Edwards challenged Obama after Clinton noted that Obama had voted "present" 130 times:

[rodeodance]

I had to leave the debate for a bit last night-I see Edwards got into the PRESENT vote controversary also:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080122/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_quotes;_ylt=AnHs.Z.8xSDf10VNEgcn9mCs0NUE


......Edwards challenged Obama after Clinton noted that Obama had voted "present" 130 times while he was in the Illinois Senate:

EDWARDS: What I didn't hear was an explanation for why over 100 times you voted present instead of yes or no when you had a choice to vote up or down.

OBAMA: I'll be happy to answer it. Because in Illinois — in Illinois, oftentimes you vote present in order to indicate that you had problems with a bill that otherwise you might be willing to vote for. And oftentimes you would have a strategy that would help move the thing forward.

Keep in mind, John, I voted for 4,000 bills. And if you want to know whether or not I worked on tough stuff, I passed the first racial...

EDWARDS: I don't question whether you worked on tough stuff.

OBAMA: No, no, no. Hold on a second.

EDWARDS: I don't question whether you worked on tough stuff.

OBAMA: No, no. But you...

EDWARDS: The question is, why would you over 100 times vote present? I mean, every one of us — every one — you've criticized Hillary. You've criticized me for our votes.

OBAMA: Right.

EDWARDS: We've cast hundreds and hundreds of votes. What you're criticizing her for, by the way, you've done to us, which is you pick this vote and that vote out of the hundreds that we've cast.........

[Ganja Ninja]

1. From what I'm hearing Obama got his ass kicked last night.

Hillary set him up and Edwards knocked him down.

[flordehinojos]

2. i am so glad ... and he deserved every bit of it ...

he sounded much like a teen-ager who got in trouble and was trying to excuse his trouble with the most illogical kinds of excuses and arguments.

[calmblueocean]

3. Obama did great. Double teaming didn't really help Edwards or Hillary.

All three had a strong showing, ultimately.

[Maribelle]

8. No, Obama did not do great. His supporters have lower expectations.

Obama is not a debater. He cannot deliver as he does with his charismatic prepared speeches. He was unclear and waffled on too many extremely important issues. Obama is not presidential, but rather is merely an adorable poster child.

[calmblueocean]

13. I'm a Kucinich supporter, not an Obama supporter, and I thought he did great.

You can't speak for other people, only yourself.

[elias7]

15. You are making some strong statements there which I disagree with

All that is clear to me is that you don't like him. I thought he did remarkably well. He is a law professor and I find his debate style is more subtle than HRC or JE. I disagree about the waffling; rather, I feel that HRE and JE often misrepresented his positions, even after he clarified.

For what its worth, my opinion is that he seems the most intellectually honest of the three.

[rodeodance]

4. I was only able to watch it on and off--and when DU threads many seemed to be mad

at Clinton--but seems Edwards was also involved as you say.

[Cameron27]

5. I didn't think Obama came off very well

last night, but the audience was behind him so it's hard to judge how it played outside of SC.

[rodeodance]

6. umm.. you have a point.

[Cameron27]

7. It looks like Clinton may concede SC,

and it's probably a smart move.

[Maribelle]

9. Who are you listening regarding this concede pomp? MSM?

I've read that President Clinton and Chelsea will remain in South Carolina campaigning for her. That is rather far from a concession, don't you think?

Hillary has perhaps moved on to the super Tuesday issues and areas.

[ccpup]

11. yes, Bill and Chelsea are on the ground for her in SC

and she's consolidating her leads in CA, MO, NY, NJ and NM. With the window between the SC Primary on the 26th and Super Tuesday on February 5th, she's quite happy to let Obama expend his resources and time on a State he holds double digit leads in while she works the ground in overwhelmingly delegate rich States.

[Cameron27]

24. You said it better than I did,

concede probably wasn't the right word.

[Apollo11]

10. You heard wrong. Obama did great.

Hillary went way overboard in her attacks against Obama.

CLINTON: Well, you know, Senator Obama, it is very difficult having a straight-up debate with you, because you never take responsibility for any vote, and that has been a pattern.


Obama did a great job of defending himself against Edwards.

EDWARDS: There is one other issue that was mentioned in passing by the two of them, which is the issue of jobs. And there is a difference between myself and my colleagues on this issue of jobs, because they both supported the Peru trade deal. My view is the Peru trade deal was similar to NAFTA. And this is crucial to the state of South Carolina and jobs in South Carolina. South Carolina has been devastated by NAFTA and trade deals like NAFTA.

<...>

OBAMA: Let me just respond to a couple of things. <...> Point number two, on trade, John is exactly right that you travel around South Carolina and you see the textile mills that John's father worked in closed, all over the region. And it is absolutely true that NAFTA was a mistake.

I know that Hillary on occasion has said -- just last year said this was a boon to the economy. I think it has been devastating, because our trade agreements did not have labor standards and environmental standards that would assure that workers in the U.S. were getting a square deal.

But the only thing I want to differ on John is this whole notion of Peru. The Peru trade deal had labor and environmental agreements in it. Peru is an economy the size of New Hampshire. Over 90 percent of the goods coming from Peru already come in under various free trade agreements.

And, John, you voted for permanent trade relations with China, which I think anybody who looks at how we structure trade in this country would tell you has been the biggest beneficiary and the biggest problem that we have with respect to trade, particularly because they're still manipulating the currency.

<...>

EDWARDS: No one has to explain to me what these trade deals have done to South Carolina, to North Carolina. My father, who's sitting right out there in the audience, worked in the mills for 36 years and we have seen what these trade deals have done to people who have worked hard all their lives.

And the problem with Peru, Barack, is you are leaving the enforcement of environmental and labor regulations in the hands of George Bush.

I wouldn't trust George Bush to enforce anything, certainly no trade obligations.

OBAMA: Well, the only point I would make is that in a year's time, it'll be me who's enforcing them.

And so we're going to make sure that the right thing is being done.

I think Obama came out best on the trade issue. But maybe that's just me? :eyes:

Read the full transcript here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/21/debate.transcript/index.html

Watch the whole debate here:
www.youdecide2008.com/2008/01/22/video-cnn-democratic-debate-from-myrtle-beach-south-carolina/

[mikekohr]

12. Obama stood up to the machine, BUT NOBODY in the Democratic Party wins here

The movement is running into the machine. Barack needed to stand up and fight. He will win SC because he did.

Edward Kennedy and others have contacted the Clinton camp and told them to cool it. Ted knows something about bitter primary fights and the harm that can befall the party because of them. The Clinton camp had to derail the Obama Insurgency after Iowa in order to prevent a run away for Barack. As the establishment candidate Hillary inherits the mantle of inevitability, however she may indeed win the nomination at the cost of losing the general election, even in this, the most favorable of political climates.

If McCain wins the Republican nomination and Hillary has risen to the top of our pile by using division and diversion, she and many of our House, Senate and local candidates in "purple" districts and states are in trouble. Independants, moderates and the ability to peel away some votes from the other party are the keys to winning the Presidency and lifting the whole ticket. Obama has this ability. So does McCain. Hillary, not so much.

mike kohr

[K Gardner]

20. Bravo, Mike. Couldn't have been said better !

[Catchawave]

14. I didn't understand Obama's explanation

Ok, I'm in Virginia, where if you have problems with a bill in the state assembly, you simply vote "no", if it fails, you re-work and re-submit. Up or Down.

[Gloria]

16. He said that in ILL, they vote present if there's something technically wrong

with the bill...

Well, fine and dandy...but there are lots of "technically" flawed bills (and what does "technically" really refer to? Probably differs from bill to bill)....So, if a "technically flawed bill" hits the desk of the POTUS, a decision has to be made...up, down...pocket veto, or veto. If you really want what's in a bill, flaws or no flaws, what do you do??? I think that's the whole point of this argument...that ILL games may not be possible or desirable for a POTUS.

[mikekohr]

19. Understanding Illinois Legislative Procedure

It is common practice in Illinois for a bill to be voted on as "present," to keep the bill alive while it is ammended or modified. As I remember it, the vote in particular that resulted In Barack Obama as well as most of the Democratic Caucus recording scores of "present" votes was a bill supported by Planned Parenthood. Voting present on this particular bill was a strategy endorsed by the sponser of the bill (which eventually passed) and was a stragedy followed by the majority of the Democratic Caucus.

Edwards and Clinton, whom have no statehouse legislative backround (certainly none in Illinois), would not know this from first hand experience. Clinton's and Edward's staff on the otherhand are certainly, or should be aware, of this quirk in Illinois politics. To portray this as they have is less than informed at best. and dishonest at worst. Ignorance or dishonesty, neither quality reflect well on the candidates or their respective staffs.

On the other hand, most of America will not understand the facts of this "Red Herring." Clinton and Edwards may score points at the expense of the truth and Senator Obama.

mike -from downstate Illinois-

[TankLV]

17. And obama looked ridiculous - notice he never did give an answer...

he got PUNKED - GOOD - on this...

If he is the nominee - I'll vote "present" - I'm sure all his clueless defenders will understand...!!!

[jackson_dem]

18. Edwards exposed Obama's little game and his hypocritical crying when the tables were finally turned

[Skwmom]

21. Didn't Edwards say something about he could not have voted? Funny, he and Clinton

were falling all over themselves voting for the Iraq War to prove that they wouldn't be weak on national security Democrats.

[Hoof Hearted]

22. Edwards was very strong in that debate.

I thought it was his best debate so far.

[GreenArrow]

23. Classic sanctimony

-- real Liebermanesque stuff -- coming from "Senator Gone".

[CyberPieHole]

25. Oh, it was SWEET. Obama was exposed for the charlatan that he is...

Hillary pulled Obama's pants down and Edwards kicked him in the nutz...all for the world to see. True, Obama's supporters snorted and squawked, but the damage was done...hey the guy has to be vetted...the repubs won't treat him with kid gloves if he gets the nomination.


:kick: and recommend