Is same sex marriage going to be the achilles heel of the Dems?

[eeyore]

I live in Portland, Oregon and I can tell you that conservatives here are freaking out and will mobilize against this. They feel incredibly threatened, and are going to be screaming non-stop until the presidential election that Democrats want to force them to accept government-sanctioned sin. They will most certainly be successful in bringing about a ballot measure against same sex marriage in Oregon now, and will likely be successful.

This issue will bring out the conservative voters in Oregon, and it's really starting to worry me that this could really hurt us.

I have many friends who are married and gay, and I want them all to have every right that I do, and I want it to happen as soon as possible. But we are in for a HUGE fight, and it will mobilize a lot of people who might have just stayed home.

What do you all think?

[slackmaster]

1. NO! It will be the albatross around the neck of Republicans

Mark my words.

The right's objections to same-sex marriage all boil down to religious issues being packaged as "moral" ones. People by and large don't like having someone else's religion crammed down their throats. Once the electorate realizes that's what the anti-SSM zealots are doing they'll bolt.

The battle will be long and at times very ugly. Couples like the brave people in San Francisco will hit speed bumps along the way, maybe even have their marriages declared null and void at some point. But they will win in the long run.

[damnyankee2601]

11. Roger that.

You can only play the homophobia card so far. Joe sixpack isn't interested in ammending the constitution when his house is getting foreclosed.

They have hung a big sign on their necks that screams "BIGOTS," and most people won't knowingly vote for bigotry.

[West Coast Democrat]

2. Let 'em try another stupid ballot measure

They're going to make a lot of enemies in the process.

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. Lots of people oppose equal rights for everyone. Not everyone agrees

on which groups should be exempt, though.

[mitchtv]

4. I think "our time is Now"

I refuse to wait , or take one for the team. Time for the Dems to develop a backbone, and stand up for my rights, or lacking that , cut a deal so that gays pay less taxes ; say, 3/5ths. No more next times.

[baffie]

10. Taxes should be the same for marrieds and singles.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. i agree

[mitchtv]

24. so should rights

.

[mitchtv]

26. the same , me too,but that's not what's going on

gay couplespay as 2 singles, pay inherideance taxes treating partners'estates as 'gifts' forcing unreasonable probates

[sadiesworld]

13. "that gays pay less taxes; say, 3/5ths" Huh?

[mitchtv]

25. by george, you've got it

.

[genius]

5. That's up to us. Our candidates have been diffusing that issue

They just need to keep re-directing people to the real issues.

[molly]

6. The Rove mind will be sorry they started this

it's going to come back and bite them - HARD!

[BOSSHOG]

7. Absolutely NOT

Democrats aren't forcing anyone to accept anything. We have to ensure the issue is the anti-love, gay hating republicans. They want to guarantee the sanctity of marriage by preventing people from loving each other from getting married. Dems and liberals aren't DOING anything with this issue. The haters are the action agent in this atrocity. Thankfully there exists a powerful liberal presence in this country or conservatives would not stop at just banning gays from marrying. They would build ovens to get rid of homosexuals. They would reinstate slavery. They would take the vote away from women. Conservative values at work. Believe it.

[David__77]

8. Well, start organizing to counter them.

There's no alternative to fighting them. They were stopped in Oregon on other issues. I think we can win here as well.

Unfortunately, it does seem that it easy to have a constitutional amendment vote.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. Winning and Losing

I know winning this election is really important to us. And even though I want the right to marry I think there are more important issues like poverty and unemployment.

However in my opinion what is the point of winning this election if we have no convictions? no real platform? no standards? Everything can be an Achiles heal (welfare, gay marriage, raising taxes) but without taking stances how will the democratic party define itself. "We are not as bad as bush" is an awful campaign slogan

[Davis_X_Machina]

12. Will it motivate Pugs? Yes.

But they're not voting for a Dem anyways.

I see the GOP emphasis on the FMA as a good sign. The GOP can't just wink at their base and run to the middle this time. Their base wants their pound of flesh, and it's not a pretty one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. No, because

it's primary purpose is not to motivate the RW base, but to divide us, and it's not working.

[eeyore]

15. I'm with you all

Just be prepared for some really crazy shit! I was here when the fundies tried to amend the state constitution to forbid any positive mention of homosexuality in the schools and government ducuments. It went down, but I personally was accosted by random psychos multiple times during the lead up to the vote.

I was working for a brewery, and someone from Queer Nation put a sticker on our beer truck that said "BUTTFUCKING IS FUN!". I had no idea I was driving around with that on the truck, and a rabid fundie charged up to me and challenged me to a fight for exposing his kid to my perversion. I just told him that we should call the cops and see what they would say about it, which made him tear off in a huff. In retrospect it was pretty funny, but damn scary at the time.

My point is that things will most likely get very uncivil, and quite possibly violent.

That whole thing happened around the election of Clinton in 1992. This feels like Groundhog Day.

[Tempest]

16. Even if it does mobilize the Repugs...

They still have a long way to go to catch up to the energy displayed by the Democrats.

And remember, there's a lot more registered Democrats and Independents then there are Repugs.

BTW, recent polls show the gay issue barely registers with likely voters.

The real issues are, and will continue to be, the economy and the war in Iraq.

[bushisanidiot]

17. On The Contrary, It's Rove's Double Edged Sword

the dems can easily stay nuetral on the issue and not lose any votes, while the repukes are DEMANDING that their party take a STRONG stand on this issue which puts president shitferbrains behind the 8 ball. AWOL will lose votes over this no matter which way he goes.. the log cabin repukes will lose at least half their membership over this.. and the libertarian leaning repukes may end up staying home.

AWOL risks ticking off his ultra conservative base if he doesn't do what "God tells him to do" (declare gays and acceptance of gays unconstitutional). If he ticks them off many will stay home or vote 3rd party (reform party or whatever buchanaan was)

[mot78]

18. No an here's why:

The Repugs have their own problems with it. * was against an amendment until recently, so he's waffled on it. Many prominent Repugs and Conservatives oppose the amendment (Ahhnold, Roy Moore, Chuck Hagel, etc) and many of those "activist judges" were appointed BY Repug Governors. Only one of the judges in MA who supported the Gay Marriage ruling was a Dukakis appointee.

[eurolefty]

20. I've been told that...

you guys are supposed to have some sorta separation of church and state?:evilgrin:

"Government-sanctioned sin" that is just so Taleban. Sounds like you need to have the approval of some religious wingnut council in order to grant some civil rights to all U.S. citizens.

Land of the Free... :evilgrin:

[Demobrat]

21. I'm afraid it might be.

I think the solution is to go to civil unions for everybody, gay and straight, except those who get married in church. If I make it legal with my Catholic boyfriend in Vegas, the church won't recognize us as married any more than it would if we were gay, so why not just call it what it is and call it a day? Not a popular opinion I know, but I think it would work to take some of the emotion out of the issue.

[salin]

22. It seems to be taking on the opposite effect

I wouldn't have guessed this a few weeks ago... but several states are turning back efforts that are being attempted to be bullied through... and its not working.

For example here in Indiana we have a short legislative session... suddenly the House GOP tries to push a measure through (they are a minority by 2 seats)... claiming "This Is The Most Important Issue Facing Indiana, Today". Thing is... its not. We are still trying to work our way out of a property tax mess.. and deal with budget deficits. The Hous Speaker wouldn't hear their bill/effort and the GOP walked out... shut work down.

Not that folks in Indiana are Pro Gay Marriage... but many folks seem puzzled, taken aback, and a tad disturbed with the tactics of the right... and how... contrived/staged it looks.

Same kind of reaction towards Bush announcement... when the GOP in the Senate and House were NOT happy to take it on (a bit nervous about tinkering with the constitution... esp when the issue is transparent pandering rather than dealing with a serious constitutional issue in great need of immediate attention.)

It seems to be working more negatively for the GOP. I could not have predicted this... and perhaps we need to see how the story keeps unfolding.

[slinkerwink]

23. nope....