Oh fuck. Obama's minister has really gone over the line now.

[cali]

Obama's spiritual mentor
Powerhouse Chicago preacher draws attention, and plenty of controversy
By Michael Hill | Sun Reporter
January 16, 2008

CHICAGO - The packed house at Trinity United - some 3,000 in all - had been in the pews for almost two hours, energized by a 200-voice choir and a rousing dance performance Sunday, when the Rev. Jeremiah Wright stepped up to speak.

Wright is well-known in Chicago and in the black church world for taking over a small United Church of Christ congregation in 1972 and turning it into an 8,000-member powerhouse. More recently, his name has become familiar as the longtime spiritual mentor of Barack Obama, who joined the church in 1988 - a move Obama says was important to shaping his identity as an African-American.

<snip>

On Sunday morning - amid intensified crossfire between Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Obama over the use of race in the Democratic presidential campaign - Wright was preaching from the Gospel of John, using his powerful style to link the story of the loaves and fishes to a contemporary political message.

<snip>

Some argue that blacks should vote for Clinton "because her husband was good to us," he continued.

"That's not true," he thundered. "He did the same thing to us that he did to Monica Lewinsky."

<snip>

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-te.preacher16jan16,0,1629577.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout

[Rabrrrrrr]

And how is that over the line? One might disagree with him, sure;

but how is it over the line?

[mrdemocrat78]

11. or untrue?

[Tess99]

1. Well, how is the good Rev. wrong?

All Clinton ever did do was throw us a bone. :evilgrin:

[cali]

10. it's something that will NOT help Obama among

voters- saying that Clinton f***ed black people. That's the sort of thing that you don't say in a sermon in front of hundreds of people and the press.

[Tess99]

26. I don't think it hurts at all

This idea that Clinton did oh so much for us po' black folk needs to be exposed for what it is, a lie. He did no more for blacks than he did Latinos or Asians or Women or Dominicans. So why do we call him the first black president?

[cali]

46. It will hurt among white voters.

I wish it wouldn't but it will, and Obama needs white voters as well as people of color to win the nomination, and if nominated to win the presidency. You're just not looking realistically if you don't think that this is a liability.

[Tess99]

72. I don't get how this could possibly hurt him with white voters?

[wellst0nev0ter]

85. You Know You Can't Talk About Race Among White Voters

Or else you are "racially divisive" and bring too much baggage :eyes:

[Virginia Dare]

28. He shouldn't be talking politics from the pulpit at all..

not pushing for one candidate or another at least. I think this is bullshit whether it's a repuke or a Dem.

[Capn Sunshine]

77. well, no one reported it

so I'm not sure how important this is.
Face it, to a majority of the electorate, if it's not on TV it never happened.

[oasis]

13. 8 years of Clinton prosperity: If all YOU got was a "bone" you have only yourselfto blame.

:spank:

[maddiejoan]

2. "He did the same thing to us that he did to Monica Lewinsky."

enjoyed a BJ?

:shrug:

[jasmine621]

27. I think it may have been the other way around.

Most of us fell for the MSM giving us the same service that Monica gave BC.

[northzax]

48. got her a really cushy job

in Manhattan?

seems like Monica did ok for herself.

[JackORoses]

88. maybe he was referring to the Cigar-treatment?

:rofl:

[mrdemocrat78]

3. Let's Not Bring Ministers Into this...

that's repugnican garbage!

Ohh! my 500th post!

[cali]

21. I'd love for this not to be in the mix, but it is and sticking your head

in the sand is not a useful occupation. It's actually a pretty fair and well done article, but this is going to cause a stink. And it's in a major newspaper.

[rodeodance]

23. This minister brought himselft in--alll by himself

[avaistheone1]

Amen. Where there's smoke there is fire.

This is raising a red flag to me about this church. I am not feeling good about it, and Obama's association with it.

[avrdream]

4. Those preachers.....minds are always in the gutter.

That statement is, indeed, a bit much.

[rubberducky]

5. ..

:wow:

[jlake]

6. Wow. That was a horrible thing to say....

He should not be getting so involved with the campaign period.
But he does not need to trash the Clintons to speak well of Obama.

[avrdream]

24. Agree with you on that.

There are enough good things to say about Obama. This reverand didn't need to wade in like that.

[Captain Hilts]

37. Obama's a good man. This guy isn't helping him. nt

[sandnsea]

7. Ouch, better he hadn't said that

although I do agree with it.

[BanzaiBonnie]

8. Seems inappropriate

Very crude church talk. And it seems he shouldn't be politicking from the pulpit.

[riqster]

18. Sounds like he needs his tax exemption yanked

And I say that as someone who supports neither HRC nor BHO.

[PatSeg]

39. That's for sure

If I was a church-goer, I'd be very offended to hear political rhetoric from the pulpit. Not very Christian-like either.

[leftynyc]

9. That's pretty fucking ugly

Not going to help his candidate at all.

[Maven]

12. Using the pulpit to push a political candidate

Inappropriate, not to mention a cheap, unnecessary remark.

[mrdemocrat78]

16. It's also illegal... but not Obama's fault

[Maven]

19. Of course not.

It would only be the candidate's fault if the candidate were Hillary.

[cboy4]

34. ........

:spray:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

60. LOLLLL ... ain't that the truth!

The hypocrisy around here is mind-numbing.

edit for spelnig

[russian33]

62. lol, was about to write that

[redqueen]

69. *rimshot*

:thumbsup:

[Essene]

110. be fair...

(lol)

[Essene]

96. This is illegal? I dont think so

Non-profits and religious groups have limits on political action, but they arent banned from making statements or even having a pastor show support for issues.

I dont think they can formally campaign, however, but nobody's gonna blame a church for being supportive of one of their damn members running for PRESIDENT.

[EffieBlack]

113. Not illegal

There's no law against political speech in a church. It only affects the church's not-for-profit status under the tax codes.

And this comment probably does not cross the line, believe it or not. A pastor can't explicitly urge their congregation to vote for or against a candidate of partisan political office. But they are allowed to step right up to the line - they can criticize candidates or praise candidates all they want, as long as they don't go the next step and specifically tell their congregations to vote for or against any particular candidate.

As controversial and offensive as Rev. Wright's comment may be to some, it is no doubt within the bounds of the regulations and wouldn't jeopardize the church's 501(c)(3) tax status.

[Virginia Dare]

14. Obama's not responsible for what his minister says..

but I would say he needs to fire him as his "spiritual mentor".

[Pathwalker]

15. What is it with preachers? Do they ever think of anything but sex?

They need to get laid more often.

[mrdemocrat78]

22. Well, at least he didn't compared him to Foley

[Pathwalker]

42. Nice anti-gay dig.

:puke:

[Barb in Atl]

54. ???

I thought Foley was a pedophile.

[redqueen]

73. He is. Dunno what's up with that comment above.

Maybe they were confused and thinking of the wide-stance guy? :shrug:

[redqueen]

17. Okay now THAT is going to be a problem.

:wtf:

[rox63]

20. I think Obama needs to have a chat with his pastor about keeping the campaign outside of church

Besides, it could get the church fined by the FEC, and possibly endanger their tax-exempt status.

[gateley]

25. Boy, I bet Obama cringed when he heard that. I know I did. nt

[MadBadger]

29. Its a non issue. Wasnt it before the truce?

:-)

[sniffa]

30. ...

:rofl:

[PatSeg]

31. Damn, that was tacky

We've had enough religion in politics and politics in religion for the last seven years. I was hoping with a Democrat we could put that behind us. That is the sort of comment I'd expect from the Family Values crowd.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

32. As David Mamet says, "In aid of what?"

I just don't get the perceived upside of this stuff.

It is SO easy to boost Barack in a positive fashion.

But I think a lot of people have the same problem some people on DU have: a one-size-fits-all conception of opposition. A Manichean frame.

You get used to extremity in opposition to great evils, and then end up applying that approach to everything that gets in your sights.

The Clintons do currently stand between a black man and the White House, but not with fire-hoses and dogs.

[spooky3]

86. your last line could be turned around to

"Obama does currently stand between a woman and the White House..."

These statements are really offensive, aren't they?

So please don't make them.

[Catherine Vincent]

33. Why is a preacher talking about stuff like that?

They really are liberal.

[fadedrose]

84. He wanted to remind his parish of Bill's immorality

[killbotfactory]

35. Did he justify his inflammatory rhetoric in any way?

Like, maybe, mentioning the extreme racial disparity in our justice system that flourished under Clinton, and promoted by fueling the drug war while refusing to address the crack/powder cocaine sentencing disparity?

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2002/02/27/usdom3768.htm
http://www.blackcommentator.com/99/99_prisons_2.html

[cali]

It doesn't matter. We live in soundbite nation.

this is what will be broadcast. and it is not helpful.

[thereismore]

36. All pastors, ministers, clergy, should SHUT UP about politics and voting. nt

[Proud2BAmurkin]

38. ohh no he di int

doh

[IndianaJones]

40. Obama surrogates run amok. nt.

[goodgd_yall]

41. What's the problem?

It's the words of Obama's pastor, not Obama. I've been to plenty of Masses where I didn't like what the priest said; that didn't mean I abandoned my parish. If that is what you think Obama should do. And he doesn't have the responsibility of commenting on every single thing a supporter says. This is the media stirring up the pot of division once again.

Besides, Clinton DID screw over the poor with what he did to welfare.

[Cha]

44. Thank you, some sanity on

this thread. Fuck the sound bytenation.

[IndianaJones]

45. black people = poor. got it. nt.

[riqster]

55. As a person who was poor during the beginning of the Clinton presidency

...I'd say that the poor were helped by WJC, far more than the 12 previous years, and a damned sight more than the 7 since.

[goodgd_yall]

59. Many people on welfare are black

It's a fact that derives from our country's racist history. To mess with welfare is to mess with the lives of poor people, many of whom are black.

[ArkySue]

107. Fact:

The majority of people who are on welfare are white. Look it up.

[Skip Intro]

50. It looks like the minister stirring the pot of racial division again. nt

[Occam Bandage]

51. Under Clinton, the black unemployment rate dropped, as did the black crime rate,

and the black standard of living increased, as the black middle class expanded. Things were better for the black community under Clinton than they were under any President in decades, if ever.

Frankly, by choosing him as his pastor, Obama is declaring that he considers this man his spiritual and moral leader. I agree that Obama ought not be tarnished with this man's words, but if he doesn't draw a clear line between himself and his pastor, he likely will be.

[cali]

57. No, I don't think Obama should sever ties with his pastor

but he did condemn the comments made by him, and that's good. I've objected to prominent Clinton supporters talking trash about Obama, and sorry, though he may have had a point, the way he framed it is trash talk. And it will get picked up and picked over by the talking heads.

[goodgd_yall]

65. I agree, if confronted about the comments

that Obama needs to speak up and separate himself from the comments. I knew even before Obama responded that he doesn't agree with the kind of comment the pastor made. It's this using of remarks made by anyone connected with a particular candidate as a way to attack the candidate that is wearisome and unproductive.

[calico1]

61. The problem is this was printed in a

well known newspaper. Obama can't be elected just by his hard line followers. People on the fence that are considering him read stuff like this and can be put off. This is why supporters should watch what they say. This kind of thing doesn't help Obama.

I also agree with others that a church pulpit is no place to talk politics.

[Occam Bandage]

43. It's Sister Souljah time, Barack.

[flpoljunkie]

47. I read recently that Rev. Wright is retiring this year. Seems he wants to go out with a bang!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

49. Proposed Truce II: Let's agree that not all supporters are reading off talking points

I honestly believe that part of the reason Hillary has had more flaps like this is that her supporters are older.

John Lewis, Charlie Rangel, Bob Kerrey and Bob Johnson are old, established big-shots who say whatever they want to say.

But everyone has supporters who will say whatever the hell they feel like saying, and we all ought to stop thinking that every unfortunate word is read from a campaign script.

[ecstatic]

52. That's disappointing, but why are reporters spying on Obama's church

Are they planted in any other candidate's church too?

[ET Awful]

53. He did the same thing to us that he did to Monica Lewinsky? He let you give him oral?

:evilgrin:

[beachmom]

56. Not cool, Pastor. But, you know, does Obama control his pastor?

Is Pastor Wright a surrogate for the Obama campaign? Nope. But Obama should say something here.

[cali]

63. Of course I know that, but it's

not about what I know. It's about this becoming fodder for the talking heads and for people who want to damage his candidacy.

[flpoljunkie]

58. Here's Obama's response, from the link in your OP...

In a statement released by his campaign last night, Obama responded to questions about Wright's comments on Sunday.

"As I've told Reverend Wright, personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church," he said. "I don't think of the pastor of my church in political terms."

"Like a member of my own family, there are things he says at times with which I deeply disagree," he said. "But as he prepares to retire, that doesn't detract from my affection for Reverend Wright or appreciation for the good works he has done."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-te.preacher16jan16,0,1629577.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout

(Notice that Obama does not throw Rev. Wright under the bus, like other unnamed politicians would.)

[Pathwalker]

64. We really, really, really need to get religion out of politics.

It doesn't help ANYTHING.

[flpoljunkie]

68. All of Democratic candidates believe in the separation of church and state.

[Pathwalker]

75. I hope we get it back, because I'm real tired of all the religious stuff of the

last seven years. It's like being forced to endure Sunday school again.

[HughMoran]

74. "But as he prepares to retire..."

I'm glad Obama took him to task for this. Kind of a veiled "hurry up and retire old man" implication in the quote in my subject :)

[BeyondGeography]

66. That's going to hurt Obama's minister in the polls

[Drunken Irishman]

70. lol

[cali]

71. if you don't think that this couldn't hurt Obama

you aren't being realistic. I hope Obama's comments and repudiation of those remarks help defuse this, but it's something that does have the potential to hurt him.

[HughMoran]

67. that's kind of "below the belt" as it were

I'd laugh if it wasn't so unfunny.

[Usrename]

76. Yeah, it's unfair to bring that back up.

:rof:

[HughMoran]

82. Yeah, I didn't expect this issue to "pop up" at this time

:rofl:

[stillcool]

78. Obama's response? Does anyone care?

As I've told Reverend Wright, personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church," he said. "I don't think of the pastor of my church in political terms.

"Like a member of my own family, there are things he says at times with which I deeply disagree," he said. "But as he prepares to retire, that doesn't detract from my affection for Reverend Wright or appreciation for the good works he has done."

[cali]

81. Of course people care

it's been posted several times, and it's my mistake that i didn't post it in the OP.

[Deep13]

79. Please explain how Bill Clinton got a blow-job from Black people. nt

[wtmusic]

83. Monica as a victim

Interesting perspective.

[Essene]

95. NO NO. Obama's church affiliation isnt going to garner any attention.

(lol)

I gotta admit tho... the line was pretty funny. =D

[jackson_dem]

80. Clinton had a great record on black issues and Obama called Bill Clinton's policies progressive

[Essene]

*insert something reasonable here while i try to stop laughing*

:banghead:

I guess all those people flaming me earlier today on threads about this church and pastor... calling me a bigot for even daring to suggest this could be a problem... will just keep flaming me. lol

[JackORoses]

87. Oh, Snap! I wondered when Lewinsky would make her entrance.

[rodeodance]

89. Well, Cali--I agree--the little minister is over the line: He did the same thing to us that he did t

[EV_Ares]

90. I still have a problem with ministers being involved in politics from the pulpit anyway. Besides

that what he said was a little too far out there for me. Maybe for others not, he is just saying for whatever reason Clinton screwed them which I have no idea what he is referring to. I didn't think Clinton's welfare policies were that much of a disaster but maybe they were.

[Cha]

92. Maybe the Rev is talkin' about this..

"Mr. Clinton’s controversial end-of-term pardons—including a major drug "kingpin"—illustrate the inconsistency between Mr. Clinton’s rhetoric and his actions, according to one of the report’s authors. The Justice Policy Foundation launched a campaign to win pardons or clemency for 1,000 non-violent drug offenders on whom they had detailed research and information supporting their appeals, according to Jason Ziedenberg, co-author of the JPI report. Only 17 persons on that list were among the more than 400 last-minute pardons issued by Mr. Clinton."

http://www.finalcall.com/national/incarceration03-06-2001.htm

[AlertLurker]

91. Jeez - and here I thought it was a mayonnaise stain on my blue dress.

[JuniperLea]

93. Yet another example of how Christianity has been bastardized...

REAL Christians would never say something so vile, especially not a pastor!! And most certainly not a pastor in front of his congregation, et al.

I heard Obama say just yesterday that his supporters sometimes get out of hand and say things he would never say... I'm betting this is one of those times;)

I'm ready to cast my vote for the first candidate who comes out and says, without qualification, that religion will have no part in their administration. Or that they are an Agnostic or Atheist, that works too.

[Catherine Vincent]

94. "He did the same thing to us that he did to Monica Lewinsky."

Oh really? Then I want my blue stained dress!

[Essene]

97. and we didnt get to see the Oval Office (or a cigar)

[Evergreen Emerald]

98. It is so funny to watch you guys justify every ugly thing the Obama campaign does.

you would have swallowed your tongues by now in your frenzy to attack Clinton had her minister said something that totally disgusting.

Watch: Obama will let it just be said with no commment. And then in a week after the damage is done, say something like: yeah it was wrong.

Double standard.

[arthritisR_US]

101. Obama has nothing to do with this, IMO. He can't be held

responsible for the words and actions of others. Unless he's psychic how could he possibly know the intentions of others? He's running a campaign not a Nazi camp. (These same sentiments apply to any one of the other candidates).

[Evergreen Emerald]

102. Riiiggghht. Obama never is responsible when his campaign does something

You guys sure shouted a different tune with Cuomo said something about shucking and jivying. Supporter, not on the campaign.

Double standards.

[arthritisR_US]

106. All this negativity will be great fodder for the repubs come the

general election. I wish all of the candidates would remember that. :banghead:

[Essene]

109. I respect this skepticism... but clearly obama and his pastor dont share the same general msg (lol)

His own church's message about black power and semi-separatism is most certianly not obama's message.

Hence, equating this with his "campaign" is honestly a stretch... but it makes no practical difference since this may as well BE his campaign in terms of the implications.

[Catherine Vincent]

104. Check out some of the previous posts.

Obama did comment on what the pastor said.

[arthritisR_US]

99. That kind of preaching to me should lose him his churches

tax exempt status. I have no favourite in this race (being Canadian) but there should be a separation of church and state. I thought the republican religious politicos were the only ones that engage in this kind of crap...shame on some of these dems!:spank:

[Nimrod2005]

100. ROFLMAO....Billo Big Dawg Fucked them too???????? lol

[David Zephyr]

103. cali,

This the tragedy of Hillary's run: Monica is never going to go away. And we are tip toeing around it here and yet, in the General Election, that luxury will not be afforded us.

I agree that he shouldn't have said it, but for us to pretend that it is not going to come up is a recipe for suicide.

I just hope that someone buys Monica a house in Europe and keeps her there all of 2008. Still, I know that Linda Tripp, Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers and all the videotapes are being pulled off the shelf for continuous loopin this summer.

This was small potatos to what will come. It's not fair, but that's the way it is.

[Catherine Vincent]

105. Well they can bring it on!

I guess they forgot Clinton's approval ratings during this fiasco?

[LeftyMom]

108. The Clenis had consensual sex with black people as a whole?

A minister really should be able to use a metaphor a bit more clearly. But I fail to see what qualifies clumsy language as "over the line."

[Essene]

111. AND THAT is why he's the first black president...

You heard.

[DrFunkenstein]

112. He Doesn't Need That Many Interns

Didn't Lewinsky get her own HBO special?