96% of African American voted for Lyndon B. Johnson. They knew it took a president to get it done

[antiimperialist]

My opinion about this controversy about Hillary Clinton's remarks is that with Barry Goldwater at the helm, the civil rights achievements seen in the mid and late 60's would probably not have happened, although with MLK's determination and other black civil rights leaders, it would have eventually happened, but I wouldn't be so sure that it would have happened as early as it happened thanks to Johnson's help.
Goldwater was a racist ultra-wingnut who lost by a zillion votes among African Americans for a reason.

Goldwater ran on a racist Southern platform. That wouldn't have helped at all.

I don't have the data available, but the 96% looks like a record, and it is indicative of their trust in Johnson regarding advances in the civil rights movemement.

[Mother Of Four]

1. ....

:popcorn:

[peoli]

19. ...

[wndycty]

2. Johnson was not running against MLK. . . I bet the Black folk would have supported MLK

:kick:

[antiimperialist]

9. MLK would have been shot faster if he ran, IMO n/t

[chascarrillo]

28. Classy!

Keep it up!

[HeraldSquare212]

3. But Hillary was supporting Goldwater in that election...nt

[wndycty]

5. She was a Goldwater girl wasn't she?

:kick:

[1corona4u]

11. Obama did drugs when he was young, didn't he?

Does that mean he still does them?

[goldcanyonaz]

12. Touche.

[indimuse]

20. I'll double that!

:kick::kick:

[wndycty]

15. No but last I saw he didn't diss the anti-drug crowd way the same Hillary did MLK

:kick:

[1corona4u]

25. No, Obama just disses childhood friends....

it might look bad to associate with a childhood friend, who's gotten in trouble with the law;

Remember this;

Life of Obama's Childhood Friend Takes Drastically Different Path

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2989722&page=1


I wonder what 'negative' stories he has?

[antiimperialist]

6. We are not voting for teenage Hillary. We are voting for adult Hillary n/t

[fightindonkey]

17. Yes, The One With Experience, And Makes The Rookie Look Like A Deer In The Headlights In Debates

[indimuse]

21. all the better...

Go Hillary!:kick:

[martymar64]

27. Speak for yourself.

I'm not voting for either teenage Hillary or Middle-Aged Hillary. IMO, they both suck.

[vee]

4. I'm convinced that had there been

a sun flare of substantial size during the early 60's that the civil right achievements would
not have happened also. So, not all but some of the credit goes to the sun.

[rodeodance]

7. YES--like today--IF the PRES does NOT want to get out of IRAG--then all the

resolutions in the world will not do it.

A president to believes in an issue is very important. That was her point

[Didereaux]

8. Also if the 'Dixiecrats' hadn't jumped ship and Dems needed more Southern votes, LBJ would not have

pushed for the civil Rights Act either. Way to many biographies and histories that have documented that fact to even attem
LBJ understood that in order to even have a chance to take back some of the Southern bloc that the only demographic bloc open were the disenfranchised blacks. BY pushing the CR Act he gave hundreds of thousands the vote and in return gained a solid and very loyal group. Did his actions result in good? Of course it did, but 'good' was not the primary goal, as all things political must reduce to it was political power that was the motivator and goal.

Of all the 'Great Emancipators' among the biggies, one actually appears even in historical perspective to actually have believed in the CR Act for compassionate, and ideological reasons...Kennedy! Nope not Jack, but BOBBY!

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. This is silly

Nobody is disputing the fact that without the steady support of Johnson, it would have been much more difficult to push through any Civil Rights legislation of any value. That's well and truly established, so posting that is essentially useless, unless you are just playing dishonest strawman games.

The problem is in the way Senator Clinton argued by analogy. If you spend a week saying or otherwise implying that "My opponent is all style and no substance and what we really need is somebody who can actually get things done," and then you note - whether explicitly by way of example or not - that the work of Martin Luther King's work was excellent, but what Civil Rights really needed was somebody like Lyndon Johnson who could get things done, it diminishes, by analogy, the work of those people.

At the end of the day, it's a stupid distinction to begin with, because it sets up a chicken and egg question with no real resolution. Without the dedication, hard work, and inspiration of those in the Civil Rights Movement trenches, you'd never even get to a moment when Johnson could do anything; without some Establishment imprimatur, much of that hard work and inspiration would have been wasted, or - as you note - taken much longer to achieve results. But it's not one or the other. You can't value one over the other. The problem with Senator Clinton's statement was that she seemed to value one of the other through the process of analogy (if she values her experience over her opponent's supposed "hope" message, etc.).

You're turning a question about the way things are valued into a question of simple fact - a simple fact that few would dispute. This seems to be missing the mark of the argument, and that's the most generous reading of your post.

[JohnnyLib2]

13. Having "grown up" politically in those years,

I'd say that motives were mixed, just as they are now. It saddens me to hear the current divisions over who deserves more or most credit. MLK was incredibly courageous and motivating for his times; LBJ took a giant step in light of his background. I say that, having been greatly affected by his decisions re: Viet Nam.

This Clinton supporter is not happy with her part in this week's flap, but it isn't a deal-breaker, either.

End of elder's comments!

[Didereaux]

14. Take away either MLKs organizational achievements or LBJs need for southern votes, you get NO 64 CRA

[antiimperialist]

18. Would we have gotten them with Goldwater instead? n/t

[Didereaux]

23. No, why would you ask that? the republicans got the Dixiecrats, black vote counters them

[Colobo]

16. Stupid argument.

[Nimrod2005]

22. WTF? What kind of logic is this?

[Essene]

24. Stop deflecting Hillary's disgraceful diss of MLK & the civil rights movement

[BringBigDogBack]

26. this isn't helping your candidate