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"Disenfranchising Voters"... is anyone really this blinkered?

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:03 PM
Original message
"Disenfranchising Voters"... is anyone really this blinkered?
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 06:11 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
The Nevada lawsuit will not disenfranchise voters.

Consider the two outcomes of the suit:
1) The court says, "the current caucus structure does not violate tenants of election law, or of basic constitutional fairness." The End. (Or says it's too late for a remedy, or for whatever reason does nothing.)

2) The court says, "the current caucus structure violates Nevada election law, the voting rights act, or basic tenets of equal protection... and the following remedy should be made."
The "disenfranchisement!!!" shouters seem to be saying that even if the current set-up violates fundamental voting rights, they don't care as long as it benefits Senator Obama.

Seriously, have you thought this through? If the court throws out the complaint as baseless, then there is nothing to complain about.

And if the the court says, "Whoa... this is a serious violation of the rights of individual voters! We need to fix this somehow," then that prospect upsets you? Why?

American courts have done more to ensure fairness in elections than any other institution, and asking for judicial review of voting procedures is not a Republican thing, it is a Democratic thing. The courts are the good guys in these matters.

I commented on this business earlier and tossed out an opinion of the merits of the case, which I should not have, because my opinion of Nevada election law is obviously less informed than a finding of a Nevada court will be. It was stupid for me to have an opinion of the merits just for the sake of having an opinion. I don't need an opinion because the matter is before the court, and I trust the courts in these matters... certainly more than I trust any campaign or other interested party.

All precedent and judicial philosophy has a bias toward the fullest enfranchisement, and a reluctance to enter intra-party political arrangements unless there's a problem so serious it flies in the face of basic fairness. And since this is a primary there is not even the usual suspicion of partisanship. (Our perception of the adjudication of voting rights issues should not be based on what the Supreme Court did for Bush. That was a special case that flew in the face of a long and glorious history of the judiciary's role in ensuring voting rights and election fairness.)

Given the courts' reticence to weigh in on political questions, in the unlikely event that the court finds a problem it is going to be a serious problem that we SHOULD all want fixed. And if the court does nothing there's nothing to even argue about.

So this melt-down here is outrage over the prospect of a court looking at a voting scheme. And the court will not enter the case and change anything unless there is clear disenfranchisement of somebody. So you are saying you don't mind disenfranchisement at all... just disenfranchisement that hurts your candidate. If it hurts a different candidate you're fine with it.
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origin1286 Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. ...
How does letting a bunch of people vote at their workplace but not others violate fundamental voting rights?

You're saying it would be better to let NO ONE vote at their workplace because ALL can't?

Sorry, but when it comes to voting, some is better than none. Especially since the rules were put in place well before any endorsements and well before it could be foreseen to benefit any candidate.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I am not saying ANYTHING about the merits
I am saying that one should be frightened to have a court review a voting procedure.

Courts have a traditional role in reviewing voting procedures because all elections involve highly interested parties.

It's really not sinister.
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. the lawsuit going through will disenfranchise voters ...teachers don't work on Saturdays
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. How in the hell can MORE caucus sites "disenfranchise" voters?!
Twisted GOP like logic going on in the Clinton camp.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hmmm... if Republicans added MORE polling places in white neighborhoods, you're cool with that then?
Good to know.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's how polling places are apportioned
by population. DUH.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Democratic Party sets the caucus rules in Nevada
Go read the way it works before you post this shit. That is the state law.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Interesting that Hillary Clinton...
...after her third-place showing in Iowa--said that the Iowa caucuses were not fair to everyone,
because "shiftworkers" were not able to attend the caucuses.

Then, when voting is expanded to help those vote at their place of work--suddenly, those supporting
Hillary are filing lawsuits to prevent more voter access.

For Pete's sake, you can't enable EVERY SINGLE person on the nightshift, to vote. However, you can
try to include as many people as possible.

I assure you, if more caucus sites were being opened to help people vote in areas that are favorable
to Clinton--we would not be seeing a lawsuit come from her side---and we surely wouldn't see Obama's
surrogates filing lawsuits.

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "and we surely wouldn't see Obama's surrogates filing lawsuits"
Oh no, of course not...

:spray:

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