HC Press Release: Intended to Confuse Voters and Put Obama on the Defensive

[Avalux]

Another example of hitting below the belt from the Hillary Clinton. Reading the press release, a person without knowledge would assume Obama purposefully bought advertising in the local Florida market and aired an ad. "How dare he!" is the tone of the press release. There is no attempt to give facts about what really occurred. And it is quite brazen considering Clinton kept her name on the ballot in Michigan which was a slap in the face of the Democratic Party.

FACT:

Obama's campaign is airing an ad nationally on CNN. Those viewers in Florida with cable access to CNN were able to see it.

The ad was not aired in local Florida markets and was not targeted specifically for the Florida voter. It appears Obama MAY have violated the pledge unknowingly and a simple statement by his campaign should clear things up. However what this ridiculous press realeast does is put Obama on the defensive where any explanation will not be good enough for Clinton. She is capitalizing on the ignorance of the American voter.

Just one more reason to drive me further away from wanting to support Hillary Clinton.

[MethuenProgressive]

1. You sound very confused --

"Those viewers in Florida were able to see it. The ad was not aired in local Florida markets,"
:shrug:

[Avalux]

2. No I don't. LOCAL. CNN is a national cable channel.

:eyes:

[MethuenProgressive]

4. So the ad wasn't seen in Florida?

Or not?

[Avalux]

6. Did you read my post?? Obviously not. n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

12. You typed "Obama's campaign is airing an ad nationally on CNN." Isn't Florida in the Nation?

Or do you have some more News?

[rinsd]

7. DNC rules do not state local vs national ad buys

Otherwise what would have prevented candidates from buying advertising in neighboring states whose TV stations are seen in the state being punished.

[Kittycat]

10. Some people just don't understand that there are two teirs of "tee-vee"

Local, that we used to line our rabbit ears with arcs of foil, to get to work and run endless commercials for used car lots around town... And Cable, the stations you pay a premium for.

ETA: And when you do a national ad buy - those markets are all lumped in. If you do a TARGETED ad buy, it rolls the commercials out in select markets.

[rinsd]

20. DNC rules make no distinction between local or national.

According to your logic, ad time bought in a neighboring state that has broadcasts that can be picked up in the state that is off limits would be ok.

Maybe you can explain to us all about "tee-vee" again

[Kittycat]

22. Why didn't HRC remove her name from the Michigan Ballot?

Explain that please.

[rinsd]

36. Because the pledge didn't require removing one's name from the ballot.

That was a political stunt that the Obama campaign jumped onto AFTER Biden and Richardson made their move.

[Lucinda]

39. There was no requirement to do so. They pledged NOT TO CAMPAIGN THERE.

Obama and Edwards CHOSE to take their names off. So they could appease Iowa and NH. It was totally unnecessary.

[Avalux]

42. Not campaign there?

Clinton spoke at an campaign event on elderly issues in Palm Beach today. She was in South Florida after attending the Univision debate in Miami. -September 10, 07
http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/primarysource ...

and here:
At about 9:45 p.m. last night, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was on the phone with about 65 people gathered in Linda Bird's home in Fort Lauderdale. December 12, 07
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2007/12/hi ...

and possibly coming up:
In fact, the Clinton campaign inquired Tuesday if the Miami Beach Convention Center will be available for a ''rally'' on Jan. 27, two days before the state holds its earliest primary in history. - Jan 27, 08
http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/381016.html

[Lucinda]

56. They are allowed fundraisers.

Your fist link boston.com is about NH in January. I see no commentary about Florida.
Your second link doesn't work at all.
Thie third doesnt state what kind of rally is it...and it hasn't happened yet.

[rinsd]

68. Try reading those links

Your 1st one

New Hampshire Democratic Chair Ray Buckley said he Clinton was not, in fact, violating the pledged she signed to sign and Democratic leaders in South Carolina, Nevada, and Iowa not to campaign in Michigan or Florida.

"These states had 30 days to comply so right now they are not in violation," said Buckley.

2nd one

Guests were asked to bring $1 to $5, technically making the event a fundraiser that is exempt from the Democratic field's pledge not to campaign in Florida.


And the 3rd has yet to happen.

[Avalux]

78. 1 - 5 bucks. LOL.

:rofl:

[JackORoses]

29. it's not being broadcast by Florida stations, it is coming from CNN on cable

still confused?

[rinsd]

41. DNC rules makes no distinction between national or local broadcast.

But rather if said advertising reaches a significant portion of that state's voters.

Still confused?

[LittleClarkie]

35. What's not to understand. Cable channels vs local channels

as in the channels that are left when you unplug your cable.

[rinsd]

3. And yet the DNC rules for campainging say otherwise

"'Campaigning' for the purposes of this includes...purchasing print, Internet, or electronic advertising that reaches significant percentage of the voters in aforementioned state; hiring campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; holding news conferences; coordinating volunteer activities...holding events to which Democratic voters are invited; attending events sponsored by state or local Democratic organizations..."

CNN is seen in 6.6M homes in FL.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. does it say specifically NO NATIONAL ADVERTISING?

does it say that anywhere?

[rinsd]

14. It doesn't matter if its local or national just that it reaches a sig portion of that state's voters

Otherwise candidates could just buy advertising in a neighboring state that's broadcasts are reached by the state that is off limits.

[Kittycat]

18. So now you're saying he can't advertise in neighboring states either?

[rinsd]

26. Not if there is overlap reaching a significant portion of FL voters.

Here's the DNC rules on campaigning.

"purchasing print, Internet, or electronic advertising that reaches significant percentage of the voters in aforementioned state"

[Kittycat]

69. Oh brother. Get a new spin. Please.

[rinsd]

76. What spin?

Those are the rules.

I thought you were gonna educate us all on "tee-vee".

[Avalux]

9. You didn't read my post either apparently. n/t

[mckeown1128]

33. making public appearances....like this

Clinton spoke at an campaign event on elderly issues in Palm Beach today. She was in South Florida after attending the Univision debate in Miami. -September 10, 07
http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/primarysource...

and here:
At about 9:45 p.m. last night, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was on the phone with about 65 people gathered in Linda Bird's home in Fort Lauderdale. December 12, 07
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2007/12/hi...

and possibly coming up:
In fact, the Clinton campaign inquired Tuesday if the Miami Beach Convention Center will be available for a ''rally'' on Jan. 27, two days before the state holds its earliest primary in history. - Jan 27, 08
http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/381016.html

[rinsd]

62. I see you left out key portions

Your 1st one

New Hampshire Democratic Chair Ray Buckley said he Clinton was not, in fact, violating the pledged she signed to sign and Democratic leaders in South Carolina, Nevada, and Iowa not to campaign in Michigan or Florida.

"These states had 30 days to comply so right now they are not in violation," said Buckley.

2nd one

Guests were asked to bring $1 to $5, technically making the event a fundraiser that is exempt from the Democratic field's pledge not to campaign in Florida.


And the 3rd has yet to happen.

[JackORoses]

47. if we are getting technical here, how do you prove the ad 'reached' anybody?

Just because it has the potential to reach 6.6 million, doesn't mean that anybody had CNN on when the ad aired.

The pledge includes no language clarifying this.
'Reached' Voters is not equivalent to 'Potentially reached' voters.

Can you accept this?

[THUNDER HANDS]

5. it really is slimey - this is a very Republican operation here

lie, distort, distract.

[bigdarryl]

11. Obama needs to stop explaining anything to these Clinton campaign thugs

[ericgtr]

23. The Clintons

are nothing but a relentless attack machine. If she wins I can't wait to see the republicans rip her a new asshole, she couldn't be more deserving of it.

[Tulkas]

13. The Pledge says... Not Participate In......

I took the link off Dodd's site,


http://chrisdodd.com/media/releases/chris-dodd-signs-pledge-early-caucus-and-primary-states





Hillary "participated in" Michigan, Obama and Edwards took their name off the ballot. Hillary didn't.


Is a cable buy that lapses over into Florida and Michigan (I saw the add on CNN in Michigan, good add) as bad as keeping your name on the ballot? I don't think so but I am sure Clinton supporters will spin this.

[Kittycat]

16. Well, it's okay for Clinton to do whatever she wants. It's other people that can't.

even if they didn't break any rules.

[Sparkly]

28. The DNC rules in the pledge didn't say to remove names from the ballot.

:shrug:

[Avalux]

32. Isn't it the principal though? Why keep her name on the ballot?

I can't think of a good reason; especially when the other candidates united and removed theirs. :shrug:

[Sparkly]

Some did, some didn't. DK, Dodd, Clinton didn't.

Biden, Obama, Edwards did.

It wasn't required, and some felt it was dissing the MI voters to go that far.

[Tulkas]

57. Edwards didn't (get your facts straight)

Biden and Dodd had dropped out, so did Richardson for that matter.


I voted on that ballot (Uncommitted) Edwards was not on it !!!

[Sparkly]

59. Didn't = Didn't request for their names to be removed. nt

[Tulkas]

66. Didn't = Didn't participate, he was not on the ballot I voted that ballot he was not on it

[Sparkly]

72. Oh my God.

No, Tulkas, I was explaining to you what I meant when I wrote "didn't" so that you'd understand. I didn't have my facts wrong.

The rules said what "participating" means. Requesting removal of their names from the ballot was an unnecessary step that some felt was excessive 'punishment,' rubbing voters' nose in it.

[Tulkas]

75. Ok, misread it. my bad

Sorry. I thought you were saying he didn't have his name taken off.

I guess I rushed through it. Sorry Sorry Sorry

[rinsd]

44. What principle? Obama only did it because Biden and Richardson announced they were.

His principle was fear that it would be used against him.

[Tulkas]

71. Hillary signed the pledge, last, lets follow your logic

If you do something you must be doing it out of fear. Hillary was the last one to sign the pledge so she must have done it out of fear.

He did the right thing, she did not. Deal with it. Clintons have low moral standards, always have always will.

[Tulkas]

49. It says "not participate in" how is your name on the ballot not participating?

[Sparkly]

52. It prohibited campaigning there.

It did not say the candidates needed to request their names to be taken off the ballot, as well.

[Tulkas]

60. Please

Is she really so stupid that you need to spell that out for her????


Putting her name on the ballot could be considered participating.

Face it, she participated. You can say she is so dumb she didn't know she was participating or she knowingly broke her pledge. I don't see a third choice.


Do we all want another president who does nothing but look for tiny loopholes to he/she can break rules/pledges and not be accountable. 8 years of that is more than enough IMO.

[Sparkly]

67. It's not a tiny loophole.

The DNC established the rules. Some candidates -- Clinton, Dodd, DK -- evidently felt it was an extra step that wasn't necessary and could be seen as thumbing their noses at the voters of Michigan. Now you can agree or disagree with that, but it is NOT a violation of the pledge they made.

[Tulkas]

73. being on ballot is participating

Stop trying to change definitions, that is a Bush tactic.

[Sparkly]

74. The definitions were decided by the DNC, Tulkas. Not you, not me. nt

[sunonmars]

15. Rubbish

when you book advertising, you are expressly told where it will be aired. It will have said Florida in big bold letters.

No excuses, its a flagrant breach of the DNC rules.

Now you guys like to attack Hillary on this, so suck it up, your guys broke the rules, didnt he.

Its a bit like a restraining order. The judge tells you cant set foot somewhere. If you do, You'll get arrested.

So which is it. You cant have it both ways.

[Avalux]

17. Fair enough. So why didn't Hillary remove her name from the ballot in Michigan?

That, to me, is a worse offense.

[sunonmars]

25. She didnt have to

the rules said no campaigning they could have left there names on the ballot, DK did also, they chose not to.

[Sparkly]

27. The pledge was not to campaign in Michigan.

From Dodd's campaign (Dodd also stayed on the ballot):

Dodd's campaign issued this statement: "We are committed to the importance of Iowa and New Hampshire going first, and we signed the four-state pledge to hopefully prevail upon the DNC and the state parties to add clarity to that situation. However, it does not benefit any of us if we are the nominee to pull our name off the ballot and slight Michigan voters."

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/leaving_michigan_behind.html

(Don't know what that site is, I just found it via Google)

[rinsd]

31. Because it was an unnecessary political stunt that could have consequences.

Dodd who was the very first to sign the 4 state pledge thought it was a silly move.

Obama and Edwards jumped on late after Biden and Richardson made known their plans to remove their names from the ballot.

Should Obama or Edwards become the nominee they will have to fight for MI far harder than they should have to.

[Tulkas]

19. Hillary participated in Michigan primary

This is clearly against the pledge.

You Clinton supporters can't have it both ways

[MADem]

21. Drive you further away?? Please, don't be disingenuous.

:rofl:

I rather doubt this matter was your "breaking point" as you struggled to choose a candidate. To even suggest so is offensive to the intelligence of everyone reading your post.

He aired an ad in Florida, because he made a NATIONAL, rather than regional, ad buy. Ooops!

The ad may not have been "targeted specifically" but it WAS "aired in local FL markets." That's what happens when you do a national buy. Did he somehow think that CNN would magically chop FL out of his national buy? Of course he didn't.

Don't tell me his advertising crew is THAT stupid. This was an "Ooopsie, I did it by mistake! Oh, silly me, I didn't MEAN it!" ploy.

Fine, whatever. I'm not as excited about it as you are struggling to defend yet another 'little stunt.' It's starting to become all too commonplace. That Politics Of Hope has morphed to Politics As Usual.

[tokenlib]

34. There are no Florida delagates...so why do you care???

Don't you Clintonites have anything better to do? Like telling us WHY we should support Hillary??

[MADem]

55. Why are YOU getting so excited, then? Because your candidate violated a DNC pledge?

You've got some funnyass MOXIE there, dear, asking me why I care!!

Why don't you ask the ORIGINATOR of the thread why he or she "cares" so much?

What are you, the Net Nanny? Asking people to justify why they participate in a thread that one of your cohorts started? Is that flopsweat on your brow, or are you happy to see me?

:rofl:

And way to go, there, Rocket Scientist, ignoring that EDWARDS contingent with your charming "You Clintonites" bit of scolding!!! I'm not a "Clintonite" yet, but thanks for playing! People like you will likely turn me into one soon enough, though!

[DJ13]

24. "The Clintons will SAY ANYTHING, they will DO ANYTHING....."

".......to get Hillary the nomination."

Mike Barnacle three days ago on MSNBC


He's right.

[Sparkly]

30. This is often said of "The Clintons," but it's true of all political campaigns. nt

[Tulkas]

46. a drop of water, an ocean. both are wet, you can say the same thing about both

[Sparkly]

53. All campaigns will use as much as they think will benefit them.

At the temperature that most benefits them, with the PH balance that most benefits them, from the source that most benefits them.

[LittleClarkie]

37. How would one even go about blocking one state or another on a cable channel

Is there a way to do it?

[Avalux]

40. That's a good question - I really don't know.

What would air in it's place? :shrug:

[MADem]

64. An ad for Fred's Diner, or Value Warehouse, or Mattress Discounters.

Haven't you ever heard of targeted ad buys?

You want to avoid FL?

Tell the ad salesman from whom you buy the time to please don't air this ad in FL markets.

[MADem]

61. Local and regional buys.

All the campaign has to do is ask.

It takes a bit more effort on the part of the network structuring the buy (where it plays, when it plays, how many times, etc.), but for an account that large, I'm quite sure CNN's ad salesmen would do ALL the heavy lifting for them.

All the buyer has to do is tell the ad salesman, NOTHING IN FL, please! Bingo--their wish is CNN's command...!

Thus, when the person in TX sees the Obama commercial on Larry King Live, the person watching the same show in FL sees the ad for Fred's Diner in Jacksonville.

[LittleClarkie]

70. Suffice it to say I think both campaigns might be acting a tad disingenous

esp. if Hillary uses this as an excuse to do some campaigning of her own.

We shall see.

[MADem]

77. The point is, though, it's "idiot - easy" to do.

I'd love to see the CONTRACT for that ad buy--it would tell the tale. You could see if it was "all a big mistake" and they were SUPPOSED to avoid FL, but "forgot" or you could see if FL was even mentioned. You could also find out WHO from the Obama campaign signed the contract and made the deal, and put THAT person on the hot seat.

Call up any media ad salesman, they'll tell ya. Nowadays, you can target your ads so that you zero in or your demographic like a starving mosquito after a chubby wet victim. Age, gender, race, you name it--all based on what shows they're likely to watch, without wasting a dime on the ninety year old LIFETIME TV watcher who isn't interested in what you are selling. Most of the marketers have demographic research available for you to peruse, or they'll come up with a plan, and you can check it against your own or someone else's research.

And all the buyer has to do is TELL the ad salesman what he or she wants. You spell it out, they put it in the contract. I want to reach this demographic, this age range, this 'lifestyle' category (that's money/income, mind you, not the GOP slam for orientation--but you can target that too, if you'd like) and IN THESE LOCATIONS. Or, and NOT in these locations. They'll even help you produce the ad if you have no facilities of your own; or they'll run what you give them.

If Clinton does some "responding," one can't blame her. After all, Democrats as a party never got anywhere by "failing to respond." BO opened the door--he can't cry about the consequences now. And if it was a campaign staffer's fuckup, I think that person should "step up" and admit it.

[LittleClarkie]

81. But isn't a generic ad not targetted for Florida different from

a campaign designed specifically for Florida voters?

And if Hillary campaigns at events in Florida, isn't that also different than a generic national ad?

Why do either of the campaigns care about Florida anyway? They can get no delegates from them.

Or is this all about positioning themselves for the general election? In that case, it won't matter much if both of them campaign and piss off the DNC if either of them can win the state in November.

[MADem]

83. No, and here's why. The ad buy was from CNN--a single salesman, a single network.

It's no challenge to black out FL and hand the time over for resale by local resellers.

The ads they ran in IA were the same ads they ran in NH. Pretty much all parties used the same stuff in both places. A FL ad would work in sunny CA, easy. It depends on the issue points--if your ad is sufficiently generic, it can go anywhere. And most candidates don't target 'by state' anymore (especially with the bunched primaries) unless there is a specific state issue that resonates.

As for those FL delegates, well, there's plenty a slip twixt the cup and the lip. They could well end up being seated in Denver, after the local FL party leadership has begged forgiveness from Saint Howard of Dean and promised never, EVER, to be bad boys and girls again. You can never say never...!

[MediaBabe]

38. Well... How come none of the others had this problem?

Why did only Obama accidentally advertise in Florida yet none of the other Democrat candidates did? Carelessness? Incompetence? Or shrewd calculation?

There isn't a campaign manager out there who wouldn't know exactly what was being done. Only one campaign thought they could get away with it.

[mckeown1128]

54. Or maybe he is trying to advertise in the many Feb 5th states...

and that there is no way of buying National ads with out florida seeing them.

[MADem]

65. Because they told the guy from whom they bought their time NOT to air in FL, that's why. NT

[Tulkas]

43. Does an add = "Campaigning"

The pledge says, "not campaign or participate in"


Is running an add the same as campaigning?

I am not trying to spin this. Honestly. I don't have a specific definition of the word "is" oops, I mean the word "campaign". (ok I am trying to spin this a bit)

He isn't going to Florida to "campaign". I am Obama supporter so I may be bias, but I am up in the air on this specific.

[MADem]

79. Yes. You use campaign contributions to get your message out. NT

[NoBorders]

45. More slime from the hillary campaign. Send in bill

to say that Obama eats babies.

[Skip Intro]

48. Clinton claims Obama broke the pledge, and you say he broke the pledge.

unknowingly, of course :eyes:

If he broke the pledge, then he broke the pledge.

[Tulkas]

50. yes i do, whats your point

Edit. I misread the initial post. DOH sorry


UNLESS the definition of the word "campaign" can be spun to not include running adds. It may be that "campaigning" refers to physically being present to give speeches and give rallies etc.

[Cha]

51. the clintons are so fucking clever that

they forgot to use their brains.

[Sparkly]

58. And that's so fucking funny that

I forgot to laugh.

[hayu_lol]

63. You have one campaigner who has almost everything figured out and planned for...

you have other candidates who don't seem to be able, at times, to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Experience counts. Obama is now coming from behind...can't get out of defending his own mistakes and miscalculations. Offhand, it is his problem, not Hillary's.

All three leaders are attorneys. All three are bright attorneys. All three should know how to define what the word is'is.'

And for all those people who NEVER read any of the threads(many)about the Michigan debacle: The candidates were not required...repeat, not required...repeat...not required to remove their names from the Michigan ballot. How can one run for national office unless their names are on the ballot? People who removed their names unnecessarily demonstrated their own inexperience with political manuvering.



Campaigning was a different matter.

[Cha]

91. The right kind of experience counts

and it's not over yet. As big and scarey as the clintons think they are..Obama can handle their cheatin' asses.

[zulchzulu]

80. You nailed it: "She is capitalizing on the ignorance of the American voter"

That's what her whole campaign is about.

[Samantha]

82. I decided to check this out myself after Hardball said Obama had DNC approval

to run the ad in Florida. Here are a couple of items I found:

http://swarheit.blogspot.com/2008/01/clinton-campaign-hypocritical-on.html

"There's a simple reason why the Clinton campaign is doing this: They lead in Florida because Obama has been unable to campaign there. The national media ignored Michigan (and we'll get to Michigan in a moment) and the Clinton campaign, which seems likely to lose South Carolina this week, would love nothing more than for the national media to treat Hillary Clinton's "victory" in the previously uncontested Florida race as a "momentum booster" going into Super Tuesday on February 5th. They are taking this opportunity to try to convince everyone Florida really is in play, so when they do win on January 29, it gets covered, talked about, and gets Clinton off the mat after her expected South Carolina defeat. Makes sense. Problem is, it's incredibly hypocrtical.

"First, this is not a Florida ad-buy, it's a national ad-buy. The Obama campaign inquired about excluding Florida from where the ads were run and were told by CNN and MSNBC that it was impossible to do so. Not only that, but they went to the Democratic National Committee itself and got permission from the South Carolina DNC Party Chair. If the DNC and South Carolina had no problem with the ad-buy, why should the Clinton campaign? " (emphasis added)

and

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Welcome_Florida.html

UPDATE: Though the Clinton campaign convened a conference call with several early-state supporters, Obama's claims the stamp of approval approval from the only early-state chair still in play, South Carolina's Carol Fowler.

“Both national cable networks told us it would be impossible for us to run advertising nationally that excluded only Florida. For that reason we consulted with the South Carolina Democratic Party Chair Carol Fowler who told us unequivocally she did not consider this to be in violation of pledge made to the early states,” said Obama spokesman Bill Burton." (emphasis added)

Much to do about nothing, as usual.

[rinsd]

84. That blog post (1st one) has incorrect info, the DNC hasn't said anything yet.

[Samantha]

86. This info was originally broadcast by Hardball

Chris Matthews said Obama had prior DNC approval. There's also a statement from his official spokesman to that effect.

[rinsd]

87. Supposedly SC Dem Party Chair Carol Fowler approved it. DNC has not said anything.

[MediaBabe]

92. If you have to ask "is this breaking a promise?" it is.

They made a pledge. They broke it.

Just because one person said it was okay did not make breaking a promise made to a whole lot more than one person acceptable. It is still a broken promise.

[Samantha]

93. They got a verbal release from DNC in SC

It's being quoted all over the net and was earlier broadcast on Hardball.

[MediaBabe]

94. "I know I made a promise but can I break it now" doesn't cut it

It's still a broken pledge and that is not a good thing when it comes to holding the office of President Of The Greatest Nation On Earth as we have found out with a vengeance these past seven years.

No other candidate felt the need to break their word. Do you wonder why? Do you think they realized that once given, a person's word is their honor, as the old adage goes?

[PATRICK]

85. A simple question here(waving white flag)

So no candidate is airing national TV ads in any national venue whatsoever and all people could reasonably see are debates and internet offerings?????

[rinsd]

88. Guiliani is the only other candidate to do any national ads buys.

He's done at least two buys for Foxs Sunday morning show.

[PATRICK]

89. Thank you

Wonder why the other GOP candidates aren't.

[rinsd]

90. They are probably holding their fire until the week before Sooper-Dooper Tues.