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Why Some Feminists Aren’t Supporting Hillary Clinton

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:49 PM
Original message
Why Some Feminists Aren’t Supporting Hillary Clinton
http://alternet.org/blogs/peek/74984/#more

Why Some Feminists Aren’t Supporting Hillary Clinton

Posted by Biodun , Firedoglake at 2:09 PM on January 25, 2008.

She remains highly suspect to her cohort: middle- and upper-middle-class educated and professional white women over 40 years old.

Quite a few feminist activists are not supporting Hillary Clinton in her bid for the presidency. And that may seem odd, given that she's the first viable woman candidate to run for the White House. She remains highly suspect to her cohort: middle- and upper-middle-class educated and professional white women over 40 years old.

Rebecca Traister gives her own reason why she's not supporting her:

Unlike its sister gem, "I'm not a feminist, but ..." (an utterance that nearly always gives away the fact that its speaker is in fact a feminist), the Hillary disavowal, in my case, has been true: I really am not a Hillary Clinton supporter. A feminist by trade, I have wished that I could get behind Clinton, a woman I admired when she first arrived in the White House 15 years ago. But there has been nothing in her steady, ineluctable move to the center that I could embrace; I understood why she did it, but it cost her my support.


And Frances Kissling states her own reason:

The sad fact is that Clinton has felt compelled to run as a stereotypical male. In her own mind it is only a certain kind of man who is qualified to be president and she will be that man: tough on everything from war, flag burning, kids' access to video games, illegal immigrants and Palestinians. She has missed the opportunity to talk about what it really means for women to be equal in this country. She has shown no interest in using her extensive international experience to push for more women in party leadership, state legislatures and even the Senate. A woman candidate who considered her gender a strength (as opposed to something she needed to overcome) would announce a series of measures specifically designed to ensure that women's needs and rights were at the forefront of her agenda.


In 30 Ways of Looking at Hillary, a recently published anthology in which thirty well-known women writers reflect on the candidate, Susan Morrison (who edited the book) says:

As I talked with women about their reactions to Hillary, some themes came up again and again. Many women were divided within themselves as to how they feel about her, and I noticed a familiar circle of guilt: these women believe they should support Hillary as a matter of solidarity. But, because they expect her to be different from (that is, better than) the average male politician, she invariably disappoints them; then they feel guilty about their ambivalence. Some feel competitive with her. Having wearily resigned themselves to the idea that "having it all" is too much to hope for, they view Hillary as a rebuke: how did she manage to pull it off--or, at least, to appear to pull it off? Other women say they want to like her but are disturbed by the anti-feminist message inherent in the idea of the first woman president getting to the White House on her husband's coattails.


All these reasons more or less span the spectrum of feminist reaction to Hillary Clinton, but perhaps her decision to stay with her husband during the Monica Lewinsky scandal seems to be at the core of why she's highly suspect to feminists.

And she has also been accused, by metonymy, of throwing highly accomplished women she had been close to under the bus during her husband's first term in the White House: Lani Guinier; Marian Wright Edelman; Zoe Baird; and Kimba Wood, among others. In fact, during the campaign for that first term, a reporter's question to her more or less captured her reputation as a polarizing figure in contemporary American politics: "You know, some people think of you as an inspiring female attorney mother, and other people think of you as the overbearing yuppie wife from hell," the reporter said. "How would you describe yourself?"

This last question is quite apt and cogent: Over fifty books have attempted to scrutinize her (the most recent cited above), but she remains unknowable and inscrutable, forever elusive even to those who are supposed to be close to her. "I'm a Rorschach test," Clinton herself once told a reporter, meaning the way people project into her their own preconceptions and obsessions, and how they see whatever they want to see in her. The most interesting point for me about Hillary Rodham Clinton is that in spite of all these books about her, she has managed to retain control over her own narrative, has managed to elude all the frames and grids people have constructed for her.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. So what?
There are quite a few African American leaders who don't support Obama.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. True.
But the Obamites want all the crap thrown at Hillary that they can find.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. and vice versa n/t
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Women have never voted as a bloc. Why should they now? Feminism is about choice. nt
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Essentially, some feminists don't support HC because
she is running as a candidate and not as a woman. I don't support Hillary, but not for any of the reasons articulated in this piece. But I guess that doesn't matter since I'm a man.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Thanks for boiling it down to the bizarre point. I don't need gender as an issue
But when sexists attack Hillary - and make it anyway, I do respond. I am happy she isn't running on "it" though.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Not running on 'it'???!!!
She mentions the 'glass ceiling' or 'first woman President' in every debate. She openly welcomes the "Women for Hillary" signs in the background when she makes a stage appearance anywhere.


She has every right to run her candidacy as she sees fit, but you'd have to be blind, deaf, and stupid to not realize that she's playing the gender card.

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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. This feminist does not support her.
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 06:55 PM by zanne
Hillary Rodham Clinton in no feminist.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. This feminist doesn't support her either.
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 07:13 PM by ShortnFiery
Agreed, IMNSHO, Hillary Rodham Clinton is an Anti-Feminist. :thumbsdown:

That is, everything good about being a woman is cast aside in her mannerisms and behaviors. Further, HRC has no shame in allowing her husband to run rough shod over the M$M and, in essence, do her dirty work FOR her.

This feminist who has held many non-traditional work positions (Military Officer, Govt Pol Researcher, Addiction Counselor for an Infantry Bn., etc.) is ashamed that HRC is the first viable woman candidate for The Presidency of The United States. HRC's past and present behavior is NOT what I want my young daughter to view as "a model." :(
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Bill Clinton's Wife
Hillary is running as Bill Clinton's wife ... as has become obvious in the last couple of weeks in particular ... he is her protector, defender, mentor.

She isn't running as her own, individual self.

"Hillary Rodham Clinton is no feminist."
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm a male feminist
And, well, I don't support her.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. This feminist is creeped out by the prayerful abortions Obama talks about
As for those in the article - everyone decides on their vote individually, based on their own experience and aspirations. theirs are not mine.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. There are certainly reasons to support someone else, but these make no sense to me.
To the first one, she's no more "center" than her opponents.

To the second one, she has a very good record on women's issues and has NOW's endorsement. (But I don't think it's reasonable to require her to base her campaign on women's issues, any more than Obama should base his on empowering minorities.)
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/women/

To the third one, I just hope most women aren't that hung up. Competitive? Jealous? Odd.

Again, I think women and men alike have their own reasons for their decisions. But these seem like excuses, when the simple truth may be they prefer a different candidate. (Which is fine.)
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. You can find the exceptions, but statistically, women over 40 are strong
supporters.

They are why she carried New Hampshire, and they provided a backbone of support in Nevada.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. And they may surprise pollsters in the near future too
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for posting...
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Catbird Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. Feminism has little to do with it. Issues do.
She had an excellent chance for much-needed reform in health care. She blew it.

She has provided too much support for Bush in the Iran war.

She is not strong on global warming issues.

She has said little about the infamous voting machines, which we should quit using as soon as possible.

She is not in Washington to participate in votes on retroactive telecom immunity.

The point of this post is not to argue any of these issues but to show how a set of issues important to me have more influence than "feminist" issues.



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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. The America I want to live in is one that is equal.. that has equal
opportunity no matter what color, sex, or whatever you want to be. The America I want to see allows people like myself to become what I want without the stuggle already written. It doesn't seem that Hillary is for America so much as she is for herself... Maybe I'm wrong...... but from her policy and actions and corporate money, it seems that it is ego that is driving this woman, and not compassion and conviction that most of us want to beleive she has.
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's the war, stupid. And she votes for war every time. She's a hawk
trying to impersonate a dove.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That's the problem I have with her. Not some asinine judgement about her personal life.
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Amen. n/t.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm a feminist and it doesn't bother me that Hillary Clinton stayed with her husband.
In fact, I think it is highly sexist and un-feminist to judge a politician of any sex by a decision as personal as whether or not to stay in her/his marriage.

People go around calling themselves feminists and progressives and then apply the sad old double standard of judging a woman by her husband. Pathetic. I'm sorry but that's what it is.

By the way, I also fit into that demographic that this highly one-sided opinion piece cites (white, professional, over-forty woman) and I disagree that that cohort is so suspicious of Hillary Clinton.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. The only serious woman candidate for president we've ever had.
And she doesn't meet your standards.

I can't tell you how that impresses me. Let me know when you find the woman who does.
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protect our future Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. But is she the best choice for our country? That is the most important consideration,
isn't it?
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protect our future Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. As a female, I have been thrown under the bus on a few occations by other females.
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 07:27 PM by protect our future
Never by a male. And it has crossed my mind that Hillary just might be a "thrower."

I'm one of those females spoken of in the piece posted by babylonsister: educated, middle class, white, over forty.

The reasons I do not support Hillary are very simple. There is nothing complicated, nothing to probe, nothing hidden under the surface.

I don't care for corruption and lies. I cannot support someone who I cannot trust. That's about it.

And I feel there is another candidate who stands a better chance of leading our country back from the brink of disaster.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. Now WHERE Have I Heard This Before ???
"Other women say they want to like her but are disturbed by the anti-feminist message inherent in the idea of the first woman president getting to the White House on her husband's coattails."

Oh yeah... That would have been from me, LOL!

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2726006

:hi::evilgrin::hi:
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. I have to admit that I find this incredibly sad.
It seems so obvious to me: It is not a coincidence that the first viable woman presidential candidate projects an image of centrism and moderation. Just as it is not a coincidence that the first viable African-American presidential candidate projects an image of centrism and moderation. The sad reality is that neither candidate can afford to stray too far from the mainstream, lest they be dismissed as stereotypes.

Hillary Clinton's greatest obstacle to becoming president is NOT the fact that some people see her as moderate. It is the fact that a lot more people (wrongly) see her as a bra-burning, man-hating, pantsuit-wearing "feminazi" who has contempt for women who stay home to "bake cookies and have teas." That is the perception that could sink her candidacy if she makes it to the general election, and she knows it.

The truth is that Hillary Clinton could very well be the woman who smashes through that glass ceiling and gets a major-party presidential nomination. And she may well have to do it without the help of feminists. But women -- and feminists -- will benefit if Hillary Clinton does get the nomination. Some day
a woman WILL be able to run for president as a liberal and a feminist. And she will be free to do so because Hillary Clinton came before her and already made the unfair and unpleasant compromises that she shouldn't have had to make, but did.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Thank you for that, Skinner.
The most important point you made, IMHO is this:

"But women -- and feminists -- will benefit if Hillary Clinton does get the nomination. Some day
a woman WILL be able to run for president as a liberal and a feminist. And she will be free to do so because Hillary Clinton came before her and already made the unfair and unpleasant compromises that she shouldn't have had to make, but did."

You're dead-on 100% right. I'd make your whole last paragraph my signature if I could.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. It's That "Someday", And The "Unpleasant Compromises " That I Worry About...
Someday we will get universal health-care...

Someday we will get our troops out of Iraq...

Someday we will get Living Wage laws...

Someday gays will have full rights and the ability to marry...

Someday we will get publicly financed elections...

Someday we will get to hold corrupt politicians accountable for their actions...

Someday we will get to prosecute the crimes of said politicians...

Someday...

But until that day, there will be unpleasant compromises.

Great...

:banghead:




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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Oh, this is truly sad. "Neither candidate can afford to stray too far from the mainstream.."
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 11:03 PM by antigop
Sorry, this is ridiculous.

Supporting outsourcing and h1-b visa replacements is "mainstream"?

Good grief!

And that is one of the main reasons why NONE of the women I have spoken to will support her. They want to keep their jobs and have had enough stress with the continued outsourcing and replacements.

They won't vote for Hillary.


<edit to add> And no, they are not Republicans.

<edit to add> Has it dawned on anyone that maybe femininists don't support Hillary because they really don't think she is the best candidate?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. whow. nicely stated. Thank you.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. Hilary should run an ad informing the public and her numbers
will go up especially in red states.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. And in her first term as senator she
threw our Soldiers and the Iraqis under a bus for political expediency to be the overbearing candidate from hell.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'm a guy that used to like her...I LIKED the "baking cookies" retort.
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 10:19 PM by arewenotdemo
That all changed when I saw her on Letterman a few years ago. He asked her a couple questions about the war and her answers were so fucking glib that I wanted to puke. It was as if people weren't actually dying over there.

Then she defended the war/occupation with her "we've been in Korea for 50 years" bullshit, and started to threaten Iran. If she wins (and I highly doubt she can ever win the GE), I have absolutely no faith that she'll actually pull us out of Iraq, or defy her AIPAC/AEI masters and not attack Iran.

We could use a real woman in the White House, but we sure as hell don't need an American version of Margaret fucking Thatcher.
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