Dean is now out of favor with quite a few Clinton supporters, it seems

[cali]

So how many Clinton supporters agree that Dean is doing a lousy job, because I'm seeing quite a bit of it.

Dean has been a hard working Chairman with a real plan that's paying off.

I'm sorry to see so much hate for him here.

edited to take out quote. (which was accurate)

[geek tragedy]

1. This election is the Dean wing vs, the Clinton wing.

Winner take all.

[RubyDuby in GA]

3. Just like last time

The DLC was behind his demise, but I guess he didn't get the memo and refused to go away quietly.

[pampango]

7. Or is it the Democratic party vs the Clintons. Which is more important to them

winning the election for themselves or building the party?

If they didn't like what Dean and the party was doing to Michigan and Florida, they should have fought the good fight at the time, not four days before the primary.

[Maven]

2. Who said that?

Are you trying to ascribe a fictional statement to certain people?

[Deep13]

4. Virginia, Montana, Ohio, Rhode Island, Missouri, Pennsylvania.

Those are the states we picked-up in the U.S. Senate in 2006. I guess I am not inclined to complain about Howard Dean.

[MyNameGoesHere]

5. Oh no

i saw it too.. Then i woke up and realized i was just baiting. Thank god.

[rinsd]

6. One DUer = clinton supporters and apparently so much hate for Dean

:eyes:

[cali]

8. quite a few Clinton supporters

I wish I was allowed to name them.

[rinsd]

16. Because calling them out in a general fashion smearing all Clinton supporters is ok?

Would it be cool if I posted about Obama supporters seeming love affair with arch conservatives media types like Peggy Noonan?

[rodeodance]

35. I think that was exactly the intent of IP

[BootinUp]

19. lol nt

[mondo joe]

9. Not me. I love Dean. I have some questions about what he's doing based on reports

about some goings on within the DC related to GLBT persons. But that has nothing to do with this primary or Hillary Clinton.

[madfloridian]

14. Oh, I have been keeping track of that. It is very ugly stuff.

Would you like to know who their latest target is? Leah Daughtry, one of the long time Democrats, an African American who is a staunch Christian and the head the convention committee.

Howard Dean to his credit has kept the DNC folks from playing this ugly situation out in the media. Here is what he wrote:

Dean responded to the comments in a written statement sent Wednesday to the Blade.


“Anyone who truly knows Leah and her values appreciates her deep commitment to fighting for fairness and equality for everyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or gender identity, and any insinuation otherwise is irresponsible and despicable,” he said.

“The DNC has consistently refrained from commenting on ongoing litigation out of respect for the legal process and to protect the interests of everyone involved. It is disappointing that the plaintiffs are using dishonest smear tactics in order to try their case outside the courtroom.”

The gay community has been making public some private emails, and they have been publicly attacking people in the DNC. Dean is right. Shut up and keep it private.

[mondo joe]

21. I was reading more about it last night on Queerty. I couldn't help but think

it mirrored some of what I've perceived on DU to be a race/orientation divide about some primary issues.

[madfloridian]

22. I suspect it is more.

It is a lawsuit that has taken huge amounts of time and money from the DNC. The DNC has been classy as the gay media played out every thing anyone of the DNC ever said and did.

It is out of control ugliness. Now I find myself asking....who benefits from that? Not the Democratic party. Not the gay community....because many many people are getting very angry at their tactics. Who benefits? The Republicans. Just some food for thought.

[mondo joe]

25. I don't know enough to say much because I haven't followed it closely.

I do think there is a feeling among a number of gay people that we're being used for our votes and our money, but are being two timed (if you will) by the Dem willingness to overlook some religious anti-gay bigotry.

So I wouldn't be surprised if a few gay people at least didn't just decide to break the thing open.

[madfloridian]

26. Well, if you read the article...

they are accusing someone like Leah Daughtry of pretty bad stuff.

Tolerance must work both ways or it does not work at all. Most people want to be fair and open-minded. They really do. I do. It was hard for me here at DU coming from my Southern Baptist background. I was raised in that fundamentalist culture, and I think I deserve credit of pulling myself out of it when I saw how some misused the name of Jesus.

But it does work both ways. A lawsuit that started two years ago and is tying up the DNC leaders right during the primary is harmful.

I said something like that before here, and I was viciously accused of being a bigot. It was nasty. When I questioned being called that, it was my post that was deleted....the attacks remained.

It works both ways.

[mondo joe]

30. Sure. But....

while anti-religion bigotry is not acceptable, being a bigot shouldn't be acceptable.

So if someone is pulling anti-gay shit at DNC because of their religion, that ought not to be tolerated.

[madfloridian]

42. See, you just assumed it.

That is being judgemental without knowing the facts.

You just assumed Leah was being that way, even though Governor Dean defended her.

I have never been a bigot in my life, yet I have been accused of being one for saying that this lawsuit being played out in the open with private mails being posted is wrong.

[mondo joe]

43. Um, no. That's why I said "if". Not "was".

[lurky]

10. OK, how did this Florida and Michigan thing happen?

In other words, who sets the dates for their primaries? The state parties? The state legislatures? I'm just trying to get a sense of what people were thinking.

[madfloridian]

23. eeeek....

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[lurky]

28. Gack!!

:wow:

Thanks madfloridian. That's a lot of information!

So, qui bono? Why would these guys want to play chicken with their own electorate? Is it just a pissing contest?

[madfloridian]

29. Power.

That one word says it all. Nelson and his congressional buds were allowed too much control by they party chairwoman, and the Florida legislature and the party leaders played along for well over a year to get it done.

Power.

[truebrit71]

11. Well he' so much worse than McAulliffe....who does he work for now...I can't seem to recall...

...oh wait, isn't hit HRC?

Funny old world, eh?

[PDittie]

12. If she is the nominee

then Howard will be shit-canned.

Personally (and I'm no Hillary supporter, obviously) I think Howard's been the best chair in quite some time. I'm thinking -- since the Clintons can't get McAuliffe to do that job again -- that it will be some hack like Begala that replaces him.

[truebrit71]

15. Which is yet ANOTHEr reason we don't need her a the nominee...

...this middle-way centrist bullshit just ain't gonna cut it anymore..

[ieoeja]

40. I think he goes anyway.

Never heard of a DNC chairman hanging around.

However, the nominee's advice, should s/he win, will carry a lot of weight in deciding his replacement. And Howard Dean is not what the Clintons/DLC oppose. They oppose the "fight for votes in EVERY congressional district" strategy.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Dean has been doing a fantastic job so far. It's Obama/Dean vs. DLC/Clinton, it seems.

[DURHAM D]

17. I am a Clinton supporter and a Dean supporter.

Dean has done a good job of building a party structure that resembles our opposition's organization. Candidates come and go but the party structure needs to be consistent and strong.

I support Dean in his handling of the Michigan and Florida issues. He is doing his job and doing it correctly.

Candidates and party organizations always bicker - it is natural. They have disparate interests.

[papau]

27. I agree - and I do not see any Hill/Dean war going on or about to start

[ieoeja]

41. Did it ever end?

They did everything in their power to stop his election as DNC chair. She repeatedly sided with GOP attacks against Dean in 2005 and 2006.

So, yeah, I guess it did end. She finally stopped attacking the head of the Democratic Party during the run up to this election. Sort of like * buying his ranch in 1999.

[cobalt1999]

18. I was always a Dean supporter.

I voted for him in 2004 and was sad about the Iowa/NH torpedoing of his campaign.

However, he screwed the pouch when it came to handling Florida/Michigan, pledges against campaigning, pulling names of ballots, unseating delegates. I can appreciate what he has done well, but still stand up and point out his failings.

[zalinda]

24. So, you are okay with people breaking agreements?

If FL and MI hadn't agreed to their primary date, you would probably have an argument, but they did agree. They backed out of the agreement, and so by your reasoning nothing should be done. If Dean let this go, then every state who disagreed with the primary order could do what ever they wanted to do and chaos would ensue.

zalinda

[OmahaBlueDog]

46. People break agreements all the time: It's how you deal with it

Michigan and Florida are important to getting a President elected in the general election. I know what Dr. Dean was trying to accomplish, but he should have taken half the delegates away (like the GOP did); it sends a message, but doesn't totally disenfranchise the voters.

Don't misunderstand -- Dean is a huge, 1000% improvement over Terry McCauliffe. When he was in the party leadership, there was never a close election we couldn't find a way to lose. That said, he screwed this one up.

[liskddksil]

20. Because a Hillary nomination means Harold Ford or someone like him at the DNC nt

[MoonRiver]

31. Not out of favor with me.

I love the guy. But I can pat my head and rub my tummy at the same time.

[Mike03]

32. If so, this is a sad development indeed

Dean is one of a handful of Democrats, in my opinion, who we have to be proud of over the past miserable seven years. It would be very sad to see Hillary burn this bridge. Dean has earned my respect and trust; HRC has my faith, but hasn't earned my trust yet, and kicking Dean around won't score points with me.

[rodeodance]

37. Its not so--IP wanted to diss clinton supporters who are happy that she

came out with a statement today asking for fl and mich delegates to be seated. She jumped to the conclusion that somehow we are dissing Dean.

For myself, I think the punishment is too harsh--that does not mean I -somehow no longer support Dean (as it says in the IP).

[Kucinich4America]

33. The DLC has ALWAYS hated Howard Dean

Considering he's the ONLY leader this party has had in this miserable decade, and most Democrats KNOW it, it's not hard to figure out why.

[Hieronymus]

44. That the DLC hates him is a sure sign that he's fabulous.

[rodeodance]

34. Dean is doing a great job but I disagree with what happened in FL and Mich.

[LittleClarkie]

36. Clinton's surrogates have NEVER liked him

dissing our gains in 2006 because they hated the whole 50 state strategy, saying they could have done even more if he'd have gotten out of his way. I think they were just pissed he did it without them. I'm thinking of Ford and Carville here esp.

I wonder what would have happened in 2004 if a Clinton person hadn't been Chairman.

I stand with Gov. Dean.

[Blackhatjack]

38. The TRUTH here is that DEAN gave Florida multiple chances to change their date and they REFUSED...

I don't think you can have a Democratic Party that runs its Nomination process in a manner that is fair to everyone without Rules.

Why is it Dean's fault that Florida chose to thumb their nose at the Party and its Rules?

Dean does not have anything to apologize for if he publicly takes Hillary to the Woodshed for what she has done. She has encouraged and participated in Florida's contemptuous actions, and there is no justifiable reason to to giver her a pass on this one.

The only fair action to take is that which was promised before the first Primary or Caucus was scheduled -- refuse to seat the delegates from Florida and other states which intentionally and contemptuously broke the rules. Period.

[jefferson_dem]

39. Remember who the Chairman of the ClintonInc campaign is...

[Alexander]

45. Shillbots hate Dean's populism. They tried to replace him with Harold Ford.

Right after the Democrats took Congress, with Harold Ford being the notable DLC loser in 2006.