Setting the record straight on Dean and Vermont civil unions

[Brian_Expat]

The spin about civil unions and Dean "going along with them" is filling up the forum, and I think, as someone who was there, it's time to set the record straight once and for all on this issue. This is a repost from another forum.

A bit of background about me -- in 2000 I didn't know who Howard Dean was, but I campaigned for him and learned about him in 2000 during his election after he signed the civil union bill. I know the situation on the ground and it wasn't a simple case of "he was forced." I spent every weekend for months commuting from Boston to Vermont to campaign and organize for Dean as the symbolic candidate representing civil unions.

Dean had many options in dealing with the bill other than signing it and campaigning for it:

Firstly, he had the option of not signing the CU bill until after the election, refusing to address the issue or even lying.

Secondly, he had the option of agreeing with Ruth Dweyer, his conservative opponent, and launching an impeachment of the Supreme Court justices who made the ruling and get it overturned immediately.

Thirdly, he could have pushed for an amendment to the Constitution (which would have taken some time), and then revoked the law after two years and run on that.

Fourth, he could have complained he was "forced" and pledged to overturn the bill after he got re-elected.

His choice to run with civil unions and make them the centrepiece of his campaign took tremendous guts.

For all the people who pooh-pooh him on this front, I have to ask if you were there and saw all the "TAKE BACK VERMONT" signs. Did you sit in on the town hall meetings where the Christian Coalition showed gay porn videos and said that this is what gays want to do to kids?

Were you there when Dean had to wear a bulletproof vest? Or when old ladies came up to him in the middle of the campaign and spat "you fucking queer-loving son of a bitch" at him?

Did you read the letters to the editor calling for violence against homosexuals? Did you listen to radio shows calling for the state logo to be changed to "two men kissing and cornholing each other," as one state legislator (and senior DEMOCRAT) said?

I was. I gained tremendous respect for the man in Vermont based on how he acted in this incredible situation, and that definitely influenced my present opinion of him today, no question about it. When I heard he was running for President, I wasn't sure at first, but ended up moving to his campaign after a few disappointments from Kerry.

Did Dean go out and initiate the civil unions debate? No -- but it was thrust upon him, he picked up with it, and navigated the state through an incredibly difficult time AND educated voters on the bill to the point where a majority by the end of the campaign supported the bill. He helped bring pro and anti people together and converted a lot of "antis" to "pros."

Howard Dean is a man to whom gay and lesbian families owe a great deal, as an articulate mainstream voice for tolerance and equality in what was one of the most divisive civil rights battles of the latest 20th century. Whether or not he's the nominee, he should NOT be tarred as someone who "went with a court decision."

That's an insult to him and to gay people everywhere, like insisting that John Kerry took the "easy route" by supporting non-discrimination legislation because he was from a "safe state."

Whatever else you might think of Dean, his record on standing up for gay people in civil unions is clear, and those civil unions made huge strides possible, including California's recently-signed DP registry and the gay marriage rulings in Canada. And he's the only presidential candidate to put on a bulletproof vest and brave death threats against himself and his family for gay people. That ain't chopped liver.

[jmaier]

1. Thanks for the background

Brian. It's good to have some perspective that isn't just what gets reported in the media. :thumbsup:



Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[slinkerwink]

2. thanks for this post!

[Cannikin]

3. Thank you for posting that...

I'm new to the game and I didnt know most of that. I hate to make my sexuality the deciding factor in this election, but from what I've read, if conservatives have there way, I could be de-valued as a person by people who presume to speak for God. So I have little choice. Fight or move north...

[Bombtrack]

4. he still did an about-face on the subject

it seemed to go from being a thorn in his side to something he "championed".

[Brian_Expat]

6. He made the right choice

And he undeniably is the only person in this race to not only risk his career, but his LIFE, for gay people. That alone makes him a hero in my eyes, and he does NOT deserve to be smeared by operators who couldn't care less about gay equality like Carville (who started the whole "civil unions were easy for Dean" canard).

I wish more Democrats had his courage. Lesser men like Bill Clinton, Paul Wellstone and Joe Lieberman had less courage than he when they had far less to lose than he.

[Bombtrack]

10. Yeah, Clark and Kerry don't deserve to be called heros but Dean does

they survived the Vietcong so Howard and others could ski and what not, and he survived a burlington nutjob who called in a death threat

[Brian_Expat]

13. Dean is a hero for gay equality -- the only one to risk his life for gays

But, of course, since he's not your candidate, you're not willing to concede that. It's a shame, because he will remain an important part of the Democratic Party regardless of who the nominee is.

[redqueen]

27. This is just... irksome.

I understand that this is a very big issue for you. But our survival as a species depends on not insisting to view things only from our perspective.

This isn't about Dean or gay issues, this is about recognizing when you're putting more importance on some issue because it affects you personally. That has to stop.

Half the reason the 'establishment' is so successful at getting us to scurry into whatever rathole they deem appropriate is that we're so predictable. "Hey, it's only those people that are affected, who cares?"

As long as we continue to see ourselves as somehow separate or detached from our fellow man we will continue to be manipulated.

[Brian_Expat]

32. How insulting!

you're putting more importance on some issue because it affects you personally

I am setting the record straight on people who insist Dean didn't demonstrate profound courage and moral conviction over civil unions.

And I am also profoundly tired of people "explaining" to me that my desire for equality for all families is somehow indicative of me "caring only about one issue." I am pro-choice (despite the fact that I'll never get pregnant), pro-AA (despite the fact that I'm a white male) and pro-national-health-care (despite having excellent health care coverage).

I am a politically complex progressive moderate who fights for the rights of all people, every day. To paint me as a single-issue person is just wrong (and rude).

"Hey, it's only those people that are affected, who cares?"

What Dean did in Vermont was demonstrate how these issues effect every Vermonter -- for the economy, stability of society, strength of families, etc.

[Bombtrack]

42. What SOME of us are saying is that the civil unions = good, Dean exaggerat

ing his championing of said legislation = not so good. Dean critics like us see a pattern in Dean of exaggeration/misrepresentation that is as often negative about his opponents as it is positive about him

and it can get annoying

[Brian_Expat]

48. You're basically calling me a liar

You ask me not to take offence to that? It's sorta hard. :(

[Bombtrack]

53. I don't know you enough to call you a liar, but since you basically called

Ford anti-gay for running against a more liberal opponent from san fransisco it doesn't bode well for you.

Ford is a fine politician, and Dean, I believe is a mean-spirited arrogant prick, I don't think we're going to reach agreement

[redqueen]

43. Don't mean to be insulting, just an observation.

You say you're just 'setting the record straight', but you're not. You're making a value judgment based on your priorities, and that's fine. But don't try to dance around and away from it. The cat's out of the bag. Here's what you said:

"And he undeniably is the only person in this race to not only risk his career, but his LIFE, for gay people. That alone makes him a hero in my eyes..."

Then, as if that wasn't enough, you go on to trash 'lesser men'.

"I wish more Democrats had his courage. Lesser men like Bill Clinton, Paul Wellstone and Joe Lieberman had less courage than he when they had far less to lose than he."

Now, it's an opinion as to whom the 'lesser man' is, Dean or Wellstone, and your entitled to yours to be sure. But please, just for the sake of argument, would you share with us all how exactly you came to believe that Wellstone was a 'lesser man' than Dean is?

[janx]

49. Our survival as a species depends, at least in this country,

on something called civil rights. That something affects every American citizen.

[redqueen]

52. LMAO!

You're lecturing me on civil rights?

Based on Dean's abrogation of those rights, by deciding they don't deserve marriage, only the 'separate but equal' kind?

That's rich!

[janx]

59. I'm not lecturing you about anything. I'm stating a fact.

.

[redqueen]

60. No, you're lecturing

And it's a fact that you don't seem to understand.

Civil rights = equality for all.

If gays are relegated to 'separate but equal' forms of marriage, what does that do for the cause of equality for all? IMO it makes it harder to realize true equality.

[janx]

63. I take it that incrementalism isn't part of your vocabulary.

And this isn't about marriage. There is something called separation of church and state in our country. Dean left to the churches what belongs to the churches. The churches aren't his realm; he was a governor, not a minister or a bishop.

[blm]

36. So the death threats Kerry got for pushing for gays to serve openly

in the military just didn't pass muster with you? That was LONG before supporting gays was even accepted politically.

Kerry LED the way making it easier for those who followed.

[sujan]

38. yea right

[Brian_Expat]

41. What does that have to do with Dean's activity on civil unions in VT? n/t

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brian_Expat]

18. I disagree with you about Vietnam

And I also don't think Vietnam war experience is related to civil unions in Vermont.

[sujan]

25. disagree what?

US did kill some 2 million vietnamese, no?

[Brian_Expat]

28. I disagree with the idea that Viet vets are "criminals"

But either way, that's not relevant to this topic.

[sujan]

35. They're not criminals?

Oh yes, they are. Depends on which side of the fence you stand.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sujan]

24. Your post is slanderous to all vietnamese who suffered

American aggression.

[Brian_Expat]

29. What does this have to do with civil unions? n/t

[Bombtrack]

31. There is not one shred of evidence Kerry and Clark injured, much less

killed civillians.

[Brian_Expat]

33. Again, what's this got to do with the topic? New thread, please. n/t

[sujan]

34. Certainly

America's best hour: vietnam war

[OrAnarch]

40. Every vietnam citizen was an innocent civilian..

in that conflict, whether they were farming or defending their homeland from unjust imperialism. Every American, inlcuding Kerry and Clark, who participated or aided that invasion is guilty to thir own extent for the attrocities committed there.

ON EDIT: This has NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread. Stop hijacking positive threads on candidates simply becuse you cannot bear seeing positive bits posted on anyone but the one you support. Sickening. Go enlist if you have that much free time and become your own hero.

[Bombtrack]

45. That's is a real unrealist and pro-communist position but we point taken

.

[OrAnarch]

51. Oh yes...sorry. Communism == evil!!!

Killers of communists == GOOD! John Kerry and Clark for Copresident 2004. They killed innocent communists who were defending their families, their children, their homes and lives.


Communists are people too. How's that for realist? Time to put these age old Right-wing talking points to their death. Time to reach out and teach people the truth and time to stop pandering to ignorance.


Maybe we will change...maybe not. Maybe this same argument will take place in 40 years, where the real unrealist ingorantly states, "Muslim's are people too". Political affiliations and religion do not make lives insignifcant, despite what Ann Coultler told you.

[Bombtrack]

55. no they're sane talking points

probably 1 percent of the population agree that vietnam vets are bad

[OrAnarch]

61. Well dont we have some teaching to do, eh?

As soon as we can convince people that communists are not lower on the food chain than cattle, that killing of communists and muslims doesn't make someone a hero and not a killer, that the Vietnam war was utter bullshit, and that dodging such a draft was a highly honorable and dignifiable position to take (as to stand up against such attrocities), THEN, for once, maybe we can start winning elections instead of pandering to ignorant right-wingers hoping theyll vote democratic, when they never will.


If we are to pick issues and candidates based on polls, we should be running a Condi Rice/Wolfowitz Ticket. If we are to run by teaching people the truth, then we must stop pandering to ignorance and speak up, even if we are only 1% of the population. That simply leaves a whole lot left to teach the truth to. :)


And now this thread and conversation should once and for all display to everyone why a Green Party was needed and has a justified existence. If democrats like this did not buy into the lies and talking points of republicans so much and become the obselete counter-movement to the destruction of liberalism, then there would be no need for a realigning of the left. Democrats have destroyed themselves by this thinking, which started many decades ago, but finally became fully apparent in 2000.

[Bombtrack]

5. and it's not like it was selfless or anything

"The reason he’s piling up all the big money from out of state boils down to two words: civil unions. Three years ago, Vermont became the first state in the nation to recognize a form of legal union for same-sex couples, and that puts Dean on the cutting edge of the issue du jour. Canada recently announced it would change its marriage laws to permit gays and lesbians to wed, Massachusetts is expected to go the same way later this summer, and the US Supreme Court just struck down the various state sodomy laws. Dean now says bringing civil unions to Vermont was ‘the most important event in my political life’. At the time, he was going round the state telling folks he was only doing it because the Vermont Supreme Court made him, and, instead of the usual showboating public ceremony, he signed the legislation behind closed doors. But out in Hollywood all Barbra Streisand and the other high rollers know is that, if gay marriage is your big priority rather than Iraq and national security and all the other peripheral junk, then Dean’s your man. In a way, he’s the first gay candidate, the first beneficiary of a prominent, organisationally effective, big-money gay bloc in the Democratic party. This year, gay is the new black.

"In fact, though it wasn't designed with him in mind, Dean could have been custom-built for this election’s highly compressed primary season. Gay marriage is the perfect issue for long-distance pre-primary fundraising, where he’s managed to do serious and possibly fatal damage to Senators Lieberman and Graham."

http://www.hermes-press.com/HDean/dean_republican.htm

[Brian_Expat]

9. Nice to quote an anti-gay and anti-semitic site

With "friends" like this guy, we don't need enemies. Some quotes:

     Howard Dean is aligned with the extreme right-wing Jewish organization the America-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which supports the policies of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his government’s ongoing occupation and colonization of Palestinian land seized in the 1967 war, repression of the Palestinian population, and refusal to negotiate with the Palestinian leadership.

. . . snip. . .

At the time, he was going round the state telling folks he was only doing it because the Vermont Supreme Court made him, and, instead of the usual showboating public ceremony, he signed the legislation behind closed doors. But out in Hollywood all Barbra Streisand and the other high rollers know is that, if gay marriage is your big priority rather than Iraq and national security and all the other peripheral junk, then Dean’s your man. In a way, he’s the first gay candidate, the first beneficiary of a prominent, organisationally effective, big-money gay bloc in the Democratic party. This year, gay is the new black.

Yes, he did it for the homosexual agenda and all our money, right? What an ass. This reads like some Freeper rant, down to the Barbra Streisand/Hollywood Jew references, and anti-gay arguments that "gay marriage" is all gay people care about at the expense of national security. Incidentally, Barbra Streisand is a big WESLEY CLARK supporter, one of his earliest, but don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-gay Jew-baiting screed, right?

"Gay is the new black?" I rest my case.

He's also a liar. I was there in the campaign, unlike the guy who wrote that "article," and Dean never stated the "Supreme Court forced me." He donned his bulletproof vest and went out to argue for equality.

Kerry would do well to disassociate himself from people who Jew-bait and gay-bait.

[Bombtrack]

12. those are snippets from mainstream articles.

And I only posted parts I thought of Merrit, even if one sentance is out there.

[Brian_Expat]

15. Snippets of anti-semitic screeds are not "mainstream"

Except in Freeperville.

Most of what he said was wrong (i.e. that being for gay marriage attracted Streisand's support and that of Hollywood -- Streisand supports Clark and much of the rest of Hollywood are for Kucinich.)

What he said about the Vermont civil union race was an outright lie.

What he said about Dean's "Jewish" ties was antisemitic.

His claims that "gays are hijacking the Democratic party" are homophobic and something I know John Kerry would not stand for.

He should be ashamed of himself, and if you're serious about gay issues and civil unions, you should write the guy and tell him your campaign doesn't need him or his hatred.

[Bombtrack]

37. WHAT I POSTED was

what you posted wasn't. I skimmed through it earlier and thought it made a good point about Dean getting/monopolizing almost(to his political credit) the special interest gay money in the primary, which he has.

I didn't really read the whole thing carefully because I just saw it yesterday and didn't finish it.

I hate Dean, I read quickly something I thought compiled his negatives well, but obviously I didn't read it carefully enough, becuase I don't defend the anti-israel chic stuff like others here do.

I denounced the fringe stuff, and I pointed out that what I posted was taken, I believe from various respectable newssources at the bottom of the page

[Brian_Expat]

47. Er. . .

special interest gay money

The only groups that could be described as "special interests" (what a stupid term BTW) are HRC and NGLTF -- and neither of them gave any money to Dean. Most of the fundraising for Dean in the GLBT community was grassroots.

He got a lot more value in grassroots networking and campaigning and spreading the word.

[janx]

56. "special interest gay money"

sounds like a tip-off to me...

[tishaLA]

58. Streisand has given money to many Dem. presidental candidates

including Sharpton, Edwards, etc. Her support of Clark, to my knowledge, if no greater than her support of Sharpton.

[Bombtrack]

17. On further review, the author is certainly too fringe for my tastes

You're right on that account. I'll admit it when Dean-supporters call me on something acurate.

[janx]

64. Glad to hear it, Bombtrack. That site made my eyes bleed.

And you are all right. :thumbsup:

[corporatewhore]

62. This is off topic but....

aipac is anti semitic (palestinians are part of the semitic tribe too except most people forget that and tend to think they are dirt) any who if you go it says that he rejects The liberal wing of America’s Jewish community Americans for Peace Now (APN), which supports negotiations with the Palestinians based upon the principle of land for peace, that is, Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories in exchange for security guarantees.I can see how you would think it is anti gay (on thin ice i agree) but i have accused dems of just pandering to me (a bisexual latina) because they were trying to get my vote

[blm]

7. But you insist on misrepresenting Kerry on gay advocacy issues.

You claimed he supported DADT yet we know he TESTIFIED before Congress to allow gays to serve openly in the military. Why would you misrepresent him that way? Especially since Kerry received many death threats for his advocacy at the time.

When did Kerry ever disappoint on gay issues as you imply? Kerry started advocating for gays as SOON as he took office in 1985 sponsoring an antidiscrimination bill for gays on housing and employment, LONG before others took up their cause.

[Brian_Expat]

11. This isn't about John Kerry

It's about civil unions -- something Kerry has had little influence over, it being a state issue and all.

[SahaleArm]

16. As per yesterday's thread civil unions are not just a state issue

DOMA and possibly other federal restrictions.

[Brian_Expat]

20. Civil unions are a state issue in terms of certification

And a federal issue in terms of federal benefits.

Since Vermont was the first state in the union to offer CUs, Dean's focus had to be on getting the law passed and safeguarded. The fight in the federal government cannot follow until at least one state offers civil unions to all its residents.

[blm]

19. You use Kerry to compare and have done so repeatedly

and you care not when you misrepresent his longtime efforts for gay issues. You purposely imply that Dean has done more when he hasn't stuck his neck out HALF as mush as Kerry has over the years.

You diminish the efforts of those lawmakers who were on the forefront of those battles LONG before Dean came into the picture.

[Brian_Expat]

23. I was defending Kerry in my original message

The criticism directed at Dean -- "Oh, it was easy for him" is the same used against Kerry. I condemned that reasoning in both cases.

I am sorry you cannot see beyond your immediate candidate to find common ground on this important issue.

[blm]

30. You made a point

to say you suffered disappointments with Kerry and in another thread you said Kerry REJECTED the gay community in his campaign. Don't play innocent. Kerry FAR outstrips Dean on gay advocacy and only those new to gay advocacy issues would believe anything different.

[Brian_Expat]

39. Uh. . .

in another thread you said Kerry REJECTED the gay community in his campaign

I said no such thing. Calm down.

I said that Kerry turned down the opportunity to have his own "Kerry For America" style campaign, built on the gay political grassroots, and that Dean took them up on the offer. And that I believed that his rejection of this opportunity, combined with his loss of support in Silicon Valley, will probably cost him the nomination.

Kerry FAR outstrips Dean on gay advocacy

That's also not the issue in contention -- the issue is Dean's handling of civil unions -- but I happen to disagree with this assessment as well.

Kerry is fine on civil unions and other gay issues, as most Democrats these days are.

only those new to gay advocacy issues would believe anything different

Hmmmm. . . well, I am in my late 20s. But I would suggest you'll get more flies with honey than with vinegar. Gay people, like everyone else, look towards the future and evaluate the present. In a few more years, Dean's support of civil unions will also be less valuable to him because someone else will stand up for what's right.

[janx]

8. It's great you devoted a thread to this, Brian.

Especially in view of the negative comments about Dean on this board recently.

This really deserves a thread of its own. Thanks.

[tsipple]

21. AND Dean Did It So the Law Stuck

Vermont now (sadly) has a Republican governor, and the civil unions law is secure. The biggest impact, frankly, was that Vermont tourism got a bit of a boost, and that helps everyone.

In both Hawaii and Alaska, the lawmakers conspired to amend their state constitutions instead of expanding civil liberties. That's important background, too.

[Brian_Expat]

26. The most important thing Dean did was educate the population

He brought the population along with him to a position of understanding. He readily admits he had to evolve himself -- which encourages me. It means his moral compass is working well and he can take tough circumstances and run with it.

He also helped heal the state and move a majority towards support of the law. That's no small feat.

I mean, think about the original contention that this was just a "court thing." Had this been forced on the population and governor by the courts, it would be in danger today. It's not because Dean took the civil unions bill and campaigned on it, humanized gays, and rebuked the hateful right wing to ride to victory in the governor's race.

People talk about "electability" -- and that's the stuff electability is made of.

[janx]

44. Brian, how do things look for Dean on that side of the pond?

Do people there know much about him? (I'm assuming you're in UK.)

[Brian_Expat]

50. There's a Dean For America chapter here

I haven't attended a meetup yet, but plan to. Here's the web site:

http://www.deanforamerica.org.uk/

Brits following the election are impressed with Dean and Clark alike.

[ozone_man]

54. Don't be sad.

Jim Douglas is a moderate. Remember that some of our Republicans (Jim Jeffords, e.g.) turn out to be Democrats. ;-)

Next year, the rumor has it that a progressive turned Democrat will be running/winning.

[askew]

46. Thank you!

Thanks for the first hand account of the civil unions fight in VT. It's nice to see some positive topics around here for a change. Dean really does need to be commended for signing this law. It was a brave political act and another reason that I am proud to be campaigning for him.

[ozone_man]

57. Excellent post Brian!

Tough to keep folks like Bombtrack on track (he always gets distracted onto side issues). :-)

A very good example of how Dean gets behind an important issue like civil unions and sees it through to the end, at great peril to himself. I guess, in a way, his position on the Iraq war is like that. He sticks to his guns, when people like Kerry waiver with public opinion.

[tsipple]

65. Yes, But Let's Elaborate On That...

He sticks to his guns...

But he also respects facts and evidence. I like that.