If Edwards doesn't do well in Iowa, I'm supporting Hillary.

[PresidentObama]

First of all, I think John Edwards is going to win Iowa. Period.

And if he doesn't, I think he'll finish strong in second place.

Either way, if either of these scenarios plays out, I'm still supporting Senator Edwards and I'll continue to support him till he either concedes or wins the nomination!!

But things are close in Iowa. Really close.

They aren't as close in New Hampshire. The only way John Edwards can pick up the necessary momentum to continue to do well is in Iowa. If he doesn't, it's sadly all over for him.

Now I've been behind Edwards from the beginning. But I understand it's win or get close in Iowa or drop out/continue with little momentum to take New Hampshire or South Carolina.

With that said, I'm support John Edwards right now. And have since the very beginning of this race, when he announced his candidacy. I'm proud of the campaign he's ran, and the message and vision he's presented.

BUT....

If the unthinkable happens, and he's third place in Iowa...I'm supporting Hillary!!

Why?

Because my second choice, Obama, in the last few weeks has simply lost me. He just has.

He's spoke about hope and change this WHOLE election, and he waits to the last minute when the stakes are high to come out against Edwards for an outside groups advertisement. Claiming Edwards doesn't walk the walk, yet he does. How is taking lobbyist wives money any better than an outside group running advertisements for you?

His campaign crys foul about Clinton's attacks, yet he's engaged in the same bullshit for the past few weeks. His supporters say Hillary is using fear, what do you call saying if you push the same ole players forward (dig at Hillary and Edwards) with the same ole agendas and expecting a different result? Barack that's a good line, but that's using FEAR. You're saying that these candidates are like the status quo, no matter what their rhetoric is. You're saying they can't get change done, but you can.

With that said, if Edwards simply can't win this nomination...I'm supporting Hillary.

She's strong, prepared, organized, and most importantly...electable!!

Tonight I hope to see Edwards proclaiming victory.

But if not, my second choice has lost me. And Hillary has got herself a new supporter!

[rodeodance]

1. jolly

[skipos]

2. Couldn't agree with you less. Hillary is my last choice. By far. nt

[PresidentObama]

6. I hope I don't have to move camps. I hope Edwards wins Iowa, and I believe he will.

This thread was more or less to say Obama's lost my placing as the second choice.

[RufusTFirefly]

19. Ditto. n/t

[BringBigDogBack]

60. same

[gateley]

3. Well good luck to JE -- In all the polls here on DU, anyway, he seems to be

the fave, so you might be surprised tonight! Hang in there!

[PresidentObama]

4. I'm still firmly in the Edwards camp. Just proclaiming that Obama's lost me as second choice.

[gateley]

12. I realized that after I'd posted. I just felt bad for you because believe me, I know

what it's like to have to consider other candidates besides your true-blue favorites. Carry on! :headbang:

[PresidentObama]

13. I sure hope Biden does well tonight. If anything, he'd make a great President or even VP.

[gateley]

24. Thanks -- that's always so nice to hear!

:hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. I don't get it.

You are dropping Obama as your 2nd choice because he is doing what Clinton is doing, and switching to Clinton as your 2nd choice. So when Obama does it, it's bad; when Clinton does it, it's good?

[PresidentObama]

11. No. I'm saying his strategy in the past few weeks goes against his campaign message.

You know, the politics of hope?

It just seems hypocritical.

And I didn't say this strategy is good or bad. I personally don't like it, and I think going negative in the last minute isn't a good strategy.

I'm not completely happy with a lot of the things Hillary Clinton stands for.

But if I can't have my candidate as the nominee, we may as well have the best next thing.

Obama seems like all sizzle, but no steak.

[maximusveritas]

7. Sounds like you're letting politics cloud your judgment

Do you not think Hillary would be doing the same thing to Edwards that she did to Obama if she had to? That's how politics works.
To let that affect your vote indicates that you're letting your emotions get in the way of reason.
By the way, I do know how you feel though. Every time a rival goes after my candidate, I feel the same way initially. But eventually I come to the conclusion that it's just politics and I need to vote for the best candidate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. That's how politics works.

All politicians play "games" or "politics" as you call it but only one politian gets called out for playing these "games" and one politician never gets called out for playing "games" because his supporters think he is perfect...

[ronnykmarshall]

8. Thank you

and even though my second choice is Biden, I don't think he'll be in the race much longer .... I'll be happy to support Edwards, if Hillary drops.

But I don't think either of us will need to face that before Feb 5th. In fact I have to vote absentee (we are in the middle of moving) so I'm sure I'll be voting for her.

[jenmito]

14. You mean even though Hillary poll-tested their Streisand endorsement?

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

29. You don't understand parody do you?

And your stalking my posts are really fucking creepy.

[jenmito]

32. Of course I do, which is why I posted a sarcastic reply yesterday which you never replied to.

Then put me on ignore. :hi:

[killbotfactory]

9. Yep Obama is a first class jerk

It's not like these recent statements and controversies are completely overblown or deliberately misinterpreted for political reasons, or anything.

[BlueManDude]

10. Obama will do better in November than Hillary will. That's all I care about.

[PresidentObama]

18. I used to think that, and I even made a thread about Obama being better in the GE.

I'm not so sure about that now.

The past few weeks have shown what the candidates do when the stakes are high, in crunch time.

I've liked what I've seen from the Clinton and Edwards campaigns.

Obama? Not so much.

[dajoki]

74. Edwards has consistantly polled...

the best of any Dem candidate against every Repub in a hypothetical GE. Let's hope he gets the chance.

[Bullet1987]

93. Clinton and Edwards would NOT do better than Obama

in the GE. Your 2nd choice most of all would be the worse GE candidate out of the 3. Because Clinton will NOT get crossover votes from Independents or moderate Republicans AT ALL (and that's pivotal in the GE)! Obama is the only one that has the potential to win in a landslide because people simply like him. But hey, it's your decision. I don't think Clinton will win the nomination anyway so you'll probably be forced to Obama's side regardless...lol.

[2rth2pwr]

15. Switch to Hillary for a historic election. nt

[jenmito]

16. Yeah, because electing a Black man wouldn't be historic or anything.

:eyes:

[PresidentObama]

20. Who cares about black vs. woman. I'm not electing them to be the first _____ President.

[jenmito]

23. I'm just commenting on the poster's remark. n/t

[PresidentObama]

25. They didn't say it'd be historic because she's a woman. So your post makes no sense.

We don't need to turn this thread into a needless flame war.

[jenmito]

28. "Switch to Hillary for a historic election. nt" You're naive if you don't think it's because she's

female. I'm not voting for Obama because he's Black. I'm voting for him because he's by FAR the best candidate.

[PresidentObama]

31. I think the poster can speak for themself. You don't need to assume, and put words in their mouth.

It's going to be a historic election.

It already has been.

Whether we nominate the female, black, hispanic or southern white male.

[jenmito]

35. That's funny. It will NOT be a "historic election" if a southern white male is nominated.

Nice try.

[PresidentObama]

41. It's going to be a historic election NO matter who we nominate. WTF are you talking about?

No matter the nominee, it'll be historic.

[jenmito]

54. So EVERY election is historic in your opinion...right? n/t

[PresidentObama]

55. Here's why it's historic since you think it'd won't be historic without Obama.

Because neither the President or Vice President is running.

Because we're at war, and the economy is in the shitter.

And it's been the most covered, and earliest campaign (as far as when it began) in history.

And we've had some of the best candidates we've ever ran.

That's why it's historic.

And it'll be historic even with or without Obama OR Clinton.

[jenmito]

57. But you said electing a southern white male would be historic (as historic as if we elected a

minority.) You should've said this is an IMPORTANT election.

[salin]

59. depends on what criterion one is using as "historic"

you seem to be refering to the first black or first woman president.

I think the other poster is referring to the knocking out of power the republicans in such a way that history can shut the door on some of the worst abuses of power in our country's history. Or at least that is how I look at the coming election as "historic" - and it may be "historic" for numerous reasons.

Now as for DU GDP - I would say histrionic is a better description ;-)

[benny05]

17. Keep the Faith

The momentum is building for JRE. :bounce:

[PresidentObama]

21. I sure hope so. Iowa looks promising.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. If Hillary Falters I Am Supporting Edwards...

All politicians play "games" but only one politian gets called out for playing these "games" and one politician never gets called out for playing "games" because his supporters think he is perfect...

[avrdream]

98. Believe you me, Obama is going to get called out by the Repubs if he

gets the nomination. He has essentially been untouched in the primaries so far - and we all have our suspicions about why.

[Armstead]

26. You should amend that to "If Edwards doesn;t get the nomination..."

Iowa is one step in the process. It aint over 'til it's over.

[PresidentObama]

33. I'm sorry but without a strong showing in Iowa, Edwards simply can't pull it off.

I hope John wins Iowa, and I have a feeling he will.

But it's the truth, sadly.

[Cameron27]

27. I think Edwards is going to do well,

so I don't think you'll have to make the switch :-)

[PresidentObama]

34. I hope I don't. I hope it's close, and Edwards is able to continue.

[sandnsea]

36. Sorry he exposed Edwards' vulnerabilities

I didn't think people could get more irrational than they did against Kerry. Edwards says we can't have the same agenda with the same people and that's a fighter!!! Obama says it and it's using FEAR, booooo.

This place has gone nuts.

[PresidentObama]

40. It is using fear.

You're naive if you don't believe that Obama wasn't suggesting that if you nominate Edwards or Clinton, you'll get the status quo.

This is before he tried suggesting Edwards is all talk, but no walk. Unlike him, who takes lobbyist wives money and then claims he'll clean up Washington and take this people on to bring about change.

Politics of hope has been reduced to the same attacks he was bashing Hillary for.

[sandnsea]

45. Well then Edwards is using it too

He's saying the exact same thing.

Edwards takes Bunny Mellon's money and that's okay.

Edwards isn't going to outlaw corporations, he has to talk to them, but he pretends otherwise and makes you fear the results if you don't vote for him.

He and Hillary both use fear (and lies) that Obama is going to leave people without health care. Elizabeth got up and basically said Obama was going to let her die. What is that if not fear?

Good god. THINK.

[PresidentObama]

49. Obama simply has the worse healthcare plan of the three.....

I'm glad Hillary and Edwards are talking about their plans, and sticking to the issues and talking about how their healthcare plans differ from his.

That's better than going after Edwards for a 527 advertisement he had nothing to do with and distorting reality because you're competing for the same voters John is.

[sandnsea]

70. Except for mandates and tax credits

They're practically the same. Obama's has a public plan to buy into, just like the others. Obama's has an insurance watchdog group to guarantee coverage equivalent to the public plan, to everybody, and premiums that are not based on health. Did you even read the plan? Or did you just listen to what Edwards told you?

[FrenchieCat]

47. Mellon and Fortress money are soooo much more acceptable

from one who's come up with an 11th hour appeal against those who he has profited from...and certainly better than anything Obama could ever say about anything! :sarcasm:

One can make 1/2 a million dollars learning from Corporation on a part time basis, and justify it by saying he needed the "salary" cause 54 million in the bank is really simply not enough, but heavens know that if another calls him out on utilitizing interest groups for his benefit in a hypocritical manner, that particular one has got his Nerves! :eyes:

1/2 of the shit I read on these boards doesn't even make sense anymore! :crazy:

[ronnykmarshall]

48. It's pasted nuts months ago.

We're talking full blown

[sandnsea]

63. rotflmao

Do you remember the song? That was one of the first scary movies I ever saw and it's still one of my favorites. So funny you would post it.

[ronnykmarshall]

77. There was a THEME song??

Oh my god!

I gotta rent that sucker now.

[sandnsea]

82. You haven't seen it???

OMG, you have to. There was a little jingle in it, the kind girls sing to jump roping. I can't remember it anymore. I watched it when I was probably 7 or so, I loved suspense type movies like Psycho and the Birds. The Joan Crawford character was unlike any woman I knew in my little suburban life (although we lived next door to a gay man, yes we did). I was just fascinated with the whole thing, and the concept of a crazy woman, WOW!!!! lol.

[ronnykmarshall]

92. Not in years!

I know, bad, bad gay man!

I'm gonna order it right now!!

[krabigirl]

37. Yeah, I'll probably support her too, although I wish it could be Edwards or Biden.

[Cha]

38. Cool..hillary knifed Kerry

in the back so he couldn't stand in her fucking ambitious way to the white house but no worries..hillary is 180 degrees from John Edwards.

[PresidentObama]

42. That's your opinion.

The Clintons had nothing to do with the "loss" in 2004.

Nice try.

I dislike McAuliffe and think he sucked. And Carville is a complete asshole.

But that doesn't mean Hillary had anything to do with the "loss"

[sandnsea]

46. The joke

Hillary knifed him. No question.

McAuliffe is running Hillary's campaign. If you don't like him Carville, then what the hell makes you think you'd like anything the Clintons bring us.

[PresidentObama]

50. Sandnsea, you know I love Senator Kerry. But the Clintons had NOTHING to do with his "loss"

No matter how many conspiracy theories pop up here at DU about it.

[Cha]

52. Yeah, I can see you're delusioned.

I wasn't even talking about the 2004 selection. I was refering to hillary's jab at Kerry when he told that infamous "joke" and she came out with her snark comment right afterwards..but you go ahead and support the warmonger.

[PresidentObama]

53. And what was Obama's reaction?

[Cha]

66. You'll fit right in

with hillary's supporters..if you can't defend her you try and distract.

[PresidentObama]

68. No, I'm serious. You've throwing Hillary under the bus for this, what was Obama's response?

I can't quite remember, but I think it was just as bad.

[sandnsea]

71. You can't remember because he didn't get on teevee

and stick a knife in anybody's back.

[PresidentObama]

73. Find me his quote then. Don't just talk, FACTS are your friend.

[sandnsea]

83. Excuse me??

I'm supposed to find you a quote that I don't even think exists?? If you think Obama knifed Kerry, YOU go find the quote and prove it.

[PresidentObama]

84. Please don't say I'm wrong then.

If you can't provide evidence otherwise.

[Mass]

89. Can you prove what you are saying. This is the real question.

Because you are accusing Obama of having done something here.

[sandnsea]

97. You're the one making the accusation

I don't think he said anything about Kerry. How am I supposed to find something that doesn't exist.

If you want to support Hillary, support her because you want what the Clintons bring to American politics. Don't make up things against Obama to rationalize turning against him, which is really only because you're mad he might prove Edwards' entire premise of running, winning the white vote, wrong.

[Cha]

76. hillary threw herself

under the bus and thumbed her nose at some of her constituents in New York on the way down. She's my senator and I expected more outta her than being led around by the nose with the bushits holding the leash.

I don't have a candidate that I care that much about this time around but hillary doesn't deserve it.

[balantz]

39. I'm all for an Edwards win tonight!

But I have come to the same sad conclusion recently about Mr. Obama.

[PresidentObama]

43. Let's go Edwards!! :)

[Capn Sunshine]

44. Kerry 2008 supports Hillary

what a huge stretch.

[PresidentObama]

51. I support JOHN EDWARDS.

[Capn Sunshine]

56. so you say

very articulate Hillary endorsement. I believe in my candidate, I have no illusions of failure.

[PresidentObama]

61. So I say? I've supported John since when he announced.

I'm NOT endorsing Hillary.

I'm proclaiming my second choice.

Pretending your candidate has this election won is going to bite you in the ass when Edwards or Clinton wins Iowa.

[BringBigDogBack]

58. Wow.

[Colobo]

62. You are wrong on this one Kerry. Very wrong. Still, it's your choice.

Gobama.

[PresidentObama]

67. Best of luck to your candidate, but yes...it's my choice.

Again, best of luck. And try to enjoy tonight :)

It should be a good night!!

[Colobo]

69. I'm hoping your will reconsider. Obama is a great candidate and you know it.

[PresidentObama]

72. He is, and he'll make a great President if nominated.

The last straw was the bullshit he raised about this 527 advertisement.

After months of crying foul about Hillary and her campaign strategy....

[Colobo]

75. What 527? C'mon, come back to our camp.

[PresidentObama]

78. The pro-Edwards advertisement from Edwards FORMER campaign manager.

Obama claimed that John Edwards didn't walk the walk, just talked the talk, because this 527 advertisement was running a pro-Edwards advertisement.

I know they're competing for the same voters, but it was distorting reality and he hoped voters wouldn't know or research enough to know Edwards denounced 527's and this advertisement. And he his campaign legally can't have anything to do with the advertisement, nor did.

For a man whose whole campaign has been about the politics of hope, and has shared many of the same themes of fighting for the middle class and lifting people up, I was sincerely disappointed in Barack.

[Colobo]

79. How many 527's has Obama run? Zero. We should applaud that.

[PresidentObama]

81. Ummm, the candidates can't RUN 527 advertisements.

These are outside groups.

And according to an Obama supporter in another thread about this topic, a pro-Obama 527 was denounced by Obama earlier in the year.

Sooo....

Does he not walk the walk either? By his own standards?

Does Obama think outside groups he nor his campaign has responibility for means he doesn't walk the walk, and can't bring about change?

It's a stretch isn't it?

[AtomicKitten]

86. Obama has rejected all 527s on his behalf in the primary.

Can the other candidates say the same?

[PresidentObama]

87. Edwards has consistently denounced 527's.

[AtomicKitten]

88. while he turns a blind eye to their "help" in Iowa

[PresidentObama]

90. He can't stop ANY outside group from running advertisements.

Just like Obama or Clinton couldn't.

He's denounced the advertisement, and ALL 527's.

Obama isn't holier than thou.

[Colobo]

94. Our campaign is not being "helped" by 527s. That should tell you something, Kerry.

[PresidentObama]

100. According to an Obama supporter in one of the threads about this, you have in this election.

Supposedly there was a pro-Obama 527.

You didn't see Edwards attacking Obama saying he didn't walk the walk, did you?

No, because he doesn't distort reality to compete for the same voters.

[emilyg]

64. Thanks.

[PresidentObama]

65. I like the claws coming out because an JE supporter moves from Obama to Hillary as second choice

[Tom Rinaldo]

91. Edwards is far from my first choice, but I would never savage you over supporting him

All of us can produce good arguments in favor of the choices that we make. Hillary was not my initial first choice. I know what it is like to be forced to give up a political dream. By late Spring most of us will have been forced to accept a second, third or even lower choice from who ever we once hoped we would be backing as the Democratic nominee. The primary season stupidity part of DU is all the over the top claims that so and so is the "only real choice" along with the book end claims that a National Democrat with deep and strong, by any objective measure, nation wide support inside the Democratic Party is just "Bush lite". I suppose from a pure Marxist stand point every Democrat is at best "Capitalist Lite" but last time I checked this was the Democratic Underground.

[Little Star]

80. Hillary is my second choice too. I want the general &

I believe she could get it. Neither Edwards or her are going to lay down if they try to steal it again!!!!!

[Mass]

85. At least, your second choice is better than the first. A little bit of effort and you could choose

somebody acceptable. Look at Biden or Dodd if you cannot chose Obama.

[hayu_lol]

96. This thread has moved a bit off topic, a few attacks, a few innuendoes, and yet...

I don't think(think is a damn lousy word)that anyone will drop until after super tuesday. This election has a feeling of being somewhat different than most of them have been.

Pick your candidate, the one you've been rooting for, and hang on--this is going to be one wild ride.

[Auntie Bush]

95. Thank you for saying that and

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE vote Hillary. She'll get the job done as she alwaws has...except for health care. She learned/absorbed alot doing that and she know the in and outs better than anyone.

[ecstatic]

99. If he can't win Iowa, he's finished. He's been in those peoples' faces for months nt