Hillary vs McCain? We’ll lose BIG

[Cyrano]

There’s a lot more than the presidency at stake in this year’s general election. For the first time in decades, we’ve got a shot at winning the White House and possibly, a veto-proof majority in congress. IMO, it will never happen if Hillary is our candidate.

This election is going to be decided by independent voters who are as disgusted with the Bush years as we are. And I believe those independents will flock to McCain rather than Hillary. Further, Republican voters who might stay home if Obama or Edwards is our candidate, will flock to the polls driven by “Hillary hatred.” And you can bet that they’ll all be voting for Republicans for congress.

The hatred for Bill and Hillary was bought and paid for over a period of 20 years by the likes of billionaires like Richard Mellon Scaife and others of his ilk. He’s been hounding the Clintons since Bill was the governor of Arkansas. And even though everything he’s peddled are lies, far too many people in this country believe them.

McCain, on the other hand, is still viewed by many as a maverick. There are even Dems who think he’s “not so bad” and who would vote for him. The best I can say about McCain is that he’s not quite as insane as the other Republicans. But he is the only one who stands a chance of winning. The majority of Republicans don’t like him, but they’ll hold their noses and vote for him out of fear of what they call the “Hildebeast.”

Let me make it clear that I’m not Hillary bashing. If Hillary is our candidate in the general election, I’ll vote for her and I believe that almost everyone else here on DU will too. But it won’t make a bit of difference. I honestly believe that, if she has to go up against McCain, we won’t win the White House or larger majorities in the congress.

Most people don’t pay as much attention to politics as we do. They get most of their political news from Tweety, Russert, Fox and all the other media whores. And if you think the MSM is going to say a kind word about Hillary, you’re dreaming. (Yes, they would also trash Obama or Edwards, but neither one of them is carrying the baggage that Hillary is.)

This posting will piss off a lot of you, but I’d rather piss you off than see another Republican in the White House. Our country is teetering on the brink of disaster and four or eight more years of Republican rule will push us over the edge. It’s critical that we get a Democrat into the White House and win total control of the House and Senate.

[TwilightGardener]

1. I think he'll end up being seen as Bob Dole redux--

people want to vote for the future, not the past. He's just not that impressive, besides his POW experience, anyway.

[calico1]

5. Plus he wants to stay in Iraq,

something most Americans are opposed to. I don't think the Indies will give him massive support.

[Turbineguy]

7. He doesn't want to stay in Iraq

this is a DU Myth.

[TwilightGardener]

8. Uh, no--that's not a DU myth, that's a fact. He says leaving Iraq would

mean "surrender", and he's fine with us being there for 100 or 1000 years, if we can keep US casualties low. Please google and read.

[krabigirl]

Yep.

[calico1]

14. I don't see how DU is powerful enough to

put words in McCain's mouth and make him repeat them. :shrug:

[TwilightGardener]

21. I can't believe someone who's been on DU since 2004 can be so misinformed--

I don't get it. Did he confuse McCain with Paul or Hagel, perhaps? :wtf:

[whopis01]

34. Never underestimate the power of DU.

Oh, no wait, I meant the force... nevermind.

[LostinVA]

18. It's NOT a "DU Myth" -- he just said it again

[Lochloosa]

24. From his website.

The American people also deserve to know that the path ahead will be long and difficult. They have heard many times that the violence in Iraq will subside soon - when a transitional government is in place, when Saddam is captured, when elections are held, when a constitution is in place. John McCain believes it is far better to describe the situation just as it is - difficult right now, but not without hope. The stakes for America could not be higher.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/fdeb03a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

[Turbineguy]

32. Attack me all you want

But believing things about opponents that are wrong puts you in a risky position.

I think it's important to know what is true, even if it is not what you want to hear or believe.

McCain is of the position that we have no choice but to stay in Iraq. That's not the same thing as wanting to stay and wanting to continue Bush's war. He expressed staying in Iraq in the context of the US presence in Japan and Korea. It is accepted widely in the US that there are no easy solutions in Iraq.

[TwilightGardener]

35. If you support McCain's view, then you need to consider joining a different forum.

McCain WANTS to stay in Iraq--in fact, he said he would have invaded even now, after knowing about the bad intel and WMD's. I find it baffling that you're defending a man who's even more pro-war than George Bush.

on edit--are you Joe Lieberman?

[Turbineguy]

36. I don't support McCains view.

(knee-jerk response deleted)

I think it's important to understand what the republican opponents espouse in order to oppose them.

What has happened here on DU lately is a victory for the freepers. DU Members saying such awful things about eachother.

[TwilightGardener]

37. No--you were trying to present McCain's massive war erection

as somehow not a choice, but something we "have" to do--we don't WANT to stay in Iraq, we HAVE to, just like Korea. The "tell" was when you implied that people can have different viewpoints on what to do about Iraq. Not on DU, however, buddy--the view on DU, and for Dems in general, is that the war must end and that we must leave, not stay there for 50 or 100 years. You revealed yourself as pro-occupation, and now you're trying to cover your tracks.

[Turbineguy]

39. Thank you

for making my point.

I don't usually get into flame wars either.

On edit: Carry On!

[TwilightGardener]

43. You presented misleading and pro-Repub/pro-war info, and DUers called you on it.

Now you're trying to pretend that you're just trying to help us understand what the official Repub war talking point would be--LOL! You're transparent.

[Turbineguy]

45. I'm afraid you are too subtle for me

1) My son just got out of the Marine Corps. I am against the occupation of Iraq. I wrote to my Senators and Congressman to ask them to vote against the authorization of force back in 2002.

2) I intend to vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever that may be.

Maybe we should concentrate on defeating Republicans instead of eachother. Truce?

[TwilightGardener]

46. Don't misrepresent McCain's obvious fanaticism for the Iraq War as anything

other than what it is--he's no reluctant warrior just looking for the best way out--he goes on and on about "victory" and "surrender" and "cut-and-run". He believes we should have stayed in Vietnam to "win". He's fucking nuts, and it's absolutely silly to come on DU and try to present him as somehow "anti-war". Staying in Iraq, long-term, as if it's just like Korea, is a 100% Neocon Republican-manufactured viewpoint--it's part of the original Neocon plan to ensure our permanent presence in the Middle East, keeping our influence there, controlling the oil, and guarding Israel. It's not a "solution" to end the war, it's the whole point of the occupation. I respect your son's service--but my husband is an active-duty Air Force officer who has deployed three times to the Middle East in support of our activities in Iraq, and I do not tolerate any suggestion that there's any other solution to Iraq than to end it and bring our troops home--hopefully ALL of them in the next few years. That's where I stand--truce.

[toadzilla]

49. read his own website, he wants to expand the war, add a lot more troops.

[YEM]

2. Get a life

Not happening.

[book_worm]

3. I think every one of our three remaining candidates can beat McCain.

but I do also believe that he would be the toughest to beat. That is why I'm rooting for Mittens in Florida.

[BobRossi]

4. Hillarious will loose to any repuke.

She will NOT get the independent vote.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[goldcanyonaz]

10. !!!!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Jersey Devil]

30. Your flamebait response

"Hillarious"? Why not go all out and start using freeper terms like "Hillabitch" while you're at it?

[paulk]

44. why don't you provide some reasoning for that?

oh, that's right, you never do that. You just make some moronic flamebait statement then walk away.


ps - learn how to spell. Otherwise people might begin to think you're nothing but a complete fucking idiot.

[Turbineguy]

6. A Senator Clinton nomination

will put the RW Hate Machine in bi-turbo mode. And I'm sure everything is already in place and waiting for somebody to push the start button.

[LostinVA]

20. Oh gosh, they might find out something about WHITEWATER?!

There's nothing they can come with on HRC that they haven't already thrown at her.

Ridiculous.

[elixir]

40. You're absolutely right, these dead horses haven't been beaten enuf..

If this is all HRC has to worry about from the GOP, we're in luck. I can't imagine what they have in the playbook for BO and JE!! Remember those are untested, unchartered waters with no vetting and HRC hasn't even given them a really tough time.

[BeyondGeography]

11. Democratic voters will have positioned a 72-year-old white man as the candidate of change

if they nominate Hillary.

That's quite an achievement, even from a party that loses elections as much as ours.

[Bitwit1234]

12. If the guy with the empty suit is the nominaee by hook or crook

the republicans will have the biggest darn landslide they have ever had. Probably the dems would only win one state.

[Clintonite]

13. Bullshit! Yes the republican ans some Indies hate the clintons, but they will get the rest.

Do not let the republican talking points get to ya!

[godai]

15. So...that's like...40%? n/t

[Kucinich4America]

17. Republicans, some indies...

And most REAL Democrats. And the only "Republican talking points" around here are the ones coming from the Al From boiler room.

[LostinVA]

16. ANY of the three can beat any of the GOP candidates

And, recent polls prove your OP wrong.

[Cyrano]

31. The GOP has rounded up the biggest group of clowns possible, with the exception

of McCain. For some reason, he still has credibility among far too many people, some Dems included.

As far as polls, they change every week. None of us know what those polls will look like next week, next month, or most importantly, on election day.

[Barack_America]

22. President McCain it will be.

Thus far in the primaries she has shown no ability to attract independents

She has alienated and, if Obama is successfully marginalized as the "black candidate", disheartened African American voters

She has alienated and disheartened the youth vote

She has Republicans chomping at the bit to defeat her


How anyone thinks she can win is beyond me.

[TwilightGardener]

23. Actually, Rasmussen (which favors Repubs) has her edging McCain today--

but Obama beats him by a bigger margin.

[Carolina]

25. ditto

Dems will snatch defeat from victory ... AGAIN.

Some on this board do not realize how visceral Clinton hatred is in parts of this country. Add a dose of misogyny, and a "straight talking" white male veteran as the opponent and Dems will surely LOSE!

[DemCam]

26. She'll clean his clock

[Cyrano]

27. Many on this thread would agree with you. However, I believe you and

they are thinking with your hearts rather than with your heads.

As I said in my original post, I'll vote for her if she's our nominee. But we've got to make absolutely sure we get a Dem into the White House. And Hillary is not a sure thing. There are just too many idiots in this country who have bought into all the crap that's been thrown at her for 20 years and they hate her. I don't want to see people like that voting, but like it or not, they will. Especially if McCain is the Republican nominee.

[DemCam]

50. I don't see a sure thing in the field...Dem or Republican

[mondo joe]

28. If Obama can't even unify Democrats to suppotr him how will he unify the country?

?

[Cyrano]

29. No one is going to unify anything.

That's just campaign rhetoric. Trying to unite Dems and Rethugs under current conditions would be like unifying Nazis and Jews.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. I agree that she would lose to McCain.

I think she would lose to Bloomberg, as well. Mittens? Not to sure -- too close to call.

I think there are a lot of Independents and conservative Dems who would be very comfortable with McCain.

[NJObamaWoman]

38. The Dems deserve to lose if they put HRC on the ticket.

Almost any other Dem would be better than her after the way the Clintons have behaved.

[Cyrano]

41. I can't agree with you, NJObama.

After eight years of living in Hell under a Republican dictatorship, we deserve to win under any circumstances. However, what we deserve and what will happen are two different things. I honestly believe that Hillary can't beat McCain. Her negatives are so high that she'll cause a huge Republican turnout that will swamp us on election day.

[LostinVA]

42. My my my

[Beacool]

47. I went over enemy lines to see want they were thinking.

The Freepers are very unhappy with McCain as their front-runner and several compared him to Dole. They even had links to articles that showed him in a bad light, such as his dumping his first wife for a rich trophy wife. Also, and more serious, articles pointing out how much he has to rely on his wife to remember certain events and to physically get in and out of planes and cars.

[DemCam]

51. Yes...Reagan Repub husband loathes McCain...will vote HRC but not Obama

Reason? Experience and toughness. He has voted Democratic
since Reagan...and it'll be hard for him to do...but McCain
is not trusted at all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. We'll lose, no matter which one wins.

And, of course be told, that one "isn't as bad" as the other.

[Godhumor]

52. The new Bloomberg poll (yes a poll, I figure we need some actual numbers here)

Has her beating each of the republican frontrunners by a wider margin than any other democrat with the exception of McCain where she and Obama are both in statistical ties (Obama was tied and Clinton was up by 4% which was within the margin of error). Moreover, according to the poll 2/3 of Edwards supporters would break for Clinton over Obama if Edwards drops out.

Also, do not forget how powerful of an effect picking the "right" VP candidate can have on reluctant voters.

[WinkyDink]

53. Just keep showing "The Hug".