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Has anyone looked at Obama's positions on Crime, Punishment, and Drugs? Interesting stuff!!!

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:26 PM
Original message
Has anyone looked at Obama's positions on Crime, Punishment, and Drugs? Interesting stuff!!!
I was reading Obama's positions on Crime, Punishment, and Drugs. This is on the Civil Rights portion of his website. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HowardConvocationFactSheet.pdf

He's got lots of interesting ideas on how to deal with crime and drug issues. Read on....


In recent weeks, the travesty in Jena has shown us how much work there is left to do in this country, particularly
in our criminal justice system. Whether it’s the fact that six young boys were charged and threatened with a
punishment that far outweighs their crime or the fact that a public defender didn’t call a single witness at trial,
this case is another indicator that our criminal justice system is in need of reform. As a state senator, Barack Obama led the fight in Illinois to repair a broken death penalty system and to pass a
racial profiling bill. In the U.S. Senate, Obama has continued to fight against racial profiling and high
recidivism rates, while also working to fund proven prevention programs that give young people options before
they find themselves involved in crime.

Barack Obama believes that it’s not enough to be “tough on crime” – we have to be tough and smart. Laws
with racially discriminatory impact that have little success in rehabilitating offenders and reducing recidivism
rates are not “smart.” And refusing to address the hard work of preventing crime, supporting police and
prosecutors and supporting ex-offenders once they are released is not “tough.” As president, Obama will
address the flaws in our system that have left 74 percent of African Americans believing that the system is
biased against them – a particularly disturbing statistic in light of the fact that African Americans make up
approximately 50 percent of the nation’s homicide victims.

Eliminate Crack/Cocaine Disparity: The Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 imposes a five-year mandatory
minimum penalty for a first-time trafficking offense involving 5 or more grams of crack cocaine, the weight of
less than two sugar packets and yielding between 10 and 50 doses. To get the same 5 year mandatory minimum
for powder cocaine, an offender would need to traffic 500 grams of powder, yielding between 2,500 and 5,000
doses. Against the recommendation of the U.S. Sentencing Commission, these mandatory minimums were
signed into law again in 1995. Barack Obama believes the disparity between crack and powder-based cocaine
is wrong, cannot be justified and should be eliminated. The sentencing disparity has disproportionately filled
our prison with young black and Latino drug users – men and women who he will work to rehabilitate so they
can become productive and responsible community members.
More than 80 percent of crack cocaine defendants
in 2006 were African American, and African Americans now serve as much time in prison for drug offenses
(58.7 months) as whites do for violent offenses (61.7 months). Republican Senators, like Jeff Sessions from
Alabama, have argued that as a matter of law and public policy, the heavy mandatory sentences for crack as
compared to cocaine make no sense. As president, Obama will work in a bipartisan way to eliminate these
disparities. He will also repeal the mandatory minimum sentence for first-time offenders convicted of simple
possession of crack, as crack is the only drug that a non-violent first-time offender can receive a mandatory
minimum sentence for possessing.


Reform Mandatory Minimums: There are at least 171 mandatory minimum provisions in federal criminal
statutes. According to the United States Sentencing Commission, in FY 2006, 33,636 counts of conviction
carried a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment, affecting 20,737 offenders. Most of these counts of
conviction – 82.9 percent – were for drug offenses. Black and Hispanic offenders make up the overwhelming
majority of individuals convicted under a mandatory minimum sentence. A RAND study found that mandatory
minimum sentences are less effective than discretionary sentencing and drug treatment in reducing drug-related
crime, and every leading expert body in criminal justice has opposed the use of mandatory minimum sentences,
including the Sentencing Commission, the Judicial Conference, the American Bar Association, and leading
criminal justice scholars. Chief Justice Rehnquist observed that “one of the best arguments against any more
mandatory minimums, and perhaps against some of those that we already have, is that they frustrate the careful
calibration of sentences.” Justice Kennedy stated that he “can accept neither the necessity nor the wisdom of
federal mandatory minimum sentences.” Justice Breyer, one of the architects of the Sentencing Guidelines,
noted that “mandatory minimum statutes are fundamentally inconsistent with Congress’ simultaneous effort to
create a fair, honest, and rational sentencing system through the use of Sentencing Guidelines.” Politicians of
both parties have also come out against mandatory minimums
. Obama will immediately review these sentences
to see where we can be smarter on crime and reduce the ineffective warehousing of non-violent drug offenders.


Drug Courts: There are now drug courts in operation or being planned in all fifty states, the District of
Columbia, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, Guam, two Federal Districts, and 121 tribal programs.
Existing drug courts have proven successful in dealing with non-violent offenders. These courts offer a mix of
treatment and sanctions, in lieu of traditional incarceration. Offenders who participate in these courts and
complete their treatment can have charges against them dropped or can plead guilty without receiving prison
time. The success of these programs has been dramatic: One New York study found that drug court graduates
had a rearrest rate that was on average 29 percent lower than comparable offenders who had not participated in
the drug court program. These programs are also far cheaper than incarceration. Currently, the Department of
Justice makes grants available to state and local governments to establish drug courts. Barack Obama will
replicate these efforts within the federal criminal justice system by signing a law that would authorize federal
magistrates to preside over drug courts and federal probation officers to oversee the offenders’ compliance with
drug treatment programs. Obama will ensure that our federal courts and probation offices have adequate
resources to deal with this new program.


Ensure Adequate Counsel: Events in the Jena case have shed light on another problem in our country: too
many defendants have poor counsel. Barack Obama will work to improve the quality of our nation’s public
defenders by creating loan-forgiveness programs for law students who enter this field.
End Racial Profiling: This year, the Department of Justice released a survey that found that blacks and
Hispanics are more than twice as likely as whites to be searched, arrested, threatened, or subdued with force
when stopped by police. Of those who had force used against them, 83 percent felt that the force was excessive.
As a state senator, Barack Obama introduced and passed a law requiring the Illinois Department of
Transportation to record the race, age and gender of all drivers stopped for traffic violations so that bias could
be detected and addressed. As a U.S. Senator, Obama cosponsored federal legislation to ban racial profiling
and require federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to take steps to eliminate the practice. As
president, Obama will continue his decades-long fight against racial profiling and sign legislation that will ban
the practice of racial profiling by federal law enforcement agencies and provide federal funding to state and
local police departments if they adopt policies to prohibit the practice.
Reform the Death Penalty: As a member of the Illinois state senate, Barack Obama led efforts to reform a
broken death penalty system that sent 13 innocent people to death row because it was filled with error,
questionable police tactics, racial bias, and shoddy legal work. Obama drafted and passed a law requiring
videotaping of interrogations and confessions in capital cases to ensure that prosecutions are fair. As president,
Obama will encourage the states to adopt similar reforms.

Reduce Crime Recidivism by Providing Ex-Offender Supports: America’s urban communities are facing
an incarceration and post-incarceration crisis. Up to two-thirds of the 650,000 prisoners released every year are
rearrested within three years. Nearly 2 million children have a parent in a correctional facility. Barack Obama
recognizes that it is simply unacceptable to keep ignoring this crisis in American families and communities.
In
the U.S. Senate, Obama has worked to provide job training, substance abuse and mental health counseling, and
employment opportunities to ex-offenders. In addition to signing these important programs into law, Obama
will create a prison-to-work incentive program, modeled on the Welfare-to-Work Partnership, to create ties with
employers, third-party agencies that provide training and support services to ex-offenders, and to improve exoffender
employment and job retention rates. Obama will also reduce bureaucratic barriers at state correctional
systems that prevent former inmates from finding and maintaining employment.


Expand Hate Crimes Statutes: Barack Obama cosponsored legislation that would expand federal jurisdiction
to reach violent hate crimes perpetrated because of race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation,
gender identity, or physical disability. As a state senator, Obama passed tough legislation that made conspiracy
to commit hate crimes against the law. As president, he will ensure that the Criminal Section of the Civil Rights
Division makes hate crime a priority.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HowardConvocationFactSheet.pdf
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. An interesting thread about the issues gets no attention.
Figures
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's happened a lot lately
That's the real difference between now and 2003,4. Nobody wants to look at the policies at all.

Obama has a fantastic record in Illinois too. Here's one year. Notice his Health Care Constitutional Amendment at the bottom.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet90/sponsor/OBAMA.html
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. "Nobody wants to look at the policies at all"
ughh...Dem must win...all costs...nevermind policy...nevermind concessions...ughhh...must have "D" after name...any name...any "D"...ughh...electable...ugh...
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Because Obama doesn't offer anything substantial
Heck, I've done more for the Brooklyn Drug Court than Obama, apparently. Though he admits using himself, he still wants to use the justice system for social ills. Sorry, but this ain't worth pushing.
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You make that charge but you don't follow up with any Clinton substance. . .LOL
:kick:
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. LOL? HRC honestly doesn't know what she's talking about. Obama
is doing onto others what he wouldn't have done to himself.

Do you have no standards left or does anything go now?
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. you shouldn't be so modest
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I'm not because I have no reason to be
http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/410381_DomViolCourts.pdf

Fredda Weinberg, formerly of the Center for Court Innovation, provided invaluable assistance and support in developing our database
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yes, doing data entry is more valuable than being a civil rights lawer.
:shrug:
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Excuse me? I designed the db ... the data came from state records
You're a sick pup ... with a prejudiced mind. You think you get credit in white papers for typing?
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. you're so prejudiced
:rofl:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Another thread that Fredda wants to make all about Fredda. I'm shocked!
:eyes:
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Why? As it turns out, Obama is less than he appears ... and I'm not
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 12:58 PM by Fredda Weinberg
And the fact that this bothers you says something about you. I'm his age and apparently accomplished more as a citizen than he did as a politician.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. A little perspective, please?
I'm delighted that you've made a contribution within your field, that's wonderful, but why does that invite a rebuke of someone from an altogether different profession for not having made an identical contribution? Politicians are legitimately supposed to be generalists, one doesn't expect them to be specialists, they would not be a competent politician if they specialized in only one aspect of governance. Drawing a conclusion from a comparison between accomplishments in one single area overlooks all of the other accomplishments in other areas that a person may have achieved. By your reasoning, the fact that I have achieved accomplishments within my field that neither you nor Obama have, should have some meaningful implication for my qualifications to hold public office, which is absurd. What matters is whether the candidate in question is likely to move public policy in the direction you want it to go and your argument doesn't address that question one way or the other.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. We're kinda deep into a subthread for perspective, but here goes
I'm rebuking Obama supporters who want their candidate to be taken seriously when the record is ... let's be charitable and say, not yet established.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. open up your prejudiced mind
:rofl:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. egocentric? blowing her own horn?
Never! How can you suggest such a thing?!
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Fredda for President !!
:rofl:
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. No, but my first public school civics teacher, Dr Cohen, told me
to prepare for the senate ... that he would vote for me. Heady stuff for a 15 year old just out of parochial school, but there I was, guiding class debate.

Laugh all you want, but in real life, I have won and lost elections ... don't need it.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. MeMeMeMeMeMe MeMeMeMeMe!
:crazy:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. .....
:rofl:
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. "creating loan-forgiveness programs for law students who enter this field"
(the field being public defenders)

Does that not qualify as substantial and specific?

Can you give me a couple bullet points of what you would consider "substantial"?
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Great idea when Senator Durbin proposed it. Do you see
credit given where it's apparently due?

I thank Senator Durbin and Senator Kennedy for working out the details of the loan forgiveness program, which will help State and local prosecutor and public defender offices to recruit and retain the most talented young lawyers

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200207/071102.html
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Okay, great - glad you like the idea
I will keep my eyes open for when any of the candidates credit others for their positions. I know that it happens sometimes, but I don't think it's standard in position papers.

It's good to know that's your criticism, and that you think the idea is a good one.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Who's pushing anything?
I don't get your point. We're you a drug user?

Ending mandatory minimums, beginning reform programs, and ensuring all defendants get a lawyer isn't substantial? What's substantial? Building new prisons?
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. I objected to the complaint that no one was wowing this insubstantial record
Positions are nice, but the man's a senator after being a legislator. Look for specifics, man ... we all should.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Do you think "drug courts" as described in Obama's position, are a good or bad thing?
Regardless of whether you consider Obama's position "substantial", do you think expansion of the drug court approach, as an alternative to traditional courts, is a good thing?

If not, do you dispute the 29% reduction in recidivism statistic?
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I've worked to help drug courts become reality in NY & FL
Yup, for a bad issue they're a better response ... fer sher.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Good, thanks for your contribution to that effort.
I agree, from what I've read, that they are an improvement over the traditional process, and I'm glad you are working to help make it a reality.

I'm glad that Obama is talking about it, and it sounds like he is working for the right thing, at least on this point. Maybe he doesn't have the background in the trenches, but I think like all of them, he will have to listen to those who do. My gut says that Obama is someone who will listen to others with expertise he lacks. I hope my gut is right.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Apparently, he listens, but if the story about him
regarding the Dorgan amendment and the immigration bill is true, he doesn't work well w/others. This is necessary character trait to effect change, however frustrating the accomodation.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. I'll check into that
Obama's positives are very high with me, so I don't expect that data point to change my support for him, but I like to know about these things. Anyway, the ability to work with others is something that can be learned, and also develops over time working with specific people, and finally can be very dependent on the situation (some people and situations are harder to work with than others). We will see if your concern plays out over the years, because even if Obama doesn't win the presidency, I expect he will be in public life for a long time. And you are right, it is a necessary character trait to effect change. From what I see, Obama has that trait. But I will check into the incident you mention.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. How do you resolve...
Social Ills such as these..if not through the Justice System?


To some in Paris, sinister past is back
In Texas, a white teenager burns down her family's home and receives probation. A black one shoves
a hall monitor and gets 7 years in prison.
The state NAACP calls it 'a signal to black folks.'
By Howard Witt
Tribune senior correspondent
Published March 12, 2007
----------------------------------------------
There was the 19-year-old white man, convicted last July of criminally negligent homicide for killing a 54-year-old black woman and her 3-year-old grandson with his truck, who was sentenced in Paris to probation and required to send an annual Christmas card to the victims' family.

There are the Paris public schools, which are under investigation by the U.S. Education Department after repeated complaints that administrators discipline black students more frequently, and more harshly, than white students.

And then there is the case that most troubles Cherry and leaders of the Texas NAACP, involving a 14-year-old black freshman, Shaquanda Cotton, who shoved a hall monitor at Paris High School in a dispute over entering the building before the school day had officially begun.The youth had no prior arrest record, and the hall monitor--a 58-year-old teacher's aide--was not seriously injured. But Shaquanda was tried in March 2006 in the town's juvenile court, convicted of "assault on a public servant" and sentenced by Lamar County Judge Chuck Superville to prison for up to 7 years, until she turns 21.
Just three months earlier, Superville sentenced a 14-year-old white girl, convicted of arson for burning down her family's house, to probation.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0703... -
newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true


By RALPH BLUMENTHAL
Published: February 28, 2007
Texan Calls for Takeover of State’s Juvenile Schools
AUSTIN, Tex., Feb. 27 — A long-simmering scandal over sexual abuse of juveniles at schools for youthful offenders broke into the open on Tuesday with an outraged state senator calling for a takeover of the troubled Texas Youth Commission.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senators questioned Mr. Nichols about the transfer in 2003 of one supervisor, Ray Brookins, to the West Texas State School from another school for juvenile offenders at San Saba, after pornography had been found on his computer. Mr. Brookins later became assistant superintendent at Pyote and was cited by the Texas Rangers for sexual contact with juveniles there, senators said.Another supervisor at Pyote, John Paul Hernandez, was also reported by the Texas Rangers to have engaged in sexual contact with students, senators said.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Hernandez became principal at a charter school in Midland, the Richard Milburn
Academy, said Norman Hall, the school’s superintendent. The school did not know of Mr. Hernandez’s history when it hired him, Mr. Hall said, and put him on leave several weeks ago.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The superintendent at Pyote, Chip Harrison, who knew of the accusations against Mr. Brookins and Mr. Hernandez and kept them on the staff, senators said, is now director of juvenile corrections for the commission, in charge of several schools.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Nichols called him “one of our most experienced superintendents,” setting off a gasp from parents.
Stacie Semrad contributed reporting.



In 1985 one out of every 320 Americans were in jail.
Between1980 and 1994, the number of people in federal and state prisons increased 221%.
Today, 2 million Americans are in prison.
1.2 million are African-American men.


• In 2000, 1.5 million U.S. children had an incarcerated parent. Between 1990-2001, the number of women in prison increased by 106%.
• In 1995, 12% of children in foster care had not received routine health care. 90% had not received services to address developmental delays.
• Between 1992-2002, the number of infants and toddlers entering foster care increased by 110%.
• In 1993, more than 60% of the homeless population in NYC municipal shelters were former foster youth.

• According to a 1999 report, less than 50% of foster youth had graduated from high school, compared to 85% of the general population.
• In 2000, of 732 mid-western foster care youths, nearly 52% had lived in three or more foster homes and had moved schools.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are more than half a million children and youth in the U.S. foster care system, a 90% increase since 1987.Three of 10 of the nation’s homeless are former foster children.
A recent study has found that 12-18 months after leaving foster care:
27% of the males and 10% of the females had been incarcerated

33% were receiving public assistance
37% had not finished high school
50% were unemployed
Children in foster care are three to six times more likely than children not in care to have emotional, behavioral and developmental problems.

A study by the National Center for Mental Health and Juvenille Justice found 70% of these youth meet the criteria for at least one mental health disorder. What's worse is that 36% of the parents of these youth intentionaly involved the juvenille justice system to access mental health services...some 12,700 children were places in either child welfare, or the juvenilled justice systems to access mental health systems (U.S. GAO 2003) Of course, the U.S. DOJ in recent investigations into the conditions in these juvenille detention and correctional facilities, found inadequate access to treatment, inappropriate use of medications, and neglect of suicide attempts nationwide (U.S.DOJ 2005).
---80 percent of prison inmates have been through the foster care system.

* 872,000 children and youth were confirmed victims of abuse or neglect in the United States in 2004.


--According to the National Council on Crime and Delinquency, since 1990 the incarceration of youth in adult jails has increased 208%. On any given day, more than 7,000 young people are held in adult jails.

-- Increasing numbers of young people have been
placed in adult jails where they are at risk of assault, abuse, and death.
Currently, 40 states permit or require that youth charged as adults be placed pre-trial in an adult jail, and in some states they may be required to serve their entire sentence in an adult jail.
http://www.campaign4youthjustice.org/Downloads/NEWS/JPI014Consequences_Summary.pdf

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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. How did I do it? I call it kids, cops & computers cut crime
It's not criminal, but it does focus on the interface between the police ... and the polis. Furthermore, it bridges the gap between discipline and education. It is a program designed to expire when the mandate is fulfilled.

I started this a decade ago and am pleased to note that there've been results in my lifetime. I'm currently negotiating w/NYPD to revive the program that was suspended in the wake of 9/11, now that I'm back and finally settling back in.

You asked ... I answered. The criminal justice system is a modern monstrocity that needs addressing.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I should note...
I was a foster-child due to another war. You may have found 'results' in your lifetime..but the only ones I see are that things are worse than they have ever been. Unfortunately it seems, that the only people that see the cause and effect of ruined lives, are those who experience it. Peace.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Think global, act local. The first
community policing substations/computer learning centers closed due to the reduction in crime around the area.

I'm the child of a war refugee - and know that my experience could have been even worse. Best wishes and I'll continue what I'm doing because no matter how small, it is a positive contribution.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I believe we all make contributions...
for ill and for good..although sometimes consequences of the cure, are more devastating than the disease. I believe that the cause that produces the effect is where the solution lies. While we may not be approaching the issue of 'social ills' in the same manner, I would hope that we are seeking the same results..and towards that end all experience is valuable.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Amen
I stick w/the secular world because it offers reproducible results. So we agree ... and I look forward to next year's election and beyond.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. "he still wants to use the justice system for social ills"
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 01:46 PM by GreenArrow
And the others, excepting the odious and odiferous Dennis Kucinich and whacky Mike Gravel don't? Come now, they all want to be "tough on crime," which too often is another way of saying stupid on crime or reactionary on crime, or lacking imagination on crime.

Which of the top candidates is offering anything substantial? None of them.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. But only one candidate wants to do onto others when he got away w/it n/t
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Awesome
Although, paramount, I see more than civil rights advantages here.

The reality of "family values" is that a person cares about the person who is growing up in it. The chaos from the biggest problems and the people who don't have that background support.

These are people who have been written off historically. I think this is important as there are a lot of people who Democrats been taking for granted. "People who do bad things" yet have families who are not doing especially well with missing parents.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. This is the way to work for your candidate! Great post !
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 01:10 PM by Marrah_G
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. John Edwards supports all the same things
He also supports requiring DNA testing to exonerate those wrongfully convicted of crimes, more funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes, and also supports restoring the rights of severely injured victims.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. That's good to know - thanks. nt
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
30. His stances on crime are refreshing with ONE HUGE EXCEPTION:
Obama says the death penalty "does little to deter crime" but he supports it for cases in which "the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage." While a state senator, Obama pushed for reform of the Illinois capital punishment system and authored a bill to mandate the videotaping of interrogations and confessions.

-------------

http://pewforum.org/religion08/compare.php?Issue=Death_Penalty

Using the death penalty as a means of expressing "outrage"? Excuse me? That sounds downright medieval.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. True that, but
I gave up a long time ago on using the death penalty as a litmus test position - most people I know actually support the death penalty - even many who call themselves "Christians", which I just can't reconcile.

I think it is a necessary pander to the majority* view. Politics is an ugly business, and no successful politician is immune from pandering on certain issues.

I wish the American people would rise up and make their politicians see that the death penalty is never ever acceptable. But I don't expect that to happen, and until it does I don't expect politicians to publicly agree with me on that point. (Praise to Corzine and the NJ legislature, btw. But that's just NJ -different political climate.)

* if it's not a majority in this country that supports the death penalty in the most extreme cases, then it is a very vocal and powerful almost-majority.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. Child murder, terrorism, that's what he's said, with DNA evidence nt
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. I oppose the death penalty myself
but I understand what he's saying as to the outrage people feel such as when that little 2 year old was beat to death in Texas. I still don't think it's acceptable for the state to kill, but those are the cases where one can understand the motivation of some of those who support the death penalty.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. As Shakespeare wrote
"the law is an ass"...

Expecting anything progressive from the prison-industrial complex and the criminal-injustice system is a waste of time.

End all Wars!!

End the phony "war on drugs"

End the phony "war on terra (tm)"

Until we can equally distribute the bounty of the Earth so that there are no have-nots any more (the MAJOR CAUSE of "crime" is the unequal distribution of resources REQUIRED by the capitalist system), take the few folks who are actually dangerous to themselves and others and put them into humane centers of rehabilitation and healing rather than the fucked up torture chambers our tax dollars are supporting now.

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RuleOfNah Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
49. Got anything on crime and punishment of corporations?
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