does anyone understand this goofy fair tax that Huckabee is talking about?

[IndianaJones]

How does this help people? How is it "fair"?

This guy really is Gomer Pyle.

[redqueen]

1. You might be shocked to know how many dumbasses down here

sincerely believe that's the magical answer to all our problems, just like Gomer.

Then again, you might not be so surprised at all. :crazy:

[IndianaJones]

8. I'm only shocked you would live among them. nt.

[redqueen]

13. If I had the money to move, I wouldn't. (nt)

[Dante_]

10. simple solutions for simpletons?

tax the heck out of wealth.

what, will people stop trying to become wealthy?

[redqueen]

15. That is exactly what ole Gomer said!

And yeah, that's what they believe.

They are the dumbest semi-educated people on earth.

[Dante_]

2. nope

and he lied about not pushing his beliefs on others.

he wishes the constitution was more like the bible

[Occam Bandage]

3. Yeah, it's pretty simple.

1. Abolish the IRS and the income tax.
2. Institute a nationwide 30% sales tax (on top of whatever state/county/city sales taxes you have).
3. Offer a rebate to everyone to help the poor hurt hardest by this.
4. Watch as the economy grinds to a halt, as you have just placed a massive disincentive to spending.
5. Watch as poor folk and the middle class pay the entire tax burden.
6. Watch rich folk laugh as they effectively pay zero taxes.
7. Watch tax revenues crash.
8. Success!

[IndianaJones]

4. do the poor get the rebate at the end of the year like a tax refund?

because by then they will be homeless and starving.

[Occam Bandage]

19. It really doesn't matter either way, since

they're paying taxes continuously, and the rebate comes once per twelve months.

[CK_John]

21. There would be no IRS to send a refund under his pie in the sky plan. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

28. Simply another, equally-intrusive bureaucracy.

[Nederland]

6. Funny

These types of taxes seem to work just fine in Europe...

[Dante_]

9. Anti-Semitism worked fine in Europe too.

sorry

[Occam Bandage]

14. Europe does have VATs, but also income taxes.

[papau]

17. nope - they don't work just fine in Europe - the EU folks pay income taxes - the VAT is indeed

a sales tax and as high as the low 20's in countries with 35 hour weeks and 6 week vacations - but those countries also have an income tax - for the simple reason the poor do not have enough buying power to milk a lot of money from them and the rich can avoid the VAT via rather simple means (as we found out with our luxury goods tax of 1993 that collected near zero and was repealed after a few years).

To fund the gov the rate would be over 50%, the rich would have to agree to not hide their purchases (the IRS would be twice the size it is now as we chased implied sales tax not paid) and folks would need to get use to buying a house for $500,000 and the paying $250,000 as sales tax to the gov - indeed with an exemption for home purchases the tax will near 60% as the business purchases are offset by sales - hence the term value added tax.

[redqueen]

22. Thanks, papau...

:hi:

[papau]

29. :-)

:hi:

[Nederland]

30. Yes they do

I have a cousin who lives in France, and friends in Sweden and England--VAT taxes work very well thank you. They help reduce the mindless consumption that Americans seem enamored with and reduce the environmental damage that comes with it. In Sweden for example, people sometimes wait years to buy furniture and other common household items because they are so expensive. However, when they do buy something, the buy good solid stuff designed to last forever, unlike Americans who walk off to Walmart and buy pieces of crap, only to have to come back two years later because, well, they bought crap. It's a different way of looking at things and I guess you just don't get it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. However, the burden of VAT falls more on the poor than the rich

in the UK and, I have no doubt, elsewhere (I can get you UK figures). A system with just a sales tax/VAT and no income tax would ruin the poor, the rich would build up immense wealth (and spend it abroad, avoiding the sales tax), and the economy would indeed be trashed - worse than the Great Depression.

[Beer Snob-50]

7. why do you think the rich will effectively pay zero taxes?

they have to buy as much as anyone else.

[rurallib]

11. black market goods

just like today, only on steroids. You ever pay anyone 'under the table' so you avoid sales tax and he avoids income tax?

[Occam Bandage]

18. Two reasons.

First, the rich spend the lowest proportion of their income on goods and services. To someone pulling in $800k+/yr, the tax on food is negligible.

Second, the rich have options for far more channels for flow of goods than the poor do. The rich can have a masseuse come to their house and pay cash. The rich can broker cash-only private contracts between dealers of expensive goods. The rich can more easily turn outside the country for goods; I myself (despite being rather not-rich) have purchased art from China and effectively avoided paying any duties or taxes through the slightest bit of creativity.

[crawfish]

24. If there is a way to get the rich to pay their fair share,

I'm all over it. Sadly, with great wealth comes the ability to use great resources to protect it.

[redqueen]

25. Exactly!

"with great wealth comes the ability to use great resources to protect it"

Spot frickin on.

[Occam Bandage]

27. But even if they couldn't, a sales tax is the most regressive tax possible.

[Occam Bandage]

26. There simply isn't, even if you could tax every dollar they spend.

The poor spend the highest proportion of their income. They have to, to survive. The middle-class spend less still, the upper-middle-class less still, the upper-class less still, and the super-rich spend the least. The ultra-rich spend an absolutely insignificant proportion of their income.

EVEN IF every dollar spent was taxed, that would mean that the poor and middle class would be taxed on over 100% of their income (since they have on average, a negative savings rate), the upper class on maybe 80% of their income, and the super-rich on 5% of their income.

That is not "their fair share."

[Beer Snob-50]

32. thanks for the explanation

makes logical sense. i have to rethink my position on it. you have got to admit though that he was at least singing a different song than the rest of them. all the rest had that repugnant make bushes tax cuts permanent.

[TwilightGardener]

12. You'd have to pay a sales tax on everything, from what I understand--

even on services like health care, even on real estate. Stupid.

[HereSince1628]

20. I doubt that actually includes the purchase of stocks and bonds.

As out of touch as the Huckster is, he's still a republican. They'd NEVER put a tax on the purchase of part ownership in a corporation.

[PDJane]

5. That tax

is neither fair nor viable.

I have no idea why so many folks think it`s a good idea, but there are lots who do.

[HereSince1628]

16. It's like this...the rich will let the rest do whatever they like so long as the rich

either don't have to pay for it or it provides the rich greater riches. This tax fits into that pattern.

It isn't fair with respect to the distribution of the cost of government among citizens. It disproportionately unburdens the rich because they can't spend the same proportion of their money in ways that generate sales taxes as the poor.

It should be clear from the "stimulus" plan that everyone, including the Dems, believes that the poor are more likely to spend their money in ways that engage the retail economy and thereby sales taxes. Huh? Put a 30% sales tax on stock and bond purchases? You've GOT to be kidding!!!!!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. If it is such a great idea, why didn't he try it out in Arkansas

when he was governor? Instead, he simply required many service industries (mine included) to start charging sales tax. He did nothing to lower or abolish our state income tax (which is skewed to favor the rich investors not poor folks). If he were elected, my guess would be he'd abolish the income tax on investments, keep it on salaries, and then add the federal sales tax on everything--and I mean everything. Sure, the rich will pay taxes on what they buy--here in the US. They won't pay a dime in taxes on investment or investment income. The poor will lose their income tax credits and such and have the wonderful honor of having a 30% markup on the clothing they buy in thrift stores and the groceries they buy at salvage grocery places.