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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:54 AM
Original message
Hillary's List of Lies and Deception on Meet The Press
1. Hillary said that Obama has called himself like RFK or MLK. It's people who have compared him to those leaders, not himself.

2. She said no one wants to inject gender into the race. Her campaign made it very clear it was about gender after her debate performance in Philadelphia. The "men are piling on"? Playing Woman As Victim was an obvious component of her campaign.

3. Hillary said Obama's Iraq speech in 2002 was off his web site. It was ON his web site. The text of the speech is also on his web site. She continued to distort Obama's statements on the Iraq War. Obama has set forth that he will not vote for more funding without timelines.

4. She said when someone does something wrong, they are gone from her campaign. What about Penn?

5. Hillary thinks that Obama's rhetoric is all he has. She has implied that Obama has never passed any legislation. He HAS passed legislation and has done much more than she has ever done.

6. She wants the voters to have accurate records of the issues of the candidates, yet continues to lie about Obama's actual legislation that he authored, co-sponsored or passed. Her accomplishments are thin as Senator. Her claim that the lobbyists getting lunch sitting up or down for campaign reform is only one component of many other reforms, so it's a cheap shot.

7. Hillary was combative and deceptive about her vote on the Iraq War Resolution. Her speech at that time proved that she was for attacking Saddam. She had to go ahead and attack Obama even though he clearly knew that the Iraq War was a "dumb war" and had said his speech at the same time she voted for Bush's invasion. Additionally, her vote against the Levin Amendment to use more diplomacy was defended by trying to deflect that she knows Levin and that she wants to stop discussing "what happened in 2002". Oddly, that is her primary attack on Obama as well as the lies made by her husband. She doesn't want to talk about 2002, yet continued to talk about Obama's speech.

Additionally, she says she would not have voted for the war had she had known that he would have attacked Iraq. What? There will millions in the streets protesting the impending war knowing that Bush was all about going into Iraq. Is she that stupid or a sucker?

Her "explanation" about not reading the NIE was answered by saying she looked at all the information. Excuse me? The NIE pointed to how the intelligence was bogus and would be the first document you would read to get an informed opinion on the intelligence. She looked at all the information except the intelligence information she should have looked at?

8. Her "experience" including her years as a First Lady is as she said, a false distinction. She again lies about Obama not saying how he will pay for the changes she wants as well as says she has shown how she will pay for her healthcare plan, even though she has never told anyone how the individual mandates for healthcare insurance will be enforced.

9. She mentioned Obama's use of the vote "present", which is used in senatorial legislation phases to stop bad legislation in state legislatures like Illinois, as an attack that Presidents can't vote "present". She knows this is deceptive and dishonest, yet continues to use that ruse.

More to come, but these are enough to prove she plays dirty and is not the right choice to be the nominee.

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. after a few minutes, I had to turn her off.
could not take it.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Its funny how some people are only able to listen to things
that reinforce their thinking. Anything else starts putting cracks in their shaky foundation so they have to cover their ears.

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merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
53. Drew Westen's "The Political Brain discusses the phenonmenon
when people who have deveoped a "partisan brain" hear information that is distressing, usually about a candidate we are partsan about, an actual reaction is detected in the brain. A coping mechanism is found which enables the "partisan brain" to deal with the information - mostly by ignoring information that threatens that person or Party to which one is "partisan".

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. in her case, when I first met her,
it was not a pretty sight.
she can be an extremely rude, arrogant, demanding, and unlikeable person.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
82. I have noticed that too
very disconcerting
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Bishop Rook Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
87. Actually, in most cases it's disgust, or embarassment (nt)
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
63. My friend said the same thing
Just too big a helping of steaming, utter BS for one morning.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
74. I never turned her on..I knew she
would be fulla lies and inuendos of why she's the experienced one. hillary is so full of crap..I only hope America finds out the Truth About Hillary before it's too damn late.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. Indeed n/t
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #74
92. Lucky you, it was painful.
Edited on Mon Jan-14-08 04:33 AM by frog92969
I just watched for kicks but couldn't waste that much time.
I know she's psyched about the new bu$h powers and cashing in on the fake war of terror, I won't vote for her in the General.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's the "steady hand" of "experience!"
No thanks.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'll wait for the transcript
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. She was fantastic, regardless of what the clown contingent blathers
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. zulu has a history of... well, I'll wait for the transcript then bump his thread back to the top
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I look forward to your analysis
It will be impossible for you to find links to support what she said about Obama.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. we'll see (wink wink)
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
46. drat, i wish i had seen it.
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Don't forget thsi DOOZY!
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. 1-9 utter bullshit. nt
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Terry_M Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Ok honestly...
Politicians lie, they all do. I just can't understand the people that claim they don't, I'm sure at least one of those 9 statements is accurate, and if you're saying that there's a politician that doesn't lie out there, I just can't understand how you reached that conclusion.
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Obama Did Equate Himself To MLK, He Is Voting To Fund Already. Keep Babbling
What you posted is all rubbish, but then you're an Obama supporter, so truth means nothing to you. I'm not saying that Hillary's campaign has done nothing wrong, but this is just ridiculous. The Obamanuts don't know how to run a campaign, nor win, which is why they are going to lose.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Find me the link...
...it's not there.

I point out the truth and you prefer to call out childish names. That's all you've got as a defense.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Goggle is your friend. You make accusations, then you should do the reseach.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Google doesn't find Obama speeches that don't exist
It's up to the accuser and her minions to prove that Obama equated himself with MLK, JFK or RFK. He has never said that. People who have seen him have. He is not them...

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
88. You say, "Google doesn't find copies of speeches that don't exist."
Edited on Mon Jan-14-08 02:06 AM by truedelphi
What ever is wrong with google these days?

Can't trust it a damn second in helping Hillary make her points.

Could the Google be sexist? Could the Google hate America?
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
95. "Obamanuts"? Boy that kinda talk is really gonna make it easy
For you to get them to back HRC if the media does force her nomination through.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
101. "Obamanuts", at least ya didn't call them the "Obamanation"
:eyes:

Though God knows ya wanted to, didn't ya?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
102. the obamanauts-
hi. greetings from obamaville. here is a news flash for you. the obamanauts have won every election he has been in, with the exception of NH. and the current obamanauts consist of a lot of the folks that brought you -gasp- bill clinton. it has been called the chicago connection, which, if you will recall, is one of the most solidly BLUE cities on the planet.
if you can just keep your candidate honest, i will follow mine to the white house.
that is all.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks. This sit-down may come back to haunt her.
Perhaps she should have stuck with her earlier avoidance strategy.

:kick: and rec.

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. If it does come back to haunt her it will mean there were lies - but I see none - so it would be
a revelation and it would be good that we get it early. Conversely, if there is truth in her comments - as there appears to be at first glance - she will have put Timmy to bed for the rest of the campaign.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. papau.. just heard there is a debate scheduled between "the three" candidates...
any idea who the moderator is? and when the debate is scheduled to air?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. I thought Hillary whipped Timmy's ass - as for those "lies" - none are lies - use
your search engine of choice to find the details.

However, your opinion is as valid as Hillary's as to her "experience" and the meaning of words -past and present.

As to Penn, what has been done wrong other than take the CEO job 2 years ago with a firm with a PR dept that helps companies fight off unions - A JOB HE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY LEFT TO BE IN HER CAMPAIGN.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. It was great FUN watching Hil dish it back to Russturd!!
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. PURE BS! Penn IS Still Affiliated w/ These Organizations Through His Partnership
In His PR Firm... Half the Bush Finance Team Is On Her Campaign... Bush W/ a skirt... Total Corproatist! Not to say that Obama Is Not Also A Corporatist... Just look at the Wall Street Contributions ... a virtual tie for both!

NO CHANGE FROM EITHER OF THESE TWO DLC'ERS! Jus t more of the same ole same ole. :puke:
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. She made false statement about Edwards' stance on fiscal responsibility too---
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 12:14 PM by sojourner
edited for spelling...and to add: Just to report on mischaracterizations made by HRC -- not to bash or otherwise defame the woman. She brought it to Russert, good on her.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. So, what was the false statement?
you didn't say..
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
65. no link, and relying on a post here...
according to poster, HRC said Edwards was not committed to fiscal responsibility (or words to that effect) - which is absolute nonsense. Mea Culpa, however, for not checking before mentioning it, and the thread sank like a rock so I can't verify it for you. Sorry.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
70. found the link....
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. What did Penn say that was wrong?
And exactly how does a present vote create a tactical advantage?
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Brilliant work!!
You always do a good job of representing Obama and his supporters on DU. Good job!!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Debunking - Round 1
Zulchzulu says: 3. Hillary said Obama's Iraq speech in 2002 was off his web site. It was ON his web site. The text of the speech is also on his web site. She continued to distort Obama's statements on the Iraq War. Obama has set forth that he will not vote for more funding without timelines.


No, Hillary said Obama took it off his website.

While running for Senate in 2003, Sen. Obama acknowledged that he took his anti-war speech off his campaign website, calling it 'dated.' Specifically, State Senator Obama maintains that an October 2002 anti-war speech was removed from his campaign web site because “the speech was dated once the formal phase of the war was over, and my staff's desire to continually provide fresh news clips." (Black Commentator, 6/19/03 - http://www.blackcommentator.com/47/47_cover.html)

Sen. Obama waited 18 months to give his first speech on the Senate floor devoted to Iraq, in which he opposed a timeline for withdrawal. Obama said "I'm also acutely aware that a precipitous withdrawal of our troops, driven by Congressional edict rather than the realities on the ground, will not undo the mistakes made by this Administration. It could compound them." (Obama Speech, 6/21/06 - http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060621-floor_statement_6/index.php)

More to come as more of the transcript becomes available...



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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Obama's 2002 speech on the Iraq War is ON his web site
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

If the Clinton people wanted say that they are referring to his web site FOUR YEARS AGO, perhaps they would like to include that fact.

Obama's 2002 speech has been on his Presidential web site ever since it was launched.

As for Obama's support for the troops after careless people like Hillary Clinton put our troops in harm's way with her vote for war, I can't blame him for wanting to support the troops. They do need funding for protection in a war that was not needed and they have been dying because people like Hillary Clinton set the stage for them to go into Iraq underprotected and underprepared.

It could be said that Obama actually supports the troops by not sendiing them into harm's way while Hillary Clinton would rather appeal to the warmongers for votes and to act "tough".

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. but at one time he took it off. Which is what Hillary said and Obama admits it! LOL!
:)
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Did Obama take the text of his 2002 speech off his 2003 web site?
Perhaps Hillary could make that a big issue... last I checked, that was FIVE YEARS AGO.

Actually, there's an Obama press release from 2003 that go against the "truth-stretch" the Clintons make on his view on the war funding:

Obama challenged the Congress to 'stand up to the misplaced priorities of this Administration' by delaying the $87 billion for Iraq until the President provides a specific plan and timetable for ending the U.S. occupation, justifies each and every dollar to ensure it is not going to reward Bush political friends and contributors, and provides 'investment in our own schools, health care, economic development and job creation that is at least comparable' to what is going to Iraq. 'It's not just Iraq that needs rebuilding. It's America, too,' Obama said.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/01/6786_desperate_in_nh_1.html


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Ask Obama. But what Hillary said was accurate.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Are you implying what was on Obama's site 5 YEARS AGO is an issue we should look at?
Cherrypicking his quote in the NYT is one thing and to be expected from the HillaryWorld triangulators. But to make an issue on essentially is something that happened FIVE YEARS AGO is an issue we should bring to the table now?

Obama's speech has been on his presidential web site ever since it was launched a year ago. Have you read his wonderful speech that pretty much punks suckers like Hillary, who voted for the war.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Are you denying Obama ever took his speech off his site?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. I find it IRRELEVANT if Obama took something off his site 5 YEARS AGO
I don't know if he took the video on or off the site. It was in the public domain by then anyway. Did he still have the text of his speech on his site five years ago? Maybe.

What year is it now? 2003? Last I checked, and maybe it's because I'm ahead of my time, but I'm pretty sure it's 2008. I also know that Obama has had the video and text of his brilliant 2002 statement against the Iraq War ON his site for at least a year.

Maybe he had something he had in kindergarden that he took out when he was in first grade. Get some oppo research on that. I'm sure Penn would love to see it.

:crazy:


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. But in your OP you said it was a lie.
:shrug:

And it is completely irrelevant in the timeline of Obama's shady position on the war.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. One would assume that the Clintons know it's 2008 and not 2003 in terms of web content
Perhaps you can remind them that something on Obama's web site five years ago is a little pathetic. I would also have you remind them that what Hillary and Bill supported back in 2002 with the Iraq War shows where they stand.

No matter how much they continue to be pathological liars that use the art of deflection to steer away from their own guilt, it is evident that they can't stand the truth.

They are scared and on the defensive. Perfect!

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. obama DID HIMSELF compare HIMSELF to JFK, among other things.
I'm sure most of the other LIES you MADE UP could be picked apart as well...

That was what was so disgusting about OBAMA - that HE HIMSELF had to say it, did not simply rely on OTHERS to say it about him, which would be a stretch in and of itself...
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. links please?
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. This IS True....
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Link me the transcript or video of the speech...
There isn't one where Obama says he is like JFK or MLK. Prove that there is.

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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
64. STILL WAITING for that quote.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
66. Yes, please provide a link. I don't know of one instance myself. nt
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
86. I'd like to see a link, too
if it's not too much to ask. Obama never did any such thing - although I recall Ethel Kennedy and a few others making some comparisons to either RFK or JFK. Obama has always distanced himself from those comparisons - I REALLY want to know where you get your info from. Typing BIGGER doesn't make it any more true. Links would, maybe, if they're not from articles by Rush.

Now, Obama may have said he'd been inspired by JFK - I don't have a link, it's a hypothetical, as I'm sure many of us have been inspired by JFK and RFK, and MLK. The fact is Obama compared himself to NONE of them. You are spreading lies, and perhaps should do some research before posting them.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-15-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
110. Link please?
Pulling stuff out of your arse doesn't count.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. major one for me- "I don't pay attention to polls, never have never will"*
* not sure of the exact wording, but it was the substance.

It was said in response to polls that say she couldn't beat McCain if I'm not mistaken.

My 24yr old was sitting here listening to this with me, and he picked right up on that-

I'm looking forward to the transcript- I want to read the context and actual words.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
77. That's like a drunk never paying attention to whether to order a soda or not n/t
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. I don't believe anything I read on DU anymore unless it uses DIRECT QUOTES.
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 12:44 PM by Sparkly
On edit: Direct quotes with full context.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Once the transcript is available, I'd be glad to fully explain where she was lying
I wanted to live-blog about it as I saw it.

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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. The Real Issue In This Interview Is That Russert Was Weak! Let Her BS and Filibuster to Kill Time!
When the topic got to the Economy ... WHERE WAS THE OBVIOUS ... NAFTA Question? While I cannot agree w/ all the statements above I will concur that Hillary is one of the most egregious liars in history...

He Should have hit her on some details about the 35 years? A certain crock... and while he mentioned Marc Rich ..and maybe caught her on some fibbing there... Where were the questions about Norman HSu, Peter Paul, Chinese DishwasherGate... and on and on?

It was a poor effort from Russert which I have come to expect and was completely predictable. :puke:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
36. Spewing vile lies: It's a Hillary speciality. n/t
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. "Her speech at that time proved that she was for attacking Saddam."
Bullshit!

Hillary's speech - some of it:

My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

Over eleven years have passed since the UN called on Saddam Hussein to rid himself of weapons of mass destruction as a condition of returning to the world community. Time and time again he has frustrated and denied these conditions. This matter cannot be left hanging forever with consequences we would all live to regret. War can yet be avoided, but our responsibility to global security and to the integrity of United Nations resolutions protecting it cannot. I urge the President to spare no effort to secure a clear, unambiguous demand by the United Nations for unlimited inspections.

*******

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.


I hope that MTP is repeated. I missed it and the way it is being tortured here it must have been really good. And Tim Russert is no softballer. In fact, he is a ballbreaker - remember that debate he monitored?

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. The video from her speech that Russert played showed her as a war hawk
It was her on video. What kind of lame proof is that?

:rofl:

Actually, if you read Hillary's 2002 speech, she talks in just about every direction and view on the war vote. What is obvious historically is that she DID vote for the war. As they say, actions speak louder than words.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks for doing opposition research for us.
signed

Karl Rove.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. LOL!
Such desperation when exposed...

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. Yeah, it is amazing how quickly we form that circular firing squad.
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rockybelt Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. Ever notice how much
those that support HRC sound a whole lot like those that support the repubs? Just sayin.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Funny - I notice that it's the obamabots who fit that description...
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #43
93. Oh, please. Just go away.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
50. A few you left out:
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 01:54 PM by jenmito
She said everything Russert said was false (but it was all true) regarding statements she and Bill made).

She said Obama's campaign said she was indirectly responsible for the assassination of Bhutto. (I don't even think she said "indirectly." I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt).

She said Obama didn't introduce any legislation against the war when he was in the Senate. I guess she "forgot" the Iraq De-escalation Act that he sponsored. (I'm just specifying something about what you already mentioned).

She said HE only speaks about change. If she gets to use her past 35 years as "experience," why can't he get to use his past 18 years, including when he was a community organizer, etc.?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
71. It's dizzying keeping up with all the lies
I tried to get to the ones I could pick out, but it was a flurry of many lies at once. Thanks for pointing those out.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
54. UPDATE: the OP has now downgraded one point from "lie" to "irrelevant."
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Hillary and Bill are liars if they say Obama has taken the 2002 speech off his web site
It's been here ever since the Presidential site was started:
http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

If, however, the Clintons want to be their usual deceptive Clintonian selves, they might be alluding to Obama's web site 5 YEARS AGO when they had the text of the speech still on his senate site. The video of his speech is all over the net and has been since 2002.

Here's the video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8

Here's another interview:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po

If the Clintons are referring to a web site from five years ago as something to be considered relevant in this campaign, then that's a good thing. It shows how scared they are and just what low level they will stoop to to make a political point.

I await their drawings that Obama did in First Grade to make another point against Obama.

:rofl:



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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
56. A great quote from Obama on Hillary's performance on MTP
“What we saw this morning is why the American people are tired of Washington politicians and the games they play,” he said. “I have to say that she started this campaign saying that she wanted to make history, and lately she has been spending a lot of time rewriting it."
-Barack Obama

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7864.html
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
57. Adding a rec
Thanks for taking one for the team and sitting through it.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
59. I Don't Watch Either Of Them Anymore... Unless I Know John Edwards
is going to be involved! I'm really tired of hearing them smack each other down. I can't say that I'm COMPLETELY above the fray, but DO try NOT to go there!

I make MISTAKES like everyone else, it's human! And last I looked, my hands aren't dragging below my knees! Sorry.... I JUST couldn't help myself on that one! It was so very... WHATEVER!


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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
62. It's the manner in which Hillary takes us for idiots that makes us not vote for her at all
in any election, no matter what. I'm with Edwards now but will not support Hillary. I will not back anyone who so regularly and egregiously insults my intelligence to see such obvious deceptions.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. It appears to be no accident that her supporters are generally the least intelligent among us
She appears to cater to their "needs".

It sounds unfair, but it has been documented that her followers are the least informed, the least educated and the least successful. That is no accident.

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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #67
89. the least successful?
wow. I'd be willing to bet there unsuccessful people in all the camps. I myself am not successful by traditional measurement and yet I support Edwards.

I'm sure you misspoke, but if not, please explain.
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
68. She is one lying manipulating scum...Hate to see her win anything.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
69. Online link to interview
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
72. K&R, bookmarked
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
73. The Swiftboaters against Kerry had more truth than the OP's Swiftboat of Clinton does.
The Golden Globe for Fiction goes to the OP.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
75. Thanks zulch.
I knew Hilly would be bad but never did I dream she'd be this bad.

:kick:
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
76. .
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
78. I had to take a shower after watching MTP.
The woman makes my skin crawl.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. me, too
from what little I could stomach, I thought Timmy nailed her on her IWR vote! Watching her spin and triangulate elicited the same reaction I have to Bush... I turned it off.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. because it is the same
Watching her spin and triangulate elicited the same reaction I have to Bush.

I think most agree we've had more than enough of that. :puke:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. I was trying to eat breakfast watching MTP and my jaw kept dropping
I was actually hoping she was going to take the high road. It turns out she wanted a surrogate to say Obama once got high. I guess I was close....

Let's just say I didn't finish the egg frittata. My dog was barking at the TV. She can smell evil a mile away.



:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. I couldn't put my finger on it until later.
Her performance on MTP mimicked Mark Penn's cheese on Hardball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQxyaweiYQ
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
81. Can you imagine how much Hillary will lie once she gets to the White House?
President Hillary will keep the country in perpetual war, and she will continue the country's slide into totalitarianism.

The axis of Hillary's propaganda will be:

War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
90. I watched MTP
And after Dame Hillary spent the whole show outlining Obama's shortcomings, she couldn't give a simple, straighforward answer to Tim's last question. He asked if she thought Obama was not qualified to be president. In fine Hillary fashion, she repeatedly DODGED an answer! Who want's a president that can't take a stand??????? As ludicrous as it might be, at least Chimpy can say, flat out "I'M the Decider!" Three words and you know where he stands. One hour-long show and Hillary spent it showing that she's graduated to status quo of Inside Washington. And from this we're to expect that "Change" could blossom. Right.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #90
108. A simple, straighforward answer from Hillary?
:rofl:

Stop it!
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
91. Thanks zulchzulu, spot on analysis.
Beyond the duplicity in condescending mannerisms demonstrated by HRC, her person does nothing to inspire me. When there's no TRUST, there's also no HOPE nor Devotion toward a leader. :shrug:
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
94. I agree (link)
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styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
96. A very Limbaugh-esque treatment of the interview.
Bits and pieces taken out of context and twisted, you opinions stated as fact and personal attack.

All those years of AM radio have really paid off for you.
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
97. The title of the op.....
is deceptive. It should read "Hillary's List of Lies and Deception on Meet The Press, Based Upon My Personal Opinion Which is Based Upon My Illogical Hatred." Thanks.
quickesst
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #97
100. The truth appears to be too painful for people like you
You have to kneejerk back that it's "hate".

As you fawn beneath the feet of the liars, remember that they will betray you again like they did the first time. Bask in their smiles as they pass legislation like NAFTA, the Defense of Marriage Act, the Telecommunications Act and China free trade agreements... all stripping away the middle class.

I find anyone finding appeal with these turncoats illogical. And when they lie, as they often do, they will not get away with a free pass.




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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #100
109. Actually....
what I find painful is the deceptiveness of the op. What's even more painful, is the number of people who buy into it. And the "hate" remark? Do a search. No reasonable person can deny it for what it is. Thanks.
quickesst
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
98. As a point of reference - the debunking of the debunking
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
99. DIVIDE DEMOCRATS DIVIDE
ITS WORKING...
---- OUR ATTEMPT TO BREAK THE PARTY OF DEMOCRATS INTO SPITEFUL HATE-FILLED PEOPLE IS WORKING...

---- WE WILL AGAIN BE ABLE TO CLAIM...

THE REPUBLICANS UNITE FOR THE ELECTION... AND DIVIDE THE SPOILS
THE DEMOCRATS DIVIDE FOR THE ELECTION... AND DIVIDE NOTHING

REMEMBER MY REPUBLICAN BROTHERS... DUE TO THE EXPECTED HIGH TURNOUT... IN 2008

THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE VOTING ON NOVEMBER 4
WE REPUBLICANS WILL BE VOTING ON NOVEMBER 5
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
103. I think Edwards and Obama are going pound her ass
in the debate. I think her and campaign surrogates have riled them up
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
104. Your opinion is debunked. nt
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. Actually the "debunk" fell flat when it came to actual facts
1. Hillary said that Obama compared himself to MLK or JFK. He mentioned them in his speech. Did he say he was like them? No. The speech picked hardly says that Obama compares himself to either person.

2. I have emails from the Clinton campaign email list saying after the Philadelphia debate that the other opponents "were piling on a woman". You have surrogates like Ferraro claiming the whole race is about sexism. You have enough proof that she uses the Gender Card as a ploy in her speeches and branding.

3. The Clintons may be referring to a web site 5 YEARS AGO where the video (not the speech or Obama's firm stance against the Iraq War) may be been replaced, but if we are talking about the RECENT race, the speech and video are on the web site. This is a pathetic attack on Obama's firm stand against the war. If you are proud that the Clintons cherry-pick the content of a web site FIVE YEARS AGO, then good for you.

4. What about Penn? Surely one immediate story conjured up by Penn was the Obama Kindergarden paper, which he ingeniously said was a joke after the rest of the media called him on his dirty, pathetic tactic. It has been noted that the use of an opponent's kindergarden paper as an issue in Presidential politics is one for the history books of dirty politics.

5. Hillary explicitly states that Obama was all about rhetoric and didn't have any accomplishments to speak of. She is woefully incorrect.

6. Hillary's jab at Obama's lobbyist reform obviously goes to the heart of her lobbyist-driven campaign. Since she would never be able to pass such legislation without losing millions of dollars that fuel her campaign, she can't mention lobbying disclosure rules including lobbyists seeking government contracts and presidential pardons, enforcing congressional lobbying laws and ethics rules through an independent entity, making legislation transparent by having all records available over the net and other features. She can't mention that for fear of just how bought out her campaign is.

7. As has been mentioned before, Hillary's 2002 speech is a template for future Democratic charlatans to be able to take every side of an issue before they finally end up voting for the Republican plan. Russert exposed her for the war hawk she is with the video telling Saddam to "disarm or be disarmed". She can't admit she made a mistake and we shouldn't ever trust her that she can make an intelligent decision regardin putting our troops in harm's way for an illegal war. She is a Republican-style war hawk who would rather send troops to war so she can look "tough".

8. Hillary's experience as First Lady does not give her any legislative experience and the only thing she can say she accomplished was "meeting World leaders". Was she in the same room with the President deciding policy? No. She was clinking teacups with the leader's wives and being shown their gardens.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
105. I am exhausted listening to
shit out of the mouths of insane people. Start your cult talk elsewhere.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. Lemme guess... you're a Hillary supporter
I could smell the twisted victimized anger in your dreadful post. Are you looking for an intern gig in the Clinton White House? Bring rubbers.

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