Marcia Pappas is an embarrassment to the woman's movement.

[EFerrari]

She's on MSNBC right now and is being a cartoon in the round.

Good grief. She's asserting that only a woman could wake up every day and think about women's rights. Also, that TK had to have his arm twisted to move on women's rights. :crazy:

It would have been so much more powerful to send out a reasoned statement. I can't even believe NOW has fallen this far.

NOW needs to get rid of this person or send her back for re-grooving.

[Barack_America]

1. I'm not watching this and I don't know her history...

But that statement was an embarrassment, that's for sure.

[EFerrari]

3. I don't know her either. But her statement was so retrograde

as to be unbelievable except that I heard it. :shrug:

Maybe some of us who thought the women's movement didn't need us need to go back and work some. That was just plain counter productive. Let's piss off and put down the most active real liberal in the Senate! That will work! :(

[DainBramaged]

2. How could an "undeclared" gender know about what a woman thinks?

[EFerrari]

5. Is that your attempt to discuss this?

Thank you for the substance!

[DainBramaged]

I have no intention of discussing this with a person of no gender.

[EFerrari]

8. Then you might want to take note that your actions are subverting

your intentions. :)

[DainBramaged]

11. Excuse me?

[EFerrari]

14. I don't think so.

Instead of addressing the topic, you are going off into lala land. I think I'll let you go there on your own.

[DainBramaged]

17. When you decide what gender you are and why you think you are qualified to discuss her position

don't let me know.

[EFerrari]

20. My privacy is my right. And for some strange reason

I hold the position that I can think about whatever I want to.

That's how we got to feminism in the first place. :hi:

[aquart]

9. So your treatment and attitude toward people is gender-based?

Well, isn't that special. And ever so familiar.

[AGirl]

25. The idea is that only someone who has lived as a female will know the female experience of

patriarchy in this society. I guess. There are merits to this argument, although some feminists can be transphobic about it and saying only women born women should have a say and I don’t agree with that.

But in general, I do agree that men should take a back seat in the feminist movement and women should be the leaders because our voices need to be the dominant one because only we have the experiences and perspective to talk about the kind of oppression and things we ‘ve go through.

[EFerrari]

29. Because men suffer nothing from patriarchy. Got it.

That's just as well reasoned as being unable to do a simple search but hostilely requiring a poster to show her female creds when said simple search wouldn't damage your elbow in the least.

Living as a responsible adult is at the very least as important as living as a "female". And hostility is not a winning strategy.

[AGirl]

31. That's true. I don't agree with unwarrented hostility.

And that’s why I also disagree with your hostility and distortion. Men do suffer from patriarchy as well, but not for the same reason and not to the same degree. Your bullshit distortion is not fooling me.

[EFerrari]

32. What distortion are you talking about?

I don't need to fool you, I don't even know you. Good grief.

Is *this* where the movement is? :wow:

[AGirl]

35. You said “men suffer nothing from patriarchy, got it!”

I never said that, you tried to distort what I said and put words into my mouth and now you are playing stupid. Got it!

[EFerrari]

36. Nope. I told you what I took away from your statement. n/t

[AGirl]

6. I agree.

[EFerrari]

10. So, you are arguing that only women know how women think?

What a fantastically progressive position.

lol

[AGirl]

12. Yup. I also believe in women only spaces.

[EFerrari]

16. How radical. Not.

Please go vent your spleen in some space that feels safe and empowering to you. I'm trying to have a conversation here. :hi:

[AGirl]

19. You don't have to reply to me if you don't want to. :)

[EFerrari]

21. Exactly!

[joshcryer]

15. I would think a feminist woman would have the best intentions of women at heart.

I would challenge anyone to debate whether or not Hillary Clinton is not a feminist.

[EFerrari]

18. Sure. The problem is there are many feminists that happen to be male.

So, Pappas's position sort of puts the proposition that as women we can effect societal change on its head.

The OP addressed Pappas, not Clinton.

[joshcryer]

33. Given Obama's "moderate judges" position, his "morality" position I don't consider him "feminist."

Pappas's position is as clear as day, she considers Clinton the most proven candidate for the job of representing womens issues. This is likely represented by the vast majority of women voters who have gone out and who will continue to go out and vote for Hillary Clinton.

[EFerrari]

34. This thread is not about candiates, fyi. It's about how it can be possible

for a feminist to assert that only women can move on women's issues.

Sorry, that's as retrograde as possible and is an insult to the underpinning of the movement itself.

Pappas has done us no favor. She could have with a clear statement in support of Clinton. Instead, she chose to go nuts.

[joshcryer]

38. Actually, it is about the candidate and the context.

I don't think she is referring to men in a general sense.

[EFerrari]

39. When she says that only a woman could wake up every morning

with women's rights in mind, that isn't an endorsement of a candidate. That's an ideological statement.

[BeyondGeography]

4. A thoroughly depressing human being

[EFerrari]

22. One thing I noticed in grad school was that as soon as we reached

feminism, the very next minute some popular culture genius declared that we'd reached "post-feminism". Just like that! My friends in the Women's Studies Department and I had a painful laugh over that one.

Has NOW been going *here* for the last ten years? I admit that I haven't been paying attention as my work has taken me to other issues.

[aquart]

7. Anyone for Hillary or against Obama is just trash!

Anybody can see that.

[madfloridian]

13. You must not have read her words.

.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

23. i don't think that matters

If she is for Hillary she is good/right, if she is also against Obama or some of his supporters thats twice as good(least thats the impression I've gotten from earlier posts )

Personal view: NOW needs to get rid of Marcia Pronto, or atleast the national NOW needs to distance themselves from her statements(i am assuming there is a national aspect and not just branches)

[EFerrari]

26. Neither. I'm one of those annoying people that care about principles.

But / and, I care about NOW. And have no idea how this person managed to become a media contact for NOW.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

27. was not replying to you i think, and i do agree with your stance :)

was more giving my view of poster 7's statement from my impression of earlier posts

[EFerrari]

43. I've been out of touch with NOW for about 15 years, working a different street.

I was hoping someone could explain to me what Pappas put out more than anything.

Well, nobody's perfect.

[asdjrocky]

24. Agreed.

It's like having Al Bundy represent the view of all men in America. I've always supported NOW, after all, I have daughters, but I would not want them to emulate this person. Sad, sick, stupid world.

[EFerrari]

37. Both of my sons are throwbacks, I guess, because they call themselves

feminists.

My nieces are much younger. From this kind of leadership, they're not needing.

Hopefully, this is just primary frenzy and not representative of the overall NOW position.

[asdjrocky]

42. I would hope.

And here's the truth, I'm in my 40's and I'm still not sure I know what feminism is. I want everyone paid the same, I want everyone treated the same, I'd love to have a woman President, or a male President, as long as the represent my views.

All I know is, most of the chatter in this primary season has been way over the top. It's beyond anything I remember seeing before. And I'm sick of it.

[EFerrari]

49. There are lots of theories of feminism.

I tend to think of it as the study of where patriarchy and its consequences push a culture, whether you are looking at the life of an individual or at the life of a society.

People tell me the primary wars were every bit as rough last time. I managed to miss them. :)

[islandmkl]

28. Hey, you never know

...my cat thinks my dog is his mother, and seems to know (at all times) just what the dog is thinking. On the other hand, the dog doesn't seem to have a clue as to anything the cat might do, or is doing, at any point in time. They are both males, and both neutered, so the whole sex question finds no answers with them. But I do know one thing about both of them...they are glad I'm on their side, especially at mealtime.

[EFerrari]

30. LOL! At least you have that whole solidarity thing going!

:)

[Abacus]

40. As a male,

I found her statement to be degrading and insulting to women.

[EFerrari]

41. Welcome to DU.

I was just flabbergasted. Can't remember when NOW issued such a counter productive statement. :shrug:

[tishaLA]

44. I sent NOW an email yesterday...

the national NOW, not NY NOW, and I told them that I would not be renewing my membership after that "gang bang" message yesterday and the lies about Sen Kennedy.

[EFerrari]

46. I hope national NOW takes the hint. n/t

[rucky]

45. National NOW needs to muzzle her....

like, NOW!

[EFerrari]

47. Love your candidate!

[rucky]

48. He's the ONLY candidate...

who knows how to pronounce "champagne" correctly.