Obama is moving closer to a scorched earth campaign against Clinton

[Tom Rinaldo]

He does so with a new ad that just now is hitting the airwaves. The full text along with a link is at the bottom of this OP.

It wasn't so long ago that Democratic candidates would sound less harsh than this in their attacks on Republicans. It is the sweeping nature of the charge: "Hillary Clinton will say ANYTHING to get elected" that stands out. A Standard primary attack from one Democrat to another is more along the lines of "so and so deliberately misrepresented my record when s/he said..." Or "so and so is playing loose with the facts again". This Ad goes way past that. This ad virtually accuses Hillary Clinton of being a total sociopath. This level of attack, the equivalent of: "You can't believe a word she says because she will do anything for power" is more virulent than the attacks John Kerry made on George W. Bush during the 2004 Presidential campaign. If Obama claims that his message is uplifting compared to Clinton's that is partially being accomplished now by shoving her down while claiming she thrives in the mud.

Barack Obama isn't attacking George W. Bush with these words. He is saying that the women who at the very least is the co-favorite to become the Democratic nominee for President has absolutely no regard for the truth. He is saying that about a woman who is very popular with very large segments of the Democratic base. And he is saying this about the woman who may be all that stands between America being ruled for 4 more years by a Republican President come next November. Couple this with Obama's comments that hint at his support not all being transferable to Clinton if he doesn't win the nomination and ask yourself who is really undermining the chance for Party unity after our primaries are over?

Yet for now the media meme is that it is Hillary and/or Bill Clinton who are being divisive and going negative. The media meme is that Hillary Clinton is the one who is tearing the Democratic Party apart while trying to win its nomination. This is a very interesting and dangerous strategy Obama is embracing. I wonder if he will get away with it, and I wonder what the after effects of it will be once the nomination battle is concluded.



The actual Ad script reads as follows:

Obama: "I’m Barack Obama, running for president and I approve this message."

Announcer: "It’s what’s wrong with politics today. Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected. Now she’s making false attacks on Barack Obama.

"The Washington Post says Clinton isn’t telling the truth. Obama 'did not say that he liked the ideas of Republicans.' In fact, Obama’s led the fight to raise the minimum wage, close corporate tax loopholes and cut taxes for the middle class.

"But it was Hillary Clinton, in an interview with Tom Brokaw, who quote 'paid tribute' to Ronald Reagan’s economic and foreign policy. She championed NAFTA –- even though it has cost South Carolina thousands of jobs. And worst of all, it was Hillary Clinton who voted for George Bush’s war in Iraq.

"Hillary Clinton. She’ll say anything, and change nothing. It’s time to turn the page. Paid for by Obama for America."

AUDIO ---> http://a.media.abcnews.com/podcasts/Tapper.mp3

[TwilightGardener]

1. He's learning to bring a gun to a knife fight. I don't blame him. And don't

think the Repubs haven't noticed that Hillary has called him "naive", belittled his experience as a "part time" state Senator, and brought up the "present" and sex-shop votes and Rezko. Give me a break.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. I agree with you. He is bringing a gun to a knife fight

The knife fight is the Democratic Primary, and I don't expect him to show up with a sling shot for that, I expect the knife.

The gun battle is the General Election when a Democrat will run against a Republican. And whoever we send into that battle will first have to heal from the wounds they suffer in this one.

I expect some Obama supporters to claim that Hillary is packing a gun. It can be argued that way. But usually I see it argued that Hillary has a gun while Obama has an open smile and hope for a better way forward. That is not what I am seeing with this ad.

[Cha]

8. Obama is actually bringing a gun to a gun fight..

if we have to use the 7 samurai analogy:)

[TwilightGardener]

12. I was using the "Untouchables"/Sean Connery analogy--

sadly, pop-culture references are all I know. :)

[Bake]

85. He'd best bring some kryptonite ...

And some backup. The Clintons know how to fight.

Bake

[yourout]

2. Hillary is also leaving a toasty trail.

Before it's said and done the two of them are going to chase away alot of votes that one of them is going to need in the general.

[lapfog_1]

3. Good! About damn time!

"Bring it on!"

[DURHAM D]

4. What a strange ad -

it is contradictory in message. This is what people will hear "I don't like Republicans and she does because she likes Ronald Reagan."

I can't figure out who this is aimed at.

He is winning South Carolina by double digits according to everything I have read. Why go down this road. I wonder if they have internals that are showing some problems.

[Whisp]

11. she'll almost cry in SC, and miraculously win.

it's in the cards.
there is no stopping the bush/clinton/bush/clinton thingie.

[hogwyld]

46. After Hillarey, it'll be Jeb

followed by Chelsea...

[Whisp]

58. then Pierce Bush

ugh. what a dispicable name.

[paulk]

5. pretty harsh -

and disappointing, really. The man seems to be burning his bridges.

[FrenchieCat]

7. But since you don't support him, do you really care?

[paulk]

10. yes, I do.

I think Obama is taking some very bad political advice that could hurt his career if he doesn't win the nomination - and I don't think he'll win the nomination.

You know, it is possible to support one candidate and still be objective about the process. I realize that you seem to have some difficulty with this - now that you've finally chosen a candidate you've gone from one of the better posters on this board to a complete partisan hack.

[Jim Sagle]

13. He doesn't CARE about winning. He never did.

He's all about destroying the Democratic Party. Same as he's ever been.

[oasis]

25. I wouldn't be surprised if he went third party on us.(eom)

[arewenotdemo]

52. Obama? No way (in hell).

[oasis]

55. Obama would use the excuse that "The Movement" was bigger than party politics.

He would have to put his loyalty to the Democratic Party aside to "follow the will of the people". You gotta admit, Obama's very good at slinging around loads of "inspirational" bullcrap.

It wouldn't be that much of a leap for an overly ambitious personality like Barack to fill the Nader void.

[Tom Rinaldo]

65. I think this is extremely unlikely

The same was once speculated about Howard Dean and he went on to become DNC Chair.

We can agree or disagree whether Obama plays hardball in the Primaries, but I fully expect him to be a team player for the General Election. Clinton also. Legitimate concerns revolve more over what wounds will need to be healed on either and/or both sides before the Novmember contest.

[oasis]

83. Obama has a jumbo sized ego, like that of Nader. Dean seems more of a team player.(eom)

[CRH]

73. I personally don't have a dog in this hunt, but, ...

I have had the same thoughts myself. I am troubled by where the base behind him originated. Some group that has been able to take a first term Senator and cast him as a viable candidate, makes me very curious. How long was he a senator before making his speech at the National Convention? What kind of clout does that take? His rise in the party has been meteoric, is this all self made influence through use of his 'charisma'?

I see him on many issues actually right of Hillary, and he often seems to pander to an ideological right vote when he praises Bush I and uses Reagan's name when talking of change. It is as though he is trying to cultivate republican and right leaning independents within his voter base.

There is a lot of egotism and not a small amount of power from organized political insiders thrusting this campaign forward. Will they accept coming close but not winning, or will the core insiders go for it all as an independent? I have to admit, the thought has crossed my mind.

If he loses the primary fight, will he feel entitled by his heady experience of having been a contender, and perhaps try to wrestle a third party win with an Obama/Liberman ticket?

[oasis]

84. I don't see a third party challenge in 2008. Obama's party will go after Hillary in 2012.

Count on it.

[dionysus]

54. what a bullshit, unhinged post.

holy cow you hate that guy... bitter cause edwards won't win a single state much?

[anamandujano]

68. That idea just crept into my mind while reading this thread.

If he somehow manages to get the nod to run, he will lie down and let the pukes run over him.

If the pukes let him go on to the presidency, he may well function as the final nail in the coffin for our country.

[sandnsea]

20. It's in response to these Reagan lies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/23/clinton-sc-ad-stretches-o_n_82871.html

I really don't know how you can think he has gone too far after everything Hillary has done. He just continues to tell the truth, she will say anything and she won't change anything. That's precisely why nobody should be supporting her.

[Skwmom]

41. Burning bridges? It's the Clintons who are burning bridges.

[paulk]

59. I would argue that the Clinton's own the bridges

Hillary is the establishment candidate, isn't she?

She's the one who's winning the Democratic vote - with much of Obama's support coming from independents and even Republicans.

Obama is running an "outsider" campaign.

[Andromeda]

9. Obama is desperate to win,

and he will deploy any tactic to destroy Hillary Clinton. If that means lying about her record and casting aspersions about her character then, so be it.

This man, Obama, is no nice man.

[hayu_lol]

14. Obviously SC is becoming a litmus test on the rest of the southern...

primaries. It is the first primary in the south. Instead of just watching whats going on, our two largest groups of supporters, maybe all three groups of supporters, are spending their time pointing fingers at each other and trying to join the 'zinger' hall of fame.

Almost all groups were friendly in Iowa. A bit less so in NH and apparently quite bazarre in Nevada. Michigan passed sort of under the radar since they had a problem there.

My feeling is that a lot of the rough stuff is being caused by the GOP and not by our own candidates and their supporters. Keep that one in mind. They have done it before and most surely will be doing it again.

Pretty hard, not being on the ground in SC, to separate the truth from all the stories we are hearing. Maybe we just need to be a bit more patient, keep our eyes and ears open, and to some extent, tone down our attacks on each other here.

[ellisonz]

26. Project much?

[pampango]

28. It's a good thing that the Clintons would never those types of things.

For better or worse, Obama is a babe in the woods when it comes to hardball politics.

[PADemD]

34. Oh, and Hillary and Bill aren't out to destroy Obama?

[vssmith]

36. Afro-Americans may see the Clintons attacking one of their own

I don't think Blacks will vote for R's in the general but if HRC is nominated they may stay home. Bill may help his wife in the short run and hurt her in the long run.

[Strelnikov_]

44. Clinton is desperate to win,

and she will deploy any tactic to destroy Barack Obama. If that means lying about his record and casting aspersions about his character then, so be it.

This woman, Clinton, is no nice lady.

[Beacool]

15. The ad is disgusting!!!!

He'll definitely win in SC, but will lose in some key states. Hillary was in NJ tonight and the support here was overwhelming. Bob Menendez and every mayor from Hudson County (with one exception) was at the rally. She did great, delivered a fiery speech about what she would do as president and looked stunning up close. I got to shake her hand twice, when she came in and when she left.

As for Obama, he can try to trash her all he wants but she'll be our nominee!!!

[desi]

66. Way to go Beacool

"As for Obama, he can try to trash her all he wants but she'll be our nominee!!!"

Thanks..K&R

[Azathoth]

16. "You can't believe a word she says because she will do anything for power"

Sounds about right.

[Auntie Bush]

48. Ah, I see you're a copy cat and know how to plagiarize.

How about thinking for yourself and posting something you can back up with facts. Not just copy the same old meme that gets flushed around in the toilet as if it's a known fact. Think of something original with truth behind every comment and you'll be a better thinking person for it.

[andyrowe]

17. Countering slime with the truth.

Maybe to Rove this comes off as "scorched earth" but many are glad to see him put his foot down on this Billary nonsense.

[Azathoth]

18. Pointing out that Hillary is a liar = "scorched earth", criticizing her = "sexism"

It's eerie the way the Hillary foot soldiers are always on the same page, sort of like Rush's dittoheads.

[andyrowe]

24. They've given up Hope and adopted Turd Blossom Tactics.

Or I should say incorporated into their old school arsenal.

They long ago figured if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Let's BEAT 'em.

[VotesForWomen]

27. yeah, i've heard lots of people crying sexism but nobody crying racism. not. nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

47. It's earie that you and others call those who dare to be critical "footsoldiers"

You become what you claim to critize. You can't allow anyone to not agree to your world view about your preferred candidate and support Hillary instead without them automatically being insulted as being a "foot soldier for Hillary" and a near clone to dittoheads. And I see THAT pattern repeat all the time here. More people need to look in the mirror more often here before hurling vile charges without caring whether they are true. And yes I am talking about you now in this case.

For starters, here are some of the posts that I have made in the last 48 hours that have defended or been suportive of Barack Obama and/or his supporters, have been critical of one or more supporters of Hillary Clinton, or have admitted to problems with Hillary Clinton's campaign:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4178231&mesg_id=4178275

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4177050&mesg_id=4177663

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4176367&mesg_id=4176512

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4169238&mesg_id=4169304

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4168244&mesg_id=4168795

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4160788&mesg_id=4160901

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4157949&mesg_id=4158120

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4157039&mesg_id=4157166

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4155574&mesg_id=4155662

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4151936&mesg_id=4155520

There are lots more like that over the last few days and going way back if you care to do a search.

You just made a broad sweeping and totally one sided charge. It reflects on you not me. And I suggest you at least entertain the thought that a case can be made for the candidate supporters shoe being on the other foot.

[LeftCoast]

19. Looks like someone's getting a wee bit desperate.

It's sad to see how far he's fallen.

[cali]

21. I hate that ad and I hate the ad that Clinton's running

they're both playing scorched earth politics. It's not just Barack, it's your candidate too. I'm this close to taking off my Obama avatar and becoming uncommitted again. I'm just sad about the whole awful mess.

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. Both camps are certainly playing very hard ball

But only one camp consistently gets accused of it, especially by the press but here for the greater part also. I fully agree that this has become a sorry mess.

[dkf]

22. Obama is expecting more mudslinging from Hillary.

He is reminding people of how she plays fast and loose with the truth so that when they hear all this, they will understand they can't take it at face value.

I wish he didn't have to do this, but I see that it is necessary.

[Lucinda]

23. I'm not sure they made a good decision with the ad

Clinton is currently running an ad...with audio clips of Obama saying “The Republicans WERE the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years.”

So the listener will be hearing ads against Clinton, saying she is lying, and then hearing Obama's actual comment in her ad, and deciding for themselves if he was being critical of Republicans or not.

Risky stuff.

[flpoljunkie]

57. It would not do for Hillary's disingenuous ad attacking Obama to go unanswered. Haven't we learned

that from the "Swiftboat" ads?

[Lucinda]

60. I never said he shouldn't respond. I just dont think the response they made was the best choice.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Good ad

The Clintons are getting what they deserve. Their endless rhetorical game playing ensures they'll have trouble uniting the Democratic party, let alone the country.

This is what Democrats are signing on for; call it a failure of the imagination. The Clintons already had eight years in the White House and they left the party in a shambles by the end of it. All the signs are there for a repeat performance. Fuck 'em.

[LandOLincoln]

30. How could you forget to mention what a shambles the country was

in at the end of Clinton's term as well?

:sarcasm:

[BeyondGeography]

32. Of course, everyone was pleased with us

Gore won by a landslide, right?

And here's how bad it was for the Dems:

==Bill Clinton was the first two-term Democratic president since F.D.R. and was enormously popular — and yet at the end of eight years in office, there were fewer Democratic senators, fewer Democratic congressmen, fewer Democratic governors, fewer state legislators, and the party was in debt. You can be regarded as a charismatic president, and yet it doesn’t translate into structure.==

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/magazine/25WWLNQ4.t.html

The Clintons are bad news for Democrats. Keep cheering anyway.

[KittyWampus]

45. that's right, Clinton did NOTING to reverse the creep of corporate fascism.

[paulk]

56. do you really think this argument will resonate with Democrats?

This is Naderite crap. It's the crap we were hearing in 1999 from the left wing of the party. No one, outside of that small group gives a shit about "corporate fascism".

Bill Clinton has an 89% approval rating among Democrats. Attack him at your peril.

The naivite of the Obama camp is disheartening.

[Levgreee]

31. I thought it was completely fine until...

the end, when the guy said "she'll say anything, and change nothing". The rest of the ad stuck to the issues, but that was hyperbole.

Still, it's not as bad as sending out fliers saying a candidate isn't pro-choice, or will put a 10 trillion tax hike on the middle class.

[eridani]

33. Neither will ever bother with substance

If they ever got specific about "change" TO WHAT and "hope" FOR WHAT, that might irritate the big money people who have decided that there are only two Dem candidates.

[Perry Logan]

35. I think he should try crying. It's his only goddam shot.

[Armstead]

37. Have you heard the Clinton ad against Obama? -- THAT was scurrilous

The Clinton's ran an ad that totally twisted Obama's words about Reagan and the GOP.

The ad deliberatly and directly implied that Obama supported GOP programs -- and listed them.

It was the closest thing to a Swift Boat attack I've seen from a Democrat.

I'm not an Obama supporter, but I was infuriated when I heard the Clinton ad. It would have made Rove proud.

So I think Obama has EVERY right to run a counter ad setting the record straight.

[Adelante]

38. The earth was scorched in Nevada having been lightly toasted in NH

And both came after a long period in a stealth mission to turn Obama into the "colored" candidate rather than the candidate for Americans. I see that ad as not even close, not even remotely close. It's in response to the Clintons' scorched earth policy on Obama. He wasn't going to be their punching bag forever, nor should he be. The ad is fairly unobjectionable, to my eye, as far as attack ads go, and attempts to correct the distortions of his words for the most part. I would like a negative approach not to have to continue and I would like him to get back to his change message, primarily, as he criticizes her record on issues, her record on such things as the war. But he was left with little choice but to shove her down, if he wanted to survive, (she was already in the mud, in my opinion). The Clintons play rough, that's what they do. No return fire? No way. Now, adjust their tactics, something can be worked out, I would think, because I would also think Obama wants to run with the campaign he started with, not the reactive one he's had to take up recently.

I think you have this wrong, Tom:

Couple this with Obama's comments that hint at his support not all being transferable to Clinton if he doesn't win the nomination and ask yourself who is really undermining the chance for Party unity after our primaries are over?

He was talking about his draw on rural voters in Nevada. Reagan Democrat types, moderate Republicans, convinced to vote Democratic. Could she do the same? That was how I took it. It wasn't a hint of withholding his Democratic supporters in some way from the nominee.

[Skwmom]

40. Barack cannot force people to vote for Hillary. And one thing I am certain of, no matter

how much of a plea Obama would make to support Hillary, many would turn a deaf ear. I've lost count of the number of people who will absolutely not vote for Clinton in the general election.

[Adelante]

42. That's something else

Barack was not talking about anything like that, the way I read it. That's an individual decision. He was talking about voters who had voted for him in the Nevada rurals specifically, that type of voter, who comes out to vote for him, but may not for Hillary in the GE. He's not talking about making a plea for or against Hillary among his supporter base, should she be the nominee. If that happens, though, I do think he will support her against a Republican, including drumming up his own supporters. Whether they would follow or not, some will, some won't.

[Tom Rinaldo]

53. On Obama positioning himself to be the "Black Candidate" in South Carolina

He is doing that in order to win that primary. It is an advantage to him in South Carolina. It wasn't an advantage to him in Iowa or New Hampshire. There he wanted it downplayed. Had Obama won NH, or even Nevada, his strategy in regards to SC might have played out differently. But he has to win South Carolina to stay alive to fight another day so he is playing hard to win there, and yes that means playing the race card - if what playing the race card means is calling attention to his race to win votes. Pay attention to what Obama and his surrogates actually say and do inside South Carolina and not just the media going on about Bill Clinton. Barack Obama is consciously appealing for Black support in South Carolina by allowing an emphasis on race there to set the tone.

After Obama wins South Carolina, and in his current national media buys, Obama will tone down any overt focus on his race again, because after South Carolina it would not be advantageous for Obama to present himself as the Black Candidate. But realistically there will be no "after South Carolina" for Obama if he doesn't win there first, so now indeed he is acting like the Black candidate there voluntarily, while his surrogates attack the Clintons for concentrating on race which is actually a convenient way for Obama to keep the focus fixed on race before the vote in South Carolina.

The Clintons resorted to hard ball against Obama after Edwards and Obama settled on a campaign strategy this summer that played up and emphasized her negatives. Bill in particular became frustrated that the media was not performing the traditional "vetting" function on Obama that it normally does in a Presidential campaign, instead settling on giving him their "celebrity" template treatment instead. The media was willing to endlessly repeat the attack meme that they were complicit in helping create about how "unlikable" Hillary was, but not give attention to any aspect of Obama's biographical story that might cause him to lose support in the general election. The Clinton campaign clearly went too far in a negative manner in some instances in response to their frustration. I am on record here at DU saying so at the time.

Obama learned the trick of playing the victim card perfectly (and I am not disputing that he was often a victim when he played it). But he learned how to globalize instances of unfair treatment of him into an anti-Clinton mantra that fed off of long standing media hostility toward the Clintons. And in the atmosphere created he managed to land a number of low blows also by overly spinning some comments by Bill or Hillary Clinton out of context into affronts on African Americans and Martin Luther King Jr. specifically. That strengthened a racial backlash against Hillary in South Carolina. A truce was called for, probably with behind the scene pressure from leading Democrats being applied to both Clinton and Obama, and agreed to at the Nevada debate.

Since that truce was agreed to it has not fully been put in place, and I think Obama bears some blame for that and I choose to say so now because the conventional wisdom around here is that Clinton is always the one to blame for the ugliness, never Obama. Obama's refusal to distance himself from the racial subtext language of the spanish radio ad that was broadcast on his behalf by a Nevada union was just as shameful as anything the Clintons have done regarding race. That was injecting a race card into a new dimension of the Democratic contest. It was high profile Obama supporter Joseph Lowery who thundered in the South that Blacks who express doubt that Obama can win because of racism in America are exhibiting "a slave mentality". It is hard to find a more overt use of "the race card" to influence an election than that was. Atlanta's Mayor just twisted Bill Clinton's words whereby he called Obama's claim to be an unbroken fierce opponent of the Iraq war "a fairy tale" into Bill Clinton calling the hopeful aspirations that Barack Obama evokes the fairy tale instead. That was a very racially inflammatory twisting of Clinton's words.

And in my comments above I did not say Obama hinted he would withhold his Democratic supporters in some way from the nominee. Your read is a fair one of his literal comments. I tried to be careful with my wording and that is why I used the word "hint". However what Obama chose not to say in response to the question asked him, to me is also telling. Phrasing counts and in combination with the type of full frontal attack on Hillary's character and integrity which this ad embraces - an attack meme that the Republican attack machine has been planting, watering, and carefully tending to for 15 years against the Clintons, Obama left an emphasis on why it understandably could be hard for anyone other than hard core yellow dog Democrats to consider supporting someone like Hilary Clinton. I made fuller comments that partially defend Obama along the lines you state regarding his Nevada comments, in this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4176367&mesg_id=4176512

[Skwmom]

75. Newsflash. Obama is black. By succeeding in Iowa he didn't have

to do anything, he'd proven to blacks that he was a viable candidate which meant BIG TROUBLE for the Clintons in SC. Once they viewed him as viable, the Clintons knew that his numbers would rise in South Carolina.

Get a clue. It is the Clintons playing the SC race card b/c they are trying to marginalize him as the black candidate. They are also trying to paint him as that trouble making black who is causing so much trouble to the citizens of South Carolina. Which was the reason for Clintons comments about Barack this morning, and his laughing as he went out the door (he knows exactly what he is doing). I think he's also trying to get some of the black vote in SC to turn away from Obama by blaming him for stirring things up.

About playing the victim, have you been listening to Clinton lately? People are outraged at the Clintons NOT because Obama is perfectly playing the victim card but b/c some of us still have enough decency left that we can be outraged by such vile behavior.

I'd like to ask the Clintons and their supporters - have you no decency? You talk about how bad the freepers are. Maybe you need to take a good long look in the mirror.

[Tom Rinaldo]

77. You ignored the specifics I raised regarding the SC campaign

So I am not at all confident you and I can persue a constructive dialog on this. If you are interested in how why and when I saw SC in or out of play you can read my comments on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4183159&mesg_id=4183902

I don't think you can even find a single DU post by me that outright trashs Obama. I question some of his actions and I question some of his qualifications some times, but I overall think well of the man and have said many genuinely positive things about him on DU. I have also defended Obama here on a number of occaisions. I am comfortable looking in a mirror. Others can answer that same question about themselves.

[Skwmom]

39. Do you honestly believe this crap? The Clintons have

engaged in the scorched earth campaign. The Clintons lie about Obama - he responds and he's the one engaging in a scorched earth campaign? The Clintons play the race card, the Obama camp keeps a list to show a pattern and they are the ones playing the race card?
What kind of logic is that? The Clintons might fool some people with this b.s. but they won't fool the MAJORITY of Americans. How Clark can associate himself with such a despicable campaign is beyond me. It's really been hard to explain to my 12 year old son how Clark, the man he handed out fliers for in the 04 primary, can support this disgusting, reprehensible behavior. In not speaking out his silence is deafening.

Newsflash - the Clintons will say anything to get elected and will change nothing. To create change you have to be able to unite people. The Clintons divide:


Blacks and whites
Blacks and Hispanics
Unions
Unions and their Union Members
Democrats

Divide and Conquer. That's what Bush and Clinton have done to this country.

[Strelnikov_]

43. Good

He's fighting back.

[babylonsister]

50. He'd be nuts not to try and defend himself against "2" people/1 candidate

who've been doing the same to him. I don't see a problem with this.

[OneBlueSky]

51. this is fast becoming a MAD (mutually assured destruction) campaign . . . n/t

.

[chimpymustgo]

62. Go Edwards. The real campaign of hope and change. See his wonderful new video here

The campaign needs $65,000 today to run this awesome new spot in South Carolina:

See the advertisement and contribute here:

http://www.johnedwards.com/watch/native-son-movie /

(thanks to DU'er Kerry2008 - got the info link & from her post)

[Generator]

61. Frankly I started liking Obama much more

when he started taking on Hillary. Months ago. Anyone that is going to take on these Republicans in the future needs to be able to take on Clinton. She AND Bill will say anything to get elected. They, along with Mark Penn and a few other idiot "advisors" have sold out the Democratic party. GO Obama! (oh yeah I'm an Edwards supporter)

[Levgreee]

63. Wow, I just heard Hilary's add, that his ad was a RESPONSE to, and now I dont care

he mostly kept to the truth, and Hillary's radio ad was just despicable. And he waited to air his radio ad, until Hilary struck. That counts for something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24dJYqhqiVw&eurl=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/01/clintonobama_radio_ad_wars.html

[Tom Rinaldo]

70. Hillary's ad is specific to claims about specific Obama comments

Obama's ad intentionally goes the global route instead. After the primaries are over it is much easier to patch over hard words contained in quotes over individual controversies than it is to explain away a sweeping comment like "Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected". Especially if Hillary Clinton is campaigning for President at that point as our candidate against the Republicans.

[Levgreee]

72. What? Saying Obama supports all the Republican ideas over Dem...

is DEFINITELY global. It was a GIGANTIC claim about the political views of Obama.

Ah, I get what you are saying. I don't think it's anything that damaging though, the Repubs will go after much more effective/controversial things.

[Tom Rinaldo]

74. No it was not global in the sense I meant

It was contained to a dust up over specific comments. A huge dust up over the meaning of comments with very serious implications yes, but character and integrity were not frontally attacked. When this contest is over a way can be found for them both the agree, for public consumption at least, on what really was going on in America during "the Reagan revolution" regardless of which one of them comes out ahead in the primaries. It can be chalked up as a "misunderstanding" or "careless use of words" etc. The lasting sound bite from this Obama ad will be harder to put to rest.

[anamandujano]

64. He always has to explain what he meant by a statement or

a vote. His followers attempt to explain whatever of his actions don't quite resonate with potential voters.

I was reading the thread concerning his statement about end of life patients. The endless "He meant this" and "what he was really saying" posts from his supporters made me wonder if he has ever said or done anything that doesn't need a fine tuned explanation.

It's wondrous that he never manages to be transparent although that is one of the words often put forward by his groupies.

[ecstatic]

67. I wish they'd refrain from this--it'll only hurt us in the GE nt

[Levgreee]

69. in my opinion, Obama had to respond

maybe other people see it differently, but Hillary's ad could've hurt him a lot among radio listeners, if he didn't clear it up.

[Tom Rinaldo]

71. I fully agree that he had to respond. I won't suggest otherwise n/t

[crawfish]

87. Only if Clinton wins.

Then we might be screwed anyway.

[Barack_America]

76. Aren't the names in the title backwards?

No?

Meh. Whatever.

[AtomicKitten]

78. Obama has done nothing that puts him anywhere in the same ballpark of scorched earth

where the Clintons reside. The Clintons have demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will, in fact, do and say anything to win. Turning a blind eye to that is what is tearing the Democratic Party apart.

[goodgd_yall]

79. Same-o, same-o

This is what candidates do. BFD.

[Medusa]

80. Obama is using the scortched earth policy?

Like hell. That is ALL the Clintons. They will mow down anyone in their way. And if it kills the party, it kills the party.

[GoldieAZ49]

82. If the party nominates Clintons it deserves the fallout

the Clintons always use the politics of personal destruction. It is time for their political destruction.

[GoldieAZ49]

81. Speaking Truth to Power

"You can't believe a word she says because she will do anything for power" is the God's Honest TRUTH.

All anyone has to do is look at Hillary or Bill and their record. It has always been about political power. Poll based politics. The MSM is doing just that.

Paint Hillary with her own brush, there will be no change with her as the candidate.

Good for Obama! If Hillary wins the nomination he should run Independent, Independent of the Clintons and all they represent.

He has my vote!

[crawfish]

86. It's incredibly sad that this is necessary.

But, it's probably the only response to the Clinton attack machine.