Why the Harlem story is important (and sad)

[Essene]

Folks in Harlem used to LOVE the Clintons almost universally.

She cannot allow that image to falter.

This story isn't about Obama being black - and about how some dumb blacks are "still" supporting Obama just because he's black (which is what Bill Clinton is telling people). First of all, for those outside NYC... understand that politics in NYC are not simple black/white/latino or even partisan. This city is TRIBAL. There are networks of people coordinated usually more by geography and other factors.

Rev Calvin Butts is a major, major player in NYC politics. Behind the scenes, I'd suggest he's more influential than Rangel and Sharpton. That's how this city works. There are big time players who negotiate power among the borough tribes.

Bill Clinton setup his main offices in Harlem... it's a symbolic "home" for the Clintons.

Which is why so very much is at stake here, and why the Clinton machine is emphasizing their black support in NYC (because it's AT RISK). Folks in Harlem are not thrilled with Clinton. And i assure you... many folks in Harlem will not forget the race baiting that the Clinton campaign engaged in.

Let me say that again... cuz i realize about 80% of DU is in denial about this.

The Clinton campaign engaged in very nasty race baiting... and many will not forget. In a city all about tribal loyalties, this is not a small matter because this isn't just a slap in the face as a racial matter... it has ripple effects for voter turn-out and thus other elections. Some local politicians will hang tough with Hillary... likely making very harsh comments in private and will hold it against her for later favors.

But do not be confused...






A LOT OF OBAMA SIGNS ARE GOING UP IN HARLEM... in spite of the theatrics.

What really matters here is voter turn-out. Is the Democratic party going to start losing minority voters in primaries and in November because of this?

Now... while all the DU punks are going to come flame, pretend Obama's the one starting fights... playing dirty... I hope somewhere in the back of their insincere minds they ask themselves if that tone and dishonesty is good for everybody.

[MethuenProgressive]

1. What fuels the punk-like, hate-filled tone of your dishonest threads, Esse?

Now... while all the DU punks are going to come flame, pretend Obama's the one starting fights... playing dirty... I hope somewhere in the back of their insincere minds they ask themselves if that tone and dishonesty is good for everybody.

Where's the Hope, esse?

[Essene]

5. Spare me...

[MADem]

6. I agree with you, I got the same unpleasant and angry vibe.

Unsubtle.

[Essene]

8. She's my senator. I can be pissed if i want =)

Or join the others and attack those who have legitimate gripes with Senator Clinton.

[MADem]

22. You have every right to say what you please.

As do those who note that there's a certain, well, disingenuous quality to your commentary.

[Essene]

30. Spare me. It's legitimate anger at the Clinton Campaign.

And you're attempt to suggest i'm irrational or being unfair is annoying.

[MADem]

43. I beg your pardon? In no respect did I EVER suggest you were irrational OR unfair.

Are you confusing me with someone else? Because if you aren't, then the former suggestion by you does enter the realm of possibility.

Please point me to where you believe I said that--because I said NOTHING of the sort.

I'll appreciate your retraction of that assertion, as well.

[Essene]

52. Your point is to flame. Move along...

Disingenuous my ass... bug off.

Yea, NOW there is an angry vibe. lol

Sorry... but yea, im really sick of the petty flaming and bullcrap on DU every time somebody mentions the TRUTH about Hillary's race baiting.

[MADem]

66. AGAIN, I beg your pardon? Bug off???

You apparently are under a misapprehension as to the meaning of the word "disingenuous."

I am not calling you UNFAIR or IRRATIONAL, what I am saying is that you are less than fully sincere in your commentary.

My point is NOT to flame, but your original post plainly is.

And that, Sunshine, is "disingenuous."

[Tarc]

76. When you post lying, whiny rants like this

You should consider yourself lucky that someone only gives you a mild "disingenuous" rebuke. I have no qualms with saying that these "Clinton campaign engaged in very nasty race baiting.." claims are the product of a person who is unequivocally full of shit, and knows it.

[Essene]

77. Dare you flamers to show where im "lying". Go ahead. /yawn

[Tarc]

93. I just did

Pay attention, kid.

[HughMoran]

29. I agree - this post is small-minded and vulgar

I get the urge to :puke: when I read some of the defenses of this hateful rhetoric.

:puke:

[Essene]

32. Why? Because somebody dared mention the Clinton Race baiting again? republicanunderground.com

So, if anybody points out the Clinton dirty tricks and race baiting... you want to puke?

[HughMoran]

34. It's not about Hillary or Obama, it's the insult to my intelligence

...and everyone else here. Your post is race-baiting and vulgar politics at it's finest. It's making me ill. :puke:

[Essene]

36. I'm race baiting now? Good grief... the attacks get more and more pathetic

[HughMoran]

37. Yes, your post is utterly pathetic

I can't begin to tell you how much you have insulted my intelligence by posting this filth.

[Essene]

41. Poor you. Your "intelligence" is insulted while you flame... lol

You are just another insincere troll.

Thanks for bumping.

[HughMoran]

45. This post is flame-bait by your own admission:

"...while all the DU punks are going to come flame, pretend Obama's the one starting fights... playing dirty... I hope somewhere in the back of their insincere minds they ask themselves if that tone and dishonesty is good for everybody."

[bellasgrams]

74. epublicanunderground.com? What do you expect them to say.

they would love to beat Hillary.

[Bonobo]

39. I think I've seen enough of YOUR posts to make a decision

about their (and your) worth. So until THIS OP proves to me in thread after thread that they cannot be reasoned with, I will choose to believe their story.

See how it works?

[Nedsdag]

67. Where's the future, Methuen?

The Clinton tactics will cost your candidate dearly.

Keep it up.

[MethuenProgressive]

94. Ned, I was quoting from the OP.

Try to keep up.

[Renew Deal]

2. A lot of people don't realize that Hillary will have delegate problems in NY too.

There's lots of inner city districts as well as diverse and well off districts in CD3, 4, 5, and Albany/Troy area.

[Essene]

16. Yep.

There's a lot at stake here.

[MADem]

26. .

:rofl:

Yeah. We'll await that count with bated breath!

[elixir]

51. thanks Bleachers7 for bringing the thread back to the discussion.

Hillary needs to run a tight, smart campaign especially in NY.

[Renew Deal]

56. I live on LI.

I'm aware of the demographics and some of what's happening. Hillary has institutional support, but they're not doing anything in NY. Also the demographics are favorable to Obama except for populations of jewish vote (Hillary has a 50-30 advantage).

[Essene]

64. I think she'll do fine... especially when the media writes off SC as a "black thing" (lol)

You know it's true...

But she still has a delegate problem.

[Frances]

3. I do not understand why someone who is pro-Obama

is necessarily anti-Hillary.

At the moment, I'm angry with Obama for his distortion of the history of the 60s and 70s and of what Reagan stood for, but I will vote for him in the general.

I think the Dems, unlike the REpubs, had a number of very good candidates.

[cali]

7. He distorted nothing. There's not a political historian who doesn't

agree with his analysis of the "Reagan revolution". You, on the other hand....

[Frances]

20. Cali,

Are you being sarcastic when you say not a single political historian disagrees with Obama when he says that the 60s and 70s were a time of excess and that there was no accountablility in government until 1980 and that REagan was for entrepreneurs as opposed to corporations?

Reagan was anti-African American (he campaigned for states rights near the site of the murder of 3 civil rights workers); he was for privatization (which laid the groundwork for all the no-bid, corrupt Halliburton contracts); he broke up the air traffic controllers strike.

I don't know of a single historian who supports Obama's claims about Reagan.

I will vote for Obama if he wins the Dem nomination but I think he is the closest candidate to the Republicans that the Dems have. It's just that I think the Repubs will be worse.

[elizm]

95. Doris Kearns Goodwin | Pulitzer Prize Winning Author and Presidential Historian

"I don't know of a single historian who supports Obama's claims about Reagan".

Umm...Maybe Doris Kearns Goodwin | Pulitzer Prize Winning Author and Presidential Historian. Perhaps you missed Meet the Press yesterday? I would advise anyone who is uninformed about this to find the video tape. But, I don't know, perhaps your credentials as a Presidential Historian are more impressive??

[Frances]

24. Cali,

Are you from California?

Are you for Arnold?

[Essene]

15. Obama isn't my candidate, actually. I just don't like Hillary anymore...

[journalist3072]

4. Your post is utterly void of any real facts...

First of all, you are wrong right out the gate.

The story here IS about in my community, simply supporting Obama because of his race. Please check my journal here on DU and read up on my posts regarding Tom Joyner, and how he's unapologetically encouraged us in the A-A community to simply get behind the black man.

Secondly, as an African-American, I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion about the Clintons engaging in race baiting. It's pure bullshit. You want to talk about race baiting? How about the person from the Obama campaign who called Sen. Clinton "Senator Punjab."

Tell me this: Do you think the Clintons should not even bother to challenge Obama, because whatever criticism they have of him might be considered racist? That's just a B.S. point of view, one which you seem to be subscribing too.

[KennedyGuy]

9. I think thats what they are counting on..

Screaming "Racism" at every criticism, cheapens real racism..

[Essene]

17. So, now im part of "they?" Grow a spine... you sound like the GOP

[journalist3072]

25. In this case, yes you are...How IS that kool-aide, by the way?

[Bonobo]

46. You should call him an "idiot". That's what you usually do.

[KennedyGuy]

55. Oh stop playing the race card..They means Obama supporters...

get a frikkin clue
you won't scare me away with your phony and obvious race smears..

[Essene]

63. i love the attempt to attack me as being racist or race smearing. comedy.

[KennedyGuy]

69. glad to help ya out..

and before you shit yourself.."ya" is a term meaning you..nothing racist...

[psychopomp]

11. I wonder what you think of Sen. Clinton's "spade work"

[Essene]

12. Facts? Chew on these.

As an african-american, perhaps you should pay more attention... frankly.


### Clinton aids confirm race baiting agenda

It isnt a direct quote and it's the Guardian after-all, but it's on record. "Aides believe that, combined with a surge of support among women, Clinton's 'crying' incident, and the possible role of race in bringing white voters to the New York senator's side, they see the makings of a reconfigured strategy to carry the campaign forward." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/11/as-new-hampshire-dust-set_n_81159.html

### He's likely to get assassinated.

Somebody who introduced Hillary Clinton emphasized the comparison with JFK and how he got killed. “Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated." The Clinton admin distanced themselves from his comments, calling them inappropriate, but the damage was done. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### He's no MLK. And dreams need a President not speeches.

She dissed MLK, suggesting REAL change only happened because of President Johnson (not MLK's dream or the civil rights movement). She then implied that he doesn't remotely compare to MLK or Kennedy. "You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." Sad. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

Let's look at the statements in more detail.

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act.” “It took a president to get it done.” (Read: it took a white president)

“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches. President Kennedy was in Congress for 14 years. He was a war hero. He was a man of great accomplishments and readiness to be president. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led a movement. He was gassed. He was beaten. He was jailed. And he gave a speech that was one of the most beautifully, profoundly important speeches ever written in America, the “I have a dream” speech. And then he worked with President Johnson to get the civil rights laws passed, because the dream couldn’t be realized until finally it was legally permissible for people of all colors and backgrounds and races and ethnicities to be accepted as citizens."

Somebody remind Hillary that she supported Barry Goldwater back then... o.0

### Al qaeda will strike!!

"Look what happened in Great Britain," she said. "Tony Blair leaves, Gordon Brown comes in, the very next day, there are terrorist attacks." Sorry, but that's a disgraceful comment, directly suggesting terrorists will strike with the election of Obama. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/05/cnr.06.html

### The hip black male who can't provide

In the words of a Clinton adviser: "If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool." http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2238148,00.html

### False hope.

"An untested man who offers false hope." "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." Clinton herself said this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012851.php

### Obama just "shucks and jives"

Andrew Cuomo, NY Attorney General, and Clinton fan... came out swingin at Obama after NH primary. “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference,” he added. “All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.” http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Dept_of_word_choice.html

### Hispanics won't vote for him

Clinton pollster Sergio Bendixen: “The Hispanic voter—and I want to say this very carefully—has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates.” http://thepage.time.com/2008/01/12/racial-tensions-a-potential-boost-for-clinton

No... no... that's not an attempt to be divisive and race bait at all.

### "99 problems and a bitch aint one of them."

The New York Post said: "As Obama and his wife, Michelle, strolled triumphantly into his victory party in Des Moines, Iowa, on Jan. 3, Jay-Z's "99 Problems" was blaring. In it, Jay raps, 'I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one.'" Almost the entire article revolves around Clinton spokesperson commenting on the situation. Considering it was blatantly false and easily "checked" with a youtube search, it's fairly naive to believe the Clinton campaign accidentally bought into this lie and would comment on it without intent to give the story life. http://www.nypost.com/seven/01142008/gossip/pagesix/hillary__barack_rap__rock_142152.htm & http://youtube.com/watch?v=rAXAemXaivY

## Obama is an Uncle Tom who was doing drugs when the Clintons were fighting for blacks

BET founder Bob Johnson jumped up on stage with Hillary like a few other spineless black leaders, to attack Obama. The media focused on his comment about Obama's drug use, and Johnson later apologized. However, few cared to notice how Johnson compared Obama to Sidney Poitier's character in “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.” This is the modern equivalent of calling somebody an Uncle Tom. While Obama accepted the apology, do not believe it's acceptable to careful & critical observers. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/bet-chief-raps-obama-in-sc/

### Blacks support Obama just because he's black.

The day after a "truce" was declared between Clinton and Obama, Bill Clinton went on a vicious but subtle attack with more desperate race baiting. He said: "Hillary has an enormous amount of African American support and Barack Obama has a lot of white people for him," he said in Sparks. There's still some African Americans who support Barack, even though they like Hillary, because they think he is the first African American to have a chance to be president," Clinton said. "And there's a lot of women who are voting for Hillary, even though they like Sen. Obama, because they think it would be better if a woman broke the glass ceiling." Re-read that. He says blacks all like Hillary, but some 'still' like Obama (merely} because he's black. A smart man like Bill doesn't use these words without full grasp. Words like "chance" and "still" are no accidents. Notice he then plays the gender card. This was AFTER the truce. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-15-bill-clinton-nevada_N.htm

Oh... and in the same speech, Clinton called Obama the "establishment candidate." Stand-up comedy.

### Obama is just poetry.

She's been stumping with comments about how he's just talking poetry and she's ready to "govern with prose." Cute. " a doer, not a talker." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_rdp

### Obama is just a fairy tale.

Bill Clinton's rant the other day that i think shocked more than a few of us. Clinton flat out called Obama a liar, said he was a fairy tale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Muslim (danger danger!).

Several Clinton campaign folks were removed over this. One may argue this absolves her from responsibility, yet anybody paying attention realizes this smear is arguably one of higher impact ones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/second-clinton-volunteer-_n_76047.html

Not like Bob Kerrey and others kept this issue alive in the public dialog or anything, right? http://themoderatevoice.com/religion/islam/muslims/16573/clinton-support-bob-kerry-continues-to-raise-obama-muslim-issues/

### Drug record makes him unelectable.

Top Clinton advisor steps down after making various arguments about how Obama can't get elected due to his drug use. In the context of all the other stuff, this most certainly has racial overtones and will be taken that way by many minorities. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004077664_obama17.html


### Obama is in this only because of blind media.

Bill Clinton also suggested it was "wrong" that Obama has been able to get through 15 debates without being called a liar by the press. He implies the blind, uncritical media is the problem. "The press never reported on" yadda yadda. "Give me a break!" He thought Hillary was going to lose NH and was basically blaming the media for this "fairy tale." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama lacks depth and reality.

"On a lot of these issues it is hard to know where he stands, and people need to ask that." "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'" Clinton said that herself. In the context of the other smearing, this takes on racial overtones (onfortunately, because it otherwise is fair game). http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1

### Male chuavanism and the gender card.

Folks may reasonably disagree on the interpretation, but she's clearly playing the gender card lately - even implied that her gender alone equates to meaningful change in the White House (just imagine the outcry if Obama said that about being black). She said that in the 1/5/08 debate. Similarly, the spin out of NH is that his comment was rude and poor Hillary's being beaten up on by the boys *tear*. That's how i intepret this spin, and it seems very clear to me. And if you question her crying about her campaign hardships, she implies THAT is male chuavanism too. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530 & http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clintons-candid-assessment/

And additionally... i'd like to just focus on this clip from the NH Debate. She was attacked on the issue of likability. She joked that he's likable. He DEFENDED HER in return. She even says "i appreciate that," yet all the Clinton spin doctors (and Rove) are trying to pretend he attacked her. Watch for yourself and be honest. These 2 were just handling an obnoxious question with grace, but now the Clinton base is trying to turn this into a chuavanistic attack by him? Get real. Watch it. It was friendly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7RuzYvtCw

Lying about a black man's "tone" towards a white woman is easy to get away with in 2008, I guess.

### Obama is Bush 3.0

"He’s very likable . I agree with that…. You know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with." “I think it’s good to have a likeable president. But if I remember right, many people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush. Maybe they should’ve left it at that – have a beer, don’t vote him in as our president.” It's a slick way to deflect the likability argument, but she even tries to imply this has policy implications, electing an inexperienced guy just because he's likable.

### Flip flopper (abortion swiftboating)

Just watch the ABC debate from 1/5/08. She repeated this charge in various ways, although in fairness she did get into specifics in a few cases (which i think is fair game if you challenge the record itself on the issues). However, for a couple months... this has been her primary charge against him. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530

However, when they intentionally distorted his record on abortion to effectively swiftboat him in NH, that's really the kind of politics the democrats cannot afford in the primary. http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080106/NEWS01/801060396/1043

### Obama is too liberal.

"Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with 'left-wing' intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

### Obama is too conservative.

They claimed he was "unwilling to take a stand on choice." His controversial gay marriage position is a legitimate issue, for sure, but they've tried to paint him as too conservative. http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

### Obama is soft on crime.

"Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges." "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world." All the attacks on his record now are going to be cast in racial terms, unfortunately. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for

[journalist3072]

21. What you posted are NOT facts. They are B.S. op/eds....not facts, my friend

Try again, if you can.

[Essene]

38. Then you didnt read .

Those are all quotes/citations. Those are the facts.

Clearly you don't want to deal with them and would rather write them... and me... off, because you can't face the truth that race baiting has been taking place.

[journalist3072]

42. Yes, I did read your bullshit

And I called it as the bullshit it is.

[Essene]

68. Nah, I dare you to address those point by point. You wont.. You're insincere.

Go ahead... i dare you.

[bellasgrams]

84. I read the speech that B O made at the church today.

BO brought up race over and over, till I stopped reading. If this BS doesn't stop our country will destroy it's self. When B O first decided to run I was all for it. I never realized how the race card whould be played by the blacks. I figured the only problems with a black running would be the KKK types, the rednecks. In other words, white folk. I guess I was wrong. If veryone can't get along how will B O win? He has to have white support. If it tears the ccountry apart it may be many years before a black will run again.

[Essene]

88. Obama brings up race at a MLK day .. and DU folks attack him. oy veh

I mean... seriously...

[NMDemDist2]

13. thanks for your imput. this is one fight I am staying far away from

and this old white woman is confused about the whole race aspect of the contest.

what ever happened to the dream "where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

[journalist3072]

23. Agree totally..eom

[Essene]

28. It's sad. This is why it bothered me...

Bill Clinton was one of my political heroes until a few weeks ago.

Watching him and Hillary RACE BAIT... play dirty politics to push the race issue into the media buzz... having their campaign pushing absurdly racialized statements... THEN PREDICTABLY JUMPING on the first word Obama says to defend himself... then pretending OBAMA is "playing the race card."

That is what happened.

The facts show this very clearly. The media and Clinton diehards are pretending Obama started it, and any defense he makes... and any defense his supporters make... is now written off.

IT IS DISGUSTING.

This is having serious implications for those of us who see it for what it is... including how Bill Clinton kept doing it even after the truce was called. THis is really, really outside the realm of acceptable behavior for democratic presidential candidates in 2008.

Especially for Clintons...

[NMDemDist2]

33. so which black DUer should I believe? seems the Black community is

divided on this one.

and how many have stood up when Hillary is getting bashed with sexist BS right and left?

I dunno, I can't have an opinion on this issue, but if BHO doesn't distance himself from the homophobic haters pretty soon, I'll have to give up on him.

[Essene]

49. Poster's race is NOT the issue. This isnt about race per se

This is about race baiting as a way to gain power, alienate voters, etc.

My concern in the end is that the democratic party is turning off a lot of voters with this insanity, and the kinds of insincere and dishonest flame wars HERE on this forum represent what is comign down the road.

I am NOT "pro-obama." Frankly, I'd rather vote Bloomberg at this point.

The issue is that the Clintons have behaved in a certain way that has changed the tone and nature of the 2008 race. The consequences are still unfolding, but usually when race baiting and race tensions arise... it's the minorities who lose and dont come out to vote.

It's about party principles and voter alienation.

[NMDemDist2]

57. sorry, but i find it really hard to believe that the Clintons are 'race baiters'

they have earned their bona fides with the activists in the Black community over decades of support.

I've heard a lot of bullshit in the 30+ years I've been following politics and the Black community won't be pushed out of the voting booths, they have worked too hard and paid too high a price to allow a little political dust up to drive them away from a right they gave so much to gain.

at least I hope so.

YMMV

[Essene]

71. ME TOO, but the facts are the facts. I never in a million years would have imagined...

The MLK comment.
The shuck n jive comment.
The subtle comment about assassination.
The "hip black male who cant provide" comment.
The latino vs black comments.
The non-stop emphasis on drug history.
The "99 problems and a bitch aint one of them" story.
The subtle Uncle Tom (aka Guess Whos Coming to Dinner" comment.
The "some blacks support obama just because he's black" comment.
The ongoing "muslim" comments.

When you take those and add them to the smears about him being a "fairy tale," just "poetry," "no substance" and such... it all plays into the racialized image and fears.

All these people pretending Obama's camp started making race an issue are apparently naive enough to believe the Obama camp would trash their entire chances because AMERICA IS BARELY READY FOR A BLACK CANDIDATE... let alone one who himself makes race an issue, because we scream "race card" any time a black claims to be a victim.

[Bonobo]

50. And the phrase, Mr. Journalist is "devoid of facts", not "void of facts".

On the other hand, you could say there is a "void between your ears", for example.

BTW, no charge for the writing tip. One pro to another, eh?

[Nedsdag]

78. Esse, journalist3072 has me on ignore because she hates me.

but she had drank so much Clinton Kool Aid, she has to go to Betty Ford for rehab.

She's a sick woman.

[Mz Pip]

10. "some dumb blacks..."

Sheesh. :eyes:

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Essene]

14. Perhaps you missed when Bill Clinton said the other day...

A day after the truce was called:

"There's still some African Americans who support Barack, even though they like Hillary, because they think he is the first African American to have a chance to be president."

Read that objectively and carefully.

It's obnoxious x 100.

[Mz Pip]

18. I don't see

the word "dumb" in there.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Essene]

19. im sure many wouldnt... "see" it.

[emilyg]

87. I don't either.

[Frances]

44. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with

feeling drawn to a first.

I think a lot of Mormons are drawn to Mitt.

A lot of Catholics were drawn to JFK (I was in Mobile, AL during that election and the Catholics there really wanted the first Catholic president).

I am a woman and I would love to have a woman president.

I will take other things into consideration, but, of course, it's good for a group that's never had a member be President to take a good look at one of "their" own.

[Essene]

62. BIll Clinton implied that the blacks supporting Obama only support him because of his race

Read it again, carefully.

"There's still some African Americans who support Barack, even though they like Hillary, because they think he is the first African American to have a chance to be president."

1. All blacks like Hillary
2. but some "still" like Obama
3. (simply) because he's black

That's what President Bill Clinton said the day AFTER the truce. Bill Clinton is an extremely smart man who doesn't make mistakes with words.

[Frances]

70. It sounds to me that Bill is saying the same thing that I am

Some blacks (Catholics, Mormons, women) like other candidates but they will support one of "their" own to break the barrier.

What's wrong with Bill saying this? What's wrong with a person making that choice if "their" candidate is a half-way decent candidate (and Obama is)?

[Essene]

72. Some, yes. That's not what Bill Clinton said... n/t

[Frances]

80. "still SOME African Americans who support Barack,"

This is the quote you provided.

I just don't see what's the big deal here. African Americans have every right to support whomever they want for whatever reason.

I think SOME women are supporting Hillary because she is a woman even though they may think she's the second best candidate. So what?

[Essene]

81. You're giving him credit without looking at what he's really saying

He's saying ALL blacks support Hillary. lol

Just chew on that arrogant comment and sense of entitlement for a moment. Chew on it some more.

The blacks who do not support Hillary (even though they like her)... support Obama because he's black. It's pretty clear to me.

Sure, he even goes on to say: "And there's a lot of women who are voting for Hillary, even though they like Sen. Obama, because they think it would be better if a woman broke the glass ceiling."

In the day after the "truce," he goes out there baiting more discussion on race... and then adding the gender card.

How hard is this to swallow?

[Essene]

82. more bluntly: the day after the truce, he should have not talked about race and gender at ALL

[Skwmom]

65. Because Clinton is trying to convince Blacks that Obama has NO CHANCE

to win (e.g. Hillary and her false hopes accusation). That is why the Clinton campaign is playing the race card.

Martin Luther King was all about HOPE and UNITY. The Clinton are all about the CLINTONS, to hell with the country or the Democratic Party.

[Essene]

75. unfortunately (and the entire party will pay a price for their narcissicm)

It's sad.

This is why i keep wondering about voter turn-out. Folks are may start to tune-out.

[jasmine621]

91. Obama doesn't have a chance. Bill Clinton is still a smart man.

And he is saying what I am saying.

[Cha]

27. I don't know about the

"80%"..just a loud big handful..I think most of see the reality of the situation. Thanks for input on this, Essene..it IS very important.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

83. It's just all the hillarys get

on to dump lies on a thread that points out any truth about the clintons..but, obviously you have to keep within the rules of DU while you're pointing this out.

When the primaries are over..hopefully for me.. Obama will be the candidate and all this will be history..if not then we'll see.

[NJObamaWoman]

31. I've said the same thing about NJ.

I can't speak for everyone in NJ but by going around the state I'm seeing more and more support of Obama. I've even spent time working at the Obama HQ's. While Obama may or may not win NJ on Feb 5 I think people need to begin to worry about NJ because its not a lock that we support HRC. I've seen a ton of support for Obama in some of the major areas of this state such as Newark, Jersey City, Hoboken, Passaic, Paterson, etc.

[Essene]

35. What matters is voter turn-out. Signs on all sides may go up, but let's see if folks vote

Cuz that's the underlying issue.

[NJObamaWoman]

40. My vote may not matter or be big enough proof but this will be my

first Primary. I've voted in the last GE but did not vote in the primary. I think word is getting out there.

[Essene]

73. Voting matters... it's OUR government.

[Onlooker]

47. Tribal loyalties? what kind of racist ignorant talk is that?

Surely, there should be a lot of support for Obama among blacks, just as there are many women who support Clinton. But, it's not a tribal thing. Obama effectively, and smartly exploited some stupid comments by some Clinton people, just as Clinton effectively exploited her gender with her tearful response to a question in NH. That's all part of politics. But, a great many people, will judge the candidates for something other than their race or gender.

What frustrates me is the idea that their candidate is pure as the driven stnow, when all we're seeing is both candidates playing a lot of hard ball. Don't be fooled. The Clinton's have earned a lot of respect in the black community, and they intend to cash in on it, just as Obama intends to cash in on his relative youth, his appeal to Clinton haters, his tolerance of homophobic religious leaders, and so on. It's all politics. It's all a game.

[NMDemDist2]

58. ROFL good luck with the logic thing

IME it doesn't get you far but you are spot on!

:pals:

[Essene]

59. Maybe instead of calling me racist, you might consider how i meant the term "tribal" (lol)

NYC is an extremely HUGE, diverse and complicated city.

1/3 is first generation immigrant. 1/3 or so is from outside NYC.

There are 5 boroughs and hundreds of languages spoken.

Politics in NYC do not break down into any simple categories. Ethnicity, Borough, class, party, language, ideology, religion, gender, etc. These and other factors all come into play.

Indeed... most people here in NYC will not vote based on race.

By "tribal," i mean there are ways in which all those factors overlap with very LOCAL politics in NYC. You can find EXTREMELY strange bedfellows in NYC. You might find Jew and Black local politicians suddenly coordinating against Latino democrat to support a republican. It's all about favors, local politics and very TRIBAL dynamics.

Churches in Harlem are a perfect example.

There are different networks and politically they often conflict head-to-head. Rev Butts is a major player, in that sense, and he's tied into a wider black-latino caucus. I believe Rangel is a direct Butt's guy, and Hillary has tied into this network very directly.

It's a huge hit for Obama for Butt's to endorse Hillary, but IT IS HER TURF after all. =)

The thing is tho... the political leaders don't necessarily represent the feeling on the street, which was my point. And if the people are sick of Hillary suddenly, having their local leaders support her will only cause more tension and disillusionment.

In the end... my concern is how this impacts voter turn-out.

[Cha]

90. I knew what you

meant by tribal but I'm not into faux outrage.

[Little Star]

48. Lets get real. If I lived in Harlem I would be afraid to put up a Hillary

sign.

[Onlooker]

53. That's because you are ignorant of Harlem

Harlem is a thriving, dynamic part of New York City that's perfectly safe to walk around during the day and mostly safe at night. Where did you get your knowledge of Harlem? From Ron Paul or some other racist?

[Essene]

61. (heh) Exactly

[Bonobo]

54. OUCH!! That was NOT a nice thing to say, pal.

[Essene]

60. Nah, it's not like that.

Harlem is very diverse, actually.

It's just that there are a lot of Obama signs for what is basically Clinton turf.

[angie_love]

92. .

racist freak.

[emilyg]

85. So much hate from you.

[Essene]

86. Not really.

I find it strange how somebody calling out the Clintons on their race baiting is "hating."

Yes, i'm extremely disappointed in my Senator... Hillary Clinton. Yes, i'm also extremely disappointed in one of my political heroes, Bill Clinton. They are behaving like the worse stereotypes of power hungry, narcissistic politicians.

[emilyg]

89. I get a strong feeling you're an Obama supporter.