I call BULLSHIT on the claim that "women are turning on Oprah" BULLSHIT

[wndycty]

How is this measured? By postings on her website. LOL Are websites one woman one vote?

Do we even know that all the posts come from individual women who watch her show religiously without a political agenda?

Let's acknowledge there is most likely a significant number of women who are upset with her. But what percentage of these posts come from supporters of other political candidates?

What percentage of these posts come people who posted multiple times under different names?

What percentage of these posts come from men (the article did claim it was "women" who were turning on Oprah)?

What percentage of these posts came from folks who have always hated Oprah, never watch her show, and just used this as an excuse to make negative posts on her website?

Show me some real stats of women turning on Oprah, like a ratings decline or the fact that her products or the products she endorses are experiencing a decline in sales.

MORE IMPORTANTLY: She campaigned in Iowa, New Hampshire and S.C. Obama won Iowa, had a strong showing in N.H. and has moved up in the polls in S.C. Also, Obama's numbers in Black community have sky rocketed since Oprah endorsed and appeared with him.

So are we really to believe there is a backlash.

BEWARE OF BULLSHIT SUBJECTIVE HEADLINES.

[acmavm]

1. It certainly could be bullshit. They could be like me. I never gave a damn

what Oprah thinks.

[Adelante]

5. I never did, either

But we who never gave a damn what Oprah thinks wouldn't be swarming her website.

[acmavm]

8. No we wouldn't. But maybe that's what the women who are 'swarming'

her website are telling her.

[wndycty]

9. I disagree. . .

. . .I betcha a ton of political opportunists who never really had an opinion of Oprah suddenly developed an opinion for political purposes.

[H2O Man]

10. Correct.

It is an organized campaign for show only.

[Adelante]

12. Okay, I agree with that

I was talking about people who really don't give a damn, which excludes the suddenly and cynically opinionated.

[dailykoff]

2. Welcome to Hillaryworld.

The best astroturf corporate money can buy.

[suston96]

3. Settle down. We will keep looking at the woman vote and see what happens.

If you were a regular watcher of Oprah, you would know that she promoted and displayed herself as an aggressive feminist. (You go, girlfriend).

No more! She made her choice between sex and race and she must live with it.

[wndycty]

7. So you are saying that if she supported Hillary she would have made a choice. . .

. . .between sex and race, and us Black folks would have been justified in turning on her? So what about all the other feminists who support Obama have they made a choice between "sex and race" as well?

[suston96]

13. Yes. It is about sex and race. There is no denying that.

And I do not fault black folks voting as they do, and women doing the same. It's human nature.

Feminists supporting Obama? Sorry, not in large enough numbers. Check the exit polls.

[wndycty]

16. So you are you saying a Black feminist must choose Hillary or she is no longer a feminist?

So is my mom no longer feminist? Are other Black feminists who support Obama sell outs as well.

Go ahead keep digging your hole.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wndycty]

23. OK, you just used the phrase "colored folks" I have to ask are you African American?

Just out of curiosity.

And who the hell are you to tell Oprah what to do? She has no rights to speak out on behalf of the candidate she supports? You sound very Republican with a statement like that.

[suston96]

26. You used the phrase "colored folks" yourself up above.

None of your business what I am. "African American" is becoming unacceptable. "Person of color" is more appropriate - so I have heard from pundits of color on TV.

Oprah can speak out on anything she wants but she does so as an enormously public figure and always at the risk of that public persona doing the wrong thing.

The public reaction to her stand with Obama is evidence that she made a huge mistake.

[wndycty]

28. I did? Where did I use "colored folks?" I'm scanning can't find it. . .

. . .can you give me a link to where I used the term "colored folks."

[suston96]

31. You used "black folks". Sorry about that. But what does it matter?

This is about Oprah Winfrey and your statement denying that women are pissed at her. Well, deny all you want. Those women are still angry at her for turning on them, as they turn to Hillary in droves and will continue to do so.

That is why she is winning these primaries - women - and that includes many women "of color" also.

[wndycty]

32. Using the termed "colored" when refering to Black folks is offensive. . .

. . .people or women of color is completely different than referring to someone as "colored." Any enlightened individual should know that.

[suston96]

34. The folks of color that I know have never been offended by my calling them ANYTHING at all..

...because they know me. And if you knew me we wouldn't be having this pointless digression to this conversation.

The exit polling and pre-election polling are recording women of all "colors" flocking to Hillary Clinton and that movement started long before Oprah Winfrey leading the Obama charge a few months ago. "Quit shoving Obama down our throats" they were saying.

Is she totally responsible for this woman movement? No. Hillary is a politically attractive female candidate. Just what women wanted. And now is their time.

[wndycty]

36. For you to call my taking exception to you using the phrase "colored folks" pointless is offensive

. . .coming from a feminist. I would think that as a feminist you would be very careful to understand and respect the sensitivities of all people.

Just because you are feminist does not relieve you of the responsibility to be sensitive of other folks.

[suston96]

39. You are still digressing from your topic points. And I repeat, you are the only one .....

...in my long and dreary life who has ever complained about my racial sensitivities.

Still has nothing to do with your topic about Oprah. Get back to that and leave my sensitivities to me. They have never failed me and they haven't now either.

[wndycty]

40. This sub thread is now about your use of the term "colored"

If you want to address the topic of the OP meet me down thread. You can change the subject all you want, but had I used an equally offensive term for women you would have had the same reaction.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

48. "Colored folks" Jesus H. Christ

You certainly did just reveal yourself. Not pretty. Sick.

[IndianaJones]

49. "colored" is a racist term. nt.

[goldcanyonaz]

51. Sustan, one doesn't know what's in ones heart by reading posts on a message board, but the term...

Colored people is a huge step backwards for Black Americans who have been segregated by our race. One needs to only look back a few years to remember the "colored people" only drinking fountains, restaurants, etc.

Please try to choose your more carefully next time.

Thank you.

[juno jones]

37. ew,

so as a woman I am SUPPOSED to support Hil? And a black man Obama, and a black woman, well, she must decide, but sisterhood is powerful, eh? SICK, SICK, SICK! I am a white female who is more interested in Obama than Clinton, more interested in Edwards than either of the other two and really wishing Dennis had a fucking chance. AND I am a feminist. Have been all my fucking life (had a mother that campaigned for ERA). How dare anybody insinuate that we must vote along racial or sexual parameters. This is exactly what we fought against in the 60's and 70's.

[wndycty]

38. My point exactly. . .

. . .not to discount the African Americans who support Obama because he is Black and the women who support Hillary because she is woman. That is fine. But to call a woman who supports Obama or African Americans who support Hillary sellouts or traitors is wrong.

[suston96]

41. Where did anyone say you are "supposed to" or you "must" vote for anyone?

[saltpoint]

4. It's true. Not a moment ago, we glanced out the window and what did we see?

-- an angry mob of the nation's women chasing poor Oprah down the street, shouting angry, vulgar slogans, brandishing weaponry of all kinds -- guns, knives, scythes, ground-to-air missiles. Packs of ravenous attack dogs bayed horribly. The sky grew dark with locusts.

The mob would not be redirected, even by all the deities on Olympus, I dare say.

It's clear Oprah does not have long to live.

[robbedvoter]

19. Were there pitchforks? Torches?

[saltpoint]

20. There were. It was a scene of apocalytic rage. Terrible were the screams.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

6. Well, I would have called BS on that title without bothering to read the article.

The pundits are going crazy in the Speculatorium (thanks, TDS writer!) and making up stuff as they go along.

There was supposedly an "Oprah" effect and now there is supposedly an "Oprah" backlash. Sounds like something coming from the nether regions of a vacuous talking head.

God, these people get paid how much to make idiotic pronouncements? :eyes: MKJ

[durrrty libby]

11. I recently read that Ellen has overtaken Oprah in ratings. That seemed

odd

[splat]

14. I thought you meant "turning on (the TV to watch) Oprah" lol

[RestoreGore]

15. I don't give a damn about Oprah, so this woman isn't turning on her or with her

The fact her opinion even matters more than any other woman's is a joke to me.

[goldcanyonaz]

17. I saw a lady get smacked down at the grocery store for looking though an O magazine in line.

:sarcasm:

[wndycty]

21. As a Black woman supporting Hillary see post #13, I'd like your opinion.

Now my mom, sister, cousins, and tons of friends are Black women supporting Obama do you think they are sell outs to the feminists movement? For the record my mom and one of my cousins (who is a judge in Seattle) are definitely feminists activists. Should they be considered sell outs?

They are very smart women who are active, is fair to say they choose race over sex? Or are they supporting the candidate they feel is the best.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4127454&mesg_id=4127585

[Jai4WKC08]

46. I think there are two groups that have to be considered differently

By the way, I'm a white woman supporting Hillary, so I'm probably butting in here where I'm not invited, but it seems like an appropriate place.

Anyway, back to the subject. There are those of us who follow politics fairly closely. We know the issues. We know more than average about the candidates, their character, their strengths and weaknesses, and the people who advise them. We do not much care about what Oprah says, and we do not, in general, look at each others as "sell outs" because some of support one candidate or another.

I'm thinking right now of three VERY good friends I have here at DU, all of whom I have also met in "real life." One is a black woman for Obama, one is a white woman for Obama, and one is a black woman for Clinton. At the risk of speaking for them (but they can correct me if I'm wrong), I would bet money that none of us think of any of the others as sell outs, or having chosen race over gender, or gender over race. We just see different qualities in the candidates, draw different conclusions from what we see, have different priorities for what we want in a president, and in some cases perceive the events of this nominating process differently for a variety of reasons. I won't tell you that race and gender don't matter -- we're human, after all -- but I honestly don't think they are any sort of determining factor.

But then you have the vast majority of rank & file voters who don't know near as much about the candidates or the issues, and get most of their information from TV, newspapers, and the rest of the corporate media. They are the ones who determine election results. Many of them are voting for Clinton because she's a woman, or Obama because he's a black man. Not all of them, of course, but enough that you get primary/caucus results that show a large majority of women for Hillary, and a large majority of African Americans for Obama.

I would NOT call anyone a sell out for choosing based on the opposing characteristic, but I do think they have decided to give one characteristic priority over the other. Or, in many cases, the race or gender is just the tipping point when they can't really decide based on what they know (usually very little) about the individuals. Even that would be enough to influence election results significantly.

I think these women could be influenced by Oprah to support Obama (or at least to get out to see him, and that's half the battle any candidate has), but they are also the ones who might harbor resentment toward Oprah for "abandoning" Clinton as the woman in the race. Assuming there really has been a letter writing campaign to get her to back off, I think it's sort of wishful thinking to assume that it's a product of the Hillary campaign. There really are people out there who care about these things. I'm guessing most of the writers are white women, but if Oprah had endorsed Clinton, there would have been just as many letters (proportionately) from black women.

One thing that's important to remember, imo. People who think Hillary Clinton is OBVIOUS a poor choice for our nominee are far more likely to assume race or gender is the reason people are backing her. But the same is true for Obama. I think all we need to recognize that there are very good reasons for supporting either candidate, as well as very good reasons to oppose either one -- they are both good, talented people, but neither one is the perfect candidate. We should respect each other when we draw different conclusions and make different choices.

[robbedvoter]

18. Totally agree with you. Women may want Hillary - but that has NOTHING to do

with Oprah. She definitely helped raise Obama's profile - when he needed it.
If women got angered by anyone, it wasn't Oprah, nor Obama - but Tweety & comp and their ugly sexist attacks.

[Tellurian]

33. Yes, the media has had a field day polarizng democrats

The fact remains, Oprah's popularity is firmly based in "women's issues" not color. It's understandable women would feel outrage and betrayed because Oprah is clearly supporting Obama based on race. If Michelle were the presidential candidate, then I would say Oprah's support would be fair and expected by women of all colors.

[1corona4u]

24. I use to watch her ....

but not any more. Perhaps I will visit her boards too....

[robbedvoter]

25. Question: Are women turning Oprah on?

:shrug:

[madrchsod]

27. mark penn found out that oprah viewers loved clinton

bill clinton that is...if there was a huge backlash oprah, she would`t have her own network.

[durrrty libby]

29. Women are the silent majority of voters. They are turning out and will turn out

in record numbers to take Hillary over the top and to the WH

Count on it

[wndycty]

30. Even if that is the case, how are women turning on Oprah?

If her ratings stay where they are? If the products she promotes still sell? How are they turning on Oprah?

[durrrty libby]

35. I didn't say they were turning on her. I said that I read Ellen overtook

Oprah in ratings, so that may mean something

I had been a fan of Oprah since she started out, but less so the last

few years.

I was disappointed when she joined the Obama train, because I felt she lied

Back in 05 Hillary presented Oprah with an Emmy. During Oprah's acceptance speech

Oprah told Hillary it would be awesome if she ran for president and gave the impression she would support her.She made a big deal out of it

So although she can support anyone she wants, I understand why some women may feel betrayed

I am not so angry that I would go post on her board, but then again I never have posted there

I would describe my feelings toward her as cooled.

[stravu9]

43. I Haven't Liked Oprah for YEARS!

So whatever.

[suston96]

44. Moved from a pointless sub-thread on semantical bullshit...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3216586.ece

January 20, 2008
Women turn on ‘traitor’ Oprah Winfrey for backing Barack Obama
Oprah fans leave a barrage of negative messages on her official website in response to the talk show host's support of Obama

Tony Allen-Mills, New York

AMERICA’S favourite television presenter is paying a painful price for her intervention in the US presidential campaign last month. Oprah Winfrey has been dubbed a “traitor” by some of her female fans for supporting Barack Obama instead of Hillary Clinton.

Winfrey’s website, Oprah.com, has been flooded with a barrage of abuse since the queen of daytime chat shows joined Obama on a tour of Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina in mid-December.

Her intervention was widely credited with broadening Obama’s national appeal - especially among women - and with helping him to an upset victory over Clinton in the first vote of the election year in Iowa.

Yet a backlash by Clinton supporters appears to have prompted a rethink by Winfrey, the African-American media titan who is routinely described as the most influential woman on television.

She did not reappear in the final days before the New Hampshire primary - which Obama lost to Clinton - and has been absent from the most recent campaigning in South Carolina, which votes next weekend.

[wndycty]

45. Tell me how this demonstrates that women are turning on Oprah?

Is there qualitative support? Polls, TV ratings, declining sales?

[suston96]

47. No. None of that at all. It must be a baseless rumor. That is why Oprah can be seen...

...at Obama's side at all his recent appearances as she campaigns aggressively for him.

[undercoverduer]

50. It was never planned for her to be by his side everyday. . .

. . .she has a job! The only celeb by a candidates side on a daily basis is Chuck Norris with Mike Huckabee.

BTW check the poll I posted on the term "colored."

[suston96]

52. Yeah, Oprah has a job and she would lose all those paychecks and we all know she....

....can't afford to lose a paycheck. LMAO!

Polls on DU are not my favorites. Sorry, I have my sensitivities.

[wndycty]

53. You still have not demonstrated how women are turning on Oprah

:kick:

[suston96]

54. Yeah, I know. I guess you just can't trust anything I say.....

I read these reports and hear or see them on TV and I believe everything I see or read.

http://www.mediacynic.com/cgi-bin/mediacynic.pl?cynic=1214071

The Oprah-Obama Backlash
December 14, 2007

Apparently not all of Oprah Winfrey's fans are happy about her decision to support Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton for president. Some feel that Oprah should be supporting the woman in the race -- not a man -- and have accused her of supporting Barack solely because he is black. Many of Oprah's fans have made their feelings known on her website: one post already has nearly 5,000 comments.

Not exactly a scientific sample, but there's a very, very lively discussion of Oprah's endorsement and its racial implications underway on Oprah's site, with a comment titled "OPRAH IS A TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!" getting 4,988 comments, with thousands more under other posts.

The original post:

"I cannot believe that women all over this country are not up in arms over Oprah's backing of Obama. For the first time in history, we actually have a shot at putting a woman in the white house and Oprah backs the black MAN. She's choosing her race over her gender- hypocracy at it's finest!! Oprah- you should be ashamed of yourself!!!!!"

So I'll admit that I am wrong and that Oprah's blog with all those angry bloggers is just something I dreamed up.

[krabigirl]

55. I've always detested Oprah.

But the incident in Paris where she demanded that Hermes stay open for her late arrival to the store sealed the deal. Yuck.

[wndycty]

56. And how is that relevant to the OP?

:shrug:

[suston96]

57. Where does it come from? Try this one......

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23081010-663,00.html

Women help Hillary Clinton grab prize

HISPANIC and women voters have helped Senator Hillary Clinton hit the jackpot in Nevada to break the deadlock in the Democratic race for the White House.

*****

Senator Obama captured the majority of African-American voters and won over the youth vote.

But Hispanic voters, who made up about 15 per cent of those at the caucuses, overwhelmingly backed Senator Clinton. She again enjoyed a critical boost from women, who had been drafted to the Obama camp by talk show queen Oprah Winfrey.

Female voters came back to Senator Clinton in New Hampshire after she revealed a softer side in a teary moment, and stayed with her in Nevada.

[wndycty]

58. Again, that is subjective

Where is the quantitative data?

[suston96]

60. Quantitative what? Sorry, that doesn't mean anything to me.

If it's on cable news or on the blogs that's good enough for me.

But you feel free to believe that all those posts - 5,000 of them are all imaginary. 5000 posts? That quantitative enough?

[mod mom]

59. Exactly BS. Clintons have adopted rovian techniques trying to reframe issues.

Win at any cost.

[Desertrose]

61. IMHO....Oprah jumped the shark a LONG time ago.

This has nothing to do with her politics- thats her right & choice....I just see how much she has changed over the past 20+ years ...I think her ego must be well fed these days.


(Loved her back when she was in Balto (WJZ?) with Richard Shere....)