Last night's Repub. debate shows why Hillary will LOSE if she's our nominee

[jenmito]

Romney can't WAIT to run against the Clintons, saying he doesn't think America wants to see Bill Clinton back in the WH with nothing to do, while Giuliani pointed out (the fact) that Hillary was FOR the war when 6 out of 10 people were FOR it and she was AGAINST the war when 6 out of 10 people were AGAINST it. So don't think Hillary's so "used to" being attacked that therefore she's the best person to run against them. They have LOTS of things to use against her, and not just the old fights of the 90s.

[NJSecularist]

1. Who cares about what Romney and Guilani think?

Hillary doesn't. The majority of the Democrat Party doesn't. Hillary is going to take no prisoners if she wins the nomination. She will fight for our party like Kerry (as much as I love him) didn't in 2004.

Guilani and Romney want to attack her? Hillary will attack them back. No big deal.

[Unsane]

7. Democrat Party?

wow, just..wow

[NJSecularist]

11. Do you really think the Democratic party cares what Mittens/Guilani...

think of Hillary Clinton? No, I really don't. The Republicans are going to hate the Democrats regardless. Whomever is nominated will be the same story.

Why should the Democrats care about who Romney and Guilani want to face in the GE? Are we now letting Romney and Guilani dictate who our nominee is?

Think about it logically for a second instead of engaging in some false outrage.

[jenmito]

15. YOU think about it logically for a second. The Repubs. have decades of hate

built up for the Clintons. They will unify the Repub. base like no other Dem. will. IF she won, it would be without the help of Indys and Repubs., too close for comfort. It will remain a divided country and that's only if she WOULD win since it would be close enough for the Repubs. to steal.

[NJSecularist]

25. This will be a divided country regardless

Why does everybody think the Republicans are magically going to extend their hands across the aisle to the Democrats? Here's a clue! They won't. Whether it is Obama, Edwards, Hillary or anybody who gets nominated. They haven't been willing to work across the aisle for almost 20 years! Why would they change now?

[jenmito]

29. No it won't. Obama appeals to Repubs. and Indys and can bring the country together

in a way Hillary can't.

[juajen]

45. That's just what the pugs want you to believe....until after the nomination!

NT

[jenmito]

52. No. That's what YOU don't believe. But it's true.

[leftynyc]

59. Looks like the pukes

have you snookered but good.

[jenmito]

72. Looks like you're in denial.

[leftynyc]

82. Yeah right

Obama is the saint and Hillary is the anti-Christ - I get it already.

[jenmito]

102. You clearly DON'T get it.

[elixir]

33. All the more reason that the Clintons can handle the heat, Obama can't.

[jenmito]

36. Hillary has made stupid votes that will be used against her. That's in ADDITION to the

long-standing hatred of both Clintons.

[zanne]

61. I agree. Hillary would make the Repub party stronger...

If Hillary wins the nomination, the Repub's hatred of her will have them out voting in droves. We'd be in for four more years of a Republican administration.

[jenmito]

13. WE should! It shows how well she excites THEIR base. And what's with the "Democrat party"?

Only Repubs. use that term to describe the Democratic party. Hillary can't fight facts. They're stubborn things.

[NJSecularist]

20. And guess what

All of the 4 GOP candidates excites our base to go vote against them. There are two sides to every coin.

[jenmito]

26. That's not necessarily true. If Hillary's our nominee, there WILL be Dems. who feel she's

too much of "the same" and will just stay home.

[juajen]

43. Then those dems care not one whit about this country.

Don't forget Roe vs. Wade and who will appoint the next SC justice, as well as many other items our dem president will be in favor of, that the pugs would not. This is just plain silly, like saying there was no difference between Gore and Bush. Does anyone believe that after the horrors of this Bush Administration?

I got your "democrat" reference, but after reading so many of your posts, I am wondering about you.

[jenmito]

62. Really? You're wondering about me being a real Dem. just because I say she'll

be seen as "more of the same" to some Dems.? True about the judges, but I'M talking about the Clintons' secrecy, hunger for power, willingness to change positions, etc. Sorry that you don't like the facts, but another Clinton presidency is nowhere the change this country needs.

[tblue37]

55. Many Dems like McCain and think he is "honest" and a "maverick."

He is neither, but they hear only what the media tells them, so they think he is a suitable second choice if their favorite Dem candidate doesn't get the nomination. If the Republicans nominate McCain, I truly believe Edwards is our only safe bet to beat him. I also fear Hillary would lose to him, and that with Obama it would be close enough for them tos teal it. Edwards not only beats him in national polls, but does so with much higher margins than either Hilalry or Obama. He also beats all the other possible Republicans with higher margins than either Hilalry or Obama. Plus he hasn't pissed everyone off so much that they will all take their ball and go home if their favorite candidate doesn't get the nomination.

On top of that, his populist message is the only one that acknowledges the damage unconstrained corporate power does to democracy and to the economy.

I do think a Hillary/Obama or Obama/Hillary ticket would win, but I also fear that they have stirred up such antagonisms that neither would willingly accept the second slot on the other's ticket. If Hillary gets the nom, as I believe she probably will, I hope she has the good sense to offer the VP slot to Obama--and that he has the good sense to takes it, since he will be young enough that 4-8 years as VP would position him perfectly for the presidential run, as well as calming fears of those who think he lacks experience or seasoning.

Edwards is my first chocie, but I will enthusiastically support any of them, and I honestly think any of them would make a fine president.

[Big Blue Marble]

17. Yeh, and after the war is over,

who will be left to unify this country around the challenges we face as a people. Winning is not everything.
In fact, winning is not anything, when all that is left is ruble. We do not need a another political war
in this country.

We need a new kind of leadership that will take this country forward not backward. If Clinton destroys
Obama, the probability is great that the Republicans will in 2012 offer us a new candidate with the
unifying message that Obama brought to us. And they will win with it. The Clintons are the past.
And it would have been better for this country, if they had stayed there.

[golddigger]

21. See if I can say this loud enough...

IT'S THE DEMOCRATIC PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!:mad: :wtf: :spank: :banghead:

[juajen]

46. The poster corrected that in her/his next post. T'was a mistake.

NT

[golddigger]

48. Self delete n/t

[russian33]

2. Hillary Clinton will wipe the floor with Mittens...

she has more intelligence in her pinky, than he has in his entire, sunburnt, head
and Rudy, well, Rudy's kind of done anyways

they have nothing to use against her, which hasn't already been thrown at her...i can't wait to watch anyone of those idiots try

[Occam Bandage]

5. Well, there is the last eight years' worth of Clinton. She's been mostly vetted before that,

but last night's debate did show that there's plenty of fun to be had with her record.

Of course, they'd have even more fun with Edwards', and possibly just as much with Obama's.

[jenmito]

16. She can't run from her record OR her past.

The Repubs. can't STAND her and would run over their grandmothers to vote against her.

[juajen]

47. Why do you think we would ever get the pug vote?

Whoever believes this is living in a "fairy tale". Oh, I see, these bigoted racists will suddenly embrace African Americans and vote Obama? Sheesh!

[jenmito]

65. Obama has proven he can get enough Indys and Repubs. to win BIG and unify the country

unlike any of the other Dems. It's shown in all the polls. He's likeable and respected. Yes, even by some Repubs.

[Occam Bandage]

3. And you think the Republicans *wouldn't* attack Barack Obama?

I agree Clinton has more ammunition to use against her, but as the swift-boaters showed, when they run out of ammunition they'll manufacture more.

[jenmito]

23. Of course they'd attack Obama or anyone else, but they have SO much distain for

the Clintons, and by "they" I mean regular voting Repubs., that she will keep the country divided IF she wins. Obama, on the other hand, is NOT hated by the other party and Indys. He'll GROW our support and no matter what the Repubs. throw at him, it will be nothing compared to what they'd be able to throw at BOTH the Clintons.

[Occam Bandage]

41. John Kerry's career was untouchable. They savaged him worse than they ever did the Clintons.

What they're "able" to throw at a candidate has nothing to do with what they will throw.

[jenmito]

51. True, but Kerry's mistake was he didn't fight back quickly or hard enough.

[MyNameGoesHere]

4. A poop slinging monkey

would win against any repub. I mean did you see the dolts the repubs are trying to nominate? jeez.

[jenmito]

32. I don't think so. Not if it's Hillary vs. Huckabee or McCain.

Huckabee, although nuts, seems honest and "nice." And McCain, while also nuts in a war-mongering way, is SEEN as a straight talker who sticks to his guns.

[leftynyc]

60. It's not going to be Huckabee or

McCain. Looks like Romney. The conservative base hates McCain.

[jenmito]

71. If Romney IS the nominee, Obama would beat him way better than Hillary would...

since Obama is seen as genuine and Hillary's not.

[leftynyc]

80. By who?

The people on this board? Don't make me laugh. Either one of them would stomp Romney simply because they are better candidates.

[jenmito]

83. You haven't seen the polls saying exactly that?

No, not just people on this board. Wake up and read something informative.

[leftynyc]

94. OOOOOH - Polls

Can't believe there are still people who believe those. How quaint.

[jenmito]

96. What a joke...

because polls were off in NH (since they didn't take any polls after Hillary "found her voice") you're claiming they mean nothing? :rofl:

[leftynyc]

99. Polls are a snapshot

If you think polls now are going to mean anything in November, you're delusional. Kerry was up 20 points over the chimp at one point. Keep laughing sunshine. You remind me of my 5 year old niece.

[jenmito]

100. A snapshot that tells you something.

something you don't want to believe, hon. ;-)

[leftynyc]

106. We'll see sweetie (n/t)

[MyNameGoesHere]

70. Did you hear mCcrane's answer to the

economic question he got from paul? Yeah they sure do shine in a debate against someone with a brain.

[jenmito]

74. Yup. Doesn't matter. Hillary would energize the Repubs. against her like nobody else.

[FiveGoodMen]

69. Do you realize what dolts are going to do much of the voting?

How do you think we got where we are today?

[katmondoo]

6. Oh! and there is nothing the Democrats can use against

Bush and the Republicans. I think a daily list of the years of Bush 1 and 2 should do it. Add to that the Reagan years.

[jenmito]

35. Who said there is nothing we can use against THEM?

My point is that the Clintons have so much resentment against them that they'll be the easiest to beat. (By "they'll" I mean Hillary AND Bill).

[SaveElmer]

8. As opposed to Barack...who loses Massachusetts, New York and maybe California...

To McCain...

[Inuca]

28. What nonsense!! n/t

[SaveElmer]

34. Only if you ignore evidence...nt

[Inuca]

44. Would you care to elaborate? n/t

[SaveElmer]

49. ...

Within the MoE in New York and California

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportPopup.aspx?g=bee23879-e7dc-4feb-b250-a5a32ab7b66c&q=44325

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportPopup.aspx?g=7f401041-7f0c-4576-86ca-adbe0a08fb9c&q=44325

Loses Massachusetts

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportPopup.aspx?g=ad723bad-3bee-40ac-9b99-ab9b2043c2b3&q=44325

[jenmito]

37. Barack will beat any Repub. much more easily than Hillary. Hillary's a divider.

Obama's REALLY a uniter-whom the Repubs. fear running against. He doesn't energize the RW base like Hillary does.

[suston96]

9. Bill Clinton will do the same "nothing" he has been doing since he left the White House in 2001....

And you all know what that was.

[leftynyc]

63. Except for

raising mountains of money for AIDS and tsunami victims.

[Triana]

10. On NPR this morning...one of the pundits said the same thing I've said all along...

...that "Republicans are chomping at the bit to run against Clinton" - his comment was based on last night's Repube debate.

They HATE the Clintons and are salivating at the chance to have another go at them.

Personally, I'd rather not have to endure that - with her as a candidate or with her as President - IF she ever made it.

Puhleeeze can we have someone ELSE besides a bu$h or a Clinton?

[jenmito]

38. Yup, which is the same thing I said in my OP.

I agree we need change from the Bush-Clinton cycle.

[Essene]

56. Exactly. The establishment for the Dems are deluding themselves about Hillary...

And seriously harming the part in the process, especially alienating large portions of their base with the smears and blatant show of entitlement.

[JAbuchan08]

12. In other words we can't take for granted that she will respond effectively to the truth.

In the Democratic primaries she has done everything she can to discredit the truth and both herself and her supporters decry truthful attacks as being unfair. Well, she's going to be quite unprepared then for the Republicans, who are not above using the truth when it suits their agenda. Sure, they'll lie as well but Hillary has provided them plenty of ammunition by being mendacious and calculating.

On edit: I understand some of Hillary's distinctions and the nuance of some of her views, even if I disagree with them, but with the Republicans nuance goes out the window. It doesn't matter what her intentions were in voting for the Iraq war, because her intentions are not important to the Republicans. The fact that she voted for the war will be enough to discredit her.

[jenmito]

39. Well put.

:hi:

[OHdem10]

14. If you believe this, there is a bridge I have at discount price.

Romney vs Obama What do you want America. A successful Businmess
Turn Around Specialist versus a Community Organizer We are facing
serious Economic dislocations and International Problems.
Have you not listened to Republicans on their town meetings??
Obama?? what has he done?/ they have their talking points
already out there.

[jenmito]

40. I believe it and don't want your bridge.

Romney's the biggest flip-flopper out there. Obama, unlike Hillary, is seen as genuine and as having good judgement.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. I'm

:scared:

[AlCzervik]

19. oh please, Romney barely got jumped on last night so he looked somehwhat ok to gopers

but in a real debate when he does get attacked he will react badly, i've seen him do it before and it will happen again, he's got a really thin skin.

[jenmito]

42. I don't think Romney will be their nominee. That's not my point.

My point is that the Repubs. have not only hatred of the Clintons on their side, but her voting record.

[mondo joe]

22. An amateurish analysis. They've had better than a decade of smearing

her and she's still here, running successfully. They have used their bag of tricks. And theitr hatred for her makes them foolish and irrational.

[jenmito]

75. An accurate analysis. It doesn't make her our best candidate because she's been smeared so long...

BOTH of the Clintons are hurting our party with their "win at any cost" tactics. And the way they're running their campaign, they'll run the country. Their hatred of them is REAL and WILL energize the Repubs. to come out and vote against her.

[EFerrari]

24. That's exactly the impression I got, too. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

27. It's a familiar fight the GOP is comfortable fighting.

They have warehouses of anti-Clinton paraphernalia ready to be dusted off and recycled. They have the talking points and the venom. And off they go ...

Just say no to politics as usual. Gobama! :hi:

K&R

[jenmito]

78. Exactly...

Thank you. :hi:

[smoogatz]

30. 6 out of 10 Americans still hate the war. 4 out of 5 Republican candidates

LOVE the war, and want it to go on forevah.

[Essene]

57. And 40-45% of americans hate Hillary. They hate Congress more than they have Bush, too.

[jenmito]

76. Right. And like they said, when 6 out of 10 Americans were FOR the war, so was Hillary.

And as shown last night, they WILL use that against her (and Edwards).

[Big Blue Marble]

31. That is my nightmare.

Romney vs. Clinton and Clinton loses. OMG. After eight years of Bush, then four years of this idiot.

No matter the all the arguments to the contrary around here, HRC is the one they want. They have
been preparing for this battle for years. And remember Romney is the anointed one. Anointed by the
Bushes and by right wing talk radio. All systems will be firing together. It would be a rough, rough fall.
And never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter to fall for it all.

[juajen]

50. Excuse me! This country will not vote in a candidate for President

who wears "special underswear." I believe Romney is good looking; but giggle every time I picture him in his "special underwear." Now it it was red, blue and gold, maybe?

[OHdem10]

53. Republicans fall in line. If Romney is nominee ,they will

coalesce around him and march to the finish.

This is the one thing I admire about GOP. Once a decision is
made, they stick to it and go for broke. Once a leader is chosen
you never hear any group snipe against him.

[leftynyc]

66. Evangelicals will not vote for a Mormon

They think it's a cult. And there is something about Mormons being able to become Gods themselves. This country ain't voting for a Mormon.

[Big Blue Marble]

54. Hey, I never thought the voters would fall for Reagan.

I never thought the voters would fall for George W. Bush.

Why should I think they will never fall for Mitt the twit?

I have learned my lesson.

[jenmito]

79. Mine too...

I can't believe so many people don't see this!

[leftynyc]

58. Like 70% of the country was for the war

before it started. Then when all the lies came out (no WMD's, no Al Queda connection) came to light, they changed their mind. I suspect many will understand Clinton's change of heart came with additional information - you know, like an adult who doesn't stubbornly stick to a position that is wrong in the face of new evidence.

And I hardly think Romney is going to go the flip/flop route on Hillary.

[jenmito]

81. Over half the Dems. in Congress was AGAINST the war. Not Hillary (and Edwards), though.

Hillary didn't even read the NIE AND she consulted with her husband (who recently claimed to be against the war from the start) before she voted for it. ANY Repub. can use that against her.

[Faryn Balyncd]

64. There is ONE candidate that the Republicans CANNOT DEFEAT . . . . .

. . . . John Edwards.


If a Republican is sworn in as president next January, it will because we handed them victory by rejecting our candidate with the MOST BACKBONE, who also happens to be (contrary to DLC theory) our most ELECTABLE candidate.

[jenmito]

84. That's bull.

Not only will he be destroyed by the Repubs. by pointing out his voting record (which is in contrast to his current rhetoric) they'll show that stupid video of him combing his hair. Junk like that works.

[Richardson08]

67. Why are you scared of a fight?Clinton will beat all of them

[jenmito]

85. Who's scared of a fight? I'm scared of LOSING, which we will more likely do if Hillary's

our nominee.

[Dante_]

68. The day I fall for GOP spin is the day I...

I can't believe others will allow the GOP to dictate who the Dem nominee should be.

Romney would be eaten alive by the Clintons...make no doubt about it. Kennedy beat him in a Mass Senate race

[jenmito]

86. Call it "GOP spin" all you want. It doesn't make it false.

[Dante_]

73. Yeah, and we want a flip flopper in a time of war.

let me write the slogans and Romney is toast.

let me at him. grrrrrrrrr!

[jenmito]

88. We want someone who had the judgement to be against it before it started.

That's Obama.

[southern_dem]

77. Hillary will wax any Republican except McCain

and I'd still give her a 50/50 chance in that matchup.

[jenmito]

89. I don't think so.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. If It's Anybody But McCain HRC Can Get Eighty Five Percent Of The Hispanic Vote

That will be huge... The reason Bush* won in 00 was because he was able to mitigate his losses in the Hispanic community...

Record Hispanic turnout...


Record women turnout...

McCain will lose by two to four points to The Hill...The others will lose by at least six points...

[jenmito]

90. The head to head polls disagree with you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. They Do NOT

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

She seems to be doing just fine...

If the Pugs nominate a nativist like Romney who wants to send all the Hispanics back home they will lose the vote of the fastest growing minority in the nation... Their only hope is the non-nativist John McCain...

[jenmito]

95. Thanks for the link showing Obama beats them all by larger margins than Hillary does.

[flpoljunkie]

91. Hillary as our nominee is, as we all know--even if some won't admit it--their most "fervent prayer."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. Ipse Dixit

~

[jenmito]

98. Bakka.

[jenmito]

97. Exactly. Thanks for the perfect cartoon which sums it all up!

:hi:

[Evergreen Emerald]

101. Unless..they think that we think that they want her and so we will choose Obama who they really

want to compete against, because he is not presidential material.

[jenmito]

103. Nope. Nice try. Obama is liked by Indys and some Repubs., unlike Hillary,

who they KNOW will unify their party against us. Obama won't motivate the Repubs. to go out and vote against him like they would Hillary.

[Evergreen Emerald]

104. Right. Like Obama has unified the party so far with his false "racism" crys?

He is not a unifiying force. Look on DU

[jenmito]

105. Um, race was not a part of his campaign until the CLINTONS interjected it!

Wake up.

[Thrill]

107. They are going to pound the Bill Clinton back in the White House crap. She has no chance

Thats the only thing that can fire up the Republicans. If she wins the nominations, the Repukes will get the White House again

[jenmito]

108. Exactly. We ALWAYS find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And nominating Hillary

will bring about defeat again!

[Robbins]

109. Reality people

Huckabee,and Saint Rudy will not win.Huckabee couldn't win In South Carolina,and the best he can do
Is third.We will face Mccain or romney.Hillary can beat Romney.She can't Mccain.Obama beats Romney.
Obama has a chance against Mccain.The media has been building up Mccain as maverick since 2000.
We need Obama as consenst on Iraq,and we need someone who can be seen as truthful on the Economy.
Hillary Is not liked by some democrats,and Independents.Obama can compete with Mccain with them.
Obama can get some moderate Republican voters to vote for him.

A warning about those who taurt out state polls claiming Obama would lose easily.Polls can change.
Bush was once thought to win easily In 2000,and 2004.Bush senior was thought to win In 1992 at this
stage.Dukakis was ahead of Bush at some points In 1988,and the 1984 election was thought to be close,and at one point Carter was leading Reagan In 1980.Those shows any who says state polls at this stage will reflect how the vote goes Is Ignoring history.

Bottom line If enough Democrats disagree with those who support Obama and pick Hillary you better
hope Romney Is the nominee.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

110. the right wing media and the GOP will sink Hillary