Obama admits he says things he doesn't mean (Iraq). How, then, can you really know where he stands?

[Skip Intro]

MR. RUSSERT: You were not in the Senate in October of 2002. You did give a speech opposing the war. But Senator Clinton’s campaign will say since you’ve been a senator there’s been no difference in your record. And other critics will say that you’ve not been a leader against the war, and they point to this: In July of ‘04, Barack Obama, “I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don’t know,” in terms of how you would have voted on the war. And then this: “There’s not much of a difference between my position on Iraq and George Bush’s position at this stage.” That was July of ‘04. And this: “I think” there’s “some room for disagreement in that initial decision to vote for authorization of the war.” It doesn’t seem that you are firmly wedded against the war, and that you left some wiggle room that, if you had been in the Senate, you may have voted for it.

SEN. OBAMA: Now, Tim, that first quote was made with an interview with a guy named Tim Russert on MEET THE PRESS during the convention when we had a nominee for the presidency and a vice president, both of whom had voted for the war. And so it, it probably was the wrong time for me to be making a strong case against our party’s nominees’ decisions when it came to Iraq.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21738432/page/2/


He admits saying things in 2004 that he didn't really mean, for political reasons.

So when is he being straight with you and I, and when is he saying whatever he feels the political climate demands? And for what reasons would he say things he supposedly didn't really mean, other than political ambition?

When else is he dishonest?

Now? Then? Tomorrow?

[thunder rising]

1. I liked his response. I like his reasoning

Tim Russert was digging for a wedge for the Republicans to use and Barack didn't give him one.

[boston bean]

9. That is so naieve. nt

[Spiffarino]

46. Agree 100%

Timmuh! was looking for a stake to stick in Obama's heart and he wouldn't hand it to him. Fuck that right wing tool.

Obama gave the best possible response given the "When did you stop beating your wife" nature of the questions he tends to ask.

Tim Russert is a registered Republican, or at least used to be. He is firmly wedged in the pocket of corporate America. I'd fib to the sonofabitch if he as much as asked my name, or better yet just give him an out and out "fuck you!" At least Obama was thoughtful.

[kikiek]

2. I have him figured out. He is doing better than Bush/Rove ever did at smearing someone with

innuendos and distortions. Many of his followers remind me of cult members or maybe they're planted who knows. I only hope if he makes it into the White House he cleans up his act. He is by far the worst candidate in my book.
Apparently I am not alone in these suspicions http://panmetron.blogspot.com/2007/12/could-obama-campaign-be-using-really.html

[AX10]

3. Obama is the "Chosen One".

Whatever he says is always right.
Even if the statements contradict, they are still right.
:sarcasm:

-or not?

[Kahuna]

4. The difference is, it was not for his own political gain. It was to

help Kerry and the party.

[jackson_dem]

32. By saying there was no difference between him and Bush regarding Iraq that year?

[ProSense]

5. Damn him for trying to ensure that Bush didn't win! It really does call some

people's judgment into question:

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

more

Speaking of smearing a Democrat for political reasons...

[Skip Intro]

6. No, damn him for lying.

deflection is a game I won't play

start a thread on your topic

[ProSense]

12. I don't see a lie, I see spin!

Opposing the war and saying he doesn't know how he would have voted aren't a contradiction. Kerry opposed the war.

[Skip Intro]

14. So did Hillary, for that matter, but the point is Obama's EXCUSE for saying those things.

Political calculation led him to betray his convictions.

He Says So.

[ProSense]

22. A lot of people take issue with Hillary's stance post the IWR vote,

including her vote for Kyl-Lieberman.

[Skip Intro]

27. Sure, that'd make a nice thread. Meanwhile, Obama said things he didn't mean for political reasons.

Wanna talk about that?

[ProSense]

50. No, that's your spin. I think I address that in a previous response. n/t

[Skip Intro]

52. where?

[zulchzulu]

7. What's dishonest is shaving off the critical point that Obama made about the war

Bill Clinton lies when he states the Obama quote. And to be right on cue with the Hillaryworld campaign, you oddly shave off the critical point that Obama made in the New York Times interview about the Iraq War vote:

"I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... 'What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711110004?f=s_search

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9407E2DF153DF935A15754C0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

Hillary, of course, lies about the quote as well. Then again, expecting the truth from the Clintons is like expecting a pile of dog shit to produce Dom Perignon champagne.

[Skip Intro]

8. NO! It's his explanation - he admits he said things he didn't really mean.

It's in the thread's subject line.

[Skip Intro]

11. My God, he talks about politcal timing as an excuse to betray his convictions.

LOOK AT IT!

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Thank You For Your Support

You should be very proud!

Best regards,

Bill & George

[Skip Intro]

13. Evidently the only answer to Obama's own record is to deflect to Clinton.

Where have I seen that before?

[Yurovsky]

16. Keep calling Obama a liar ...

the politics of personal destruction is exactly what will BACKFIRE on the Clintons and ensure that Obama wins the Democrat nomination (and then the White House).

[Skip Intro]

21. They aren't my words, they are his. Hard to take for some, I understand. But

he can't stand on a mountain preaching sincereity when his own words betray him, and not expect to be called on it.

It's not American Idol.

[jackson_dem]

33. His own apologists say he lied

[Yurovsky]

17. Keep calling Obama a liar ...

the politics of personal destruction is exactly what will BACKFIRE on the Clintons and ensure that Obama wins the Democrat nomination (and then the White House).

[MannyGoldstein]

18. You're A Very Silly Person

There is obviously zero evidence that Obama actually betrayed his convictions in any substantive ways.

The Clintons, on the other hand, love war and "free" trade, and lie as easily as they draw breath. HRC lies regularly about her vote for war, claiming she believed that Bush would use diplomacy. If that were true, she'd have voted for the Levin amendment to the IWR. Also, at the time of the vote, polls showed that 2/3rds of Americans thought Bush had already decided to go to war. Either HRC is stupider than 2/3rds of Americans, or she's a liar. And I don't think she's stupid.

[Skip Intro]

25. Back to the Clintons we go. Evidence is Obama's own words that he didn't say what he believed

because of political timing. He said it, I didn't.

This is the topic at hand.

Ignore it as you like, but the subject is not the Clintons here.

Nice try tho.

Well, not really, I just said that for political reasons.

Pretty transparent attempt, actually...

[kelligesq]

15. Well then he's a FLIP FLOPPER, doesnt he accuse

his opponents of being flip floppers.

This is disgusting.

The dems had it made, the gops had destroyed their credibility with the American people and now the dems are doing a good job on themselves.

Feh

:puke:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

19. Who knows when he's being straight? Clinton kept her position, Edwards apologized but didn't try to

take two stands at once. Obama admitted you can't believe what he says because sometimes he will do things out of expedience. Just like all run of the mill politicians including most Democrats who voted for the IWR, which Obama admits he might have done. Expedience is part of winning, the problem with Obama is he tries to be holier than thou on Iraq at the same time.

[Didereaux]

20. I wonder -Obama is a scholar,...has he been studying the'Rove's Political Tactics101' book?

[jillan]

26. ouch!

But I agree.
This whole thing is starting to remind me of rovian tactics with the charges of racism and the big deal about her getting teary-eyed.

[Recursion]

23. That's low

He comes up with a diplomatic way to not undercut or nominees, and you turn that against him. Awesome.

[boston bean]

24. here he is on tape. watch for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN30M6StFfk

[jenmito]

28. He didn't say it for HIS political advantage, but to protect Kerry and Edwards.

Nice try.

[Skip Intro]

29. He lied for Kerry and Edwards?

[jenmito]

36. He didn't LIE for them. He tried to minimize the difference between him and them by saying he

doesn't know how he would've voted. He was being non-controversial as to not cause a negative headline after the convention. He didn't do it for his own political gain. Just the opposite.

[Skip Intro]

53. oh. ok. He was against the war, but said there was room for disagreement, pre-Hillary IWR bashing.

got it.

:eyes:

[boston bean]

31. so he will lie about his position to protect kerry and edwards...

[jackson_dem]

34. And we are to "hope" he has "changed" and would not lie to protect his chance to become president...

[jenmito]

38. He never lied at all. And what he DID say was to help others-not himself.

[jackson_dem]

39. He said he doesn't know what he would have done but he didn't mean it

That is lying.

[jenmito]

42. He didn't say he would've supported it like Kerry and Edwards...

go ahead, though, and fault him for protecting those he was about to speak for. :eyes:

[jackson_dem]

43. He said what Bill Clinton said he said: he wasn't sure what he would do

[jenmito]

45. Bill Clinton lied when he said Obama was never questioned about that.

He KNEW that Russert asked him about that and that Obama answered it. And Clinton KNEW Obama's explanation. (Hey-didn't Bill just recently claim he was against the Iraq war from the beginning?) :rofl:

[jackson_dem]

47. Bill was talking about Obama NEVER being asked that in FIFTEEEN debates. Bill was honest agian

[jenmito]

49. He said Obama got a free ride from the media. He lied again...

just like when he said he was against the war from the start. :rofl:

[jackson_dem]

54. Has Obama ever been questioned in a debate about the statement in question?

Obama has largely gotten a free ride especially compared to Hillary, Edwards, and even the Republicans.

[jenmito]

37. He didn't lie. I wonder if YOUR candidate would do such a thing to help someone else politically.

[jackson_dem]

40. I "hope" not

[Barack_America]

30. Hard to fault a guy for defending the candidates nominated by his party...

Russert clearly asked that question to stir-up discord within the party regarding Iraq. Obama didn't bite. It was the right thing to do.

[jenmito]

41. You're right, but as you can see by the posts above, they ARE faulting him.

Not surprising, though. See how they changed the subject when I pointed out he didn't do it for his OWN political gain?

[jackson_dem]

44. The OP's point is Obama is willing to say things he doesn't mean for political advantage

How do we know he isn't doing it now too? "hope"?

[jenmito]

48. The OP claimed he did it for his own political ambitions. He clearly did it DESPITE his political

ambitions. He did it selflessly to help Kerry and Edwards. He didn't bite when Russert tried to stir trouble between him and the guys he was about to speak for.

[jackson_dem]

55. How did he help Kerry and Edwards? What if he said he disagreed with them?

Would that have cost Kerry the election? Barack Obama was a big figure in politics in 2004...

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. Grow up

First of all, it's hilarious in the extreme that the Clintonites would pretend to be so naive about the way language works. This from the master parsers and triangulators themselves, the most politically savvy people in America. Let's not forget that Mr. Clinton told perhaps the most famous public lie of the last twenty years, unless you're so stupid as to buy the whole "what is sex, really" thing. I "hope" you're not that stupid. Let's be serious. Apply your same "honesty" criteria to Mr. Clinton and we can discount immediately everything he's said since 1998. Of course, grown ups don't do that, because they examine situations and make case by case evaluations. Only ignorant fools, partisan hacks, and outright imbeciles apply your set of standards.

Second, saying an argument is not right at a given time doesn't make it a lie. I can come up with 20 arguments for a kid not taking the car out for a spin. Maybe ten would work and ten wouldn't in any given situation. I use them according to their probable effect. That doesn't mean that any of them are LIES. In this case, Mr. Obama was trying to prevent 45 more years of Bush - certainly a worthy goal, I think you'll agree. But you're so consumed with this destructive and asinine attack campaign that even that becomes fodder for your despicable tactics. It's fucking sickening beyond belief.

[jackson_dem]

56. Obamites admit Obama lied. The defense? "Grow up"

-snip-

Mr. Obama was trying to prevent 45 more years of Bush - certainly a worthy goal, I think you'll agree.

-snip-

What Obama thought had no impact on the 2004 election.

[alcibiades_mystery]

57. Who admitted that?

Not me. Again. Grow up. You're acting like a petulant little bully child.

[RufusTFirefly]

35. I vote "present" on this particular thread

:headbang:

[NoBorders]

58. Weak.

You're really stretching here.

[THUNDER HANDS]

59. you are supporting Hillary, right?

I just want to make sure my irony meter isn't running low.