Watching the way things are playing out in the Media. Nevada is a draw

[Quixote1818]

and may help Obama more than Clinton. It seems all the articles are moving toward how Obama and Clinton both won Nevada but they are focusing on how Obama did so. By the end of the week it may seem more like an Obama win than a Clinton win for this reason. Factor in a win in SC for Obama and he will have the momentum.

Frankly I am stunned Nevada was this close. I thought Clinton would run away with it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. Clinton 51% / Obama 45%

Nice spin, tho.

[DJ13]

2. Not long ago Obama was behind by 25%

Nice spin, tho.

[BenDavid]

32. and if you really thought hrc would maintain that big a lead then

maybe you should go to vegas and get into a 5 card stud game and go all in only with a 10 high......

[JackORoses]

3. Obama13, Hillary 12

nice spin, though

[MADem]

11. Uncommitted delegates. Nice spin, though! NT

[JackORoses]

31. what do you mean uncommitted delegates?

25 Delegates will be pledged from NV.
8 unpledged (superdelegates) are also awarded but they have no relation to the Caucus result from today.

Of the pledged delegates,
13 go to Obama, 12 go to Hillary.
Just because the official awarding ceremony hasn't happened doesn't mean the numbers won't stand.


In fact, the state party is now admitting that if Obama and Clinton both remain in the race until April 2008,
the calculated total will be correct.

Check it out:

"But hold on, folks. The Nevada Democratic Party just issued this clarification (emphasis is ours): "No national convention delegates were awarded. That said, if the delegate preferences remain unchanged between now and April 2008, the calculations of national convention delegates being circulated by the Associated Press are correct. We look forward to our county and state conventions where we will choose the delegates for the nominee that Nevadans support."

What does this mean? It looks like the Obama camp's math (as well as the AP's and NBC's) is correct. "

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/

*

Nice spin, though!

[MADem]

43. Those delegates don't have to dance with the one what brung 'em, is what I am saying.

They can change their votes if they so choose. They aren't LOCKED IN--to either Obama OR Clinton. You can "award" all you want, but those delegates don't have to go along with the program if they don't want to.

Starting to get a sense of why caucus systems suck? Not only are voters disenfranchised, but winners are treated like Al Gore!

Fuck the Winner, We're Taking These Anyway!! Now THAT's a nice spin! I'll betcha that those delegates don't stand by their man/woman, but instead, 'Go with the flow' depending on who breaks out--if either one does.

[JackORoses]

53. Technically the Delegates awarded based on a Primary could switch, as well

So your notion is not specific to Caucuses.

"but instead, 'Go with the flow' depending on who breaks out--if either one does."

exactly, if Obama breaks out he gets them all
and if it's a close race, he gets the 13

The point being, as of today, he has won more of Nevada's delegates.

[MADem]

71. Dean was 'estimated' to have five delegates to John Kerry's nineteen.

Guess how many Dean delegates the state Party sent to the Convention?

ZERO.

The party picks 'em, not the candidates. And they only picked KERRY candidates to go, once they saw he was "The Man." Even though Dean had 'earned' five--they simply TOOK them, and reassigned them. That's how their system works.

Obama hasn't won any delegates yet, because no delegates have been selected. Clinton hasn't won any delegates either.

The only thing she won was the CAUCUS.

It's nothing more than an estimate, that could change at the party's WHIM, really.

Hell, the NATION article I cited elsewhere breaks it down. And they're in OBAMA's corner, having endorsed him, so I think Obama-ites can trust their assessment of the situation.

[JackORoses]

86. I'll say it again

If Obama is the de facto nominee by April, he will get all NV delegates.
If Hillary is the de facto nominee by April, she will get all the delegates.

But if the contest is close, the delegates will be apportioned based on today's results.

Deny it if you wish. This will not change the facts.

[MADem]

92. If the contest is BROKERED, not close.

Once a candidate gets two thousand and twenty five electoral votes, even if another candidate gets the rest of the pie, they get all of those Nevada votes, too.

That is how Nevada rolls.

[papau]

40. Looks like Hillary's pledged delegate count lead stands at 210 Hillary to 115 Obama to 46 Edwards

33 delegates in NV of which 12 for H and 13 for O have been awarded - The remaining eight unpledged delegates are chosen from party leaders. Sixteen of the 25 delegates were allocated proportionally to presidential candidates based on the support for the candidates in each of the state’s three Congressional districts, and Nine delegates were allocated to candidates based on the support among all of the delegates attending the convention.

Super-delegates that are pledged are now 77-170-28 (the AP counts 98-200-34 - - while CBS counts it as 88-195-41 and CNN says 85-174-34) without Michigan and Florida http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/when-superdelegate-isnt-so-super.html).

demconwatch therefore reports the 1/19 post NV situation as 115-210-46 without Michigan and Florida

The 45 SC delegates should split no "worse" than 25 to 15 to 5 in favor of Obama.

So the 38-36-18 current split before super-delagates should be around 63-51-23 going into 1/29 Florida and then 2/5.

So I expect Obama to improve after SC so as to make the delegate race 140 (O) to 225 (H) to 39 (E)

This may be a long race.

[JackORoses]

84. Superdelegates mean nothing until Convention time.

They swing to the likely nominee.

[Quixote1818]

4. Gore 51 Bush 49. Bush wins electoral collage. And your point? nt

[rodeodance]

16. What is your point?

[MADem]

30. I think that poster is saying "Fuck the will of the people--it's uncommitted delegates who are free

to change their votes who are the DECIDERS, here!!"

:rofl:

There is a likely reason those delegates are unseated AND uncommitted--it's a fucking CAUCUS. The Party in NV likely wants to see what happens on Super Tuesday before they get the show on the road!

[JackORoses]

38. unofficial is not the same as uncommitted

If Obama is still in the race, he will get his 13 delegates

The Nevada Democratic Party has said as much.

You act as if the Caucus that happened today has no bearing on who the delegates are apportioned for. You are wrong.

[MADem]

56. Here. This is from THE NATION. They endorsed OBAMA, FWIW.

The Obama campaign, stung by a loss in a state they had really hoped to win, is now trying to spin a line that it won more delegates to this summer's Democratic Narional Convention. There is no reason to deny them their claim that, under the arcane weighting rules for delegate selection, the Illinois senator's strong showing in more conservative rural areas could end up giving him more delegates come summer. But nor is there any guarantee that the process will play out as they predict.

The truth is that no one knows which campaign will get the most national convention delegates, as Saturday's precinct caucuses were only the beginning of a process that will continue through county caucuses in February and a state convention in April. It is only at that state convention in April when the national convention delegation will be selected, at a point when there will be an inclination to get on board with the candidate who looks like the winner. (In 2004, for instance, John Kerry won 63 percent of the vote on caucus night in February, and the media estimated that he had won 19 national convention delegates Kerry versus 5 for Howard Dean. At the Nevada state convention in April, only Kerry delegates were selected for the national convention, where the senator from Massachusetts got all the state's delegate votes.)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080120/cm_thenation/45272844



But hey, whatever. Keep flapping your gums!! Nice spin!!

[JackORoses]

69. the crux of this argument is that Hillary has become the nominee and Obama is out

That is the comparison that is being made with Kerry and the 2004 race.
But the reason these delegates went to Kerry is because he was already the Party's choice.

If Obama and Hillary are both in the race by April, the delegates will be apportioned as stated, 13 to 12.

[MADem]

76. No, that's not the crux of the argument at all. The NATION endorsed OBAMA, fachrissake

All the Kerry comparison is doing is showing tools who don't get how the system works, how it works. It isn't 'suggesting' anything beyond what happens when a winner is chosen.

Jesus.

I think we'll have a candidate by April, unless the whole shebang is split totally down the middle. Super Tuesday may well tell the tale. If we have to wait until the Pennsylvania primary, with their ninety six delegates, well, that may result in the apportionment of NV delegates--but even at that, the loser's delegates won't go to the convention. The party will only send delegates that support the winner. See the Dean example cited in the article.

[JackORoses]

82. what does an endorsement have to do with anything?

The point they make bringing up Kerry is that all the delegates switched to him because he was already the de facto nominee.

I think you may be one of those tools who don't understand how the system works.

This is as clear as I can make it.

Based on the results of today's Caucus, Obama has won 13 delegates.

As long as he doesn't drop out of the race, they are his.

[MADem]

89. No, they didn't switch. The party 'selected' ONLY KERRY delegates to attend.

It's rather fucked up there. The candidate doesn't "own" the delegates. The party makes the pick.

Fine, you want to believe that little mantra you keep typing out in bold script, you go ahead. Wrap it around your heart like a blanky.

Because if he doesn't bring it all the way home, those 'thirteen imaginary delegates' aren't going anywhere. They aren't going to be PICKED, see?

And he can stay in all the way to the Convention, if someone else brings home the Nominating Number (2025) of Delegates, they get all of the Nevada pile, too. And the loser, despite earning them, gets nothing.

[JackORoses]

106. If it is not 13 O - 12 H than why is that what the MSM & AP have accepted?

Who cares if someone else gets the delegates if Obama doesn't make it until the Convention?
That is a complete Red Herring.

All we care about is the scenario where Obama is in at the Convention.

If he is at the Convention, those 13 NV delegates will count toward his 2025.

You must admit that this is the truth.

That is why this is a Victory.

[MADem]

112. Same reason "they" estimated it was Kerry Nineteen, Dean, FIVE.

Yet when the party met, all of the delegates selected to go to the Convention were KERRY delegates. All twenty four of them.

If Obama is 'at the convention,' (and by that I assume you mean he got the nomination) he will not have thirteen delegates, he will have twenty five.

Dean was 'at' the Convention. Guess how many of the five "estimated" delegates he had with him? NONE. He DID have delegates with him, about a hundred, but NV delegates were not "awarded" to him by the party. Why? Because he was the LOSER.

One more time....NO DELEGATES have been "awarded." They won't be for a couple of months.

NV doesn't SAY it, but it is, in effect, and absent a brokered convention, a "winner take all" state.

This is neither a "red herring" nor a "victory."

You should ask someone near and dear to you to give you a thesaurus and a dictionary for your next birthday. You apparently have challenges interpreting definitions and meanings.

[rodeodance]

10. There was a time when the POPULAR vote was highly respected on DU.

[wisteria]

88. Obama had been way, way behind. Sen. Reid's son was co-chair of the Clinton campaign there too.

They have had an organization up and running for some time. How would it of looked if Reid's son couldn't deliver Nevada for Clinton?

[HughMoran]

5. Oh give it a fucking break

I've never heard such pathetic whining in my entire life. I can't hide the fucking whining posts fast enough!

[Quixote1818]

7. I am an Edwards supporter. But nice try. nt

[HughMoran]

13. So you just can't stop posting on this topic?

[Quixote1818]

19. Cute baby!

:hi: :beer:

[HughMoran]

I like them better when they're smiling

:donut:

[Barack_America]

6. This is good news. And thanks a lot for following this story! n/t

:toast:

[HughMoran]

15. .

[MADem]

8. I thought Obama was supposed to win, since he got the Culinary Workers Union AND those At Large

Caucus sites. Clinton was supposed to be FUCKED, at least that was the spin last week...

That's a fine one-eighty there, though! Shocked, shocked, that there's gambling, too?

[sandnsea]

14. He did win the delegate count

but he won it in rural Nevada. Go figure.

[MADem]

21. Well, he "won" a bunch of uncommitted delegates who won't be seated for a month or two.

And they're free to change their votes if they'd like.

He didn't win the caucus.

His opponent did.

[sandnsea]

25. The delegates are loyal to their candidate

and will not change their votes unless their candidate releases them. He won Nevada. Deal with it.

[GalleryGod]

36. Our friend speaks of Super Delegates, to wit Congressmen. Who are much like

"reeds in a breeze". Be of good cheer, sandandsea, THIS was a CLASSIC "Insurgent Victory" (Think Tet Offensive)

[sandnsea]

44. No, they are conflating one with the other

to muddy the water, pretending that all of the delegates will float around. That isn't true until we actually get to Denver, but it's a fun game for them to play until we get there. What would be the point of these elections at all if there wasn't some indication the elected delegates would stick to the votes they were intended to cast.

[MADem]

80. Super Delegates aren't the issue. YET.

Nice spin, though.

[MADem]

67. What a load of horseshit!! That's totally off the page. Here, read this

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080120/cm_thenation/45272844

The truth is that no one knows which campaign will get the most national convention delegates, as Saturday's precinct caucuses were only the beginning of a process that will continue through county caucuses in February and a state convention in April. It is only at that state convention in April when the national convention delegation will be selected, at a point when there will be an inclination to get on board with the candidate who looks like the winner. (In 2004, for instance, John Kerry won 63 percent of the vote on caucus night in February, and the media estimated that he had won 19 national convention delegates Kerry versus 5 for Howard Dean. At the Nevada state convention in April, only Kerry delegates were selected for the national convention, where the senator from Massachusetts got all the state's delegate votes.)

It's from a publication that endorsed OBAMA. FWIW.

Your assertion could not be further from the truth. The delegates will go with the strength, AND they don't even have to stick with the one whut brung 'em. There weren't any Nevada DEAN delegates at the national convention, were there? The PARTY controls the delegates--NOT the candidates.

Sheesh!

See why caucuses suck? They're disenfranchising AND they disrespect the participants who attend them! A waste of fucking time, really!

[sandnsea]

74. Everybody dropped out in 2004

The only two candidates by April were Kucinich and Kerry. That's why no delegates from other candidates were chosen. That isn't currently true. If nobody concedes between now and the state convention, the delegates will be chosen according to today's caucus.

[MADem]

78. Dean HAD delegates, though, even after he dropped out.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P04/D.phtml

But NEVADA steals the delegates from the losers and ASSIGNS them to the winner. That is what makes their charming 'caucus' system so .... UNIQUE.

Dean had no SAY in the matter. He went to the Convention with his lousy hundred or so delegates, but NONE of them were from Nevada. Because Nevada ripped him off.

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

81. A candidate drops out

and a state recognizes that reality and doesn't vote in any delegates. That's theft. Okeedokey then. :crazy:

[MADem]

85. I'm sure if Kucinich had ten delegates, and the convention was

brokered, and those ten would make a difference, it sure as FUCK would matter.

To the Kucinich supporters, anyway.

You're not really up on this stuff, are you? You talk a good game, but you're a bit short on the details.

[sandnsea]

87. Kucinich didn't win any delegates in NV

Dean DROPPED OUT. He was not running any more. A state doesn't need to vote for delegates for a candidate who DROPPED OUT.

[MADem]

90. Dean showed up at the Convention with a hundred some odd delegates.

Or didn't you bother to look at the link I provided. Naaah, you didn't.

He should have had FIVE MORE, from Nevada.

But they were TAKEN from him, by the Party. And five Kerry delegates were sent instead.

[sandnsea]

94. Because states had already voted for those delegates

Dean was still running when those states voted for their delegates, or they were just stubborn people. When Nevada voted, Dean had dropped out.

[MADem]

99. No. Dean was 'awarded' (by the MEDIA, just like Obama was) five delegates.

However, the NV Party machine took Dean's delegates and threw them out, and instead, gave five KERRY delegates to Kerry.

It's not the same in NV. The PARTY makes the assignments. The candidates do NOT "control" or "release" their delegates.
It's up to the party machine to make the determinations.

Dean showed up at the convention with the delegates he was allowed to keep. He had dropped out, but he still had delegates.

Nevada didn't let him keep the five he "earned."

[sandnsea]

95. Dean wasn't even on the ballot in Oregon

because by May, he had DROPPED OUT.

[MADem]

97. One more time--he showed UP at the convention with DELEGATES

He had "earned" five from NV, but the NV party TOOK THEM.

You're insisting that Obama has "earned" thirteen, but if he doesn't bring it to the nom, he LOSES them.

Not all states STEAL the delegates and assign them to the person who has received two thousand and twenty five delegates.

NV does.

The person who reaches that magic number is going to get ALL of the NV delegates.

[sandnsea]

98. but nobody has 2025 delegates today

Which is what I said way way up in this thread. Besides the fact, Dean Dropped Out. No state had any obligation to vote for a candidate who DROPPED OUT.

Geez louise.

[MADem]

100. But they might sooner than you think. Have you had a look at the primaries that

are taking place in FEBRUARY ALONE?

We're not IN a prolonged primary season anymore. Even my state moved up the primary so we could do the SUPER TUESDAY thing.

This is likely to be a truncated event, and the handwriting may well be on the wall before the Nevada Party Machine has their little git-together.

And if that is the case, the person with two thousand and twenty five votes will get ALL of those Nevada delegates.

As for Dean and his delegates, every state has different rules. Some states have hard and fast delegates, who are only released by the candidate. EVEN if the candidate has dropped out. If that were NOT the case, Dean wouldn't have showed up at the Convention with ANY delegates, now, would he have? But he DID show up with delegates, so your facts, again, are in error.

Geez Louise, yourself. You make up rules and then get pissed when people correct you.

[sandnsea]

101. But they don't today and today Obama has 13 NV delegates

I am not making up rules. That's the way it is today. These delegates will not go anywhere unless their candidate is no longer in the race. If an opponent is at 2025 delegates, you'd have to be a fool to continue. Their delegates will go to their opponent. They arent being stolen. Either at the state level or once the candidate releases them, they're going to go to the winner.

[MADem]

102. He has a hope of 13--maybe. And if he doesn't hit 2025, he'll have ZERO.

And if he hits that number, he'll have TWENTY FIVE and Clinton will have ZERO.

Those delegates will go to the nominee if he doesn't hit that magic number. He doesn't 'release' them, the party makes the decision.

Candidates are not required to give up their delegates from other contests, even if they drop out. You're suggesting they do. Often, AT THE CONVENTION, for a SHOW OF UNITY, they release them, but frequently, they don't. You are suggesting otherwise and that just isn't correct.

The way the NV Democratic Party manages their affairs is NOT normal or typical.

Here, read this AGAIN: http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080120/cm_thenation/45272844

And keep in mind THE NATION has endorsed Obama while you are reading it...

[sandnsea]

103. Today he has 13

If there isn't a clear winner in April, he'll have 13. If there is a clear winner, who gives a shit? Nofrickinbody.

[MADem]

105. He has a hope of 13. There ARE no delegates yet. In actuality, he has either 0 or 25. NT

[sandnsea]

107. If there's no clear winner, he'll have 13 n/t

[MADem]

108. I'm betting on a clear winner. NT

[ZinZen]

96. In 04 Kerry was virtually unstoppable

from the get go. This race is very different.

[sandnsea]

9. Obama won rural NV

And that is really the big story out of NV. We'll see if the media tells it, or shills for hil.

[Barack_America]

37. Undoubtedly due to the "independent Democrats"...n/t

[medeak]

you got that right baby

all day I was telling everyone...the mass media is wrong...I talked to every one up north and it was Obama...and....rurals have more votes..

so..pray tell (as getting totally drunk) has the mass media even caught up yet that they were wrong?

[sandnsea]

64. Roy Jones Jr

:shrug:

There are times I just don't even think about changing the channel. :)

[rodeodance]

12. Clinton is a ROLL: 3:1---live with it.

[HughMoran]

17. This is the most sickening night ever huh?

[Quixote1818]

22. Right back at you!

:rofl:

[MADem]

23. ....

:rofl:

[sandnsea]

27. Delegates matter, rules are rules

Get over it.

[HughMoran]

29. 1 delegate = 0.02% of all delegates!!

[sandnsea]

33. And the most delegates wins!!

[HughMoran]

35. Hey, I agree with that :D

[GalleryGod]

42. I for one will certainly love it! Why? Because THIS victory is a CLASSIC INSURGENT victory!

I have a little face-to-face experience going head-to-head with an insurgency...you want to run and hide from it,Friend. Run. and.hide.

[MADem]

83. Oh wow, a tough guy! Does that make you feel cool, telling people to run and hide on a political

message board?

How fucking lame!

:rofl:

Insurgency, my ass--Nevada will assign all of their delegates to the person who gets the most delegates elsewhere. Unless this is a brokered convention, NV will send a "unanimous" delegation to the Convention. And it will matter not how many delegates the loser got--those delegates aren't going anywhere but home to watch tee vee.

[GalleryGod]

109. I'm NOT a Keyboard Kommando,"tough guy" like some others on here,Friend

The Insurgents of which I spoke were the PAVN..The People's Army of Vietnam and the Viet Cong. They were tough, no-nonsense, and instinctively knew how to "afflict the comfortable", to wit the the Minh and Nhu regimes. I wasn't threatening anyone, sorry you took it that way, it was a "Reality Check" about an insurgency movement,and how they will cut their opposition and make them bleed from a "thousand small cuts".

Message Board? This is a cyber community,Sir,i.e. a 21st century "party line" (no pun intended) where people of good will can come,differ in their analysis,and offer observations from their personal political experiences (and sometimes,combat) to have others look at an outcome through a different, prism.

I did research your final analysis and found it in diametric opposition to both Nevada and DNC rules. You're welcome to it,though, as is everyone here.

[MADem]

113. And that relates to this discussion, HOW? Except to enhance your reputation as an Internet Tough

Guy? I rather doubt we'll find PAVN hiding behind the voting machines, or skulking behind trees on our way to our polling locations. And I wager most posters here are far too young to even remember those days, and for those that did, they have no military service to relate to that era.

My sense is that your use of that language was to fire for pure effect, there.


This is a just discussion board. A good one, but that's all it is. If you find it to be a 'cyber community' you might need to get out more.

The glue of this forum is politics, not the other "nice to have" and "fluffy" forums. They're amusing and convenient, but they aren't the reason this board exists.

Our mileage varies. I bet on my take.

[JackORoses]

66. I agree she does resemble a Roll

but the win loss count is actually Clinton 1 (NH) and Obama 2(IA and NV)

I know how badly you want to count MI, but it just isn't worth any delegates. You should learn to accept that.

[MADem]

93. Wow, that was mature. A real sexist at heart, aren't you?

Piss poor at math, too!

[JackORoses]

104. it was funny... but seriously, rolls are asexual, so the comment was actually asexist

I'm great at math 13 > 12

Pretty simple.

Don't repeat the disinfo that everything's up in the air and that the delegates awarded have nothing to do with today's results.

In doing this you discredit the whole Primary and Caucus system.
You seem to think that everything is just going to change right before the Convention anyway. Why even have the Primaries at all?

[MADem]

111. And Zero equals Zero, too!

Get used to that equation!

Unless the NV D Party is a buncha liars...yeah, that's the ticket!

You're the one discrediting, when you blow off what the party leadership has said and insert your own invented dreams into the mix, as if they count for anything...

I don't "seem to think" anthing. I have my facts in order. Sadly, you do not. You are running on Wishing and Hoping.

[medeak]

18. yep...we are talking a long draw...Obama won

am in NV.. and the rurals and Reno were overwhelmingly for Obama..my county was 63% Obama and 30% Clinton...now it's about voter suppression from all sides in Vegas with the mafia union wars...

the disgusting thing is once again..the mass media gets it wrong to get the ratings...Las Vegas is the only place in NV? and the rurals get 3-5 times the delegates Vegas does...

When will everyone stop listening to the talking heads and polls...think this election is proving that the 24 hr news cable channels don't know shit.

[sandnsea]

26. Elko?

How the hell did he win Elko?

[medeak]

51. he came last August and won everyone over.

Everyone else came at the last minute yesterday...think that's the reason.
Am so drained I can't tell you.. hope OR doesn't have a caucus as it's exhausting.

[sandnsea]

59. May. They'll get to us in May.

and we're always mail-in. I was excited to see the rural numbers coming in, didn't expect it.

[CK_John]

20. The local M$M just had Hillary and McCain and Huck video's it was no draw. n/t

[TwilightZone]

24. I'm not sure what you're seeing in the media.

Every major news network is indicating a win for Clinton, as are their websites.

If you think that they will get into the nuances of the delegate system, you might be expecting too much.

[Quixote1818]

28. Sample

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CAMPAIGN_RDP?SITE=KPUA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[TwilightZone]

39. The link you provided says, "McCain Wins Key South Carolina Primary"

Not sure how that applies.

In contrast, here are the front-page headlines on the web:

CNN says: Big victories for Clinton, Romney and McCain

MSNBC says: Clinton, Romney win in Nevada caucuses

ABC: Clinton tightens grip with Nevada win

CBS: Clinton, Romney Win In Nevada

No draws in sight.

[Quixote1818]

48. Did you not read the article?

Democrats Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama split the spoils in Nevada caucuses marred by late charges of dirty politics.

[TwilightZone]

60. As I said in another response, most people don't make it past the headlines.

Not everyone is a political junkie. In fact, most people aren't. If you're expecting most voters to see anything other than the "Clinton wins Nevada" headlines that are already everywhere, you're simply expecting too much.

[Quixote1818]

70. You mean like this?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-clinton-s.html

[TwilightZone]

73. No, like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4125682

By the way, ABC's home page says "Clinton Tightens Grip With Nevada Win".

Which are more people going to see? The headline on the front page or the blog post you keep linking to?

[Quixote1818]

34. Another sample

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/01/clinton_won_or_did_she.html

[TwilightZone]

41. WaPo's front page says, "Clinton, Romney Win in Nevada"

[GalleryGod]

46. Inside-the-bubble malarkey. Some 3rd level,night shift editor sent down that headnote.

:patriot: :kick: :patriot:

[FrenchieCat]

55. Good......Considering how the MSM hyped up NH, and his 2.5 pt loss

was seen as a Clinton upset.....when she had been ahead forever....just like she had been ahead forever in Nevada.

Good for Obama.

[HughMoran]

58. Obama was up by 8-10 points in polls before NH

Isn't your spin kind of off target in this instance?

[TwilightZone]

65. Clinton wasn't ahead in NH.

The last 17 polls on realclearpolitics.com showed Obama ahead.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nh/new_hampshire_democratic_primary-194.html#polls

[HughMoran]

45. Better example (I have to help the O/P get it right - lol)

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-clinton-s.html

"And so ABC News has calculated that even though Clinton won the vote by a large margin, in the race for delegates, Obama gained 13, and Clinton gained only 12. In the overall delegate count so far, however, ABCNews calculates taht Clinton holds the current lead with 203 delegates, to Obama's 148."

[TwilightZone]

47. Many, many people never make it past the headlines.

The headlines, as I noted in other responses in this subthread, all indicate a Clinton win.

That's what people are going to take out of Nevada.

[GalleryGod]

52. THEN...they'll WATCH the Sunday shows...and say "HMMMm?"

:patriot:

[HughMoran]

54. Oh, I agree

...but the example I posted had a headline that they split the win :shrug:

[TwilightZone]

62. Sure, if people get that far. ABC's front page says, "Clinton tightens grip with Nevada win"

That's what most people will see.

[HughMoran]

68. Like I said, I agree

...and think this is just a lot of revisionism to save face and claim a humongous victory when Obama wins SC. The thing that bug me most is that I have little preference between Obama & Hillary, but the Obama people are so obsessed with controlling the message here at DU that it is a total turn-off. I hate being forced to defend Hillary due to my sense of fair-play. :(

[TwilightZone]

72. Interesting...I feel largely the same way.

I'm still somewhat undecided (my primary is in March, so I have time), but I'm sure that everyone thinks I'm a Hillary supporter because I object to a lot of the ridiculous stuff posted about her, Bill, the campaign, etc. I defend some of the other candidates, as well, but they tend not to require as much defense!

The Obama supporters are still (for now) a minority on DU, but they are a very vocal, very aggressive one. I'm trying to keep my impression of them from altering my impression of their candidate so that I can make something resembling an objective decision in March.

To me, the important things are winning the presidency and solidifying our leads in Congress. I see that being possible (likely, in fact) with either Hillary or Barack at the top of the ticket.

[HughMoran]

75. Yep, we're on the same wavelength

I could have written the same thing. I was undecided as I drove to the poll! In a bizarre coincidence, Hillary happened to be at my polling station and ended up walking right past me. I stopped her and shook her hand. Then I saw Chelsea :loveya: in front of me and she apologized for blocking our path into the poll. I won't say if that had any influence on me ... ;)

[TwilightZone]

77. Ah, yes. I remember that post.

That was a great post, one of my recent favorites on DU. We spend so much time in fantasy land on DU that it's nice to see people talk about "real" experiences that they have with our candidates (and their very attractive daughters! Hehe....)

[wisteria]

91. ABC is conservative. n/t

[GalleryGod]

49. A "classic insurgency",folks!

:hide: hunker down.Hit & run....all the way to Denver.

[Unsane]

50. The fact that this is even being mentioned is bad for Hillary

Nevada was supposed to be her coronation.

[gdaerin]

57. I have to agree n/t

[Barack_America]

61. And once the Nevada confusion wears down, the stories of caucus irregularities will start...

Could be a bad week for Hillary, media wise.

[AGirl]

63. Ugh, this is a pathetic topic.

[MercerForPrez]

79. Start a better one

eom

[Barack_America]

110. My local news just reported BOTH victories...yea!

Big market too! Philly and South Jersey!

[Cha]

114. That's monster big cause you know

how non-informative the corporatenews can be.