Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

No flames, no B.S., and no race, age, or charisma arguments -- tell me something...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:06 AM
Original message
No flames, no B.S., and no race, age, or charisma arguments -- tell me something...
In what substantive way is Obama transformative.

I keep hearing it, and I keep not seeing it.

I see a younger, darker, less battle-worn / less battle-hardened, more religiose, and more charismatic Hillary. What am I missing on the substance side that makes him the better choice?

Yes, (unlike her) he was against the war, before (like her) he voted to fund the war. What else?

___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Uhhh, I'm thinking....
:think:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Me 2
:think:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Sinced we are handing the GOP another 4 years, ---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. ? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. 'no one' voted to go to war, everybody was duped.. there was no mention of was in the resolution
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. What was the resolution called?
Still, I can't demonize people for not groking that Bush would so insanely abuse the AUMF powers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Open Government: Accountability and Access
It is his firm belief, and mine too, that the American people ought to be able to know what the hell is going on in Washington.

Obama plans to air health care negotiations on C-Span, not behind closed doors, right out there where the American public can follow along. He passed legislation with Tom Coburn (R-OK) resulting in a public online federal budget data base of where taxpayers' money is going, showing government contractors, who they are, what they're being paid for what work, and where. It tracks grants and earmarks, too, and will even track subcontractors.

It's right here: http://www.usaspending.gov/fpds/index.php?reptype=a

Another bill he sponsored requires all legislation introduced in the Senate be posted to the Internet four days before a vote including any attached giveaways or earmarks, and allowing no anonymous changes to conference reports. Some of it was worked into the Feingold-Obama ethics bill that passed.

He's also sponsored election protection legislation requiring states to report performance - rate of ballots discarded or uncounted, machine malfunctions, length of time voters wait on line, number of voters redirected to a different polling place, etc. This would be public information.

There is much more in this vein. I show these few as examples of what I see illustrates a commitment by Obama (and this shows through his Illinois years, as well) to a more transparent and efficient democracy.

Maybe this isn't the sexy stuff to most people, but I think it is very, very important.

But my main point, I think, is that the man is a problem-solver. He sees something broken and takes steps to fix it. He does this by persuasion, by interaction, by raising and receiving common sense solutions. And working with the other side: with Lugar on nuclear proliferation and trying to keep nukes from falling into the hands of terrorists; with Coburn after Katrina to improve oversight of federal spending.

He is a practical, common sense liberal. He wants to get things done and he's not a showboat about it, as he is often painted here at DU. He does the work and if somebody else takes the credit, that's okay. He was known for that trait as an organizer, as a lawyer, and as a legislator.

Now can he also inspire masses of people? We know he can. But that's not everything to me. I want a more productive government.

I've tried to be specific in my answer to show a side of Obama beyond the, dare I say it, great communicator. But maybe his most promising attribute would be bringing the Democrats to an effective majority. He's not getting endorsed by red state governors and legislators for nothing and not because he's a conservative, which he is not. It's because he proved himself in 2006 to be the kind of campaigner that candidates are happy as can be to invite into their districts, one who can reach a broad cross section of Americans with his Democratic ideals and ideas, without scaring the horses.


Above is a response I made to another DUer, but perhaps it will help with your question. I'm on my way out, so I apologize if you respond and I miss it.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Read this to see a difference between the two.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. I think it is the "less battle-hardened, less battle-worn".
In an effort to discuss without flaming, which I appreciate, I will say what I see.

It is the very fact that he had only been in Washington for a year when he started running for pres. that appeals to many. Moderate pukes, Independents and Democrats see him as "not completely corrupted by Washington, yet". I am not saying that other candidates are, but to Average American Voter, they see a fresh candidate. They don't see many years of baggage that will inevitably follow any long time National politician.

I like Obama and Clinton. I think they are both fine, strong, historic Democrats. And, either would make a great President. I will vote of the Nominee. I think hey are very close on their positions. I think either would win.

The transformative difference, to me, is this:

I have heard many, many hard-right leaning, soft-right leaning, and middle of the roaders tell me "I could vote for Obama." He crosses over to many voters. I also see young people actually give a damn about politics for the first time in my life. And, I see people who have spent their entire lives not even knowing the name of their VP, get excited to participate. Anyone who could bring that kind of attention and excitement to the Democratic Party excites me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. Difficult to describe in concrete terms but I'll give it a shot.
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 09:41 AM by sparosnare
A comparison of the two candidates on issues is reasonable but the comparison stops there.

In some of my previous posts, I've referenced an entry by Obama on dkos in 2005 which gives insight into his pragmatism and ability to look at issues from all angles. I've also referenced a blog by one of his former students who describes Obama the professor as patient and willing to think outside the box to teach his students what they need to know. There's a lot of supporting evidence out there that Obama is not what his detractors make him out to be. I wish people would look for it instead of making assumptions.

The long and short of it is form me - Obama's new way of thinking and representation of a new generation of leadership. I really do not want another Clinton in the White House because it would prevent us from moving beyond the divisiveness that has plagued this country for so long. I can't guarantee things would be any different with Obama in the White House, but at least with him I think there is a chance.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
11. There are differences, just minor ones though.
Which is why it is funny to watch all the fighting and emotions going on here.

The "I'll never vote for Hillary/Obama" posts are the best. They are basically the same compared to an Edwards platform.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. community organizer, pro open-government, more open to dialogue with our ennemies....
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 09:44 AM by Mass
(and yes, this may mean the Iranians or Republicans voters,) without compromising his principles.

Those are factors that are important to me, and those who made me support him rather than Hillary and Edwards.

Policies differences between the three candidates (I am including Edwards there) are minor compared to the gulf that separates them from the Republicans. So, really, the question is more: who do we trust for an open government that will not be the continuation of the backroom decisions of the Bush years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. hmm. you admonish others about speaking aobut race
but feel compelled to bring it up yourself. Interesting.

You've made up your mind. I'm fine with that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. so you're asking to remove all the reasons he's transformative?
and give you a reason.

(sigh)

There's no such thing as a policy-based transformative candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. He will transform NCLB - from a hand grenade at public education into a better funded
hand grenade at public education (Wes Clark definition)

He will transform Democratic voters in Florida into GOP-ers - or non voters "Fla doesn't count/voters do not count"

He will wave his magic wand and make the election stealing/war loving'corrupt GOP-ers "agree with the democratic system of government. "
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC