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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:15 PM
Original message
Dirty Clinton Campaign Tactics in NH-Thank you Kos for the truth here.
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 10:14 PM by caligirl
Edit: This was written by' there will be blood' in the diaries at Kos. Someone felt this was intentional. It was not. Now its been corrected. Okay?

The Washington Post enumerates 2 specific instances of the Clinton using questionable tactics:

1. Misleading Democratic women about Obama's pro-Choice record

2. Using Republican style voter suppression tactics

As for the first point, the Clinton campaign has been suggesting that Obama was not committed to a woman's right to choose. The tactic used was to misrepresent Obama's present votes in the Illinois state legislature to suggest that he was suspect on pro-choice. They sent an mass email to women around the state.

"The difference between Hillary's repeatedly standing up strong on choice and Obama's unwillingness to vote 'yes' or 'no' is a clear contrast, and we believe the voters in New Hampshire deserve to know this difference," the letter stated. "We support Hillary Clinton because she never ducked when choice was at stake."

This was also accompanied by flyers sent by the Clinton campaign saying the same thing. This was a clearly cynical fear tactic used by the Clintons to low information voters who don't understand how the Illinois legislature works as New Hampshire doesn't have a 'present vote'. As been documented many other times - Obama is a clearly for woman's choice. His present votes were tactics employed by the Democratic party leadership.

2006. Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From Planned Parenthood In 2006.

2005 Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From NARAL Pro-Choice America In 2005.

2003. Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From Illinois Planned Parenthood Council In 2003.

2002. Obama Was Endorsed By The Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, There Were No Number Ratings Available.

2001. Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From The Illinois Planned Parenthood Council In 2001.

97-98: Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From The Illinois Planned Parenthood Council For 1997-1998.

Note the fact that the Clintons tried to use bogus techniques to try to stop Obama's campaign from trying to tell voters the truth by trying to stop the Obama campaign from calling people and informing them of the truth at the last moment. The Clinton team was essentially charging Obama with illegal telemarketing. Of course, they were wrong about their charges.

664:1 Applicability of Chapter. The provisions of this chapter shall apply to all state primary, general and special elections, but shall not apply to presidential preference primaries.

Did these tactics have an effect?

"It is a direct lie and distortion of the facts of his 'choice' record and I believe it did a lot of damage," said Moore. "The women are all very prominent Democrats, many of them in leadership, and it is sickening."

That is almost unbelievable - mislead voters and then try to stop another campaigns attempt to set the record straight. This is the kind of cynical politics that make it hard for me to have any desire to support the Clinton team, should she win.

The second, more nefarious tactic was voter suppression.

There was

...attempt by Clinton officials to remove Obama volunteers who had been sent to many polling places on primary day to check off the names of voters as they arrived so that the campaign's get out the vote workers would know which of their supporters had and hadn't voted...

Basically they were trying to disrupt the Obama GOTV

Clinton volunteers and local lawyers acting on behalf of the campaign demanded in Nashua, Concord and at least one other town that poll moderators ban the Obama volunteers from the polls, saying that their presence violated a state law stating that only the state party chairmen can delegate people to monitor the polls.

Except it wasn't true. There was nothing wrong about what Obama's team was doing.

The attorney general and Nashua city clerk confirmed this when they were called about the dispute, saying that the Obama volunteers were allowed as members of the public to observe the polls, as long as they didn't get in the way.

But it gets worse

But the Clinton intervention at Ward 9 in Nashua nonetheless persuaded the moderator to ban the Obama observers. And the disputes, which dragged on for hours and grew quite heated, generally scrambled the Obama efforts to keep track of who was and wasn't voting, said Obama supporter Andrew Edwards, a rookie state representative assigned to observe the polls in Nashua, where Clinton ran up a big margin in her favor.

and worse...

Edwards was confronted by Lasky and by another veteran Democrat, state representative and Nashua Democratic chairwoman Jane Clemons, who he said issued a veiled threat during the dispute that he would face a stiff primary challenge in Nashua if he ran for reelection.

The denial?

Clemons denied that she had threatened Edwards with a primary challenge, saying that she simply asked him whether he was planning to run for re-election, which he may have wrongly interpreted as a threat.

Did these tactics have an effect?

"The effect of it was that it basically disrupted our get out the vote operation," said Edwards. "My effectiveness that day was less than 50 percent as a result of the people who kept coming in" to protest the observers..."

Now, I may be wrong, but this is in my mind the kind of Republican tactic that Democrats scream about - and justifiably. What does this mean when Democrats to this to other Democrats?

What kind of campaign sends out cynically misleading mailings and then tries to stop the other campaign from setting the record straight?

What kind of campaign tries to stop another campaign from getting voters to vote?

The margin of victory was less than 8,000 votes. That's it.

Does anyone think that these tactics didn't/don't have an effect?

Naturally people are angry on the Obama team.

Obama supporter Bill Siroty, a former Democratic chair for the town of Amherst, said the ill will is running so high that it could keep Democrats in the state who supported Obama from rallying behind Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, should she win the nomination.

Could that have an impact?

In 2000, bad feelings that lingered among some Bill Bradley supporters about tactics used by Al Gore in the primary - including misleading charges about Bradley's health care plan - were seen as one reason why Gore lost the state to George W. Bush in November, thereby giving Bush just enough Electoral College votes to take the presidency.

What do Clinton's people say?

Bette Lasky, the assistant House majority leader and a top Clinton supporter who was involved in both the e-mail and poll interventions, said she was sorry to hear about the bad feelings but hoped Obama supporters would get over it. "It's politics, and it happens," she said.

I've never been a fan of Hillary, and the recent 'racist' charges that some people are suggesting are bogus in my view. I've never been a fan of hers due to the issues and her lack of apology on the war vote. It was never about her character or her campaign's character.

But the Billy Shaheen, Bob Kerrey and other things that have been happening are changing my view of her. Not that I think that there is any racial bias - just that the campaign will try questionable tactics when desperate.

Some would suggest that the Republicans will do this to Obama if he is the nominee and we all know that they will. I have no doubt that the Obama campaign would fight back.

It is, however, depressing when a Democrat does it, especially one of the stature of Hillary Clinton.

After reading about this in the Post, I have lost all respect for her and her campaign.

"People are very upset about it," said Siroty. "I've heard one or two threaten they're not going to vote for Clinton at all. Tensions are very high, and it could cause a rift."

Indeed.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, New Hampshire Primary, voter suppression, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

View Comments | 502 comments

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/12/175135/819/474/435829
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dirty and not too sophisticated ...Karl Rove was smarter
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. LOL
and sad but very true. Even then some of Rove's dirty operators got caught.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. But this is the greatest part
The "centrist" candidates in the Democratic party always seem to use the most ruthless tactics in the primaries, and then walk into the generals swaying in the middle and talking like they are trying out for the debate society.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not racism, just pure bad character
She's not racist, she'll run over anybody to get what she wants.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yup. She comes first. Nothing else matters.
Awful.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. You nailed it.
I'm thoroughly disgusted.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. DLC politics...Clinton's are proud members
and they play the game well. HRC is now looking like Bush in sheep's clothing.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. TR, I think you may have just coined a new & very appropriate phrase...
"Bush in sheep's clothing" :toast:
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Nice one!
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Whodda thunk it?
The Clintons indulging in dirty pool? Win at all costs, how conservative of them.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Makes me wonder how the Clintons will run the country...
PATRIOT will get a coating of sugar to make it palatable, while the war will continue to rage, but it will disappear from the headlines.

Same play, different cast.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. IG...I couldn't agree more, I get queezy just thinking about it...n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. A coating of sugar
From my view, that's all we got in the 90's, a coating of sugar. Sure, it's better than the pure shit we got from Bush, but it sure ain't a gourmet meal, or even pot roast and potatoes. Just a little sugar to stave off the hunger pangs, that's all they've ever done.
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. Want to know which part of the above diary really got me irritated
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 12:40 AM by Bodhi BloodWave
Bette Lasky, the assistant House majority leader and a top Clinton supporter who was involved in both the e-mail and poll interventions, said she was sorry to hear about the bad feelings but hoped Obama supporters would get over it. "It's politics, and it happens," she said.

its basically a case of "hey, we lied about his views on choice and hindered poll observers to do what they are allowed to, but who cares it happens"
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I agree.
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 09:36 PM by dkf
I don't trust her with the powers George Bush wrested out of the system either.

And she is just as bought and paid for as Bush ever was.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Like you pointed out elsewhere, Clinton started renditions in 1994...
will much really change?
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. Didn't know about that
underhanded tactics in office and even while running for it.
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R - This shows Hillary's true colors.
I wonder what the Obama campaign is doing to combat it from happening again? She is playing more dirty tricks in Nevada. I don't think I could vote for her in the General Election, if she wins. If she makes it, it will be by dirty tricks.

I wish Obama would try and do the same to her, but I think he's too much of a good man with too much honor and pride. Not a bad thing, but I hope he can still beat her.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. And remember, she ran a witch coven in the White House
Oh, wait, that's the other side's mud ...

--p!
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. as intelligent a response as I've seen from any Clinton supporter. Rock on!
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. That's some scary Rove/Bush type stuff right there...
if Rove/Bush had done this the Clinton supporters would scream bloody murder.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. FWIW, the Kos thread is now up to over 800 comments
and still rising fast. This has gotta be a record even for Kos.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. Now getting close to 900, last I checked
It's nice to see how seriously Dems take the issue of open elections. Considering our experience at the hands of Bush in 2000 and 2004, we must be tough on ourselves as well.
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kos didn't write the story. Why do you thank him?
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 09:42 PM by antiimperialist
You are giving the impression that is one of those stories written by Kos at the top of the site.
Thank some diarist called "there will be blood" instead.

It's a nice try though. Kos carries more weight by a person we've never heard of.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Kos is in part the well known name of a well known site, short hand for Daily Kos
I am not giving any such impression. Your incorrect in this assertion. Not at all what my intention was just because you thought it was doesn't make it so.But if I left "there will be blood' off at the top I will happily get that corrected. Nothing was intended here.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. No Hillaroids yet? Oh yeah, this week's project is to try and quash DK and JE
Damn I hate te Clintons
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. They've already caused the rift
I've been talking to my Dem friends and acquaintances, and now for the first time, most say that if Hillary were nominated, they're voting for McCain. The Clintons are well on the way to destroying our party.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. You are in a very long line, friend.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. That's enough. To ALL DUers, this demands a lawsuit
No more. It's time to take off the kid gloves and hit the Clintons hard for this.

Disenfranchising voters is an absolute no-no in a democratic nation, and this will not stand.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. file a complaint with Howard Dean? who is going to sue? I'm on board.
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 10:35 PM by caligirl
The teachers in Nevada who are suing. I think they are part of the AFT which is present in southern Californai. I'de wonder about their efforts to assist Hil in voter suppression in other places as well.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. That's an excellent idea-- the DNC, other "neutral" organizations should have a say here
This is what's desperately in need for this.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I fired off an email to SOS debra Bowen asking that she restate
the primary rules to the dems before the Feb 5 primary. And sent a full copy of the diary from Daily Kos above. Its a start.
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elizm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. Watch out...the moderator will move this thread to Election Reform like the last one...
Even though it doesn't belong there. This is about DIRTY POLITICS in the current election...if that isn't political discussion I don't know what is.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. How despicable campaign tactics gets shoved over to ER just because the Clintonistas
attempted to suppress campaign tactics was beyond me.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. They ought to combine it with the other thread
that is exactly the same.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
25. hmmm. I got
one of those mailings- It did paint Obama as less than firm on his Pro-Choice stance, but I didn't believe it.
And now I'm doubly glad that I didn't take it at face value-

I'll have to look and see if I have it in my pile.

I saved a bunch of the political mass mailings to use in a "Primary" Altered Art project :P

peace~
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. I'm glad I read this Today someone asked me if Obama was pro-choice.
I had heard there was some question about this issue and I said I thought he was, but I was not sure. I am happy to be clear on this
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. its very important to understand the Illinois option of voting
present is a strategy worked out by planned parenthood WITH Obama and democrats as a response to the ugly tactics repugs were working on. They were trying to pigeon hole dems on. Important that if you talk about this you can explain Illinois allows this and it is not an anti abortion vote.

kI am an Edwards suppporter but I won't stand by while people get this all wrong.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. I'm an Edwards supporter too, but I won't stand for dirty tricks
even against Edwards' opponents. It is not right. I do state my opinions which are sometimes negative about the other candidates.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
34. Mainstream media attention: Getting prominent Democrats to discuss this,
writing letters to the editor-- this will start to bring the issue into broader public view.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
39. kinda confusing that one of Obama's volunteers was named Edwards
What is wrong with that guy? He's not even supporting his own 3rd cousin?

Just politics, according to Laske. I wonder if she was acting on her own or under orders? Either way, I put much of the onus on her, because she is under no compulsion to follow orders.

And Gore did lose New Hampshire. Interesting tidbit, and unfortunate tactics.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Yeah, I noticed that
Did more than just one double-take on it!
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
40. Kos = How To Lose An Election, BIG TIME. Sore Losers
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Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
41. Thank you for posting this.
Bookmarked.
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