Come On Baby, And Do The Twist

[THUNDER HANDS]

Obama Statement: "I think we're in one of those times right now. Where people feel like things as they are going aren't working. We're bogged down in the same arguments that we've been having, and they're not useful. And, you know, the Republican approach, I think, has played itself out. I think it's fair to say the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last ten, fifteen years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom.

Clinton Twist: "I have to say, you know, my leading opponent the other day said that he thought the Republicans had better ideas than Democrats the last ten to fifteen years."

Obama Statement: "I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I mean, I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that, you know, Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it."

Clinton Twist: "He said President Reagan was the engine of innovation and did more, had a more lasting impact on America than I did. And then the next day he said, 'In the 90s the good ideas came out from the Republicans. Which it'll be costly maybe down the road for him because it's factually not accurate.”

-----

What's factually not accurate is what President Bill Clinton said.

I know he wants his wife to beat Obama. And it seems that unleashing the Big Dog seems to be working for the Clinton campaign.

Perhaps some voters are even touched by his passion.

But let's be clear -- Bill Clinton is spreading demonstrably false information.

There's winning ugly, and there's winning with honor.

Does it matter? Or is all fair in politics and war?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/obama-v-clinton.html

[MADem]

1. If Obama gets flummoxed and whining dealing with President and Senator Clinton

I would suspect Vladimir Putin will wipe the fucking FLOOR with the guy.

He's petulant, and weak. And it showed last night.

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. so if lying and distorting are signs of strength

then you must think Bush is the strongest president ever, right?

[MADem]

17. Oh, you can throw those "lying" and "distorting" charges all day if you would like.

There's plenty of that to go around, and I am uninterested in rehashing the same old partisan points for your amusement--they're all over this board if you desperately seek a 'fix' in that regard.

I'm also uninterested in getting involved in a discussion about how stupid or strong Bush is. That's NOT the discussion point here. It's the perception of the candidates on that stage at Myrtle Beach that is.

Here is the bottom line: Obama looked weak, flummoxed, petulant, whiney, unsteady, and .... really pissed off.

You could see it in his demeanor, you could hear it in his voice. That 'temper' ain't a pretty thing.

Edwards swooped in and swiped his Politics of Hope crown, and Obama won't get that back. Even if Edwards leaves the race, he's taking that crown with him.

Clinton hit him in his glass jaw with a right, hit him again with a left, knocked him over with a sharp elbow and kicked him in the ribs with a steel-toed high heel for the bulk of the contest.

He got his ass handed to him. That's the perception. You might not like it, but there it is.

[JackORoses]

19. Yet the crowd loved Obama and booed Clinton

Just like the American People will in the coming weeks.

The closer we look at the Family Clinton,
the less we will want them at the helm again.

[MADem]

27. Well, when the room is stuffed full of your supporters, of course

"the crowd" loved him.

But "the crowd" in living rooms across America saw a guy getting his ass handed to him.

You can win "the room" and lose the people watching on the box. Ask Howard "Scream" Dean--he can tell you all about how what happens in a room looks different on the tube.

What happened at that debate is what happened. The future is up for grabs, still, but that performance hurt BO badly.

[truedelphi]

21. I can't bear to watch the debates

But the clips presented by the M$M did make Clinton and Obama both look like little kids about to pummel each other in a school yard fight.

I am old enough to have seen rebroadcasts of the Kennedy and Nixon debates, where both men presented themelves as statesmen. They both were articluate, they both were laying out their policy visions. Both men looked above such school yard shennagins.

Right now the only one with such a conviction and desire to talk policy is Edwards. The other two really can't say much about policy visions, as let's face it -both H. and O. are OWNED by the corporate monies that are paying for each breath that they take on the campaign trail.

[Cha]

24. I see you're throwin' shit around to avoid

talkin' about the clintons' lack of a moral center.

[MADem]

26. Call it whatever you want. It's "the" discussion topic in the media today.

Obama didn't bring it. Edwards stole his Politics of Hope Crown. Clinton beat the crap out of him.

It's a Holy Trinity.

[Adelante]

2. It doesn't matter to the Clintons

That's the only thing that matters, unless election integrity means anything to anybody, which is obviously not the case.

[rinsd]

4. Oooo can I play?

Clinton Statement: "It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time--not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war. And you took that speech you're now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since.'" Mr. Clinton said at a town-hall style meeting Monday afternoon at Dartmouth College. "Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

Obama Twist: Bill Clinton called Obama a fairy tale....because he's black.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. last night at the debate he said

that you called my opposition to the war a fairy tale. He said nothing about the campaign.

[rinsd]

9. Umm his campaign has been using it.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/01/21/kingpolitics_0122.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/politics/11clyburn.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[Bluerthanblue]

12. this isn't his campaign-

it may be the voices of some who have acknowledged their support of him, but it is NOT HIM- or his "campaign".

There is a difference. If I held the comments of some of Hillary's supporters here against HER, that would be ridiculous.

And vice-versa.

[rinsd]

14. I love how Obama supporters are simultaneously naive & suspicious

[Bluerthanblue]

15. I don't love the way some posters seem to delight in labeling

people, and trying to dispose of the person, rather than discuss issues.

But I'm listening if you have something constructive to offer.

:hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

8. You forgot your quotation marks for the Obama twist-

or, uh.... has he ever actually said that?


Or was it the media, and individuals who claim to 'represent' him???

[Andy823]

10. Point for Clinton here!

Obama "twists" pretty good too! :toast:

[Cha]

25. Name one thing.

[Andy823]

28. His voting record

His "not" voting record.

His ties with "Rezko".

His comments about being against the war, and later saying he didn't know how he would have voted if he had been in congress.

His ties to lobbyists.

I am sure others can add more!

[Cha]

29. All hilary talking points but

they got you sucked.

[JackORoses]

20. Bill Clinton actually spoke the quotes above.

Do you have an Obama quote demonstrating what you claim above?

Rather dishonest if you don't have one, wouldn't you say, Rindy?

In fact, Obama even brought up Bill's Fairytale comment in relation to his anti-War position in last night's debate.

[AtomicKitten]

5. The Clintons learned well from the GOP and are paying the cheese forward against fellow Dems

[suston96]

7. Obama uses language that is ambiguous and therefore justifiably subject to ....

...various interpretations.

His Reagan reference was taken as praise for Reagan and dissing Nixon and Clinton, and his comment on the Republican Party as a "party of ideas" was taken as a comparison between the two parties implying that the Democratic Party was not "a party of ideas".

Tell Obama to think before he speaks, and while you are at it, tell him to quit stuttering. But I still think that Obama is likeable enough.

[Andy823]

11. Yes he is "likeable" enough

He just isn't ready for prime time!

[THUNDER HANDS]

13. it's only ambiguous if you don't like him

I clearly understood the point he was making.

[suston96]

30. I like him enough...Some of my best friends are...US Senators running for President.....

[BenDavid]

16. Republicans were the party of ideas.....the last ten, fifteen years

Really, Mr. Obama? The Republicans have been the party of ideas for the past ten to fifteen years? Including the last seven years of Bill Clinton's administration? Really, Mr. Obama?

Since the economy is the hot topic these days, let's just look at what President Clinton did for minorities in terms of economic gains.So just what did William Jefferson Clinton do for blacks and Latinos? Unemployment Rate for African Americans and Hispanics Remains Historically Low. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, the Hispanic unemployment rate has dropped from 11.3 percent in January 1993 to a record low of 5.8 percent in March 1999. The unemployment rate for African Americans has fallen from 14.1 percent in January 1993 to 8.1 percent in March 1999--one of the lowest levels on record for African Americans.

Listen, Mr. Obama. If you think that President Clinton accomplished those amazing turnarounds for the economy and for minorities by singing "Kumbayah" with Republicans, you've just shown how naive you are.And you've exposed how uninformed you are about the brutal history of U.S. politics where every progressive step is spattered with the blood, sweat and tears of all who fought so hard for those gains.

Oh and remember how the republicans voted against the clinton economic package. NOT ONE SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTE...Bill Clinton had an idea about the economy of the u.s. and put forth his plan.

[JackORoses]

23. the Repukes took over the last 10-15 years.

They did this because they convinced the majority of Americans that they had better ideas.
Of course, their ideas were bad, but the people bought them unquestioningly for long time.

You cannot deny this. The Elections during that time speak for themselves.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

18. twists = untruths

[Cha]

22. Thanks Jake via Magic Rat..for trying to set the record

straight..from the lyin' clintons. That's how they're goin' down in history and the gutter. Known as the the Lyin' clintons who didn't have much so the need to distort was stronger than their moral center.