Here is the thing that is most grating to this Obama supporter about the Reagan issue

[Perky]

is that people apparently thought was so vile was that he dane to mention that "unmentioable name" in any sense of a positive light.

Never mind that it was in a somewhat rambling interview with an editorial board and he was speak extemp.

Never mind that nothing in the interview suggested an endorsement of Reagan Policies.

Never mind that there is scant evidence of Obama ever being a closet Reagan lover.

Never mind that his legislative record is progressive.


If it what he said was part of some prepared remarks. I think the criticism would be more viable in some respects apart from the substance.

But my gosh folks,, the man was speaking off the cuff and it is like he became for all eternity a serial killer of baby seals or something.


I understand the deepness of the hatred democrats feel for Reagan and that era on any number of fronts. But have we set the bar of political correctness so high that a single instance of the mere mention of someone's political skills is so egregious that we no longer find him acceptable.

Can any candidate survive that level of scrutiny?

By that standard, shouldn't both Edwards and Clinton be dismissed as heretics for agreeing with and voting for the Iraq War Resolution?

In my mind, the latter is a far greater betrayal of what this party ought to stand for and yet it seems that those who are pounding Obama the hardest for a non-legislative comment are giving the candidate they back a far more egregious pass.

Those votes have cost thousands of lives, billions of dollars and set this nation back 20 years on Foriegn Policy. Those votes were considered for a long time, with ample evidence evailable to make a reasoned decision to cast a no vote. They made a decision to vote yes.

Most everyone on DU disagrees with those votes...and yet they are willing on the balance of the overall record to give their candidat a pass on the IWR.

The apparent outrage for Obama's single comment should pale in comparison.....don't you think?


It begs the question....What are we really doing to ourselves here?

[calmblueocean]

1. Finally, some sanity here!

DU has been on a hate high for the past 24 hours. I hope it wears off soon.

Your point is supremely well-taken.

[Radical Activist]

2. Its cannibalistic, destructive, and disingenuous.

Most people know Obama wasn't praising Reagan's policies. A few people here may be that stupid, but not most. They're desperate for any nasty, angry attack. They're acting embarrassingly similar to the conservative talk radio goons. And maybe some of them are.

[Perky]

39. Political Tabloidism?

[Bonobo]

3. It was truly disgusting and deserving of the title "swiftboating".

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Was it an error on his part? nt

[Perky]

26. I think he mean what he said I think he said it very poorly.

again nothing in his history suggest that he would have supportes any Reagan policy.

[durrrty libby]

5. This coming from someone who stated all Wellesley students

were lesbians Hypocrisy thy name is Perky


Here's hoping Karma bites em in the ass

[Perky]

10. I never said that

and what I did say I apologized for. sopmthing you continue to simply ignore.

[durrrty libby]

16. You said it. Later you tried to say it was a "joke" That is not an apology

[Perky]

19. OMG

SOmeone made a joke that since Hillary went Wellseley that she must have smoked pote. then someone else siad they were witing for some to ask Hillary if she had ever had a Lesbian experience... I then chimed in...."well she did go to Wellseley.

That hardly means that everyone who goes to that schhol is a Lesbian....but regardless of that....I said it was a stupid joke when you called me on it. and I sid apologize.


I will apologize again here now...I regret that I said it. I am sorry that I said it.

It was meant to be funny and it was a stupid thing to say. I was stupid for say it.

[ClericJohnPreston]

47. I'll just call attention to your own

Poor reasoning skills, incomprehensible grammar and childish spelling as representative of your, and your candidate's, communication skills.

You are as coherent as mud.

I am not aware of your foot in mouth past, with regard to your posting about the GLBT community, but, at least you reflect the absurdity of Obama's Reagan's comments. I know you and your brethren would love to see this issue die, but it goes to the core of his candidacy, and therefore remains relevant.

Moreover, the fact that his comments were "unscripted", rather than scripted, is far worse than the converse. You turn logic on it's head by coming to the ridiculous conclusion that this exculpates Obama from responsibility. You are 180 degrees WRONG.

Unscripted comments are those which reflect the TRUE character of the speaker, not of his speechmaker. In unguarded moments, is when you can expect someone's character to be revealed. That is ther source of outrage here among real Progressives.

We don't need a "trojan horse" candidate, but one who is a LIBERAL, not a closet Republican!

P.S. "Check Spelling"...use it!

[Perky]

11. I never said that

and what I did say I apologized for. sopmthing you continue to simply ignore.

[sandnsea]

6. and his views have been posted

Between his own words, and his statement that we need to change the trajectory, it's clear what he means to anybody who wants to be honest about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4102243&mesg_id=4103196
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4103240
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4103335

And when, in the midst of this topsy-turvy time, in the wake of assassinations and cities burning and Vietnam's bitter defeat, economic expansion gave way to gas lines and inflation and plant closings, and the best Jimmy Carter could suggest was turning down the thermostat, even as a bunch of Iranian radicals added insult to OPEC's injury -- a big chunk of the New Deal coalition began looking for another political home.

Instead, we Democrats are just, well, confused. There are those who still champion the old-time religion, defending every New Deal and Great Society program from Republican encroachment, achieving ratings of 100 percent from the liberal interest groups. But these efforts seem exhausted, a constant game of defense, bereft of the energy and new ideas needed to address the changing circumstances of globalization or a stubbornly isolated inner city. Others pursue a more "centrist" approach, figuring that so long as they split the difference with the conservative leadership, they must be acting reasonably -- and failing to notice that with each passing year they are giving up more and more ground.

For the next eight years, the New Deal administration experimented with policies to restart the economy, and although not all of these interventions produced their intended results, they did leave behind a regulatory structure that helps limit the risk of economic crisis: a Securities and Exahnge Commission to ensure transparency in the fnancial markets and protect smaller investors from fraud and insider manipulation; FDIC insurance to provide confidence to bank depositors; and countercyclical fiscal and monetary policies, whether in the form of tax cuts, increased liquidity, or direct government spending, to stimulate demand when business and consumers have pulled back from the market.

Rather than use the government to lessen the impact of these trends, the Bush Administration's response has been to encourage them. That's the basic idea behind the Ownership Society: If we free employers of any obligations to their workers and dismantle what's left of the New Deal, government-run social insurance programs, then the magic of the marketplace will take care of the rest. If the guiding philosophy behind the traditional system of social insurance could be described as "We're all in it together," the philosophy behind the Ownership Society seems to be "You're on your own."

[babylonsister]

12. Ah, that honesty thing. There's the rub. The partisanship is trumping

honesty. I hope that changes once this is over.
I'll not vote republican, but I will vote.

[EffieBlack]

7. Excellent analysis

What a breath of fresh air!

I agree with your point about the extemp. nature of the comment. In fact, I was very impressed at his calm thoughtfulness and his ability to see past party politics to keenly assess a political figure with whom he clearly has deep disagreement. The last thing we need in the White House is another knee-jerk reactionary "my-way-or-the-highway-I-can't-hear-or-see-you-unless-you-agree-with-me" cowboy.

[K Gardner]

8. Agreed, Perky. I don't come here much anymore.. the irrational hate is why. There are people

out here who are hurting, who are in trouble, who are discouraged.. who look to Obama as a thread of hope. They don't care about a remark about a former President, or about papers on his desk, or any of the other dozens of things that people here obsess over.

Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that because you read it here, that people care about it "out there". Out there is what's important :-)

[oasis]

9. Dennis K's UFO cheerleading

and :dunce:bama's glorification of Reagan are both blunders of collosal porportions when you are running for president.

[Perky]

15. It is an impossible standard to meet.

If Hillary or Edwards committes an equivalent fauzpas are yu willing to permot precisely the same level of recrimination?

[oasis]

35. "permit"?

Who am I some kind of a gatekeeper?

[Perky]

36. I worded thap poorly

If Edwards or Clinton mad a statement that others thought as egregious as Obama. Do you think they should be as villified?

Or are yu going to give them a full throated defense?

[theredpen]

13. 3. ISSUE THE DISCIPLINE OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENTJUDICIAL BRANCH ENFORCEMENT

There is some concern about the U.S. Government Judicial Branch enforcement. Lee L. Mercer Jr. will enforce the U.S. Government’s Judicial Branch Regulating its enforcements itself with its regulations pertaining to itself and according to its enforcements.

(K&R)

[Sulawesi]

14. Not to mention, as we now know, HRC said basically the same thing!

[sandnsea]

18. She admired his communication skills

Yes. Except she said she'd put his portrait in the White House and Obama said he wants to change the trajectory Reagan put us on. I think Hillary does too, except not to the same extent, and I don't think she has what it takes to get the country on board anyway.

[Sulawesi]

27. I was castigating peeps for dumping on Obama over this...

[sandnsea]

28. Yes, I was just adding info n/t

[jasmine621]

17. Sorry, but you can't prove to me that Obama would not have voted for

the IRW legislation. Just saying he would not have after saying that he wasn't sure how he would have voted had he been in the Senate at the time is not good enough for me, especially in light of all the other votes he has supported the war.

[sandnsea]

20. He called out Perle and Wolfowitz

and them shoving their dangerous agenda down our throat. Who else said that in Oct 2002, especially someone running for the US Senate.

[Perky]

22. I am not sure I disgree with that but what does that have to do with the OP?

[ShadowLiberal]

21. I absolutely agree with you

It's like people suddenly found out "hey wait a second, Obama votes with the republicans more then the democrats", even though he's got a very liberal voting record, and is ranked the 10th most liberal senator in congress.

If Obama is too conservative for us then we might as well just give up on presidential elections all together because no one will be liberal enough, and smart enough to avoid making silly mistakes over a 2 year long run for the presidency, to be acceptable for everyone here while still being electable.

Seriously, I think everyone is too strict in what they're looking for in a president and what makes a good president. Because of how important the presidency has come, and the long presidential campaign is, and all of the media to scrutinize the candidates, every single person in the world would end up looking like either an evil heartless corrupt bastard, or an incompetent moron not ready for the presidency, or both by the time election day rolls around.

[Perky]

23. WHERE ARE ALL THE USUAL SUSPECTS????

Those who attack Obama continually...Those leading the attack on Obama for the Reagan comment?


Have they all gone to bed?

[Bonobo]

33. Maybe they are honestly trying to do better.

I know that I have lost my temper so many times already and done things and said things I regret here.

I can blame the other side for getting me mad, just as I am sure they see it the opposite way.

In my cooler moments, I calm down and actually try to LISTEN to the other side if I can find someone from the other side who is in the same mood of communication. So I guess I am saying that they are probably the same.

Maybe they are reading this thread, feeling a little bit guilty, and trying to let the "better angels of their nature" do their work.

Maybe. I hope so.

[Bonobo]

34. I was wrong. All the whacked out haters are at this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2716877&mesg_id=2716965

[ColesCountyDem]

24. We ridicule the Repubs for being 'single issue voters', yet many here display the same mindset

I see ALL of the bashing going on, as do many, many of you, and it leaves me shaking my head. We had and still do have a fantastic array of candidates for POTUS, and to see this one or that one jumped on for a single REMARK taken out of context, or for a single VOTE taken out of context, etc., just leaves me bumfuzzled!

I will PROUDLY support WHICHEVER candidate emerges as our nominee, be it mine, yours or someone else's. The alternative-- one of those VILE, loathsome slugs on the other ticket--- is NOT acceptable!

[frogcycle]

25. well put

the attack dogs on all sides just rip the flesh from your body if you so much as hiccup

with little respect for Obama in general, I agree that that remark was innocuous and reasonably accurate. Reagan DID effect change - he started the reversal of all progress made in the New Deal and after. Obama didn't say he admired his politics, and Time didn't say hitler was a saint when they made him Man of the Year

[pingzing58]

29. Best defense I've read so far. My strong reaction to anyone mentioning Reagan is

because I personally experienced the result of his support of the contras (his freedom fighters) in Nicaragua. I will never forgive him for that. No one should ever mention his name in public. And, yes, Bush's administration is just as deceptive and has caused the deaths of thousands of iraqis. His name will not be mentiond either.

[Perky]

48. Precisely

[Gloria]

30. The real problem is that he said he isn't "invested" in the events of

the 60s and 70s...time to move on....OH, really?? So we don't have to be concerned about the erosion of women's rights or the huge numbers of incarcerated black men??? So, it's all solved???

This is really pissing me off..."generational change" mean nothing except turning one's back just because you weren't there???

[Pirate Smile]

31. Thank you, Perky.

:thumbsup:

[Perky]

32. Your Welcome

[Perry Logan]

37. Look at it this way: at least we didn't accuse Obama of practising "Rovean politics."

[Perky]

38. No You Guys acsused him of loving Reagan

Although in honsety I think the muyd slinging is bad both ways,.

[Perry Logan]

40. Big difference: accusing someone of loving Reagan is not libellous.

[Perky]

41. Neither is "Rovean Politics"

[Barack_America]

42. kick..n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. Your point about off the cuff comments is well taken

We are slowly guarenteeing that all candidate messages will be strictly scripted and controlled in the future if we insist on ripping apart their words anytime they dare to engage in an actual real discussion of matters that matter to America. If we can't learn to appreciate comments in their proper context we will make sure that future comments are all carefully nailed down in advance to a context that the candidate is confident can't be twisted against them.

Would you like more apple pie with that flag?

[Perky]

44. Yeah as if things are not dumbed down enough as it is

[Joe Fields]

45. my candidate voted against the IWR, and if he didn't, he

wouldn't be my candidate.

As for Reagan, I saw the Obama interview, and Obama was praising Reagan, and there is no way to spin it.

[Perky]

46. Praising Reagan for what?