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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:45 PM
Original message
Bill Clinton insults women and African-Americans!!
He says he expects blacks to vote for Obama just cause he's black and that women will vote for Hillary cause she's a woman. How insulting is that? Isn't he insulting the intelligence of supporters for both candidates? That's a very dumb move by Bill and it will backfire. Even if he thought that, he shouldn't even have said it. He's basically saying voters are too dumb to vote on issues, so they pick superficial qualities like race and gender. :puke:
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Quote please.
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NOVA_Dem Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. link
"As far as I can tell, neither Senator Obama nor Hillary have lost votes because of their race or gender. They are getting votes, to be sure, because of their race or gender — that's why people tell me Hillary doesn't have a chance of winning here," Clinton said.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5isOFwdbq0tsqatW6vJpkDRTI1gMgD8UC04G02
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. You seem to have an error in your logic.
He said some people vote for race/gender, which I think is unarguable. Not that that is what all or most women or people of color will do.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
40. I'm a 'people of color', kinda on the beige side.
'people of color' - did he really Say that or is that your interpretation?
if he wants to talk about people of color I have to question that red raging doofus face he has on lately.
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NOVA_Dem Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
66. You asked for a link b/c you didn't want to believe he said it.
Now you're trying to bring up some BS "logic" argument that is irrelevant to the conversation b/c the issue is whether he said it or not.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. that's an absolutely insane remark by Clinton...
He's normally too smart to say something that's so offensive of the electorate.

It may be correct in some ways but in essence he's acknowleging that people are voting with prejudice.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Try reading it again. It's not offensive.
Some people ARE voting based on race or gender. Duh.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. He is acknowledging what people and polls are saying--the black vote will go to O>


"As far as I can tell, neither Senator Obama nor Hillary have lost votes because of their race or gender. They are getting votes, to be sure, because of their race or gender — that's why people tell me Hillary doesn't have a chance of winning here," Clinton said.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5isOFwdbq0tsqatW6vJpk...
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
41. It's insane to note statistics?
WTF.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Link please
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hulklogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. And Senator Obama insults GLBT Americans
I say it's a wash
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. The Obama people have racheted up the Hate
in the Blogs. And they're airing that soppy commercial over and over.
I wonder if Hillary is gaining on him in SC?
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
53. Here's a straw poll
that has Hillary leading in SC. Not scientific, but interesting.

Hillary Clinton: 45%
Barack Obama: 33%

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/tag/Democrats/
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah. He's campaigning his ass off for our first woman candidate
I'm so offended.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Your ass must be sore by now. All this pulling & so little time.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. You've convinced me!
I think it was the puke smiley that sealed the deal.

I'm 100% for Obama now!

Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican. Hillary is a liar. Hillary will do anything to win. Hillary is really a Republican.

--p!
It's better than 'Nyam Myoho Renge Kyo'!
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
60.  Boy, does that bring back memories... LOL! n/t
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. I dont find it an insult
they are both fine candidates.
If you have two candidates with very similar positions, whats wrong with that criteria.
Its not as if, he has said they will chose their own even though that person is inferior.

Its even reasonable that people want to share part of history by election the first black or first female.

I'm prioritizing different issues so I'm sticking with the non-exciting candidate.
But I'd happily support either Obama or Clinton if they had the same priorities.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is a concerted, deliberate tactic..
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 11:58 PM by TwoSparkles
...on the part of the Clintons to position Obama as the "black candidate".

Bill is not insisting that people are dumb. He's positioning--via the media--Obama as the "black candidate".

I would have NEVER believed that this would have happened to this campaign, while
I watched it all play out in Iowa.

Never in a million years would I think that Bill and Hillary Clinton could be
so manipulative and down-right dirty.

Is there any doubt that this is what's happening?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. November, 2007
Michelle Obama: "Black America Will Wake Up And Get It"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/12/michelle-obama-black-am_n_72268.html
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. So, in response to a reporter asking Michelle Obama,
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 12:25 AM by TwoSparkles
why blacks weren't supporting her husband, Michelle said that "Blacks will wake up and get it".

So frickin what.

Answering a reporter's specific question about why the African American community has not
climbed on the Obama campaign bus--Michelle, in effect, said that soon they would.

There is a difference between answering a reporter's specific question about African
American supporters and why they aren't choosing Obama, and the Clinton's incendiary
comments that have ignited a firestorm.

When Hillary tried to make the point that you need a President to enact real "change", not
just someone who "makes speeches". She used Johnson and MLK as her examples and in the
process propped up a white President and appeared to minimize MLK's role in the civil rights
movement.

GEE! It's so surprising that people starting talking about race after that! :eyes:
I mean really----appearing to minimize MLK...no problem there! The media onslaught
was never-ending.

Hillary Clinton knew EXACTLY what her comment would do.

I might add, the Iowa caucuses were NOT about race. Race was never an issue. The Iowa
contest was all about agendas, ideas and plans. Each candidate was leveraging their
experience, plans and vision. Race was NEVER at part of it. The Iowa population is
97 percent white. They didn't care about race. They voted for the best person and
Obama won.

So, the Michelle Obama comment that you posted is a bit irrelevant. I don't even
recall that story. You are suggesting that her comment made this contest about
race, when it was completely inconsequential and barely remembered.

Hillary realized, after losing Iowa, that part of their strategy had to be positioning
Obama as the "black candidate".

It's obvious.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. If team Obama wans to try to cast him as the black candidate AND the candidate who transcends
race, it's not gonna' work. One or the other pitch will fail - or both will.

And if Obama is too much of an amateur to handle Hillary, he's too much of an amateur to handle the GE.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Many here do not like it, but Obama started..
the race card bs via his wife.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. I think Obama is handling Hillary very well...
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 12:48 AM by TwoSparkles
I think Obama clearly stood up to her in that debate and demonstrated
that he is a formidable opponent.

He unexpectedly zinged her with that Walmart comment, which caused
her to return the favor. He commanded that debate and got her
to react.

Obama also demonstrated that Hillary lied about what Obama said
about Regan. Obama never said the Republicans have "good ideas".
He said the Republicans "were the party of ideas", and that's how
Reagan changed "the trajectory of America".

Hillary is a liar.

I might add...yeah, it's got to be frustrating handling the Clinton
attack machine, in the same way that Kerry found it frustrating
constantly dealing with Cheney suggesting that a vote for Kerry
means that Al Queda attacks us tomorrow. Dealing with the Clintons
must be similar to dealing with Bush painting Kerry as an elitist
and a flip flopper.

You're actually proud of the Clinton attack machine? You somehow
believe that dealing with their bullshit is the true test of who
isn't "an amateur" and who should be President?

This kind of degrading, manipulating, off-track, childish nonsense from the
Clintons demonstrates their inability to win on Hillary's record and ideas.
They need to fuck with people and pander to the lowest sensibilities of the
American people---to win.

The true test of a person's readiness for the Presidency--is in their
character, their experience, their ability to lead and inspire and their
concern for the American people.

It's not about who is left standing after you're torn to pieces--your
fellow Democrats--with lies, distortions, manipulations and dirty tricks.

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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. You're full of shit.
Shit and amateurish feelings. :-)
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. It doesn't surprise me...
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 01:02 AM by TwoSparkles
that someone, such as yourself, who lacks any sort of imagination or insight,
would end up supporting a vacuous candidate who has to lie,
cheat and steal to win what she feels is her birthright.

I would be disappointed in Obama if he played dirty. There
are so many opportunities to do so, with the Clintons.

All he would have to do, is show up to one of the debates
smoking a cigar and wearing a beret.

I may be full of shit, but at least I'm not so warped and cynical--
that I consider bullshit, sorority-girl behavior as normal behavior
for adults.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Oh please. Obama is a pretender, spouting hope but spreading dissent.
And I wish Obama would take you up on your suggestion so you could see what would come of it.

Again, foolish and amateurish.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Give me one example of...
Obama "spreading dissent".

Please.

I need to hear this.

You think you can spout off lies, and that people won't notice.

I'm noticing.

Please tell me how Obama "spread dissent"?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. Sorry - meant "spreading divisiveness".
I was heading to bed when I wrote that.

Still want examples?
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. I double that.
No, I triple that!
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
54. Me thinks you doth protest too much.
:freak:
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
63. Catapulting the propaganda again, are you?
"When Hillary tried to make the point that you need a President to enact real "change", not
just someone who "makes speeches". She used Johnson and MLK as her examples and in the
process propped up a white President and appeared to minimize MLK's role in the civil rights
movement."


That's not what she said, and that's not what she did, no matter how you try to spin it.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. That is EXACTLY what happened...
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 09:57 AM by TwoSparkles
It is fact.

I don't see you trying to offer an explanation---because there really is none
that favors Hillary.

She had been going after Obama on his "speeches" for some time. She repeated
her talking point, for several days--about experience trumping speeches.

Hillary's MLK remarks were an attempt to illustrate her point--that it took a
President to get it done.

Obviously, you are not remembering the context of her comments and what was happening
in the campaign.

Why? What's your spin on it? What do you think she was trying to say?

I'm looking at her words. What are you looking at?

Hillary supporters just can't own up to the fact that her comments were
incredibly unfortunate. I have been very reasonable and fair about what she said.
I don't think it was a racist comment. I don't think Hillary Clinton is racist.
I think she made an incredibly unfortunate remark--in her attempt to underscore her
supposition that it 'takes a president and not just words' to get it done.

Hillary Clinton is a smart woman. She knew the comment would be controversial.

She needs that to win. She came in third in Iowa, on her record and experience.
The only way she can win is to destroy Obama.




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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Yep
DU does not want to hear this.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Obama is proving to be
one of the most divisive dem candidates I can remember. So much for his message of unity....

Hold on to your hats folkes.....this is going to be a bumpy ride........
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Unity is just a nice idea for the Obama campaign - but once the boat starts to sink its the first
thing over the side.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. Yeah....I'm starting to notice that, big time.
I used to think he was a nice guy, but he's starting to look like an egotistical, opportunist that doesn't really care about our country......
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. My take on him now is he's a little prince who was raised to believe everything
he did was special and precious. They don't hold up well when challenged.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Hint. Obama is positioning himself to be the Black candidate in South Carolina
He is doing that in order to win that primary. It is an advantage to him in South Carolina. It wasn't an advantage to him in Iowa or New Hampshire. Had he won NH or Nevada, South Carolina would not have mattered as much as it now does to him. But he has to win South Carolina to stay alive to fight another day so he is playing to win there, and yes that means playing the race card - if what playing the race card means is calling attention to his race to win votes. Start paying attention to what Obama and his surragates actually say and do inside South Carolina sometime and don't just listen to the media spin about Bill Clinton. Barack Obama is appealing for Black support there.

After he wins South Carolina, as well as in national media buys, Obama will tone down any overt focus on his race again, because after South Carolina it would not be advantageous for Obama to present himself as the Black Candidate. But realistically there will be no "after South Carolina" for Obama if he doesn't win there first, so now indeed he is acting like the Black candidate there voluntarily, while attacking the Clintons for concentrating on race which is actually a convenient way for Obama to keep the focus on race before the vote in South Carolina.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Yep...
of course he is....
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
45. and this is what the obama campaign does not want to happen
when the media looks at the votes and who voted. Of course if the media does its job they will be reporting how big a % pf blacks got over HRC and John Edwards. It will be seen as obama is the candidate of the blacks and hrc and edwards will have a high high majority of white votes.......

Earlier today some obama folks were trying to start crap by saying it would be the clintons that would force the media to report how strong a turnout the blacks had in voting for obama.....this is getting too silly.....
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Like it's a new thing....
the media has always reported it. I'll tell ya, I get more disgusted everyday with all this shit. Here's one vote he'll never get.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
52. A shrewd analysis
about a Machiavellian candidate---Barack Hussein Obama.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
64. No, I have no doubt at all. One of the campaigns was
paying VERY close attention to Rove's successful strategy of attacking an opponent's strength.

Worked for Rove's team, just as it's working for Senator Obama's.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. Oh what a tangled web we weave...
You know the rest.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
16. Says a lot about bil clinton..
I'm a white woman in NY who is voting for Obama and a lot of us here are really excited about some honesty and trust getting back in our white house.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. But since that's not what he said, it says more about the liars accusing him.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Says a lot about your reading comprehension.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Ah the hilarys in lockstep.
bil clinton has been smearing and jeering Obama for weeks now and the Dem leaders have had to call him out on it..

Zip It, Bill!
Karen Russell
Tue Jan 22, 10:50 AM ET
snip~
Before Iowa, "Hillary the Inevitable" had the numbers, the machine and the name on her side in this race. Despite being the clear and unequivocal underdog, Obama built a grassroots campaign, brought in independents and got disillusioned Republicans to cross the aisle.

Obama starting gaining ground and closing the gap. That's when the "fun" started. That's when Hillary told reporters about her plans to attack Obama.

For months, we saw "the inevitable frontrunner" running a tight and disciplined campaign. Then as Obama rose in the polls, suddenly Hillary and her surrogates started dropping a series of "misunderstood" slurs. They fit a familiar pattern, "smear, play dumb, own up and apologize". Rinse, lather and repeat.

We are supposed to believe that as Obama gained ground on Clinton that it's just mere coincidence that Clinton surrogates painted Obama as a risky "shucking and jiving", "roll of the dice", "cocaine-loving", "drug-dealing", ";Reagan-loving", "closet-Muslim" , "fairytale-living", "establishment", "less black than President Clinton" "rookie"?

We are supposed to believe that these are isolated "mistakes". Remember these are the people who went after Senator Obama's kindergarten record and then tried play it off as a joke.

Now it appears that "Trasher-in-Chief" Bill is in charge of keeping the "fun" going. Apparently, the Clinton campaign figured out that having Hillary taking the cheap shots at her opponents made her less "likable".

It started with Clinton trashing Obama on the war. When a red-faced and angry Clinton twisted Obama's anti-war record calling it a "fairytale". However, according to the New York Times, "; a review of Mr. Obama's statements on Iraq since 2002 shows that he has opposed the war against Saddam Hussein consistently, calling it ''dumb'' and ''rash.'' "

All of the Clinton's huffing and puffing won't change the fact that Hillary Clinton voted for the war and that Obama has always been against it.

Then in Nevada, Clinton claimed that Obama was running ads "telling Republicans that they ought to just register as Democrats for a day so they can beat Hillary and go out and be Republicans next week and vote in the primary. Doesn't sound like the new politics to me."

This simply isn't true. Those ads don't exist. To many, the idea of getting Republicans to cross the aisle and become "Obama Republicans" is appealing. Remind me again, what is wrong with trying to woo independents and Republicans? Taylor Marsh seems to think there's something wrong with that.

Ms. Marsh, also ran with the Clinton exaggeration of voter intimidation, "New York Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign had a story it wanted to tell this week, so it turned to a friendly blogger. Taylor Marsh, who in the past has been paid by a union now backing Clinton, quickly ran with the story: Members of the Culinary Union were being intimidated to vote for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, whom the union endorsed last week. Under scrutiny, the story didn't exactly pan out. But no matter."

President Clinton went on to claim Obama said Republicans had all the good ideas, "Her principal opponent said that since 1992, the Republicans have had all the good ideas...I can't imagine any Democrat seeking the presidency would say they were the party of new ideas for the last 15 years. But it sounded good in Reno I guess...So now it turns out you can choose between somebody who thinks our ideas or better or the Republicans had all the good ideas."

The Clinton assertion that Obama said Republicans had "all the good ideas" just isn't true. Obama said the Republican challenged "conventional wisdom" and moved the country in a fundamentally different direction and that we Democrats can learn from that strategy. That people wanted optimism, clarity and to talk differently about issues and values. Obama pointed out that the unfortunately the Republican ideas promoted by this strategy were bad and wrong.

When Obama was asked how his being the nominee would help other Democrats get elected he said, "I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that, you know, Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. They felt like, you know, with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating and he tapped into what people were already feeling. Which is, people wanted clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamic and entrepreneurship that had been missing, alright? I think Kennedy, twenty years earlier, moved the country in a fundamentally different direction. So I think a lot of it just has to do with the times. I think we're in one of those times right now. Where people feel like things as they are going aren't working. We're bogged down in the same arguments that we've been having, and they're not useful. And, you know, the Republican approach, I think, has played itself out. I think it's fair to say the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last ten, fifteen years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom. Now, you've heard it all before. You look at the economic policies when they're being debated among the Presidential candidates and it's all tax cuts. Well, you know, we've done that, we tried it. That's not really going to solve our energy problems, for example. So, some of it's the times. And some of it's, I think, there's maybe a generation element to this, partly. In the sense that there's a, I didn't did come of age in the battles of the 60s. I'm not as invested in them. And so I think I talk differently about issues. And I think I talk differently about values. And that's why, I think we've been resonating with the American people."

Senator Clinton continued "the twist" of Obama's words during the debate. Why is Team Billary twisting the facts on Senator Obama? They are playing to win, truth be damned. Campaigning for his wife is one thing but continuing to trash Obama with misrepresentations is frankly disappointing. Daddy Bush didn't trash John McCain when McCain was running against Shrub. Clinton needs to rein it in. If Hillary can't control Bill or her surrogates, why do we believe she's ready to lead on day one?

Think about how the Clinton campaign responded to Bob Johnson's smear. When she was caught between a rock and a big donor, look how she responded.

First, they denied it was a smear and "took him on his word". Yeah, right. Unlike less powerful surrogates, they couldn't get Johnson to walk the plank. Finally, after Johnson was rightfully shamed into apologizing, Clinton conveniently flip-flopped claiming Johnson was "out of bounds". Hillary was for the smear before she was against it. It's familiar territory for her.

And, if it's true that Hillary is not campaigning in South Carolina, this is just the Clintons lowering expectations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080122/cm_huffpost/0... ;_ylt=AtDt1i93AQHVgpICphNm1Das0NUE

Tom Dashiell:

Daschle faults Bill Clinton's criticisms

"This is the same kind of tactic that Washington uses quite frequently," Daschle said. "I think it destroys the party. Ultimately, it divides us."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/177125,daschle-...



Maureen Dowd:

The Clinton's — or “the 2-headed monster,” as The New York Post dubbed the tag team that clawed out wins in New Hampshire and Nevada — always go where they need to go, no matter the collateral damage. Even if the damage is to themselves and their party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/opinion/23dowd.html?_...

Mike Papantonio:

http://www.goleft.tv/viewer.asp?v=928&c=1

DUers: Hillary's strategy: Either I get the nom, or we ALL go down in flames

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Leading Democrats to bill clinton"
"Prominent Democrats are upset with the aggressive role that Bill Clinton is playing in the 2008 campaign, a role they believe is inappropriate for a former president and the titular head of the Democratic Party. In recent weeks, Sen. Edward Kennedy and Rep. Rahm Emanuel, both currently neutral in the Democratic contest, have told their old friend heatedly on the phone that he needs to change his tone and stop attacking Sen. Barack Obama, according to two sources familiar with the conversations who asked for anonymity because of their sensitive nature. Clinton, Kennedy and Emanuel all declined to comment."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/96385

Black leader to Bill Clinton: 'Chill' on ObamaStory Highlights
Bill Clinton increasingly attacking Barack Obama on campaign trail

Obama says former president is distorting his record

Rep. Jim Clyburn says Bill Clinton should tone down rhetoric on behalf of wife

South Carolina Democrats hold crucial primary Saturday

Next Article in Politics »

"House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, one of the most powerful African-Americans in Congress, weighed in on the feud Monday, saying it was time for Bill Clinton to watch his words.

Bill Clinton has delivered full-throated attacks on Obama in recent days, accusing him of overstating his opposition to the war in Ircomplaining about Obama's union supporters in the Nevada caucuses last weekend and blasting his relatively mild praise for Republican icon Ronald Reagan during a Las Vegas newspaper interview."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/22/clyburn-to-bil...



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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. I was listening to Black radio--so many callers were so proud to have a black
man they could vote--their time had come.

Nothing wrong with what they were saying--they are proud of obama and they will vote for him. ====because he is black. That is what Clinton is saying as far as I can tell.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
39. good-glad you found your candidate.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. Well, I'm convinced.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
29. oh for heavens sake--There will be some that do just that.
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oviedodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
32. HA HA! Bill just cost us the
White house!

I have said all along that Hillary will win the nomination, now she is screwed b/c her hubby (who won't shut up) has just caused the African American vote to wane for her. Sorry Clinton you can't win on the backs of just Latino and Women voters. You need a majority of the AA vote.

GET READY FOR 4 MORE YEARS OF NeoCon RULE!!!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. I smell Tombstone in your future.
:hi:
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
55. Oh, the smell of granite in the morning...
.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. I really can not follow what you are saying--can you expand please.
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oviedodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. It is very simple
If Clinton loses in SC, the Clinton's might say "Obama won because he got a lot of African American support" (more or less). Marginalizing that vote is not good. The Clinton's run the risk of losing the AA vote come November.

It is a well known fact that independents and men don't like Hillary, if McCain is the nominee independents will FLOCK to him like a magnet. This will make the AA vote VERY VERY important for Hillary, and if that vote is subdued b/c of Bill and this ridiculous in-fighting she will lose the south and without some support there, Dems won't win.

There was talk on CNN yesterday (I don't remember who) that if the Clintons damage themselves with African Americans, they may look at trying to put Obama on the ticket to secure that vote.

They better be careful.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. Thanks--I follow you this time and for the most part agree, But, the IP has his own
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 01:10 AM by rodeodance
twist on what bill said. The full quote is a few posts down and I really do not see what is wrong with what he said. as there are people who will vote for O. cause he black (and for Hill cause she is a women). see my post upstream about Black radio--I recall a few saying he is 'one of our own".
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. and yes, bill does need to be careful.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
42. same shit, different day
Hey Mac, how are the kids?

:hi:
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #42
56. really
Barrack Hussein Obama?

Who let the Fox news shill onto DU?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
58. Your obsession with Bill is disturbing n/t
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. It's part of how the Clintons win. Fools get obsessed with them and make crazy
stupid errors.
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MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
61. Are you insulted by Bill saying it?
I am insulted that people vote that way. he just stated the obvious. The real question should be why?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #61
67. I'd offer one reason WHY that I don't think is insulting.
If you consider 2 or3 candidates to be roughly equally satisfactory to you on positions, performance or whatever your measure, you've still got to decide based on some factor.

I don't think the value of having a black or female President is insignificant, and I don't suspect most other Dems do either, so that's a point in their favor. Different voters may come down differently based on which they think brings more value.

I don't think it's the overwhelming factor for most voters. But once you feel candidates are 95% the same, you're down to some very minor distinctions to make a choice.

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MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. If that is the case then fine
but to vote solely on race or gender is a little strange i think.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Of course. But I don't think that's happening.
Not in any statistically significant way.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
62. "They are getting votes, to be sure, because of their race or gender"
I don't think it's dumb to factor race and gender into the decision in a positive way. It's not superficial to want our first black or woman president -- it matters.
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