I will never forgive John Edwards (he did to Kucinich what Gore did to Nader)

[no name no slogan]

I will never forgie John Edwards for being a Johnny-come-lately progressive. He co-opted Kucinich's platform and plays his trial-lawyer millionaire self off as a working-class hero.

:popcorn:

[trumad]

1. Nice right wing talking point there....

and I hope you gag on your popcorn.

[no name no slogan]

3. How is Edwards copying Kucinich's platform a right-wing talking point?

Care to explain?

Here, I'll share
:popcorn:

[Radical Activist]

13. That's right. Anything not said by Edwards is a right wing talking point.

If Obama orders a ham sandwich for lunch then someone on a blog will call it a right wing talking point.

[ellisonz]

25. He supports Big Pork.

[no name no slogan]

27. EVERYBODY supports big pork -- IT'S DELICIOUS

I LOVE PORK!!!!!

(sorry flvegan, I can't help my carnivore tendencies)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. Do you even know what Edwards' background and life story is? nt

[no name no slogan]

5. Yes, I do

Do you know Dennis Kucinich's?

:popcorn:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. Obviously you don't if you're pretending Edwards was born in silk diapers. nt

[no name no slogan]

24. I never said anything about where he was born

I said he was a millionaire trial lawyer-- which he is.

BTW, did you know Dennis Kucinich lived in a car as a child?

[JeffR]

29. Good point.

But, significantly, you fail to mention that that car had 28,000 square feet of living space.

(On second thought, as a Kucinich supporter, I think I'll just back away before the shrapnel really starts to fly here...)

[no name no slogan]

32. Ixnay on the arkay....

:hide:

[JeffR]

34. Whoops

:blush:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. You said he was a millionaire lawyer, without mention that he grew up in poverty and is self-made.

Your intention was clear.

[no name no slogan]

46. No I didn't. All I said was that he was a millionaire trial lawyer

and a Johnny-come-lately to the progressive schtick.

I should also mention that Dennis Kucinich no longer lives in a car, either.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

48. Like I said. Your intentions can be seen from a mile away. nt

[no name no slogan]

50. My intentions are my own.

John Edwards is a millionaire trial lawyer. And Dennis Kucinich is a millionaire (?) politician.

BTW, did you know that Dennis Kucinich is a card-carrying union member (as am I, but that's another story for another time)?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

52. I like Kucinich. I never said anything bad about him.....

However, I just don't think Kucinich could win the presidency. I'm SURE that if Kucinich could win the presidency, he'd probably make all my dreams come true. After all, I'm the world's biggest hater of corporations. However, this country is very backwards, looks at image, and Kucinich, I think, doesn't have that certain "image" that Americans want to see in a candidate. Why do you think candidates spend so much money on advisers? They want to get as polished as possible, to appeal to that image the American voter wants. It's sad, I hate it intensely, but that's our country. It'd be nice if we could change it. I'd be first in line to change it.

[no name no slogan]

54. I like Edwards too. In fact I like something about all of them

But this post was originally in response to another thread that said Kucinich backstabbed Edwards by his actions in Iowa re: Obama. I've been involved in politics for 20+ years, and what Kucinich and Obama did in Iowa is not different from things I've seen before-- and that INCLUDES Paul Wellstone's first senate campaign in 1990 too (yes, there was dealmaking that went on then, too-- although that damn convention still went seven loooooong ballots to get a freaking nomination, but I digress)....

I've also done my share of compromising in those years, too. I sold my soul to work for Dukakis in 1988, because I thought he was "electable"-- even though my own beliefs were closer to Sen. Paul Simon's or Jesse Jackson's. Still I was a good party man and went with the "electable" choice. Needless to say, we got our asses kicked.

It was with a fair amount of sadness/cynicism I watched the party almost repeat, word for word, the same mistakes with Kerry's campaign in 2004 that we'd made in 1988.

Now, I don't worry about what's "electable". ANY candidate is "electable", unless s/he is a felon (well, I take that back-- GWB was electable). I go with the candidate who best matches my beliefs, and if there isn't one, I stay uncommitted in the primaries and vote Dem in the general election.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against John Edwards. If he's the nominee, I'll gladly vote for him. But I think it's wrong to blame Kucinich for his 2nd place showing in Iowa.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. Look, if both Edwards and Kucinich had the same image....

... and both were (in my view) equally likely to get elected, I'd vote Kucinich. See what I'm getting at? I'm going to put my vote towards whoever is more likely to "get there." If either of them could get there, sure I know Kucinich is more lib. I'd vote for him. But that's not the way it works. :(

[no name no slogan]

58. I know whaty you're saying (I think we all vote "electable" to some extent)

I've done the same in many elections. As the late great columnist Molly Ivins said, "vote your heart in the primary, vote your head in the general election".

Best of luck to you and John Edwards this year. Of course, given how brutally short this primary season is, it will probably all be done within five weeks (I'm NOT a fan of a short primary season). :hi:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

60. To you too. Me, I'm just hoping for a candidate that will cut the legs off the corporations and....

chop up those free trade agreements into mulch.

[no name no slogan]

61. We're the same boat!

:thumbsup: :D

[Sarah Ibarruri]

64. Cool!

:thumbsup: :D

[Pastiche423]

69. johnnyboy did not grow up in poverty

He grew up middle class. Ask anyone in Robbins, North Carolina.

[frogmarch]

4. Is your avatar Nixon? Sure looks like him. nt

[no name no slogan]

6. Yes, it is

His health care plan from 1974 is a hell of a lot more liberal than those proposed by the three front-runners.

Pretty sad, huh?

[XemaSab]

8. Not only that, but he was the greatest environmental president we've had since TR

(and possibly EVER. :D )

[no name no slogan]

14. Right on. He founded the EPA.

He also had a solid civil rights record, enforcing the civil rights legislation from the 1960s. He also backed the Equal Rights Amendment to the constitution.

He also carried out LBJ's Great Society programs, and even proposed a welfare reform program that was quite similar to one enacted under Bill Clinton-- twenty years later.

Quite frankly, it's pretty damn sad to see that the "mainstream" candidates of today's Democratic Party are not even as liberal as a moderate Republican president from the 1970s.

[XemaSab]

31. True dat.

Hell, even ol' Ronnie would fit right in there with our guys today. :(

[Tennessee Gal]

10. Not good enough.

Nixon undermined our democracy almost as bad as Bush.

[no name no slogan]

15. But he was a hell of a lot more liberal than our frontrunners.

Which is a pretty pathetic statement about our party, IMHO.

[Tennessee Gal]

7. Yep, that is Nixon.

Never forget that face.

[stray cat]

9. Go Edwards!

[Inspired]

11. I'm sure he is losing sleep over it.

If you recall....Nader just endorsed Edwards. HA!

[flvegan]

12. Word.

:thumbsup:

[no name no slogan]

16. Thanks bro.

I thought you might appreciate it! :D

[damntexdem]

17. This entire thread is an example of how the rightwing tries to win:

whatever the intentions of the various posters, it's all a turn-off that keeps DUers from constructive discussion.

[brentspeak]

19. Exactly

[no name no slogan]

30. Not even close

It's an attempt, using sarcasm, to point out how incredible asinine certain posts can be, by just changing a couple of names around.

Don't believe me? Have a read:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3954967

[creeksneakers2]

35. Both posts are dumb

What is this supposed to prove?

[no name no slogan]

36. It's not supposed to "prove" anything

It just shows how ridiculous it is to accuse certain candidates of ruining other candidates' campaigns-- especially when the sabatuer's support can fit into a Mini.

[annie1]

20. everyone knows he is a millionaire, he's not trying to play anything off...

he's diff than DK by a lot, and fights his own fight. And hey, better to have 2 people speak out against the corrupt, right? :)

[brentspeak]

21. Do you enjoy flamebaiting?

[no name no slogan]

23. No, I do not. But I despise bullshit, unsubstantiated attacks more.

Like this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3954967

:popcorn:

[LSK]

22. sheer ignorance or sarcasm?

Which is it?

[no name no slogan]

26. A little from column A, a little from column B

See this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3954967

Kucinich had as much to do with Edwards not winning Iowa as fish do with bicycles.

[LSK]

28. so why add to the idiotic posts?

We are overflowing already.

:shrug:

[no name no slogan]

33. Just spreading the love

and fighting fire with fire

[hayu_lol]

37. No name...your posts/thread are so freerepublic...

You brought up Nader...lol...he gave us BushCo.

Tell us again exactly what bridge you live under so that we can avoid it in the future.

[no name no slogan]

41. Oh, please...

Go check my join date. And my post count. Then tell me I'm a freeper troll. I could even tell you the campaigns I've worked on and the convetions I've attended for this party, but I don't feel the need to explain myself to somebody on a web forum.

Oh, BTW, don't like it? Well, there is that ignore button next to each thread....

[flvegan]

44. Oh PUHLEEEEZE!

The shitswill here every day and you get wadded panties over this from nnns?

Shitting me you must be, Skywalker.

[Adelante]

38. So true nt

[OHdem10]

39. Had John Edwards not become a serious progressive the

party would still be the party of the Elites. At least he has
given it voice.

It is unfair to accuse him of stealing Kucinch message. it should
be the message of all Democrats.

It is difficult to accept but physical image holds such a high value
in this society. Kucinich has strikes against him for just being who
he is.

[no name no slogan]

45. Edwards is part of a long line

Going back to the campaigns I've been old enough to do something about:

1984 & 1988: Jesse Jackson, the progressive voice
1992: Jerry Brown, the progressive voice
1996: Nobody
2000: Bill Bradley, the progressive voice
2004: Dennis Kucinich and/or Howard Dean and/or Al Sharpton and/or Carol Mosely-Braun, the progressive voice
2008: (you get the picture)

This is nothing new. This is politicians looking for a way to get elected.

[HughMoran]

40. I'll never forgive Edwards, Clinton, Obama, Richardson, Kucinich, Gravel, Biden or Dodd

for giving us choices which in turn caused a lot of strife on DU.

[no name no slogan]

43. Eh, it's like every other year.

I haven't seen a candidate I've been really enthusiastic in a presidential race since..., well, ever. And that includes when the time I was a precinct captain and state convention delegate for Dukakis in 1988 (yeah, I know, it's a long story, and I learned my lesson, and I haven't backed a mushball mealy-mouthed centrist since then).

[HughMoran]

47. My dad talks to Dukakis from time to time

I almost ran him over on my bicycle - lol.

[no name no slogan]

49. Your dad, or Dukakis?

Dukakis is pretty short-- I think he's only 5'6" or so. I'm about 5'9", so you can compare for yourself
(Me and Dukakis, spring 1988-- nice pink tie, huh?)

[HughMoran]

51. I came around a corner in Brookline near where he lived

and he was there - it was all I could do not to run him down. And yes, I know he is short - I've also seen him around the NU campus.

[no name no slogan]

55. That's a great story!

I remember reading that he went into academia after he ran for president. He was a bit standoffish a lot of the time, but once I got to sit down and talk to him and he was a nice guy. A fairly decent governor, too, especially given what happened with him (one term, got his ass beat, came back, won two more terms).

[HughMoran]

57. My dad says he is a really nice guy

He ran into him near NU and spoke with him for a while. He actually talked politics a bit too!

[no name no slogan]

59. He's definitely a policy wonk's policy wonk

He has a solid grasp on policy. Very intelligent guy-- probably too intelligent to be president, sadly. In fact, IMHO he would have been a better president than Clinton, had he won in 1988.

BTW, you may be too young to remember this, but Clinton made Dukakis' nominating speech at the 1988 convention. The speech was excruciatingly long, and the butt of several jokes on the late-night talk shows. In fact, the speech got Clinton invited on the Tonight Show, and was effectively his introduction to the nation.

[HughMoran]

67. I heard about that speech

I had no idea it was Dukakis' nominating speech though - I just wasn't that into politics then, though I voted for Carter so I am definitely not a kid ;)

[MuseRider]

62. Well weren't you just the little cutie!

Young, sweet and impressionable. Ahhhh.

And now look at you! LOL, love the thread. :hi:

[no name no slogan]

63. Hey Muse!

Yeah, I got all old and jaded and bumpy and stuff. What's that saying, "youth is wasted on the young"? Too true, unfortunately!

Good to see you! :hug:

[MuseRider]

65. Tis true.

I got bumpy too, sucks doesn't it? Jaded, nah not me :sarcasm:.

Good to see you too! :hug:

[frogcycle]

53. so Kucinich had a patent on progressive?

what Gore did to Nader? Like be effective instead of ineffective?

[slipslidingaway]

66. Bill Moyers said something similar tonight in his interview

with Kucinich.

:)

"BILL MOYERS: I know. But John Edwards talks more like you-- John Edwards has said, quote, I absolutely believe to my soul that this corporate greed and corporate power has an iron-clad hold on our democracy. I thought, "He must have lifted that right out of Dennis Kucinich's speeches." You say that all the time. And yet you said go for Obama, not for Edwards.

DENNIS KUCINICH: You know, I thought Senator Obama offered an approach and has the kind of sincerity that deserved recommendation only on that second ballot. Because when he comes to New Hampshire, I'm sincerely trying to get more votes than him."

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/transcript4.html

[Radical Activist]

68. "sincerity"

Interesting choice of words there.

[slipslidingaway]

70. Yes and it is the second time he used that word when speaking

of why he recommended Obama instead of Edwards.

:think:

[Pachamama]

71. Huh????

:eyes:

:WTF:

[Turn CO Blue]

72. Copycats only allowed in the Lounge, right? consider a self-delete