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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:51 PM
Original message
The Clintons Kazakhstan problem

An Ex-President, a Mining Deal and a Big Donor


By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: January 31, 2008

Late on Sept. 6, 2005, a private plane carrying the Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra touched down in Almaty, a ruggedly picturesque city in southeast Kazakhstan. Several hundred miles to the west a fortune awaited: highly coveted deposits of uranium that could fuel nuclear reactors around the world. And Mr. Giustra was in hot pursuit of an exclusive deal to tap them.

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

Upon landing on the first stop of a three-country philanthropic tour, the two men were whisked off to share a sumptuous midnight banquet with Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent.

Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy. Mr. Clinton’s public declaration undercut both American foreign policy and sharp criticism of Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record by, among others, Mr. Clinton’s wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

Within two days, corporate records show that Mr. Giustra also came up a winner when his company signed preliminary agreements giving it the right to buy into three uranium projects controlled by Kazakhstan’s state-owned uranium agency, Kazatomprom.

The monster deal stunned the mining industry, turning an unknown shell company into one of the world’s largest uranium producers in a transaction ultimately worth tens of millions of dollars to Mr. Giustra, analysts said.

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

Mr. Giustra was invited to accompany the former president to Almaty just as the financier was trying to seal a deal he had been negotiating for months.

In separate written responses, both men said Mr. Giustra traveled with Mr. Clinton to Kazakhstan, India and China to see first-hand the philanthropic work done by his foundation.

A spokesman for Mr. Clinton said the former president knew that Mr. Giustra had mining interests in Kazakhstan but was unaware of “any particular efforts” and did nothing to help. Mr. Giustra said he was there as an “observer only” and there was “no discussion” of the deal with Mr. Nazarbayev or Mr. Clinton.

But Moukhtar Dzhakishev, president of Kazatomprom, said in an interview that Mr. Giustra did discuss it, directly with the Kazakh president, and that his friendship with Mr. Clinton “of course made an impression.” Mr. Dzhakishev added that Kazatomprom chose to form a partnership with Mr. Giustra’s company based solely on the merits of its offer.

more


Kazakhstan primer:

August 19, 2007
The WP's Peter Baker missed a few important insights in its piece on why Bush's democracy vision has stalled. The two biggest: Bush's vision of overturning tyranny and bringing democracy to Iraq has been dashed in massive sectarian bloodshed, loss of life, turmoil, insurgency, uncertainty and heartbreak and a massive devotion of US resources that might have gone to promoting grand things lots of places, and secondly, that in many targeted countries, promoting democracy would mean allowing Islamist groups, some designated as terrorist groups by the Bush administration, to prevail. The piece left out so many big examples of the contradictions -- Musharraf/Pakistan, Saudi Arabia whose corrupt royal family is so close to the White House and Cheney's office, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt -- of where Bush has decided he isn't quite sure he really wants democratic realities to be realized, and he just may prefer the tyrant, as Cheney openly does in Kazakhstan and Saudi Arabia. While the piece would seem to promote a few voices blaming the stalling of Bush's grand vision on the bureaucrats in the U.S. government, it also tried to save itself from total ingratiation with the White House by naming responsible the office of the vice president's "little-girl crush on strongmen." But how did it miss how corrupted and stalled and conflicted is the vision at the very top of the U.S. government -- with the president himself -- and the realities the president has found himself confronting? Bush is now using all the Sunni tyrants, the autocrats, royals and propped up, hardly a two of them democratically elected, to counter Iran, for instance. Bush have a hard time with the policy? Congress may be interested to know due to the $30 billion in military aid to those states it's being asked to approve by the Bush White House.

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Cheney promotes democratic reform everywhere but oil-rich Kazakhstan

By David Espo
ASSOCIATED PRESS

12:18 a.m. May 8, 2006

WASHINGTON – Vice President Dick Cheney made democratic reform his calling card throughout his just-completed overseas trip – everywhere except Kazakhstan, a land judged poor in human rights but rich in oil and gas.

“Obviously Kazakhstan is important given their considerable resources,” the vice president told reporters Sunday aboard Air Force Two on the way home. “It's one of the few places where we're going to see an increase in oil production from a non-OPEC state over the next few years.”

more


James Love| BIO

The Well-Connected Dictator

This is about Nursultan Nazarbayev, the brutal and corrupt dictator of Kazakhstan and friend of politicians in high places, including three current and past U.S. presidents, Dick Cheney, presidential candidates from both parties, and heads of state everywhere.

While the butt of jokes in the movie Borat, Kazakhstan is more interesting and potentially important than many realize. Sparsely populated but vast in territory (ranked 9th globally), Kazakhstan is larger than all of Western Europe, endowed with enormous oil, gas and uranium resources, and has a government that aspires to be a leading global supplier of nuclear fuel and energy technologies.

Located in an unstable region, Kazakhstan shares a northern border with Russia, and an eastern border with China. To the south lie the authoritarian and corrupt states of Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, and close by are Tajikistan, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

High oil prices and rich mineral resources have create a bonanza for this former member of the USSR. According to Forbes, there are seven billionaires living in Kazakhstan, all of whom have close ties to Nazarbayev, including Nazarabyev's daughter Dinara Kulibaeva (2.1 billion) and her husband Timur Kulibaev (2.1) billion. Nazarbayev himself is rumored to be one of the richest men in the world, although no one knows exactly how rich, since he is alleged to have hidden interests in a variety of businesses.

The only President since independence in 1991, Nazarbayev has a long history of rigging elections, and destroying critics and opposition parties and leaders. Many of the critics of the regime have been imprisoned, beaten, murdered, or had their daughters kidnapped or killed. Nazarbayev himself is implicated in a US Department of Justice investigation into bribes paid by James Giffen, whose trial has been put on hold by the Bush administration. For details of corruption and the brutal treatment of critics of the regime, see this timeline.

None of this has stopped a long list of leading political figures from cozying up to the Kazakhstan government, or Nazarbayev personally.

<...>



Vice President Dick Cheney met with Nazarbayev in Kazakhstan in May 2006, less than three months aftere the dramatic murder of opposition leader Altynbek Sarsenbaev.



September 2006, President George Bush shares a light moment with Nazarbayev at the White House.

more


Will Bill's dough make trouble for Hillary?

Protecting Hillary: Bill Clinton Severs Business Ties With Billionaire Buddy Burkle

The Clintons' secrecy is going to comeback and bite them in the rear.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ouch!
K&R
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm sorry, he undercut BUSH foreign policy? BUSH?
When do we give him the medal?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Big fan of Kazakhstan's dictator?
Because the article suggests that Clinton sold human rights legitimacy for uranium for donations.

Whether it's true is another matter, but it's hardly an event for celebration.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. what about proof, rather than idle speculation..? eom
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. What sort of proof would you like to see?
:shrug:

Would you like to see an email from Bill Clinton saying "When I praised the despicable human rights record of Nusultan Nazarbayev's regime, it was because I was getting mining contracts for my good friend Frank Giustra, who accompanied me on my trip and received a $3.1 billion mining contract 48 hours after our departure, the same trip during which I praised Nazarbayev's commitment to democratic elections."

You're right. There's likely no such email.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Where is the quote BC praising the human rights record of Nazarbayev?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Here ya go
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. What pleasure do you derive from posting lies?
You said:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4306418#4310274

"What sort of proof would you like to see?

"Would you like to see an email from Bill Clinton saying "When I praised the despicable human rights record of Nusultan Nazarbayev's regime, it was because I was getting mining contracts for my good friend Frank Giustra, who accompanied me on my trip and received a $3.1 billion mining contract 48 hours after our departure, the same trip during which I praised Nazarbayev's commitment to democratic elections."


It seems Bill Clinton said NO such thing:

However, I'm posting extracts in their entirety from your link: (everything related to BC's vosit with Pres Nazarbayev )

2005 September 6. Nazarbayev Meets former President Clinton in Almaty

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-kazakhembus/090705.html


President Nursultan Nazarbayev met former U.S. President Bill Clinton in Almaty September 6 and discussed aid for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, fighting HIV/AIDS, and political and economic developments in Kazakhstan.

At the end of the meetings in Almaty, President Clinton and Kazakhstan’s Minister of Healthcare Yerbolat Dossayev signed an agreement admitting Kazakhstan into the Clinton Foundation’s HIV/AIDS Initiative Procurement Consortium. . .

At the news conference, the former U.S. President "praised" Kazakhstan’s denuclearization saying he was "especially grateful to Nursultan Nazarbayev for nuclear disarmament." He believes this was "a difficult decision" which helped pave the way for denuclearization of other countries of the former Soviet Union and is still important today. "given the new wave of terrorism and our understanding that terrorists have fewer chances to get nuclear weapons." "Only now do we understand how wise that decision was," he said. . .

This was the eighth meeting between Nazarbayev and Clinton in as many years. Their first meeting in 1994 produced the bilateral Democratic Partnership Charter and a strong commitment to nuclear disarmament and wide ranging economic cooperation between the countries.

http://sev.prnewswire.com/environmental-services/20050907/2988967en-1.html

Bill Clinton Meets President Nazarbayev During a Private Visit to Kazakhstan


ASTANA, Kazakhstan, September 7 /PRNewswire/ -- Yesterday, September 6th, former President Bill Clinton came to Kazakhstan on a private visit. He met Kazakh President Nazarbayev who promised a donation (of 500,000 USD) to the Hurricane Katrina relief fund. Former President Bill Clinton visited President N. Nazarbayev yesterday in Almaty.

Former President Clinton declared he believes Kazakhstan is ready to chair OSCE in 2009. The Republic of Kazakhstan is running for the presidency of OSCE in 2009. Former President Clinton said he is "glad to testify for economic progress in Kazakhstan". "I want to note that your statement on political and social reforms in your country is of special importance. It is very important that this statement was made at the threshold of elections".

2005 September 7. Clinton meets with Kazakhstan opposition leader

http://www.eurasianet.org/resource/kazakhstan/hypermail/200509/0003.shtml


Former U.S. President Bill Clinton met with Tuyakbai in Almaty on 7 September, Interfax-Kazakhstan reported. Citing the press service For a Just Kazakhstan, the news agency reported that Clinton emphasized that all candidates in Kazakhstan's upcoming presidential election should have equal access to the media. The press service noted that the hour-long meeting focused on "issues relating to democratic development and human rights in our country." President Nazarbaev weighed in on Clinton's meeting with the opposition, RFE/RL's Kazakh Service reported. "They probably asked for support, they probably asked for money," Nazarbaev said. "I have said that elections will take place and they will be transparent and that they will receive the recognition of the international community, and it is going to happen. However, Kazakhstan will not allow any interference in its internal affairs by any foreign country, any embassy or nongovernmental organization."

Speaking at a news conference, Clinton said he was "very pleased to witness economic progress in Kazakhstan." He added, "I am glad that as U.S. President I helped economic reforms in your country, and today we see the results of those reforms." . .

Clinton commended President Nazarbayev’s commitment to "opening up the social and political life of your country." Referring to the Kazakh leader’s statement earlier this month on his commitment to ensure "free, fair and transparent" presidential election, Clinton said, "It’s important that you made these statements before the election at the end of this year and I believe it will be quite influential in what I hope will be a successful bid to be the leader of the OSCE in 2009. I think it’s time for that to happen, it’s an important step, and I’m glad you’re willing to undertake it."

Kazakhstan is seeking the rotating chairmanship of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in 2009. The decision will need to be made by the 55-member organization, which includes the U.S., by December 2006. At the news conference, Clinton noted: "My wife visited your country when I was President and told me a lot about the visit." The then First Lady Hillary Clinton visited Kazakhstan in 1996. While in Almaty, Clinton also met representatives of the Kazakh opposition.

....

***At a joint nighttime press conference, Clinton "praised" Nazarbayev for dismantling the nuclear arsenal he inherited from the Soviets, who used to test weapons in the remote republic. Then, before sitting down to a midnight banquet, Clinton signed an agreement with the Kazakh health minister that permits the government to buy heavily discounted HIV/AIDS drugs through the Clinton foundation's procurement consortium. Sometime around 2:30 A.M., he met with the Kazakh opposition leaders to hear their complaints about the authoritarian Nazarbayev. Within an hour he was in the air again, heading to Lucknow, India."

...You'll have to try harder to do better next time...because like your candidate, you can't deliver the goods.



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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Don't be daft
Clinton commended President Nazarbayev’s commitment to "opening up the social and political life of your country." Referring to the Kazakh leader’s statement earlier this month on his commitment to ensure "free, fair and transparent" presidential election, Clinton said, "It’s important that you made these statements before the election at the end of this year and I believe it will be quite influential in what I hope will be a successful bid to be the leader of the OSCE in 2009. I think it’s time for that to happen, it’s an important step, and I’m glad you’re willing to undertake it."

This is the money section and you damn well know it. This is the section that Nazarbayev can go around trumpeting as an endorsement of his human rights improvement. If there was a quid pro quo, and I'm not saying there was, this is the quo, very obviously.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. You get zero points for looking for "Gold" that isn't there.. slick!
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. OR, alternatively, you have no response
You call me a liar when the offending statement is right there in your post.

You can't seriously be defending Clinton's behavior in this case, can you?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. You can't seriously think putting" your" words in Bill Clinton's mouth or mine ..
saying, 'BC praised the human rights record of Nazarbayev', which the Sept 05 quote posted clearly puts your assertion in dispute and the assertion I called you a liar which is irrational on it's face, seems to further jeopardize your conclusion of a quid pro quo deal. Another thing, you seem to be forgetting, except for the assumptions made in the Van Natta article, you have not added anything in the way of evidence or substance (except for Van Natta's opinion, an opinion you seem fixated on), that would serve to quantify your assertion or Van Atta's perceptions of a quid pro quo deal having any merit whatsoever..

As the parties of interest mentioned in the article Bill Clinton and Mr. Giustra contradict the article and you in it's entirety.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Why did he lie:
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hillary can't catch a break this week.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. LOL - are you forgetting the SOTU?
Kazakhstan or the Snub? Which one will make more of an impression in the minds of the public. Which one got mentioned on The View. I wonder, I wonder.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. If you're pinning your hopes on a non issue like a handshake
its going to be an even longer next week for you.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. John Edwards dropping out, is the biggest break she could ever wish for...
:rofl:
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. You and HIS44 can keep hoping that
Just prepare for her to drop out after the VA primary in 2/12.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Obambi has to go head to head with Hillary tonight..
watch him fold or overreact with his (thin-skinned) temper, Lying to make his point.

After tonight's debate, Obama's goose is cooked!... Hillary will nail his hide to the barn door.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. You're forgetting that the more people compare Obama and Hillary
The less they like Hillary. Look at every state that has held a real primary.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I don't agree with your premise..
but if thats what you think.. Tonight will be like nothing Obama has experienced before. Edwards is out and he has to stand on his own and every one of his words will be carved in stone.. Obama has no more wiggle room, which works out fine for us.. Think he'll show? Or will he call in with a belly ache?
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Tektonik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. And Obama is still going to get thrashed on Tuesday
:eyes:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Maybe. Maybe not. I wouldn't be so confident if I were
you. That kind of smugness could come back to smack you.
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Tektonik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Well barring a media covered Hillary scandal that pops up before Tuesday
I'll say Obama is cooked.
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. ...as dirty as Dick Cheney! Wonderful...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Timeline with kidnapping, murder and suicide
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. most voters don't care about this shit. Only the media.
Same thing about Obama and Rezko. There are far more important issues to deal with.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Like handshakes
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. Just think...some posters will be googling for info on Kazakhstan
all day long. By tomorrow, they will be the experts feeling it's incumbent on them to impart all this new info on us! (NOT!) a little Borat humor...
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. this isn`t good for hillary or the party
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. Who will they fault for this?
The Clintons are outdoing themselves as the biggest whiners pretending to be victims

Someone else is always at fault when the Clintons are exposed.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. You have to admiit, no one can top Obama as the Champ at whining and Lying, though..
Would you happen to know if Obama has given any consideration as to what he will do when he loses the nomination?
Will he sell that horrid house of his, go into seclusion, run for president in his homeland? Just wondering?
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. Uh... Don Van Atta?! At it again Whitewater. "Her Way"
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 01:18 AM by Yossariant
What happens to an investigative reporter best known for his role "breaking" three "scandals," each of which fell apart upon government investigation?

If he's Jeff Gerth, and the Clintons are the subjects of one of those stories, he gets to share a million-dollar book deal to recycle his own flawed reporting and rehash ages-old anecdotes.

And what did Jeff Gerth produce in exchange for his newfound riches? In Her Way*, GERTH and his co-author, DON VAN ATTA, compiled a laundry list of previously reported anecdotes -- some true, some almost certainly false, some "preposterous" -- and repackaged them for sale for $29.99...
http://mediamatters.org/items/200705260003

...Much of the criticism of Gerth's (and the Times') Whitewater reporting focused on a pattern of over-hyping innocuous facts. It is important to note that this criticism has come not only from those close to the Clintons, but from working journalists as well...

The first reporter to fall for the tale was The New York Times' Jeff Gerth, an investigative reporter. He produced an almost incomprehensible report on the Clintons' Whitewater land investments in early 1992. But incomprehensible or not, the fact that it appeared in so prestigious a paper as The New York Times insinuated that something must have been wrong. And that meant that every other baying hound in the pack had to give chase. ..

The tale of the resulting journalistic feeding frenzy is artfully told in a new book titled Fools for Scandal, by Gene Lyons...

Lyons begins by showing how Gerth was duped by Clinton's GOP enemies and how Gerth's original stories were so error-filled, intentionally or otherwise, that one of the key figures, former Arkansas state securities director Lee Thalheimer, called them "unmitigated horseshit."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200705250001

Lots more at links --- caps mine.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah, attack one messenger because that's the only link in the OP n/t
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. OK I read it
Overall it doesn't reflect well on Bill in my opinion, but it's not scandalous either. Personally I prefer Jimmy Carter in ex-Presidents. Bottom line the only thing that really bothers me is that Clinton gave a specific form of praise to Nazarbayev that helped him pursue an international political goal that human rights groups were actively campaigning against (and I single out human rights groups because they are my gold standard for an issue like this). That was uncalled for and showed bad judgment in my eyes.

The fact that powerful U.S. leaders inside and outside of government are dealing with Nazarbayev, given the strategic geographic area that he controls and the resources it has, reminds me of Africa during the cold war, but it is always an element of U.S. foreign policy. There is oil in Kazakhstan, the Europeans are active there seeking energy contracts, and strategic oil pipelines are being built through it.

Without being an expert on him, Nazarbayev seems to already be what Russian President Putin is rapidly becoming. Economic development in Kazakhstan has grown rapidly since he took power, like in Russia, which gives him some popular support even though the Democracy in his nation is backtracking from the initial changes in that direction that were introduced when Independence from the Soviet Union was won.

Ex Presidents tend to get rich in America. We live in a capitalist society that sees no problem with some people earning hundreds of millions while others get evicted from their homes. Bill Clinton's charity appears to be doing some honestly good work internationally, combating AIDs in particular. There is no indication that Bill Clinton illegally profited personally or politically from this episode.

It will be interesting to see how Hillary handles this if it comes up in the debate tonight. I have always liked Hillary better than Bill. I know I am in a minority of Democrats who would say that. She has rarely broken ranks with him in public but the reports I read indicate they have had their political differences in private. I just heard Carl Bernstein (who is by no means a Hillary Shill) remark on CNN this morning that Hillary Clinton argued with Bill against NAFTA when Bill was President, and unfortunately to my mind, lost that fight. He was the one who had been elected that time, not her. I look forward to those tables being reversed.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Excellent analysis...you reflect my position perfectly
Nicely done. :thumbsup:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. problem. The Clinton's won't release their tax returns. So saying he didn't illegally profit
is not an option for Hillary supporters.

"There is no indication that Bill Clinton illegally profited personally or politically from this episode."

How can you state that when they won't release their tax returns?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Because it is the simple truth
I am not trying to make that statement into more than it is, nor should anyone make it into less than it is. Income taxe returns are legally binding statements submitted to federal authorities. People can and do get busted over the information that is or is not provided in them. There are no charges nor investigations pending regarding the legality of Bill Clinton's income that anyone knows of.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
49. Do you have a link
that the Clinton's WON'T release their returns? Or only that they haven't yet.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. That's completely lame because it denies that this is
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
33. Jesus fucking Christ! Here they go again...The Clintons = The Bushes!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
35. CLINTON SUPPORTED THE DICTATOR TO HEAD GROUP MONITORING ELECTIONS!!
"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy.


and you wonder why the Clinton's didn't speak out after our own 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen. They have no interest in democracy-only profit! We need leadership with integrity. You are not going to find that with the Clintons!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. Facts are funny things:

Factcheck: New York Times Story on President Clinton

1/31/2008 11:20:05 AM

No matter how much conjecture and innuendo is thrown around, it does not change the simple fact that former President Clinton had no involvement in Frank Giustra's business dealings in Kazakhstan.

In fact, the only agreement he signed in Kazakhstan during his 6 hour visit was to allow that country to purchase lower-cost medicine to fight AIDS through the Clinton Foundation's HIV/AIDS Initiative.

As a number of journalists who have joined President Clinton on his Foundation trips around the world can attest, he frequently travels to countries where the Foundation is working to combat AIDS and improve the lives of people in the developing world.

Indeed, the fact that President Clinton traveled to Kazakhstan on Frank Giustra's plane, and the visit itself, was reported by Esquire magazine in December, 2005.

"Late in the evening on September 6, the Clinton party landed in Almaty, the mountainous former capital of Kazakhstan, and from the airport proceeded directly to a meeting with President Nursultan Nazarbayev, much as if this were an official diplomatic visit.

At a joint nighttime press conference, Clinton praised Nazarbayev for dismantling the nuclear arsenal he inherited from the Soviets, who used to test weapons in the remote republic. Then, before sitting down to a midnight banquet, Clinton signed an agreement with the Kazakh health minister that permits the government to buy heavily discounted HIV/AIDS drugs through the Clinton foundation's procurement consortium. Sometime around 2:30 A.M., he met with the Kazakh opposition leaders to hear their complaints about the authoritarian Nazarbayev. Within an hour he was in the air again, heading to Lucknow, India.

This disorienting forty-eight hours was only the prelude to four more days of plane-hopping across China, where his foundation has established an active HIV/AIDS program, from Zhengzhou to Kunming to Urumqi to Hangzhou and finally to Beijing, where he marked the anniversary of September 11 with the U. S. embassy staff."


Regarding Frank Giustra's philanthropic support for the Clinton Foundation:

Mr. Giustra's generous support for the Clinton Foundation is well publicized. Esquire, the New Yorker, GQ, and others have all reported on the use of his plane to support Foundation travel. Mr. Giustra's initial pledge was disclosed by amount on the Foundation's 990 form filed in 2007 with the IRS. And, Mr. Giustra announced his $100 million pledge to found the Clinton Giustra Sustainable Growth Initiative at a press conference last July in New York City

Regarding President Clinton's meeting with the head of Kazakhstan state uranium company:

Several years after his trip to Kazakhstan, President Clinton did meet with the head of Kazatomprom, but the Times story itself says that the President told him he would not lobby for him. The only action he has taken, then or since, is posing for a photograph.

Regarding President Clinton's reported remarks about President Nazarbayev and Kazakhstan's effort to head the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe:

While he was in Kazakhstan, he met with Kazakhstan's dissidents in a show of support for their efforts to compete in free and fair elections, a meeting widely reported at the time

Regarding President Clinton's letter to President Nazarbayev:

The letter sent by President Clinton following President Nazarbayev's reelection was a routine letter that the former President's office regularly sends to world leaders on such occasions.

Regarding President Nazarbayev's invitation to CGI:

President Clinton annually invites hundreds of the heads of state, former heads of state and other senior leaders from governments around the world who come to New York for a meeting of the United Nations General Assembly to the Clinton Global Initiative.

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=5625

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:55 PM
Original message
Lies are not funny:
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. let's hope this gets some proper airplay
instead of that idiotic handshake snub nonense.

but likely it won't - the media protects the clintons from truths such as these as well as it does the bushes. Shame on those who think this kind of neocon/Bushlike conduct is Okay. and if Obama was doing this kind of schtick, I'd be spitting on him too.

:puke:
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. FWIW, NBC Nightly News covered it. I only caught the tail end of it.
It must have portrayed the Clintons in a negative light though, because someone started a thread about Andrea Mitchell's hatred of the Clintons.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-01-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. What did she say? n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
42. More:
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 06:50 PM by ProSense
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
47. The
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
48. Key words in this article is EX PRESIDENT.....
anything illegal? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Some other key words...
Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy. Mr. Clinton’s public declaration undercut both American foreign policy and sharp criticism of Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record by, among others, Mr. Clinton’s wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
------------------------------------------------
Mr. Clinton has vowed to continue raising money for his foundation if Mrs. Clinton is elected president, maintaining his connections with a wide network of philanthropic partners.
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