About Democratic Underground, John Kerry, and the General Election

[Skinner]

The last few months have been an extremely difficult time for all of us on Democratic Underground. I certainly did not expect the level of animosity on this message board to reach the level that it did against the various Democratic candidates or against each other. I regret that I was not more skillful in shepherding this place through this tough time. If we were to do it again, there are certainly things I would do differently, but I am not particularly optimistic that the result would be much different. It was a presidential primary, and fighting, anger, cruelty, and hurt feelings are inevitable. It is said that time heals all wounds. I hope that a little time will bring healing on Democratic Underground, and we'll be able to once again come together, reminded of the values that we all share.

Barring some unforeseen Act of God, it looks like John Kerry is going to be the Democratic nominee. I think that he will be a capable standard-bearer for our party in this election. He is a war hero, and he seems to have the "gravitas" and integrity to be a formidable candidate in the General Election. While his votes have not all been perfect, he has a solidly progressive record that will provide a stark contrast to the failed policies of the Bush Administration. John Kerry was not my top choice for the nomination, but I trust the wisdom of the primary voters who put him on top, and I am proud to give him my support. I am confident that he has what it takes to defeat Bush in the fall.

Now that we have a nominee, many people have been wondering what it means for Democratic Underground. The short answer is: We don't really know yet. Since last spring, we have had a rule on the books indicating that we would support the nominee, no matter who it was. There has been a lot of talk about the possibility of a "purge" of people who don't "get in line," but we have no intention of doing such a thing, nor would we want to. Thoughtful criticism of the nominee will be permitted, but we don't wish for DU to be a place where opponents of the Democratic nominee can post partisan attacks. Democratic Underground was created to be a safe haven where our members could get away from the drumbeat of constant attacks against us, our values, and our candidates. Now that we have a nominee, we do not want DU to become indistinguishable from Free Republic when it comes to bashing him, and we will do what we feel is appropriate to keep that from happening. We aren't going to make any immediate changes. Currently, we just want to wait a bit to see what sort of natural equilibrium develops on the message board before we institute any changes. One of the first changes will be to get rid of the GD: 2004 Primary forum as it currently exists. We are discussing what, if anything, will take its place.

We understand that there are many people on this message board who are feeling very upset about the primaries, and we understand that it may take a while for people to get used to the idea that we have a nominee. We are going to do our best to be sensitive to your situation, and to give you time to adjust. I hope that former partisans from all sides of the candidate debates will understand that we have little to gain, politically or emotionally, from continuing the slash-and-burn infighting of the last few months. A little human kindness from everyone will help heal the wounds we have. We are currently giving you a fair amount of leeway, but we will not allow the divisive behavior to go on indefinitely. There will come a time when we have to put the fighting behind us.

Thank you to all of you for sticking with Democratic Underground through this difficult time. I am looking forward to an exciting year where we can all work together to re-defeat the illegitimate, unelected moron!

Skinner
DU Admin

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Thank YOU, Skinner!

:)

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. Thank you, Skinner!

:hi:

[emcglynn]

8. Many thanks

"without struggle there can be no progress"

[LynneSin]

3. I'm on your team

I think you'll find the majority of us DUers are also on board too.

If people are upset because we won't support Nadar then maybe they need to start a Nadar Underground :D

[WilliamPitt]

4. To the top

[Maat]

5. Thanks. I have only been only the Board for a month or so.

I have always found the discussions to be fairly polite or else involving little jabs of humor; maybe I just missed the bad threads. I agree, however, that now, we must back Kerry 110% I use this Board, and this Board only, because it is a safe haven. So I appreciate the effort.

[RKO]

6. Agreed.

Thanks, Skinner. :thumbsup:

[ewagner]

7. You guys are saints

for moderating the last few months.

As far as the future is concerned, my personal preference is to talk about different strategies which are removed from the nominees personality. There are a lot of really wise people on DU and I look forward to discussing and debating strategies to defeat Bush in November...that would be one area of discussion.

Another possibilty for discussion is a "Unity Forum" in which DUers can talk about how to reconcile the differences between the candidates for the nomination.

Maybe I'm too idealistic.

[Desertrose]

9. will those who still support the other dems still running

be welcome to post about their candidates?
Or will we be told to fall in line....

I know you can't answer that yet probably...but thanks for keeping the giant DU sandbox open for all of us to play, Skinner. A few black eyes and skinned knees but we seem to have survived!! We've come a long way since day 1!!

You guys are appreciated ! :toast:

:loveya:
DR

typo & clarity

[Skinner]

17. You are still welcome to post about your candidate.

:thumbsup:

[Desertrose]

20. thanks Skinner...ya run a great sandbox!

:grouphug:

:party:

Peace
DR

[Kenneth ken]

82. Thank you

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. Thanks, Skinner

As everyone knows, I'm an ardent DK supporter, but I'm also an adult, and I understand that I can't always have my own way.

We could do a lot worse than John Kerry.

[GainesT1958]

11. "Sticking with DU"? Why, SKINNER...

What else would we do!? :D

Looking foward to being with you all--and everybody else here, too--for the LONG HAUL back to the White House next January!:7

:kick:

B-)

[sangh0]

12. Are you certain about that "No Purge" pledge?

or can we talk you into changing your mind?

:-) Just kidding. Keep up the good work

[Democat]

13. Thanks for the post! One thing that I'm sure you already know, Skinner

If you allow people to bash Kerry, then right wingers will register for that express purpose and they will try to work within whatever guidelines you set. This has been happening in the last few weeks, where right wingers register and claim to support another candidate, but really all of their posts are just bashing Kerry.

The moderators need to keep a close eye on the "fake" Democratic Kerry bashers who are really just right wingers trying to undermine what DU stands for.

Hopefully I won't get another warning for mentioning this in this thread. :)

Thanks for all your hard work keeping this place running through the primaries. :)

[hyphenate]

55. I think we ALL

Must continue to be aware of such threads, and alert when such comments are made. We need to be our own "cruise directors" and ascertain what the motives are of others who choose to make unsavory comments.

[mot78]

14. Keep up the good work Skinner

Pulh-leeze get rid of GD 2004 soon and repair our split GD.

[deutsey]

15. Excellent...Skinner for President!

Seriously, you guys running DU do an excellent job. :thumbsup:

[rock]

16. You did good!

Thanks

[auntpattywatty]

18. Dean is still on the ballot and still wants votes so he will have delegate

Can I still spread the word about this?

[Skinner]

19. Sure.

You are welcome to spread the word.

[Rationality]

98. Avatar Removed Due to Legal Threat from Fox?

BWHAHAHAHAHA! Is that for real?

By the way, if you don't mind answering, who was your first pick? Just wondering...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. I appreciate that you always try to come to the most equitable solution

I'd hate for people to not feel welcome simply because they don't prefer Kerry but would hope their criticisms would be constructive rather than based on innuendo, internet lies, or a deliberate attempt to spread and create propaganda as has been witnessed.

I would hope this would have been the case no matter who got the nod.

We all realize there are serious issues and winning one election solves nothing but for handling the immediate crisis of leadership by a handful of nuts, unilateralism and dictatoresque behavior.

[Iverson]

31. killing two birds with one stone

I'd like to echo that sentiment and also take the opportunity to concur with nsma, which does not always happen.

[Plaid Adder]

22. It'll be OK once everyone gets through the 7 stages of primary grief

You know...rage, denial, rage, bargaining, rage, rage, acceptance...

I think you guys do a great job of keeping the place civil; I still am amazed at how well you and the mods do with that. I once co-administered a list with 45 people in it and we STILL couldn't prevent a painful schism with ugly consequences.

:toast:

The Plaid Adder

[littlejoe]

23. Thanks, Skinner!

[UrbScotty]

24. Cheers, Skinner! (nt)

[MrBenchley]

25. Now let's kick Chimpy's whistleass!!

On to November and victory!!

[mopinko]

27. what does this mean?

whistleass???

[truthseeker1]

75. Here ya go......

http://groups.msn.com/FreeThinkersWorldwide/coololdladies.msnw

click on Sally Baron - she's the one who nicknamed Bush Whistleass

[MGKrebs]

26. Kerry better friggin win!

We KNOW Bush will unleash hell this summer. We even know what the attacks will entail (mostly). They will also scrounge up or invent every hooker/pimp/drug dealer/criminal/wacko/freak/alien they can think of to try to connect to Kerry. We know this right now. We need to start preparing our attack and counteroffensive right now.

Swallow hard and send some money to Kerry, to the DNC, and to MoveOn. All of them. Even if you don't do it for Kerry, do it for the rest of us, for your children, and for our country.

[unfrigginreal]

28. I hope that you keep a separate forum for the Presidential Race

One of the first changes will be to get rid of the GD: 2004 Primary forum as it currently exists. We are discussing what, if anything, will take its place.

Some of us will probably be focusing much more on the Senate, House and State elections but will be less interested in the Presidential campaign. I would imagine that if it was all in one forum such as GD then the Kerry/Bush race will smother any of the discussions for the lower offices.

[ramapo]

33. Kudos to Skinner

DU has not been much of a safe haven lately but it feels like home to me. It's takes a lot of patience to deal with the many personalities here.

There's so much to be done for the GE. Certainly a dedicated forum woul dbe best, maybe more than one.

There's the media to watch, events to publicize, and money to be raised just to start. We'll want to debate strategy. There'll be the conventions.

Let's make this a positive time at DU. Let's remember what brought us all here in the first place.

[For PaisAn]

127. You're right!

There should be a seperate forum for the Presidential Race.

[Doomsayer13]

29. Thank You

the vitrol here was becoming quite overbearing. Time to focus that negativity on the one man who deserves it most - George W. Bush.

[northofdenali]

30. Beautifully written, Skinner, and very thoughtful.

I'll stick with DU through thick and thin. Thanks for all you do.

[underpants]

32. Very good

I personally wouldn't call him a moron though...........okay so I have done that or at least the equivalent.

Excellent Skinner.

[MaryBear]

34. Skinner, I disagree that

anger and cruelty are inevitable. Certainly, cruelty is not; and it need not be accepted here.

Thanks for all your effort. Hurray for DU!

[Kanary]

74. I'm with you, GrandmaBear!

I don't know why it has to be said that all emotions can be expressed without attacking another. Certainly families wouldn't hold together if there were constant attacks. I truly don't understand why it's expected to be a "given".

Maybe it's a generational thing.

Kanary

[Renew Deal]

35. I still insist that you all did a great job.

You did a tremendous job moderating this place and helping improve the tone. You saw everything pre-rules, with the rules, and the brief anarchy after the rules. The environment was better when you enforced the rules.

Anyway, I am ready to move on. I am not suggesting any purges. That was a mistake. I hope everyone is as excited as I am about the future. John Kerry has a lot of potential to be a great president.

[progressivebydesign]

36. A feeling of calm washed over me today. Thanks Skinner & DU

The GD Primary forum was... well.. interesting. I did get my feelings tromped on regularly. I even flirted with not voting at all in November. Briefly.

But, today, when I saw the headlines, Bush vs. Kerry, my personal feelings of hurt and my stubborness vanished. I saw those names together and my allegiance went immediately to Kerry. I'm ready to stand behind Kerry as he takes on Bush. It's no longer about me, and my selfish ideals.. it's about taking the country back. The damage done to the world by Bush is bigger than my own ego. I'm a Democrat, always have been, and always will be. I cannot change the Party or the world from the sidelines. I'm ready to rock!

:grouphug:

[candy331]

43. Too bad real change in this country will not even have a

real chance. I suppose those that support status quo will wake up one day to find that what's left of freedom and democracy will have slipped away. I see no change with Kerry,if somehow he should pull it off because he is part of the problem and until the causes of the problems are attacked I still say just changing the Captains hat on a sinking ship will not stop the ship from sinking. Thanks, though for the forum it has been helpful.

[surfermaw]

141. I don't see Kerry in the same lite you see him

When they call him aloof, I call him poised, when they call him Liberal, I see him mostly as moderate, on the economy, jobs, health care and the list goes on'

Frankly one night when Kerry was far behind, something with Bush happened that day..although I supported another candidate, I took a look at the group and thought to my self, we are going to have to go with a man like Kerry who is experienced, seems to have a soft heart and can take Bush on in a debate and in the run for the Presidency.. now I just hope he picks my man for his V.P

About the time I had this thought many Americans must have had the same thoughts, that was when Kerry started to rise in the polls and went on to win...Lets support with every thing we have,other wise we will be facing Bush for 4 more years.. I see a Kerry cabinet & government with Gep. Edwards, Clark, Dean,Sharpton, Carol and Dennis.

[Rebellious Republican]

37. Thank you, thats what we need at this time, party unity! N/T

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. Kudos

I think you are taking the right tack in 'waiting to see what sort of natural equilibrium develops'. It already is forming. Those who really do "wish to contribute to the defeat of the Democratic candidate for president" are now finding it harder to conceal their motives -- and their number is so small that earlier fears of a wholesale 'purge' are obviously unwarranted.

[bluestateguy]

39. Thank You

I first wish to commend you and the other administrators for a job well done during the last year and a half of almost constant campaigning. I am glad that a nominee has been chosen so that all of us here may begin the task of reuniting to fight the real enemy: George W. Bush. I also agree that some supporters of certain candidates will need a little bit of breathing space for awile. Many people were very devoted to their candidates. Some actually worked very hard on their campaigns. I would not discourage them from still voting for their candidate if their state has yet to vote. Those passionate feelings don't recede overnight, especially when we work our hearts out, fight the good fight, but still lose. It hurts to lose. It's more fun to win than to lose, but in the end there can only be one Democratic nominee, and the primay voters in 27 out of 30 states have chosen John Kerry. That's a far greater mandate than Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis and Bill Clinton had in 1976, 1984, 1988 and 1992 respectively. In the coming months we will pull together because the viciousness of the Bush campaign will make us all remember that the greatest enemy to the goals we share at DU currently resides as 1600 Pennslyvania Avenue.

[young_at_heart]

40. I always come back to DU

DU is the best forum and just about any topic imaginable is available to thoughtful people. Sometimes when I'm feeling angry or hopeless after watching Dubya or Cheney on TV I find myself coming here to vent and share my frustration with others.....it really helps (a lot)!

[mitchum]

41. How are you able to remain so reasonable all of the time?

I am in awe.

[Tank in Texas]

42. I'll Hold You to the "No Purge"...

...and I DO NOT expect that you will limit the voice of the people on this site. I trust this will remain a fair place to speak your mind. Right?

[aquart]

101. Define "fair."

[Tank in Texas]

105. OK- Definition of Fair

"fair":

Having or exhibiting a disposition that is free of favoritism or bias; impartial: a fair mediator. Just to all parties; equitable: a compromise that is fair to both factions.

I am assuming (and this may be a big assumption) that a group calling itself "Democratic Underground" would not censor or suppress opinions that might be critical of whomever the Democratic candidate is if a comment is made in a constructive manner.

If it WOULD, than any criticism of the current administration and Ashcroft's ilk would be hypocritical.

[library_max]

107. Hey, he already defined himself as "the voice of the people."

Does he have to define everything?

[sandnsea]

44. "Thoughtful criticism"

Wow. That's not what was said last year. Why am I so not surprised by this.

[onehandle]

45. John Kerry?

I'm still trying to get Jimmy Carter a second term.

Yellow Dog Democrat to the end!

Good luck figuring out new rules, Skinner.

[NightTrain]

46. Suggestion re: a replacement forum for GD: 2004 Primary.

How about GD: 2004 Election?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

58. It could just all move to Politics and Campaigns

Why not? I do like having the campaign threads all in one place though...

[UrbScotty]

144. I agree.

GD will come a very intense place if we don't keep things seperate.

[joshcryer]

47. Thanks Skinner / DU.

Great words of encouragement.

[Padraig18]

48. Today brought relief, and some closure...

It'll be good to be back on the same team again... :)

[hyphenate]

49. United we must stand

Or divided, we shall surely fall. And fail. Regardless of the giant money machine that feeds the GOP, we've got something they don't have--integrity.

[MichaelHarris]

50. amen bruthas and sistas

[IndianaGreen]

51. Well, we do have the convention coming up

and there will be issues involving the platform and credentials (such as should Zell Miller keep his superdelegate credentials).

I am not sure if the networks will be covering the conventions gavel-to-gavel as they did in the past, or give us an abbreviated version in which we only get to see the two nominees accepting the nomination for Prez and VP and giving their speeches.

It would be nice to have a forum just for the convention, followed by one for the general election (I hope we don't have another electoral fiasco, but if we do, we could have a Recount Part #2 forum).

[citizen snips]

52. I survived the flame wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[robbedvoter]

109. Whatever happened to your sig line? Shorter, somehow...eom

[Djinn]

53. Kudos

I regret that I was not more skillful in shepherding this place through this tough time

No need Skinner - you and all the mods did brilliantly as always. I certainly wont be going anywhere - I'd have serious withdrawl for a start!

[dolo amber]

54. Oooh!! Oooh!!

Tell us who your choice was, Skinner!! Tell us!! Tell us!! :bounce:

;)

Lovely message. There is no absolute reason for us to chew each other's faces off when there is a freakin' chimp in our White House!! EYES ON THE PRIZE, people. :bounce: :toast: :party:

[Spazito]

56. Thanks, Skinner!

I think you and all who worked to keep a semblance of fairness and decency without major censorship did a tremendous job under sometimes very tense conditions. We all had the choice to enter the fray, knowing the rules, or just bypass the threads and forums that were particularly "hot".

[Old and In the Way]

57. I'm amazed you kept your sanity.

No regrets from me to see this primary season come to a close.....now on to beating the unelected fraud.

[Aristus]

59. Well said, Skinner. That was a tonic for all of us who deplored the

infighting and venomous behavior exhibited by ultra-fanatical supporters of the various candidates for the nomination. I'm glad the primary season is over, and hope we can all come together to defeat The Chimp.

Let's roll!

[wyldwolf]

60. I think that "Thoughtful criticism," as you termed it, should be permitted

BUT I really think some things should be off limits.

One more skull and bones thread is one too many. Believers in it will never convince anyone else so one more thread about it will be nothing but divisive.

Kerry is bush-lite and Kerry isn't a real liberal. C'mon! If you can't take the time to do a little research, spare us the naive statements.

Did you know Kerry voted for__________ and against __________?

Yes, we know. In fact, there probably isn't anything you can tell us at this point about Kerry's political career that we don't already know and hasn't been posted at DU several times already.

In fact, my suggestion for people who just have to sling the mud about the nominee, short of "purging," would be their own forum that can only be accessed if you are a password holding member of DU. That way, non-members and freepers can't get in as easily for opposition research against Kerry, and the mudslingers can hi-five each other all day over their superior knowledge.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. Although you make some good points

clearly, we do need to be able to say, for example, this is the lastest BS attack for the GOP:

Did you know Kerry voted for__________ and against __________?

And here's why that's a bogus charge, etc.




But that's why we have human moderators who will have to make the judgements as to what is discussion, and what is an attack.

[For PaisAn]

128. Have to disagree

You just eliminated all topics that would contain any criticism of Kerry so,

"I think that "Thoughtful criticism," as you termed it, should be permitted"

will be nil.

What kind of criticisms will be on limits?

[wyldwolf]

137. So, in effect, you're saying...

Skull and bones, which is a highly suspect topic, void of virtually any substantial evidence of anything wrong, should be a fair topic of criticism?

"Kerry isn't a liberal," a highly opinioned statement of which the facts state otherwise, should be a fair topic of criticism?

"Kerry voted for_______ or against____________ such and such," something we ALL ALREADY KNOW, shoud be repeated over and over for the sake of making the poster feel self important?

Nope!

[MurryMom]

61. Thank you!

Thanks, Skinner. Although I backed Howard Dean and then John Edwards in the primaries, Democrats can be proud to have John Kerry as our nominee. I pledge to support the Democratic nominee financially, on the Internet, and in other ways from now until Election Day.

[Hotler]

62. Right on brother!

n/t

[Junkdrawer]

63. Can't wait to see what disruptive tactics will be used...

to divide us during the General Elections. /sarcasm off

[genius]

64. Kerry's okay but he is NOT the nominee.

He doesn't have anywhere near the number of votes needed to be the nominee and there are two other candidates in the race who will not drop out until after the convention.

When Kerry has enough votes to qualify, then you can call him the nominee. Until then, that term does not apply to him.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm NOT one of the Kerry bashers. I've generally defended him. I just want the race to be called accurately.

[boxster]

65. Al and Dennis have no chance.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/

Kerry has 1557. He needs 2162. He'll get more than 400 more next Tuesday.

Dennis has 18. Al has 24. They're in no position to stop him.

Want to explain how there is any conceivable way he WON'T be the nominee?

[Zhade]

66. "He'll get more than 400 more next Tuesday."

Exactly. He'll be the nominee next Tuesday.

Yes, I despise Kerry. No, I'm not being a prick. I'm just pointing out that he's not yet the nominee (though it appears he will be), and thus supporters of other candidates are NOT bound by any "support the nominee" rules just yet.

In a week, sure. Now, no.

[boxster]

69. If you can provide a reasonable explanation on how either Al or Dennis

has any chance whatsoever of stopping him, I'll reconsider.

Otherwise, I, just like nearly everyone else, including Kerry's last remaining significant opponent - Mr. Edwards, say he's the nominee and will continue to refer to him as such.

[Zhade]

70. Oh, I have no explanation.

There is none. It's clear he will be the candidate. By the rules, however, he is not yet the candidate. Just pointing out that Kerry fans can wait a week before beginning the purge, that's all I intended to say.

[boxster]

76. Purge?

1) Perhaps you didn't read Skinner's posting clearly enough. There will be no purge by the DU Admins, for one.

2) Show me one posting by a Kerry supporter that is suggesting that Kucinich supporters will be purged from anything.

Good luck, because there aren't any. Stating that Kerry is already the nominee is a far cry from suggesting a purge of any kind.

[Zhade]

77. I'm not picking a fight with you. Please don't pick one with me.

1) By Skinner and moderators, no. But considering there HAVE been calls for purges by Kerry supporters in the past, I don't consider it a stretch to expect at least one or two such posts to crop up again.

2) Straw man argument. I'm not saying the words you're putting in my mouth.

[boxster]

84. Excuse me, but you're the one who brought up the "purge".

This "purge" claim has been repeated ad nauseum by some Dean and Kucinich supporters and frankly, I've never seen any of them provide any documentation whatsoever that anyone has said that they should be purged from DU.

On the contrary, what I have seen is a significant number of posts stating the Kerry is the de facto nominee and that we should all support him in his efforts to beat Bush in November.

Asking people to back the nominee (and subsequently, to tone down criticism of him) and calling for a purge are not the same thing, contrary to what some people have claimed.

You, and others, are railing against calling him the nominee. You are perfectly free to believe whatever you want and to voice those beliefs, but the majority of people see Kerry as the nominee right now. The rest is semantics.

Sure, technically, he is not the nominee. In reality, however, it is inevitable and it makes little sense to argue that even a remote possibility exists that he will not be the nominee.

If we are going to beat Bush in November, we need to begin activities fully assuming Kerry has won. Because, for all intents and purposes, he has won.

This entire argument has been based on the fact that "genius" above stated that Kerry's not the nominee, based on semantics and technicalities. He also claimed, "He doesn't have anywhere near the number of votes needed to be the nominee".

In this, I disagree, and I provided reasons why. For all intents and purposes, Kerry *is* the nominee.

"2) Straw man argument. I'm not saying the words you're putting in my mouth."

What are you talking about? You're the one who brought up the "purge" in the first place:

"Just pointing out that Kerry fans can wait a week before beginning the purge"

What purge? They're in no position to purge anyone from DU, which was my point. I certainly don't have to put words in your mouth that you pretty clearly provided yourself.

[Zhade]

95. You're right, there's no point in arguing.

If you honestly haven't seen even one "purge" thread here on DU, then we're coming at the issue from different views. I've seen a couple, but if you haven't, there's no basis for the discussion, and I'd be wasting your time.

[genius]

118. That remains to be seen. Until he gets the delegates, he not the nominee.

In the meantime there's a good chance Dennis or Al could walk away from a brokered convention as the nominee.

[cyclezealot]

136. DK will be loyal

It does not matter whether or not Dennis Kucinich can win. Issues are what rallied us to DK from the on set. Dennis' role is not to undermine Kerry but to demonstrate the role the Iraq war, trade, and medical coverage has to the parties base.
I can not understand for one minute why Kucinich's role is one bit controversal..Any DU forum discussion on the war or trade shows broad support for Dennis' positions.Kucinich is only reinforcing our widely held beliefs as Ted Kennedy did just today about Bush's lies in Iraq.And today the US Democratic Senatorial policy group demonstrated from Capitol Hill.(Dorgan's hearing on trade)
We have expected such positions from the Democratic Nominee. If not?
I count that what DK does this next couple weeks , only helps the next Democratic platform to speak to the needs of the American people.
Should Kerry not endorse those widely held Democratic values about job losses,perpetual war, and bad trade deals. Then our disappointment will not be bitter, for many of us will just fade away.
So our role is to help show Kerry the way to victory or else all stop wasting our time.

[Zynx]

71. The Super delegates who will flock to him are enough alone.

On Tuesday he will have enough.

[Tank in Texas]

73. I agree he's not the nominee yet...

... should be fun in July!

[Bluzmann57]

67. Thanks to you for the message

While Senator(President?) Kerry isn't perfect, who among us is? As I have stated on numerous occasions, Al Gore was not a good candidate in 2000, imo, but I still supported his bid for election because bush is a complete dumbass. This DUer supported Edwards in the Iowa Caucuses, but am 100% behind Kerry now. As far as his conservative or Liberal leanings, it seems that bushco are already tuning up and calling him "too liberal", like thats a bad thing. The fact of the matter is people, that a large majority of people out there in this great land of ours do not consider themselves Liberal. I am not here to debate whether this is good or bad, just stating a fact. So Senator (President) Kerry may be better off being somewhat of a "centrist", as Clinton was. So we must pull together, swallow your pride, or whatever it is, and go out and work our tails off for Kerry. He has to win this election or our great country may not recover. Thank you.

[David Zephyr]

72. Skinner, Gracious, Considerate and Honest.

Thank you, first of all, for resisting the call to "purge" people from the site and the camaraderie that they have been part of.

Like you, I anticipated this day would arrive here when you and EarlG would be confronted with the challenge you now face: to balance supporting a nominee of the Party and still permitting free-wheeling discourse amongst the kindred spirits assembled here at this "soul mission".

Please consider what I wrote on February 7th here at your site knowing this day would arrive:

"It is my hope that the DemocraticUnderground.Com will remain the very same home it has been for over three years to Democrats, Greens, Socialists and Leftists from all over the world---many of whom can’t even vote here. Don't we need them, too? And while it is understandable that there would be a desire to defeat Bush, I would suggest that to stifle any and all criticism of the Party’s nominee would render the Democratic Underground to little more than a Basement extension below the Democratic National Committee’s House, hardly an underground. More an Upstairs / Downstairs arrangement.

"And herein is the thankless challenge facing poor EarlG and Skinner and the Administration, to somehow hold it all together, to stop the precious egg from falling from off the wall. And we can help them as individuals by re-evaluating many of the irrational expectations we may have from other DU’ers. Finally, it is my most sincere hope that many of the banned DU’ers may be allowed to come back as well."

And, I do ask you once again to please consider an amnesty to many who were banned here for, shall we say, being perhaps too loyal to one of our Party's very own candidates. Certainly, the disruptors and freepers would not be included in this, but there are some good-hearted folks who could be welcomed back.

Warmest Regards,

David Zephyr

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=288522

[MoonRiver]

78. Thank you so much!

Managing DU must be like herding cats (got that one from an inservice). You've done a superhuman job Skinner! Meow! :hug:

[xultar]

79. Thanks Skinner, for a gift I'm gonna flash a boob @ unt

[Bread and Circus]

80. You have done a GREAT JOB! Though my candidate didn't win...

and there was a lot of spam here against him, you did
a wonderful job of keeping us together.

We need to stay together behind Kerry. WE can still disagree
about issues but "Politics of Personal Destruction" should be
off limits.

Thanks, even for deleting some of my posts.

[einniv]

81. Good luck to us all!

I think this one is going to be a slam dunk.

But there will be rough times with this bunch in the white house. You can count on it.

But always remember... or no wait... its never forget...


DON'T PANIC

[looking glass]

83. Thanks n/t

[pans11]

85. I am on Board

John Kerry was my first pick, but I am going to give him all of my support now... Thanks Skinner

[TOhioLiberal]

86. Thanks Skinner!

N/T

[Kimber Scott]

87. Go Kerry!

Let's kick some neo-con ass!

:kick:

[wicket]

88. Go Kerry!

I'm with you on this :) :) :D :*

[Samantha]

89. I think we need general guidelines and rules of thumb but not absolute

forbidden subjects or comments. It can't be a true DemocraticUnderground if that becomes the case. I came here not too long after the site opened deploring the lack of support Dems gave Al Gore during Election 2000. One of my first posts complaint bitterly about Kerry for just that reason.

Had that not been the case, I would not have developed a huge amount of respect for Kerry since Bush* started occupying the White House because of the apparent support Kerry has lent in some controversial areas. Therefore, my "support" of Kerry will be as follows: today, several friends of mine, knowing I am a political junkie, commenced complaining about Kerry. Not knowing quite how to respond, I simply said, "Bush is corrupt and chronically lies to the American people. Kerry is not perfect but he comes a lot closer to it than does Bush.*" That's as far as I am going. I simply cannot be a political hypocrite.

I don't know how you guys do what you do. I can't say enough good things about you. I hope you don't get too involved, however, in banning people from making remarks about third parties. I don't support Nader or any other third party; however, it has never bothered me in the least to read others comments here.

I am not a fighter by nature, but I learned to withstand and ultimately return fire on attacks resulting from my simply voicing an opinion different from that of the majority. It made a better person out of me. Due to those attacks, I deveoped the courage to stand up to my Republican family and friends. Coming from a very Conservative Republican background, it has not been easy. I owe the fact that I can do this today entirely to the aggressive posters on the DemocraticUnderground! Thank you very much! There's a lot to be said for having sharks in the political waters here because learning to swim against them here enables one to withstand them better in real political life....

And to all who run to the moderators to run interference, shame, shame, shame! Learn to stand up for yourself and fight, fight, fight. Leave the moderators alone.

I hope to write some anti-Bush essays and post them around for my contribution to Election 2004. So while I am not salivating over Kerry, I do start to foam at the mouth when I think of Bush* having four more years -- so I will work to defeat him.

Thank you, Skinner, for all that the DemocraticUnderground has done to teach me to learn to fight. It's something I needed to learn to do considering what we are up against today. I am sure many others feel the same.

Congratulations to you and the crew for all your wonderful work here.

[dax]

126. Similar to the idea I was forming-lets frame the campaign!

In trying to decide what we do with the GD forum-why not have an ongoing thread where people contribute ideas on how the campaign could take on the opposition and mybe the mods or all could vote to send the best ideas on and see if they would use them or we can just educate ourselves. Example-Bush just did his ad using ground zero, firefighters and some elderly people. If I were running Kerry's campaign, I would have a blurb from a firefighter about how they didn't get first responder money, a senior describing how the Medicare bill doesn't pay for their very common illness treatment, maybe a teacher describing what they NEED to improve schools and the impact of the Bush bill, maybe a 911 family member describing how they can't get real answers from Bush Admin. Just a few thoughts-I would love to have the Rove job and do it clean-the truth is out there we just need to USE IT. And say what we want to DO-how things could be. The Democrats have been way too thin on the "vision thing".
I am too full of the vision thing- whenever I run for a union office, I lay out exactly what I would do everyone says they agree its the best plan and then they vote for the good lookin ass licker scmoozers and I can't get the equivalent of dog catcher in this town!

[Festivito]

90. A wish for healing to all those who need it.

Come November, we'll need all of you.

[ngGale]

91. Thank you Skinner but as for right now...

I feel like getting in bed and covering my head up under the covers.
It's going to take me some time to find my center again. Please do keep the DU going--I'll have to get up--eventually.

[WyLoochka]

92. Skinner, Skinner, Skinner

You are one amazing person. I hope to be able to meet you some day.

[nomatrix]

93. Skinner, a uniter not a divider

restoring honor & dignity to GD 2004 Primary,

Thank You for your fair and balanced look at the situation.

[mvd]

94. Sounds good, Skinner!

I feel like you have effectively weighed the needs of both sides of the issue of our nominee. Different opinions should be allowed, but too much divisiveness will take the purpose out of DU.

[mermaid]

96. I Appreciate That At Least YOU Understand, Skinner!!

I am one of those who is now deeply hurting, and crying...because John Kerry is the apparent nominee. In my opinion, only Joe Lieberman could have been worse.

Take heed, Kerry-backers...please do not gloat. Those of us who did not support Kery, and supported other guys are very badly disappointed and hurting right now.

We feel betrayed once again...by our Party...by the voters who just can't stand to vote for anyone but the appaernt front-runner....by another bought and paid for suit, like John Kerry.

I cried when I heard Edwards concede. It was the right thing to do...and by God, the man showed incredible class, dignity, enthusiam, and optimism that made me proud to be an Edwards supporter.

Do not worry, Kerry will get my vote, albeit very reluctantly, in Novemebr..and only because my general dislike of Kerry on his handling of transgender issues is outweighed by my hatred of Bush.

But, unless Kerry picks Edwards or Dean for his running mate, I will not vote Kerry in 08. I'll go third-party. Scream at me if you want, but I cannot stomach supporting a man such as John Kerry, who sent me and my people to the back of the civil rights bus.

My vote in November is a vote AGANST Bush, and not FOR Kerry...and I am still deeply hurting and crying...the one guy I sincerely hoped would not be our nominee...and he turns out to be the man....why, oh why does this always happen to me?? The guys I like NEVER fresaking win, and then the supporters of those who did win gloat and tub our faces in it, and get us more upset and pissed off.

So, please, Kerry-backers...have some heart and compassion. There are many of us out there who are seriously upset, and disappointed, and even crying. don't rub it in...okay? Be a gracious winner, take your prize, and shut up about it, okay? please?

[nolabels]

97. "re-defeat the illegitimate, unelected moron" exactly, thank you

And if you are really stuck for looking for a title for that Forum to replace the GD: 2004 Primary forum, as just a off the wall suggestion, how about "re-defeat the illegitimate unelected moron forum"

[silverweb]

99. Thank you, Skinner.

I'm with you 100%!

:toast:

[aquart]

100. Yup. Let's get to work.

We have a nation to rescue, a constitution to preserve.

[cboy4]

102. Now I'm totally confused, is it

"unelected moron," or "unelected moran?" LOL :bounce:

[jimshoes]

103. Sincere Thanks for all your hard work...

Thank you to the admins & mods who worked very hard to keep DU a coherent and viable forum through some trying and highly charged times. The decision to create the GD Primary forum was IMHO the right choice at the right time. Keep up the great work.

[edzontar]

104. The correct decision--thank you.

I am sure you have frustrated some of our more "passionate" colleagues who were salivating for a purge, but you did right.

Count me in.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbedvoter]

108. ABB as ever, but now a Clark Democrat wiser about how to fight

and surrounded by a great group of people - the Clarkies.
Almost left the party, but Clark told me to stick with it - so here I am now- a Clark democrat ready to do my best to defeat Bush.
I am back to voting against someone - but for one brief shining moment in my life - I voted FOR someone.
The primaries are now over as far as I am concerned.
Some day, If I am lucky, I'll get the chance to vote FOR again.
Now, AGAINST bush.

[wryter2000]

110. I assume the Democratic in DU refers to the party

If so, I don't want to see any bashing of our candidate here. He wasn't my first choice, but he's my guy now.

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Skinner. Keep up the good work. :toast:

[Ivote]

111. Thank You Skinner

:grouphug: We're all in this TOGETHER!

[beachbum]

112. Sounds like a good plan

I have been searching for a Democratic place to hang, and I have finally found it here. Such a diverse group. It is awesome.

Being a Texan, I will still go vote in my primary next Tuesday. Then I will proudly support Kerry in the general election.

It is hard and sometimes thankless work you and the other moderators do, but we are thanking you now. I have done a little moderating of some chat rooms, on a MUCH smaller scale. It can be tough work.

Thanks again. :)

[nofurylike]

113. thank you, Skinner. n/t

[Crewleader]

114. Thanks Skinner....

Democratic Solidarity! :-)

[mmonk]

115. Excellent, Skinner

[tokenlib]

116. How to rush the grief process....

It goes back to "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
Just watching the new Bush campaign ads, just hearing Greenspan's social security comments treated as words from God, just paying attention to the latest antics of the Bush regime should help give most of us the "heave ho" onto the Kerry caravan.

Skinner, you need not worry! With every breath Bush takes, he works to unify us all!

Also I suggest keeping the 2004 primary forum and renaming it 2004 presidential election. Politics and campaigns could then absorb all the state and local stuff. General discussion could absorb all the daily discussion on news, policies, legislation, etc.

[enough]

117. You have done a superb job.

Don't change a thing.

[welshTerrier2]

119. thank you for all you do here ...

i have felt that from time to time, the admins were a wee bit paranoid that people were critical of how they conducted business on DU ... perhaps the admins had indeed been attacked by those who did not agree with their policies ...

as for me, I think they all have done a super job under extremely difficult circumstances ... i will say that i was an early proponent for creating the 2004 primary forum as a separate forum from the GDF ... at first, my proposal was rebuked by the admins ...

the new forum was frequently dark and ugly ... i am thankful that the admins realized how important this division was ... DU would have been intolerable if all discussions were drowned by the candidate partisans ...

anyway, i think the admins have almost always exercised great judgment, great patience and great tolerance for the differences that exist among us ... and i thank them for all they do here ...

[madaboutharry]

120. Dear Skinner,

Do you really think you could have done things differently? That would mean you have power over human nature. There are people in the world who thrive on rage and anger and putting others down, no matter what the topic. Some of these people post on DU. I think you did a great job and although some other boards have referred to DU as being hateful and uncivilized, I found that frequent use of the ignore button helped considerably. I am with you, I am not thrilled with Kerry but he seems to understand what it will take to win this election.

Keep up the good work.

[kaitykaity]

121. Here always and forever.

Thank you Skinner for this safe haven. I'd have lost my sanity without DU. Don't be so hard on yourself, okay? :yourock:

[info being]

122. Here's an idea for the replacement to the Primary Forum:

A forum called "The Democratic Undergound".

A place where Progressives who do not wish to conform to a corrupt party can speak freely. A place where truth and justice is valued beyond politics.

That's what I thought the Democratic Undergound was when I first stumbled upon it a year ago. If I'm mistaken, I'll have to find another favorite message board.

If we are to have any credibility, we should have an unmoderated "free speech" section of the site for those who want to spend time there. Some of us are very comfortable with wide open debate. Those who shy away from that sort of thing can spend their time in the other forums.

[rhite5]

130. I like this idea, info being

I am especially concerned with continuing to find ways to bring more progressivism into the Democratic Party, so I am very much focused on figuring out how we can influence the Party Platform in July.

Those of us who support candidates other than Kerry are counting on our candidates to fight for those progressive values on the floor at the convention. We know we won't get all we want, but we need to try in order to get anything.

So I would like to discus tactics we can use between now and July. There are about 20 states that have not yet had their primaries. I think there are some things we can do to help beef up the progressive voice at the convention.

The last thing I want is for the DNC to look at the results of the Primary period and say:
• Democrats do not seem very concerned about Iraq and getting our troops home;
• Democrats do not seem very concerned about jobs and NAFTA;
• Democrats don't seem to really want a serious revamping of the way we do Healthcare in America.

Taking away the importance of those issues -- which are of vital importance to an awful lot of people -- makes people like me wonder whether I can continue to be a Democrat.

[wellstone dem]

123. But, but, but.....

you're right.

Thanks for a great haven. I don't post much, but I've been a member here since I found this place when Paul Wellstone died, and I needed comfort.

Thanks.

[in_cog_ni_to]

124. Thank You for DU. n/t

[whathappened]

125. to all the familys of du

we now have to stand together as one and get behind j.k and fight for his election together , i have set here and read everything about all the men and women running for this high office and weighted the choices in my mind with out yelling to anybody about who i felt would be a good choice for this country , now that j.k. is our choice we need to get the word out to all that we have got to get this man elected in 04 , to save this country from one of it's biggest falls by the hands of jr. and his merry boy's

[silver state d]

129. you da bomb skinner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peacebuzzard]

132. The majority of DUers are left of center and thus the conflicts....

I would presume that if a poll were taken of the DU flock, that Kerry would rate conservative. Republican-lite. But you know what, that is what the majority of our Dem voters and politicians are. So, it is not perfect for us liberals, but we have got to work with it. We have got to work with it.
As a poster we comes and especially goes alot, I have noticed the absence of alot of the great old handles I enjoyed and yes, the rhythm of this board has changed, but so does life. I think the important thing is Kerry can and will kick ass because he does have the potential with a unified support and approach. Last night I found a link someone placed for donations to Kerry and tho I agree w/ the one who said only Lieberman could have been worse, I donated a few dollars which is all I can today. Kerry has got to win.

[rhite5]

131. Democrats in about 20 states have not had their Primaries yet.

I want them to be encouraged to vote for the candidate whose positions are closest to their own. For them it is not time to jump on the Kerry bandwagon.

This is the only way we have of telling the DNC what values we want the Party to stand for. Sure, Kerry will be the nominee, but those Party Platform decisions are extremely important.

There will be delegates in July who were (and/or will be) selected to represent candidates who have withdrawn and candidates who have no chance as well as Kerry candidates. Platform decisions will be made.

Since we know Kerry will be the nominee, voters have nothing to lose by voting for another candidate and helping build their bank of delegates for those platform votes.

The issues are very very important this time for Democrats and we want the Democratic Party to know this.

[drdigi420]

133. Does this mean the old GD is finally coming back?

That would be awesome, especially if it meant the end of all those locked threads due to punctuation, capitalization, 'bad' words, or the mention of a candidate.

[usregimechange]

134. Skinner would make a good counselor...

Thanks doc.

[juajen]

135. I liked the 2004 GD forum, but the infighting was fierce.

I think, however, that the allegiance to individual candidates added a lot to the excitement of this primary, and this was good. I, too, hope that everyone will remember what we are fighting for and get solidly behind JFKerry. He deserves everyone on this board's support, just as we promised.

Originally, he was my first choice; then I fell in love with Kucinich, then Clark. I think it's pretty wonderful that we had so many good candidates that I could be that conflicted. I'm not usually indecisive.

Thank you Skinner and all administrators. You done good!!!

[NicRic]

138. Thanks, united we stand ,devided we fall !

We must unite like never B/4 , no matter who you supported B/4 ,Kerry is going to be the man and for the sake of our great country , we must keep our eye on the prize. Priceless > seeing bushes face on the stage as Kerry is being sworn in!

[KC21304]

139. Yes, priceless. Hold onto that image.

Thanks Skinner and all DU admin, mods, contributors, and posters for making this a great place to hang out.

[The Traveler]

140. Skinner rocks

You guys did a great job, in my opinion. DU folk are passionately committed to their purposes and that sometimes leads us to, uh, excessive commentary and reaction. I wouldn't want that to change ... at least not the passionate commitment part ...

I'm new to DU, but even with all the vitriol flying around, DU has been becoming my "virtual home bar", my regular place, as it has for many of the new people. That should offer you evidence that, yeah, you guys have been successful at establishing the kind of place you wanted to create. You've done a great job, and we know it wasn't easy!

:yourock:

[eileen_d]

142. I just want to take this opportunity

to personally apologize for the times I was a whiny, flamethrowing PITA (Pain In The Ass). Perhaps they were overshadowed by the times I was a calm, soothing voice of reason, but just in case ;) I know there were times I should have exercised more self-control before posting and I didn't.

Thanks again to Skinner, the other admins and all the mods for sticking it out in GD 2004. I too look forward to re-defeating the illegitimate, unelected moron this November. :thumbsup:

[Dr Fate]

143. Noted. Thanx, Old Bossman...n/t

n/t

[ObieMoby]

145. Skinner you Rock II

YOU are ever the voice of commom sense, fairness and reason. You must come from good stock! Keep up the good work!!! I hope Kerry, our new candidate will show himself to be a strong voice for the environment and the needs of seniors, two areas of strong personal interest. M/M/N