voted absentee, hubby went to the polls and voted early. He saw me mark my ballot, said it looked like the ones at the polls.

Feel free to continue to try to discredit me. I don't know why you are doing it.

[madfloridian]

48. Hillary's margin got smaller and smaller as election day neared.

And you are bogged down on something that has nothing to do with that.

It is sign that Obama began to impress more people in Florida, even though the delegates won't count.

We all know Hillary will win over all. She is a known quantity. I doubt there will be time for people to get to know someone else as well.

Hispanics are going to put her into the win column. They were a huge factor in Florida.

Hillary's margin got smaller as election day approached. Bottom line.

You have twisted this post in amazing ways. It is called spinning.

[K Gardner]

35. I overheard some salesclerks at the mall today griping about the votes they'd placed weeks ago..

and saying how they wished they could get them back.. evidently the sentiment is fairly widespread.

[Maribelle]

39. False. Millions are angry at Obama and Kerry for saying their votes don't count.

Why on earth would an Obama supporter want their ballot back if their lord said their votes don't count? That makes absolutely no sense.

And what on earth is meant by "get them back"? Obama supporters what to change ballots and commit election fraud?

Why do I get impressions here of the screaming window bangers of miami pretending they were something they were not?

[madfloridian]

41. I don't think you understand that Hillary's campaign will defy the party.

I don't think you understand that Florida leaders were complicit in this moving up of the primary. They were in on it from the start, they knew exactly what they were doing.

The people of Florida have not been given the truth. When they are told who was at fault....that the Florida leaders had known for months they would be penalized...then most understand.

I have talked people through this who did not know that they did it as a way to be relevant.

I talked to a few people who voted as soon as the polls open. They said they wished they could change their vote. They knew they couldn't but they wanted to do so.

[joshcryer]

53. Hillary never stated she'd defy the party, and I challenge you to prove it.

She isn't going to do anything that isn't within DNC rules. And if it's so close that FL and MI matter? You can almost guarantee a brokered convention.

[madfloridian]

54. Here it is in black and white.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/hillaryclinton/story/0,,2248846,00.html

"The Clinton camp yesterday renewed efforts to force the Democratic party to recognise the outcome of the Florida primary and allow the state's 185 delegates to be counted in a tight race.

Mark Penn, Hillary Clinton's chief strategist, said they would push the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to allow the results of both Florida and Michigan to count at the party convention in August. Any challenge will be vigorously resisted by supporters of Barack Obama."

..""Nothing has changed," a Democratic party source said. "Florida will still have zero delegates. The party has booked no rooms for them at the convention."

..."The Clinton team said that while it was reluctant to get into an argument with the DNC, the votes of a million people mattered. Penn said that while the candidates had not campaigned in Florida - though he accused Obama of breaching the rules by running ads - voters had seen the televised debates and had followed the campaigns elsewhere. "That makes it an election," he said."

[bernicewilliams]

42. The thread title is a lie: She led by 4% among election day DECIDERS, not voters

There were many voters who had already decided who they would vote for by election day. It is the small number of those who DECIDED who to vote for at the last minute, that is, on election day, which that stat refers to:

..."But critically -- and perhaps as an indicator of close elections to come -- Clinton's margin of victory among Election Day deciders was the narrowest of all: 34 percent to 30 percent."

[madfloridian]

44. Why would they decide and not vote? And if they had voted, why decide that day?

Do you have more clarification? Does that change the fact of the momentum shifting toward Obama as the election neared?

[bernicewilliams]

46. Let me try to explain

Say there are 15 voters.

5 of those voters voted early, like weeks ago through the mail-in system, while the remaining 10 voters voted on election day.

Let's forget about the 5 who voted early. The person who started this thread referred to the 10 who "voted on election day".

Ok, now assume that 8 of those 10 people who voted on election day had already made up their mind a long time ago; or at least before election day. Nobody could change their mind, ever. (Be aware that when we say election day we mean "January 29th".)
Let's say the other 2 people both decided to vote for Obama.

This would mean that 100% of ELECTION DAY DECIDERS went for Obama; but 80% of ELECTION DAY VOTERS went with Hillary, because they all had already decided to vote for Hillary days ago. As you can see, the number of those who decided on election day is not as important as the number of people who VOTED on election day.

Feel me?

[madfloridian]

45. The link I used said "according to the exit polls"

which means they voted.

[bernicewilliams]

47. Yeah, but even if it means they voted

Only a portion of those who voted told the exit pollster that they had DECIDED to vote for X candidate that same day, that is, on election day. And the number of people that decided BEFORE election day has always been much higher than the tiny number of those who made up their mind on election day (January 29th). Look at any exit poll and you will see.

[robbedvoter]

60. Other numbers:

More than 1.7 million Democratic voters cast ballots in Tuesday's primary, the largest presidential turnout in the state's history, exceeding the previous 1976 high by more than 400,000 votes and more than doubling the 2004 turnout and tripling the 2000 turnout. The winner, Senator Hillary Clinton, amassed more votes than did any previous Democratic contender, including two past southern presidents -- Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter

[stillcool]

61. thanks madfloridian...

you are the best at providing context.:toast:

[HughMoran]

64. Isn't it common knowledge that Obama has more momentum than Hillary?

Why analyze Florida (which was discounted here repeatedly by Obama supporters) to prove something that is already well known?