Obama ....series of 4 pictures

[tyne]

Doesn't look like a snub. His explanation makes sense.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Well! Did you ever!

[neutron]

38. send to MSM

MSNBC asked Senator Dachell if he thought Obama would snub Clinton and he said
that obviously someone said something to Obama and he turned to listen to them.
He said that it happens to him all the time ;-)

CNN said that "some people were making a big deal about this" and obviously
the viewer was not seeing what was actually right in front of him.

[otohara]

111. And Don't Forget "The View"

cuz I heard it was quite the discussion today and much to do about nothing was in outrage overkill.

[EffieBlack]

144. The TODAY Show led with it

But, interestingly, just a few minutes later, they did a joint interview with Obama and Kennedy - and never asked about it. And then, after the interview, went back to talking about the "snub."

I guess they didn't want their obsessing over nothing to get undercut by an actual explanation by either of two of the three people involved.

[Hieronymus]

106. It seems to have happened exactly as Obama said ... huge surprise ......

[cooolandrew]

146. K&R

[Quixote1818]

133. Wow, this ended up backfiring for the Clinton folks because two articles surfaced

that said Hillary actually DID snub Obama on the Senate floor. So, Obama ends up vindicated and now we know Hillary has actually snubbed Obama. Thats too rich! :rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

135. Yes

that's what's all over the news today :eyes:

[Quixote1818]

139. I hope it stays out of the news because it's stupid

What I was talking about was your integrity.

[MonkeyFunk]

141. Quixote

do you have examples that demonstrate my integrity is stupid (not that that makes much sense, semantically)?

[Quixote1818]

143. I didn't say you were stupid

I said the subject was stupid. I like you. :hi:

[MonkeyFunk]

150. oh! I parsed that all wrong

sorry!

[Quixote1818]

153. No problem. I assumed you had looked at it wrong. I have done the same thing

Once we end up with a candidate it will be nice having everyone on DU friends again and on the same side. Take care.:pals:

[pathansen]

166. If you want to see who is snubbing who, take a close look at the other pictures

See:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4264846
Now just scroll down and take a close look at #17.


:rofl:

[Quixote1818]

176. What about them?

:shrug:

[thereismore]

2. I vote for No snub. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

3. Whatever he did in those pictures, it was a mistake

imagewise. He knew she was there. He should've put out his hand and smiled. There were two possible outcomes to that: She shakes his hand and smiles, and that's the big news today. The two candidates, after a very tough two weeks, shake hands in unity. OR... he puts out his hand and she snubs HIM! For real. He comes out smelling like a rose, and her campaign is over.

By turning away, he ensured there would be some brouhaha, regardless of his intentions. At the very least, he missed a great opportunity.

So even given that there was no snub at all, he made a mistake.

[NastyRiffraff]

8. Obama? Making a mistake?

Heresy! :sarcasm:

[BeyondGeography]

11. What-EVER

She only wanted to shake Teddy's hand, not Obama's. There was never any "snub."

I do give you credit for not going over the edge with this today the way so many others have.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. did you read my post?

I never said he snubbed her.

Go back and read it carefully.

[tyne]

He said

that they had already smiled and waved at each other beforehand.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. He missed an opportunity

[MonkeyFunk]

35. Imagine what would have happened had he stayed there

and put out his hand.

There are two possible outcomes, both of which are very favorable to him.

By turning away, he created two possible outcomes: a bad one, and a worse one.

I'm not saying he did anything wrong. I'm not saying he snubbed her. I'm saying he missed an opportunity to be plastered all over the news today in a positive manner, instead of what's actually happening.

[LiberalHeart]

174. Yeah, but he shouldn't have waved with his middle finger.

[lapfog_1]

14. So why didn't Hillary reach out to offer HER hand to Obama

after shaking Ted's?

Why is it an Obama mistake?

Now that the snub issues is gone.

[MonkeyFunk]

It was a mistake

for the reasons I outlined above. At the very least, he missed an opportunity that had no possible downside. Instead, he took a course that had a possible downside - this one.

[Dawgs]

What about her? Didn't she miss the same opportunity?

[MonkeyFunk]

28. yes, but slightly less so

It's not unexpected that she would shake Kennedy's hand first. But by the time she got to Kennedy, Obama was already gone, so she didn't have the same opportunity.

Obama had to know she was right there - he should've waited to shake her hand. Obama turning away took away Clinton's opportunity.

[Dawgs]

36. You're joking right?

You really don't believe what you're writing - I hope?

[MonkeyFunk]

39. of course I believe it

what's the problem with my logic? You can think of this like a flowchart.

[grantcart]

108. the funny thing about "monkey" is that he/she drives the interest in

the thread by all of the nonsensical replies. More people see the pictures.

[MonkeyFunk]

119. I want people to see the pictures!

because I'm not arguing that he snubbed her.

I'm not arguing he engaged in any bad behavior at all.

[yardwork]

175. I agree completely with Monkey Funk on this one.

We're not insulting your candidate. We're not saying that he snubbed anybody. We're saying that he missed an opportunity to look gracious. That's all. Why is that so hard to see?

[JackORoses]

81. how did he 'have to know' that she was right there?

If he had already said 'Hello' earlier was he supposed to say it again?
How many times?

[MonkeyFunk]

89. because there are other pictures

of her very close, working her way in his direction, and he's looking directly at her.

And he could've ended it in 5 minutes by simply saying "Oh, I didn't know she was there."

[JackORoses]

159. there is no picture showing him looking directly at her

there is a picture where his head is turned in her direction, but he is not looking at Hillary.
she is being blocked from his view by the scarfed woman.

[MonkeyFunk]

162. Look

nobody except people here have claimed he didn't see her. Even Obama doesn't claim he didn't see her.

And is this the picture you're talking about?




You think the woman with the scarf is blocking his view?

[JackORoses]

172. you cannot see his line of sight in this photo

just because you want him to be looking at her doesn't make it so.
This is the whole problem. You can take one photo and see a thousand things in it.

Do you have any video evidence?

[BeyondGeography]

29. Don't you feel a little silly?

Obama made a mistake! Obama made a mistake! Obama made a mistake!

Absurd.

[MonkeyFunk]

43. Respond to the logic of my argument

I'm not saying he snubbed her. I'm not saying he did something "wrong". I'm saying he made a mistake of missing a golden opportunity to look good.

The fact that we're discussing this today instead of discussing how Clinton snubbed him proves that.

[BeyondGeography]

64. The fact that we're discussing this today proves that the media lives on manufactured bullshit

and that too many of us play along.

[MonkeyFunk]

72. Whether you LIKE that it's being discussed is irrelevant

it IS being discussed, and that's bad for him.

Had he extended his hand, there were two possible outcomes: one generally positive, one that secured him the nomination.

[JackORoses]

88. no, the fact that we are discussing this proves how shallow and desperate the Hillarites have become

Obama doesn't have to build his campaign around falsities.

[MonkeyFunk]

95. So you think

the fact that it's being discussed here today and all over the networks means he did the right thing?

I've defended Obama many times, and I like Obama. I'm not saying he behaved badly. I'm trying to be very dispassionate, but I see that doesn't go over well here.

The responses to me here are reflexive, mindless and unthinking. READ what I say and respond to my arguments, not my avatar.

[JackORoses]

160. I have read your posts. You are saying that he somehow didn't do anything wrong but still loses

You're saying he had a big chance to do what exactly?

If he had seen her and shaken her hand, nobody would be talking about anything.
He would have gained nothing.

Don't you realize a manufactured controversy when you see one?

Obama can do no right when it comes to Hillarites. If it hadn't been this, it would have been something else.

They are so damn scared of the Kennedy endorsement, they don't know what to do.
Thier first instinct is to smear.

[MonkeyFunk]

163. Well if he had shaken her hand

first and foremost, he wouldn't be on defense all day.

*I* think the photo op of him, Kennedy and Clinton together, smiling and shaking hands would've been big news. It would've been on the front page of every paper.

And Clinton isn't behind this story. It broke while she was still watching the State of the Union.

[JackORoses]

173. "And Clinton isn't behind this story" You have to be kidding me.

The Clinton Campaign is most definitely behind this story.

Noone else has anything to gain from such tripe.

Her people need something to distract from the Kennedys. They will try anything.

[Barack_America]

37. Simple. The "woman with scarf" was blocking their view of one another...

By the time Hillary leaned in to where they could have seen one another, Obama had already turned towards McCaskill.

Neither made a mistake.

[MonkeyFunk]

46. If that's true

then there was no mistake.

But I find it hard to believe that the bright scarlet woman a few feet in front of him wasn't seen.

And that's now the third excuse. He wanted to give Kennedy and Clinton some privacy. McCaskill called him over. Now he didn't see her. That doesn't fly.


Edit: Obama was JUST now on MSNBC, saying Claire McCaskill spoke to him just as Clinton was reaching to shake hands with Kennedy. So he KNEW she was there. He didn't say "I just didn't see her".

[Barack_America]

I don't doubt that he knew she was there...

He said that they acknowledged and waved to one another previously.

Here's what I think happened (personally-no proof):
1). The "woman in scarf" was blocking their view of one another.
2). Kennedy calls out to Hillary
3). Either McCaskill notices this and for some reason quickly calls out to Obama -or- Obama hears Kennedy call out to Hillary and turns towards McCaskill to answer a previously-asked question, possibly out of the awkwardness of the situation.

Point being, Hillary did not offer her hand to Obama and he did not refuse it. That's what these pictures prove.

[MonkeyFunk]

65. no

I'm saying he knew she was right in front of him, and he knew she was reaching to shake Kennedy's hand. I just heard Obama himself say that.

You seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying he did something "wrong" or behaved badly. I'm saying he missed an opportunity.

The fact that all the networks are discussing it proves it.

[lapfog_1]

110. But why is it incumbent on him to offer to shake her hand?

She obviously did not offer to shake HIS hand.

So why is this Obama's mistake (as you put it)?

Withe these photos I could make the case that Hillary, who could clearly see Obama (he has his head turned, she does not), snubbed Obama.

I'm not, because I don't think this is that big a deal.

[MonkeyFunk]

121. It wasn't incumbent on him

but he had a choice to make: extend his hand, or turn away.

Which option do you think was the wise one?

[lapfog_1]

134. If she had stuck her hand out for him to shake

it would have been wise to shake it and smile.

But that's not what happened here.

And I don't think she snubbed him either. Because I don't see him extending his hand to her and her not shaking it.

I think they both found other things to do... much like when I'm at a cocktail party and there is someone I work with but don't necessarily get along with... I find other things to do... to avoid the situation of either having to be "fake" and have a cordial conversation with someone I can't stand OR being outwardly rude. I'd rather avoid either choice.

Is that what happened here? I don't know. But it wasn't a snub.

[MonkeyFunk]

136. I never claimed it was a snub

My claim is a finer one: Had Obama waited and extended a hand to Hillary, there were only positive possible outcomes for him.

He took the other option and turned away, and now it's all over the news and people are speculating wildly, which is less preferable than the positive outcomes that extending his hand could've had.

[lapfog_1]

142. That would be correct.

It would have been a photo op... but not a controversy.

Both Obama and Hillary have some things to learn and experience to gain.

Ted Kennedy has that experience.

It must be hard to be a politician, I'm not sure I could hold my temper and "do business" with someone who just lied their asses off about me and my record (and I'm just being generic here, not referring to either Clinton or Obama).

[MonkeyFunk]

151. I'd like to thank you

for being the first person in this thread to actually have a discussion and come to agreement.

Yes, I think it's tremendously hard to be a politician, and I've posted that here a few times: I have the utmost respect for what they put themselves through.

I also think, though, that they take things a lot less personally than the observers do. People who rise to that level of politics know how to put aside personal feelings - they still have to work together no matter what, and some people can do that. I can't. Maybe it's inborn.

[lapfog_1]

178. No problem, we come from different perspectives

but logic wins out. As you and I have before.

You have to understand that with so many Hillary supporters posting about this issue, everyone is a little on edge... and I admit to being defensive because I think the issue was way overblown.

Yes, it would have been a masterful move by Obama, however, I don't believe it would have changed that much in the coming days. Obama is still behind but is gaining. And having Ted on the campaign trail will help, but time is not on Obama's side.

Nevertheless, I think at this point, no one is walking into Denver as the nominee... it's possible, but I don't think so.

A lot of things that Hillary does (like tonight promising to get the Florida delegates seated at the convention AFTER she knew that she was the winner) bother me. I'd like to think that they bother every Democrat, even Hillary supporters.

[Catherine Vincent]

102. Why would you offer your hand to someone and their BACK is turned toward you?

[Bake]

117. His back was to her?

Reach her hand out to do what? Smack him on the ass?

People can see whatever they want to see in those four pics. I see in the first one, that Obama must've seen Hillary - he's looking almost directly at her. Then he starts to turn around as she's reaching out to shake Ted's hand. I can't see anyone leaning in to speak to Obama.

So the four pics prove nothing, really.

Bake

[lapfog_1]

145. McCaskill is in the other photos of this event.

Plus we have her statement to the effect that she asked Obama a question.

So... is she lying to cover for her candidate?

Will that the be the spin from the Hillary supporters now?

[WinkyDink]

171. Because he wasn't facing her? Duh.

[featherman]

42. I agree... Obama should have made a point of it

Definitely an error in judgment not to realize the media would be honed in on such a dramatic moment.

[Avalux]

80. What was he supposed to do - reach out and intercept her hand before it got to Kennedy?

Hillary isn't even looking at him; all her attention is on Kennedy. Obama would have looked the fool to try to step in the middle and shake her hand.

[MonkeyFunk]

96. No

Wait until they finished shaking hands, then extend his own hand to her.

If she didn't see his hand? Then we'd all be discussing whether Hillary snubbed him.

[Bad Thoughts]

44. Obama didn't do the quantum calculations ...

... so that he could reach his arm through the woman standing between him and Clinton. Perhaps he needs some better physicists on his campaign.

[MonkeyFunk]

50. He knew she was heading that way

he should've waited.

I'm not attacking him at all - I'm dispassionately dissecting the situation and I think had he followed MY advice, nobody would be talking about this now.

[Bad Thoughts]

55. You treat the situation as if they were the only two people in the room

yet there were hundreds of people who could have been equally "snubbed." I think we should start blaming Kennedy, because he reached over in front of Obama, blocking his way.

[MonkeyFunk]

62. No I don't

we know a few things: He was near Clinton and knew it. She was reaching to shake Kennedy's hand, and he knew that - he was just on MSNBC saying so.

So, given that, he should've let them finish shaking hands, then extended his own. There was no possible downside to doing that.

Instead, all the networks are discussing his possible snub. They could've been discussing how she snubbed him or how nice the candidates are, uniting after two weeks of wrangling. Clearly, the fact that we're discussing it today shows his chosen course to have been a mistake.

[Bad Thoughts]

61. To show how ridiculous this is

Kennedy himself had to contort in a rather odd way to reach Clinton.

[BeyondGeography]

68. Obama should have jumped on Uncle Ted's back

then he could have shaken Hillary's hand.

[MonkeyFunk]

71. Stop it now

I'm not saying he behaved badly.

But respond to the logic of my argument above, instead of your insulting one-liners.

I like Obama - I'm not attacking him. I'm dissecting what happened and how he could've come out smelling like a rose. Instead, this is all over the news today, and that's not good for him.

[BeyondGeography]

73. It's worth a laugh, Monkey

You're not wrong (it would have been better if this never happened) and neither am I (it's all bullshit anyway).

[MonkeyFunk]

77. Can you put aside

partisan differences for one minute and try to read what I'm saying? It's a little more complex than "it would have been better if this never happened".

[BeyondGeography]

82. I've read it several times now

But, unlike you, I can't dignify this trumped-up incident with hairsplitting analysis.

It's a tempest in a teapot and it will be gone tomorrow. A perfect example of how Americans turn something meaningful (a presidential nominating contest) into vaudeville.

[MonkeyFunk]

97. sigh

Whether you or I think it's newsworthy, the fact is that it IS all over the news, and he's playing defense, and that's never good.

I understand why you're unhappy that this is getting coverage - really I am. You think I liked Bill's Jackson comparison getting the coverage it got? Of course not, and I believe THAT was overplayed and trumped up, too.

I'm trying to be as dispassionate as I can here, and you can search all my posts and you won't see me ever just slam Obama.

[BeyondGeography]

154. Which is what I recognized up top

your fair-mindedness, that is. We differ on the impact of this; I decided a long time ago not to get upset about everything the media deems newsworthy.

[MonkeyFunk]

168. Thanks

cheers!

[Jensen]

91. Thanks for that....

:yourock:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

99. So what part of my logic do you disagree with?

I'm trying to have a civil discussion, without the rah-rah's or boo's one would expect at a baseball game.

[Jensen]

122. First, the MSM & Bush has won by having this discussion!

If you look at the "Lady with the Scarf" she is not exactly small nor Ted Kennedy (and that is not just the wide camera angle, I've met him)add to this all the noise, confusion, it is possible that O did not take notice of Hill.
Now how did *Bush win...the media and US are not really talking about the awful predicament this country is in, like unemployment, loosing your house, how about the 3 nephews I have in the war? Just the small stuff...but thanks for the laugh anyway!

:rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

126. I'm not arguing the role of the media in public affairs

My point is pretty simple, actually, and easily understandable by people who can speak English and understand the very least bit of logic. Oh, and aren't blinded by partisanship so severely that their first instinct is to attack someone instead of listen to what they're saying.

[MonkeyFunk]

70. So what's your point?

That he didn't see her?

He was just on tv saying he did.

[grantcart]

109. monkeyfunk isn't attacking Obama

that is what the other 50,000 inane replies monkey has made in the last month are for

[MonkeyFunk]

123. Go find one post

wherein I attack Obama.

Just one.

[JackORoses]

76. how can you say he knew she was there? there are two people blocking Hillary from Obama's sight

You can even see the woman's shadow being cast over Hillary. Take a look.

[MonkeyFunk]

78. because he was just on TV saying so

and this whole brouhaha could've ended in 5 minutes if he just said "Oh sorry I didn't see her."

[JackORoses]

156. like the Hillarites could let anything end in 5 minutes, are you kidding?

You guys have gone on all day about something that didn't even happen based on your 'high-tech' analysis of 2 photographs.

[MonkeyFunk]

164. This isn't a Hillary/Obama argument I'm making

I'm trying to separate this from the partisan crap. But you seem to have no interest in that, so there's no sense in continuing.

[snooper2]

93. That's monkey logic....

:)

[Catherine Vincent]

98. Right!

Obama blew it!

[MonkeyFunk]

105. I wouldn't put it that way

but he missed a golden opportunity. Instead, it's all over the news and he's playing defense.

He had two possible choices - he chose the worse one.

[Hieronymus]

115. bs

[MonkeyFunk]

131. which part of my logic is bs?

where does it fail?

two options: a) Extend his hand or b) turn away.

He chooses a

What are the possible outcomes? Are any of them bad?

He chooses b

What are the possible outcomes? Well, we know the outcome. Is it better than any of the outcomes from option a?

[Quixote1818]

125. They had already said hello. How many times do you want them to say it

in one night? :eyes:

[MonkeyFunk]

128. did you read my post?

I didn't say he behaved rudely.

I said he missed a great opportunity that only had positive outcomes. Instead, he chose the option that has him playing defense today and has all the nets speculating about what he did.

Which was the wiser option?

[allinktup]

137. Hillary wasn't even looking at him.

Kennedy wanted to talk to her. Would you prefer he stand over them and get involved in what could have been a very awkward moment?

[MonkeyFunk]

138. I prefer nothing

I'm talking about what options he had at the time. He could've waited and extended his hand to her, or he could've turned away.

Which one would've had a better outcome?

[Jed Dilligan]

4. Finally

I was wondering where the shots from the other 80 gazillion cameras pointed at this moment had gotten off to.

[SeattleGirl]

5. Someone posted that scene from a different angle.

Obama was talking to someone, and it looks like Clinton spotted Ted Kennedy and deliberately went to shake his hand.

I don't think either one of them (Clinton and Obama) were ignoring each other.

[tridim]

41. Has Sen Clinton commented on it at all?

Seems like she could clear it up in about 2 seconds. Why wait?

[soleft]

6. This is the Zapruder footage we've been waiting for!

[jefferson_dem]

7. OBAMA VINDICATED, once and for all!

n/t

[AtomicKitten]

19. By anyone with a set of eyes and reason.

The rest of the partisan cheese will keep banging on this nonsense hoping we didn't notice Hillary standing and applauding when Junior mentioned the surge. Except we did notice.

[Metric System]

9. Which expanation? Axelrod's or Obama's?

[Seabiscuit]

Interesting set of photos - It shows a deliberate snub. End of story. nt

[Labors of Hercules]

57. Are you being sarcastic? Because I was watching last night and didn't see it...

And I don't see it here either.

[Seabiscuit]

59. Maybe you don't want to. Just look at the pictures. It's obvious from the sequence.

Another case of cognitive dissonance.

Obama wasn't turning to shake someone else's hand. He's still clapping. He just turned his back on Hillary as Teddy extended his hand to her.

[babylonsister]

90. You are bonkers. But I suspect you just like stirring it up, nay, I know you do. nt

[Seabiscuit]

177. I could care less about the stupid handshake thing. It doesn't affect my candidate.

But pretending there isn't an elephant in the living room when the whole world knows it's there is pathetic.

Kind of like the UN Ambassador to the Soviet Union denying the existence of Soviet missiles in Cuba even after Adlai Stevenson has shown the entire Council aerial photographs of those very missiles on Cuban soil.

[KittyWampus]

101. oops, you forgot the pix that shows he was turning to talk to Claire

[lapfog_1]

10. From this angle

it looks like OBama can't even SEE Hillary until the lady with her hands clasped tightly together moves out of the way so Ted can shake hands with Hillary. By that time Obama is turning to his left, probably to answer the question posed to him by Claire McCaskill who is out of frame.

Just as he said.

No snub.

If Hillary offered her hand to OBAMA and he turned away, that would be a snub, but this is much ado about nothing. Not that the Hillary supporters here will drop it.

Also, CLEARLY indicated is that Ted is offering HIS hand to Hillary. He is the one with his arm out and hand extended (frame 2). Then, in frame 3, Hillary reaches in to shake the outstretched hand of Ted.

[MonkeyFunk]

56. well

Obama could've settled the whole thing immediately by saying "Oh, I didn't see her. Sorry".

But he was JUST now on MSNBC saying that McCaskill had spoken to him as Hillary was reaching to shake hands with Kennedy. So he knew she was there.

[lapfog_1]

107. yeah, you can clearly see the woman with the scarf

leaning backward so that Ted could offer his hand to Hillary.

But in the same photo, Obama has already turned his head, as if talking to someone else, then, in the next photo, you see him turn his body. So he might have seen Ted reach out to shake her hand, but Claire McCaskill is already asking him a question. So... snub Claire by ignoring her question so that you can wait for Ted and Hillary to finish their interaction, or answer a question and engage with someone next to you.

I'm sure he saw Hillary, but not until the other lady moved out the way. Hillary is in the aisle, and looks to be lower (Ted has to lean down to shake her hand). By the time he sees her, Claire is asking him a question.

No snub.

A snub would be if Hillary walked up to Obama and offered her hand to him and he turned his back to her. That would be a snub. This is not.

[psychopomp]

149. It appears that he did not know she was coming as he had turned

before she had approached. Many Americans in both parties have become overheated during this campaign season, I hope cooler heads will prevail.

[hertopos]

12. Am I looking at same pic?

I can at least say that Obama is avoiding any contact from Hillary.
If I were in Hillary's position, I will see Obama that way.

Before I was not quite sure. Now, I am more likely to believe that he was avoiding Hillary.

Just my opinion, everyone see it differently, I guess.

Hertopos

[Dawgs]

18. No, you're not looking at the same pictures.

Obama clearly doesn't see her reach for Kennedy.

[GoldieAZ49]

32. The majority of the democratic party is avoiding Hillary

not to mention more than half the country :toast:

[LostinVA]

33. Yup

I wasn't sure until I saw these photos, but I agree with you. I would prefer to see video, to be 100% sure.

[KittyWampus]

103. make sure you see this pix.

[Dawgs]

13. Thank you.

Anyone that reported on this with only the one picture should be fired.

[tyne]

21. I guess

according to some...he should have snubbed Claire when she asked him a question. *shrug*

[lapfog_1]

104. Nah, the Truth doesn't matter

it sold some newspapers. That's what matters to the press.

Must be controversy and conflict, even when there isn't one.

Like the press doing the "Bill Clinton calls OBama campaign a 'Fairy Tale'" story, which, when one views the video, is a complete distortion. Bill only said that Obama's opposition to the Iraq War was a "Fairy Tale"... which was a distortion of its own, just not the one the press reported.

[gateley]

17. No snub. He was already turning to respond to whats-her-name before

Hillary got close. From this perspective, it appears that he didn't even know she was coming toward Kennedy --he'd already turned before it looks like Hillary and Kennedy made eye contact.

Totally objective view - If the situation were reversed, that would still be my interpretation.

Not that anyone cares, but I feel compelled to call out something I feel is being unfairly portrayed.

[flpoljunkie]

20. "I waved at her as I was coming into the Senate chamber before we walked over." Obama

“I waved at her as I was coming into the Senate chamber before we walked over,” he said. “I think there is a lot of tea-leaf reading going on here.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8178.html

[lurky]

22. Looks pretty innocent to me,

especially given the other picture that shows the person he is speaking with.

Seems to be manufactured by a tabloid media that would rather gossip about personal feuds than discuss actual issues. From there, I think team Clinton ran with it to generate sympathy for HRC. Let's face it, she gets a big bump whenever it looks like men are being mean to her (See NH). I will hand it to them, they have managed to turn the conversation away from South Carolina and the Kennedy endorsement.

[tyne]

26. These pictures also

blow the "icily staring" bullshiite out of the water too, eh?

[lurky]

79. Yeah.

I have to wonder about the photographer who was able to read their interactions so accurately from 50 yards away. It's one thing to laugh and speculate about how much they "hate each other". It's another to write an actual AP story about it, with quotes from some guy who was across the room interpreting their body language. What kind of reporting is that? It's the modern Washington press corps at its most content-free.

[Barack_America]

23. Looks like he's clearly turning away before Hillary...

...ever extended her hand to Kennedy.

It looks like the now famous "woman with scarf" would have blocked his view of Hillary until photo 3, in which Obama is already completely turned.

That says it all, IMO.

Thanks very much for posting these.

[MonkeyFunk]

85. Then he could've ended this last night

by saying "oh sorry, I didn't see her."

[Barack_America]

118. I doubt he even knew that anyone was talking about this last night...

He was too busy networking with undeclared Dems and issuing his response to the SOTU.

He wasn't watching CNN or MSNBC.

[MonkeyFunk]

129. then this morning

whenever.

If the answer was "I didn't see her" it would've gone away. Except that thre are pictures of him looking directly at her while she's working her way in his direction. But it might've worked.

[lynch03]

24. haha obama turned away before hillary was even close to approaching him

So much for this proving Obama's lack of respect

[RiverStone]

25. Thanks --- hopefully we can move on to the 1000's of things more relevant

Oh, and the pics do seem to reveal that.....

It's nothing to lose any sleep over.

Geeez, talk about living under a microscope.

Best wishes Obama!

[zulchzulu]

27. Back...and to the left...back...and...to...the left...

FERCHRISSAKES!!!!

Are we finally done this pithy bullshit from the wackazoids from Hillaryworld yet?

:shrug:

[gateley]

34. Just like witnesses to an accident - everybody sees something different. nt

[joshcryer]

30. Obvious snub, she shakes the hands of the other two senators after that.

Meaning that Obama removed himself from the situation to have his hand shook.

[Dawgs]

40. So, from these pictures you can read Obama's mind?

:crazy:

[joshcryer]

47. The earlier pictures showed that Obama had eye contact with her and she was heading his way.

He removed himself from the situation with perfect timing to spare. Thus allowing Obots to delude themselves further.

[JackORoses]

148. bullshit, there is no way you can determine where he was looking from the angle of that photo

or are you a forensic photography specialist?

[MonkeyFunk]

169. You really think he didn't see her here?

[tridim]

51. Just like Bill Frist!

Except most of this mind reading since last night was based on only a single still image, not the series of four overhead shots we have now. Yet some still cast doubts. It's nuts.

[joshcryer]

58. You don't understand, Obama's "official" account is that he was "giving them room."

It wasn't like he was distracted, he purposely, and admittedly, looked away, and disassociated himself from an opportunity to, well, unite. :)

[polichick]

31. Just as an aside...

Hillary looks great in that red jacket surrounded by so many black suits.

[FrenchieCat]

45. That was my thought!

Now if Obama would have worn that suit, he'd be a goner! :rofl:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

48. He sees her approach and twists to avoid her. These photos prove the bitter snub.

[joshcryer]

63. Start a thread with "6 photos," it should be amusing. ;)

Don't forget to include the very obvious photo where Obama has clear indication that Hillary is heading their way. Oh and if you want to even be more controversial, make sure to point out that Obama's "official" stance is that he was "giving them room."

[butterfly77]

49. He saw her coming in his direction....

and that is why he turned away...

[Marie26]

52. Hee, obvious snub.

Obama is on a higher level, he can see Hillary speaking to the Senator in the lower row. He must know that she's there. And then to cap things off, Kennedy reaches out to shake her hand - Obama turns away at this point to avoid having to speak to that horrible woman. He averts his eyes & turns his back to continue clapping & stare into space. Only THEN did McCaskill try to speak to him. This is exactly what CNN reported.

[Virginia Dare]

53. Inconclusive..

I MUST see whether McCaskill was actually asking him a question or not...:eyes:

(FOR FUCK SAKES IT WAS NOT A SNUB AND EVEN IF IT WAS WHO GIVES A SHIT!!)

[ErnestoG]

54. The Hillarzombies want to see a snub, let them see it.

These days they are desparate for some sort of feeling of superiority, who are we to take that from them.

[Lucinda]

60. However:

"...When Clinton straightened up, Kennedy quickly reached across Barack Obama to shake Clinton’s hand. She took it. As they spoke, Obama turned away. Then the senators seated to Obama’s right – Ben Nelson and Ken Salazar — both shook Senator Clinton’s hand and talked to her. Instead of doing the same, Obama turned to look at the back of the room. Sen. Claire McCaskill, who has also endorsed Obama and was seated next to Kennedy, reached across the Massachusetts senator — who was still talking to Clinton — and tapped Obama (still twisted toward the back of the room) on the shoulder. McCaskill engaged Obama in conversation until the moment passed..."

editing to fix link

[joshcryer]

66. These photos show that he turned before she even began the handshake.

Thus basically invalidating the "official" statement from the Obama camp.

[ErnestoG]

69. Yep, the photos don't lie.

[joshcryer]

86. I consider the immediacy at which he turned quite, well, obvious to anyone.

[ErnestoG]

157. Outside of those not entranced with Hillary, yes.

[lapfog_1]

114. That's a reporter's interpretation of what happened.

maybe NOT what actually happened.

This sequence of 4 photos does not lend itself to that interpretation.

But I guess you will see what you want to see.

[Barack_America]

67. Obama did NOT refuse Hillary's outstretched hand.

That is what these pictures prove.

He is already turned away before her hand is ever offered to Kennedy, let alone himself.

[tyne]

83. Let's not forget what started this lie....

"That made what happened next even more striking. Obama returned to stand by his seat next to Sen. Edward Kennedy who endorsed Obama today in a widely watched event that reverberated across the political world.

As Clinton approached, Kennedy made sure to make eye contact and indicated he wanted to shake her hand. Clinton leaned towards Kennedy over a row of seats and Kennedy leaned in towards her. They shook hands.

Obama stood icily staring at Clinton during this, then turned his back and stepped a few feet away. Kennedy may've wanted to make peace with Clinton but Obama clearly wanted no part of that."

The guy should definitely lose his job. "Obama stood icily staring at Clinton during this" LOL

[Barack_America]

113. I would agree with that.

I don't know how you can "icily" stare at someone when you're looking in the opposite direction. LOL.

Just another jackass trying to make a name for himself, using the Dem primary drama as his vehicle.

[Dawgs]

74. According to the Hillbots, Obama has eyes in the back of his head.

Talk about saying anything to tear down an opponent.

[Bluebear]

75. He saw her coming, he couldn't miss it, she looks like a matador's cape.

Then he changed directions.

[Avalux]

84. She wasn't headed towards him; she wanted Kennedy.

There is no eye contact between Hillary and Obama; it would have been inappropriate for Obama to step in between just because *maybe* the camera was on him. :eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

94. "Kick em when they're UP. Kick em when they're DOWN." Give us *dirty laundry*?

:thumbsdown:

[ShortnFiery]

87. At another level HRC had DIRECT EYE CONTACT with Teddy. You can't read non-verbals with confidence.

Why? You can't get *inside* another person's mind. :thumbsdown:

[Bluebear]

100. Yes, whatever, don't run out of thumbs down signs.

Just commenting on what it looks like, sorry.

[ShortnFiery]

124. Right and all this "conjecture" is touted as "fact."

:thumbsdown: <yes, still working> ;)

[Catherine Vincent]

92. oooh, those are good!

Saving! :kick: :evilgrin:

[Alexander]

112. Surprise, surprise. Obama did nothing wrong and Shillbots lie about it.

In other news, ice is frozen water.

[Catherine Vincent]

116. Obots will not admit that Obama snubbed Hillary. It's no big deal. It happened, just admit it.

Btw, Monkeyfunk, you did a good job explaining to these hopeful supporters what could have been the opportunity for Obama and he blew it. Even though they don't want to hear it, you did a good job. Thanks.

[oasis]

120. The Obama camp has offered up two different explanations so far.

Let's see what's in the works for tommorrow.:eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

127. This dog won't hunt! But continue - it's mildly amusing - your shameless desperation.

:eyes:

[oasis]

132. Maybe Barack should hire Maxwell Smart to supply him with explanations for each blunder.(eom)

[complain jane]

130. Why do I think that

if Obama had greeted Hillary, some would complain about that.

If Hillary had greeted Obama, some would complain about that.

If Hillary had snubbed Obama, some would complain about that.

If Hillary and Obama greeted each other, some would complain about that.

:eyes:

[MonkeyFunk]

140. there's no question

that people would've bitched about any eventuality.

But both candidates and the party would've benefitted if they shook hands and smiled.

[goldcanyonaz]

147. She looks amazing in red. Great color choice.

[rodeodance]

152. Emerald green looks nice on her also

[my3boyz]

155. I don't care for Hillary BUT

I will say she looked nice in red last night. I agree that it is a GREAT color to pick. She really stood out among the others. It was nice to see a splash of red after all of the dark suits....

[MonkeyFunk]

170. There's a pic of her in a blue outfit

that makes her eyes look amazing.

She's a pretty woman with great tones - she can wear a lot of colors.

[zulchzulu]

158. Animation

Damning evidence of Hillary shaking Ted's hand...

[City Lights]

161. Great pictures!

No snub.

Thanks for posting these. :-)

[pathansen]

165. You obviously didn't see the other pictures

Scroll down and take a good look at #17:
A very "uppity" look if you ask me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4264846

[Danger Mouse]

179. 'uppity,' huh? put down the hood and sheet.

that kind of shit isn't welcome here.

[Greyskye]

181. "uppity"?!?!

[WinkyDink]

167. He can clearly see her, in the first photo, leaning in. It isn't THAT FAR-FETCHED to

believe he then subtly but DELIBERATELY turned away from her direction. People DO have peripheral vision. Indeed, he surely saw TEDDY reach down to HRC, IN FRONT OF him.

Put another way: Obama clearly chose NOT to wait for the two of them to make eye contact, let alone reach out to Hillary, following Kennedy's lead.

It was a snub. Maybe it's no big deal. But it was a snub.

[Alizaryn]

180. I really can't believe that this is still an issue.

[krkaufman]

182. Looks like Obama's view of Hillary was blocked by the gal between them...

... and he turned-away before Teddy reached-out to Hillary.

[andrys1]

183. Three other pictures

The first one is from an earlier edition of L.A. Times and shows Edward Kennedy offering his hand as Clinton comes up to them but Obama has turned away, still clapping, and McCaskill is not particularly paying attention to Obama! but is looking at Hillary and is also clapping.

In the 2nd one, he is turned away and looking down as Clinton returns the handshake.

In the 3rd one, he seems to, himself, be saying something to McCaskill now, while she appears to be trying to hear him while still clapping (rather than trying to get his attention).

[Steely_Dan]

184. Listen To THis Crap...

You all sound like a bunch of bickering children. This is what we need right now...All of you grow up.

Gee, it would have been nice to have an adult run this country fro a while.

-P