The Obama campaign has 456,904 donors.

[calteacherguy]

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

Edit: 456,915 ;-)

Anybody know how many Hillary has?

[1corona4u]

1. What kind of donors?

[calteacherguy]

4. Americans. nt

[1corona4u]

5. Well, I know that..

I meant, PACS, individuals, special interest, lobbyist, etc. Found an interesting article about Mr. Obama tonight...soon as I have it confirmed as fact, maybe I'll post it.....

[wyldwolf]

9. he counts individual t-shirt and bumpersticker sales as a "donation." Pads the number a bit

[ClarkUSA]

15. Every campaign does... that's FEC rules.

:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

19. no they don't

:eyes:

[ClarkUSA]

22. Funny, the "Citizen's Guide" at the FEC website proves me right... here's the link and quote:

Fundraising Tickets and Items

Yet another way of making a contribution is to purchase a fundraising item or a ticket to a fundraiser. The full purchase price counts as a contribution. If you pay $100 for a ticket to a fundraising event like a dinner, you have made a $100 contribution (even though your meal may have cost the committee $30). Or, if you pay $15 for a T-shirt sold by a campaign, your contribution amounts to $15 (even though the T-shirt may have cost the committee $5).

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml

You're making a false Hillaryworld argument which was debunked long ago. Of course, it hasn't stopped you and other Clintonian partisans
from trying to push this strawman argument again and again. It seems some are incapable of telling the truth about Obama. Good thing I
and others will always be around to correct the chronic falsehoods about Obama. :smoke:

[wyldwolf]

25. nope, dude.

The fact that this is legal to do doesn't mean every campaign does it. Campaigns don't have to report individual donations under $101. Most don't.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0707/Obama_the_Tshirt.html

Just like Deanville before, Obamanation is composed of rookies who only think they're smart. :smile:

[ClarkUSA]

26. Yup, it's the law.

Just because the Clinton campaign outsources doesn't change this fact. Your assertion that "campaigns don't have to report individual donations
under $101" is false (see the FEC "Citizen's Guide" link I provided above).

Oh, and the Obama campaign has raised more primary money than politics-as-usual "Lobbyists are people, too" Hillaryworld. Speaking of rookies,
how many elections have you lost now, JD? Tell us again? :-)

[wyldwolf]

28. SL, Show me on your link where it is required by law to REPORT each donation less than $101.

It isn't. :)

And most don't report t-shirt, button, and ticket sales as "donors."

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

31. no, I just know campaign finance law and you don't

1. Campaigns are not required by FEC law to report donations of less than $101. Most don't because of the immense record keeping it would require.

2. Obama does to make his donor list look more impressive.

[ClarkUSA]

36. You have yet to prove what you say while I have... give a link and a quote or you're just full of BS

Again.

Obama is following FEC rules... and as for impressive, let's hear it for his having more donors than ALL the other candidates combined, Republican
or Democrat. Must make Hillary green with jealousy that she has to rely on lobbyists in order to compete with Obama's dedicated grassroots
supporters, eh? :-)

[wyldwolf]

39. sure

Financial reports contain all receipts and disbursements committees are required to disclose under the Federal Election Campaign Act. This includes contributions from individual people if the amount received from an individual totals more than $200 during a year...

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/info.html

Contributions must be listed separately on FEC disclosure reports once the total received from any one person exceeds $200 in an election cycle.

http://www.fec.gov/press/mapHelp.shtml

So if someone buys a t-shirt for $15. the Obama campaign is not required by law to report that donation. Only if the t-shirt is $201. does the campaign have to take the purchaser's information and report him/her as a donor.

Obama is following FEC rules

No one said he wasn't. The point I and others have made is Obama is doing something other campaigns are not required to do to make his donor list look bigger. The other campaigns, as is the norm, have not been taking name/address/job info for every little piece of merchandise.

[ClarkUSA]

You still have not provided any links or quotes proving your statement.

Not surprisingly, you also left out the entire quote:

Financial reports contain all receipts and disbursements committees are required to disclose under the Federal Election Campaign Act. This
includes contributions from individual people if the amount received from an individual totals more than $200 during a year; contributions
from party committees, PACs, and candidates regardless of amount; loans received by committees and other kinds of receipts.

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/info.html

You are also deliberately ignoring the link AND quote I provided from the FEC "Citizen's Guide":

Fundraising Tickets and Items

Yet another way of making a contribution is to purchase a fundraising item or a ticket to a fundraiser. The full purchase price counts as a
contribution. If you pay $100 for a ticket to a fundraising event like a dinner, you have made a $100 contribution (even though your meal
may have cost the committee $30). Or, if you pay $15 for a T-shirt sold by a campaign, your contribution amounts to $15 (even though
the T-shirt may have cost the committee $5).

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml

[wyldwolf]

49. ok. I'll play. What statement do you believe my FEC links didn't prove?

Not surprisingly, you also left out the entire quote

No I didn't. Use your brain. By your own admission, based on the link you first provided, various items count as campaing contributions. The FEC law states individual contributions DO NOT HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED unless they are more than $200. This figure covers any contribution, whether if be monetary or in-kind.

You are also deliberately ignoring the link AND quote I provided from the FEC "Citizen's Guide":

I addressed that already. While those types of things are legal contributions, they do not have to be reported individually unless they total more that $200. If you buy a $15. t-shirt from Obama, he DOES NOT HAVE TO REPORT YOU as an individual donor. If you buy $201. worth of t-shirts, he does.

Because he chooses to report each dime made through merchandise sales individually, he makes it appear he has that many more donors than other campaigns.

Nothing could be easier to understand. No matter how much you want the FEC law to be different to fit your preconceived agenda, it simply isn't.

[ClarkUSA]

60. I won't play your reindeer games. Anyone can read this subthread and decide for themselves.

Nowhere does FEC law state that individual contributions DO NOT HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED. You have given me NO LINK OR QUOTE that proves your
assertion. People can decide for themselves. Your repeated insistent statements does not a FEC quote or link make.

[wyldwolf]

62. sure, that is correct. We'll let people decide for themselves...

...but if you ever work a campaign (don't claim you have) I hope they don't put you on the finance committee.

My claim, that Clarkusa has disputed, is that Obama has listed donors who've donated less than $201. individually to make his total donor list look to be that much higher than that of other candidates. Nothing illegal there, but it is a fact he's done this.

FEC law, as I proved via my links, clearly shows campaigns are not obligated to list individual donors who have contributed less that $201. So most campaigns do not because of the sheer amount of record keeping such would entail.

For some reason, Clarkusa disputes this.

Nowhere does FEC law state that individual contributions DO NOT HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED.

My link plainly shows individual donations of less than $201. do not have to be disclosed.

[ClarkUSA]

43. You're asking me to prove a negative. The link and quote I provided speak for themselves.

Prove that most don't do it. Any campaign with a store on their website HAS to, according to FEC rules. And nothing you've said
challenges the fact that Obama has more grassroots contributors than all other candidates combined - Republican and Democrat.

That's the point. :-)

[wyldwolf]

53. yes, the link you provided shows it's legal to report contributions less that $200.

:shrug:

It doesn't show it is mandatory per FEC rules, which is why most campaigns won't add people who buy a cheap shirt to the donor list. It's OK to do that. Obama does. And it pads his donor list as compared to other campaigns.

:)

[1corona4u]

29. Well, you seem to have all the answers, how about you explain this to me;

saw something on the board...somewhere, that gave me a question about Obama...and Bk...anyway, I found this long, but interesting Harper's article.(Nov. 2006) There is one part that I find curious. It sounds curious to me, that Obama didn't vote for the BK bill, but voted against capping consumer interest rates. See what your take on it is...doesn't sound like he had the interest of the consumer in mind, if you ask me.....

********
"It’s not always clear what Obama’s financial backers want, but it seems safe to conclude that his campaign contributors are not interested merely in clean government and political reform. And although Obama is by no means a mouthpiece for his funders, it appears that he’s not entirely indifferent to their desires either.

Consider the case of Illinois-based Exelon Corporation, the nation’s leading nuclear-power-plant operator. The firm is Obama’s fourth largest patron, having donated a total of $74,350 to his campaigns. During debate on the 2005 energy bill, Obama helped to vote down an amendment that would have killed vast loan guarantees for power-plant operators to develop new energy projects. The loan guarantees were called “one of the worst provisions in this massive piece of legislation” by Taxpayers for Common Sense and Citizens Against Government Waste; the public will not only pay millions of dollars in loan costs but will risk losing billions of dollars if the companies default.

In one of his earliest votes, Obama joined a bloc of mostly conservative and moderate Senate Democrats who helped pass a G.O.P.-driven class-action “reform” bill. The bill had been long sought by a coalition of business groups and was lobbied for aggressively by financial firms, which constitute Obama’s second biggest single bloc of donors.

Although The Bond Market Association didn’t lobby directly on the legislation, Williams took note of Obama’s vote. “He’s a Democrat, and some people thought he’d do whatever the trial lawyers wanted, but he didn’t do that,” he said. “That’s a testament to his character.” Obama has voted on one bill that was of keen interest to Williams’s members: last year’s hotly contested bankruptcy bill, which made filing for bankruptcy more difficult and gives creditors more recourse to recover debts. Obama voted against the bill, but Williams was pleased that he did side with The Bond Market Association position on a number of provisions. Most were minor technical matters, but he also opposed an important amendment, which was defeated, that would have capped credit-card interest rates at 30 percent. “He studied the issue,” Williams said. “Some assumed he would just go along with consumer advocates, but he voted with us on several points. He understood the issue. He wasn’t closed-minded. A lot of people found that very refreshing.”


http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/11/0081275




Hmm....wasn't Obama for the little guy?

[ClarkUSA]

34. Your question is not about Obama's presidential campaign contributions per say...

If you want to discuss the minutiae of senatorial PAC contributions, I'm sure we can compare the social relevance of Obama's senatorial
PAC donors with Biden's at another time.

If you want to see what Obama did for the "little guy" while he was an Illinois Legislature, go here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3870386&mesg_id=3870386

By the way, Biden is doing very well in Iowa. Do you think he'll make it to fourth place? I do.

[Capn Sunshine]

45. riiiiiiiiiiiight

:rofl:

[ClarkUSA]

48. Hillaryworld can't stand the fact that Obama has outraised them in total primary contributions.

Bottom line: Obama has outraised Hillary in total primary funds and number of total donors. Those are pesky facts that Clintonians can't successfuly disparage
no matter how hard they try. :toast:

[wyldwolf]

55. ok, you show me a link that says as much. Further..

..when news broke earlier in the year that Obama was doing this, why was it a surprise to people. Simply, most campaigns DO NOT list individual donations of less than $200. You know this if you have the campaign experience you've claimed you have. So why are you pretending you don't?

[ClarkUSA]

65. Prove to us that the Clinton campaign does not disclose donations of under $200.

Considering about 40% of her donations are under that amount, I seriously doubt you're insistence she doesn't list them.

[wyldwolf]

69. We're not talking about donation, we're talking about disclosed donors!

OF COURSE she has do disclose how much her donations were that came in under $200. She does not, nor is there any evidence to suggest, she has disclosed each individual DONOR who donated less than $200.

Just for shits and grins, go here:

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/

Enter in any zip code, and find a donation of less than $201. for Hillary. I'll make it easy for you. Enter my zip (30075) code and see if you can find my donation of $100.

[sniffa]

17. yeah, Lil Dog doesn't do that

[wyldwolf]

33. that's correct.

[sniffa]

41. doubt it

[wyldwolf]

42. link to show she does?

[sniffa]

44. that would be your department

unless she didn't post it on her website for people to copy and paste around the internets.

[wyldwolf]

52. why? you made the assertion. Link or slink.

[sniffa]

54. yeah, my assertion was that, "i doubt it"

go ahead, prove me wrong that i doubt it.

[wyldwolf]

58. actually, you flipped flopped on it.

[sniffa]

59. ok

bye

[Bitwit1234]

7. Dummies

[ClarkUSA]

20. As of Q3, 94% of all Obama contributions were from small donors (i.e., under $250)

From Obama campaign:

Obama Announces Show of Grassroots Strength through Small Donor Donations and Activism

CHICAGO – The Obama campaign today announced that through 108,000 new donors in the third quarter, they raised $20 million for the
primary and have approximately $32 million in funds available to spend in the primary with a total of over $36 million cash on hand.

“The strength of our historic small donor base is in activism, not just contributions,” said campaign manager David Plouffe. “The vast majority
of these supporters have not yet achieved their full giving potential and will ensure our ability to continue to raise the resources needed to win
the nomination. Many of these donors will also provide organizational strength by going door-to-door, making phone calls and actively helping
Barack Obama become the next president of the United States.”

Fundraising totals:

* 365,000 individual donors, year-to-date
* 108,000 new donors in the third quarter



In the third quarter, from 108,000 donors who gave a total of 182,523 donations:

* 94% are $250 and under
* 89.5% are $100 and under
* 51% are $25 and under



Over the course of the entire year, out of 550,000 donations from 365,000 donors

* 92.5% of donations are $250 or less
* 87% of donations are $100 or less
* 45% of donations are $25 or less

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1007/Clinton_Obama_raise_and_burn.html

2007 FEC Trivia Fact: As of Q3, Obama had more small-donors than all other candidates - Republican and Democrat - combined while Hillary
received more lobbyist monies than all other candidates combined - Republican or Democrat.

[FlyingSquirrel]

32. Um, that is just wildly off base.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/donordemCID.asp?format=Print&id=N00009638&cycle=2008

$2,848,192 from $250-499 range (11,034 donors)
$4,188,149 from $500-999 range (7,846 donors)
$13,261,384 from $1000-2300 range (10,674 donors)
$32,866,550 from $2300-4599 range (12,146 donors)
$7,665,622 from $4600+ range (1,509 donors)

[ClarkUSA]

63. No, opensecrets.com has an incomplete total... Obama has raised more than that as of Q3

See: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/finance/

[frogcycle]

2. anybody care?

I wrote my name in the snow today. That impress you?

[calteacherguy]

3. No, that does not impress me at all. Nearly 1/2 million donors does. nt

[MNDemNY]

47. That and a cup-joe will get you 3rd place in Iowa.

[1corona4u]

6. Frog, been to the Oasis lately?

I'm heading over there is a few...

[Lucinda]

12. Maybe...what did ya write it with?

[frogcycle]

23. the usual method!

:rofl:


Hadn't done that in years. Used to go hiking in the smokies as a teenager; in the snowy seasons, well, when ya gotta go... why just make a dot when you can do graffiti with 'vanishing ink."

[Lucinda]

66. LOL

Couldn't resist asking. :D

Glad you got a chance to hike in "my" mountains. We live close enough to the national park that we get bears on our doorstep from time to time. I grew up in California, but I love it here.

[frogcycle]

68. There a lot of us who call them "my" mountains!

I grew up in E. Tn. I see you're in G'burg - was just down there for a family reunion in August.

[Lucinda]

70. LOL. I grew up in California, and wouldn't trade the Smokys for anything.

I miss good grocery stores and the ocean, and hate the traffic here, but othe than that, this place is amazing.

Hope you had a great reunion. The area changes constantly, I hope you still recognized it. :)

[calteacherguy]

8. Make that 458,035. nt

[ClarkUSA]

24. 458,189 now...

:toast:

[MethuenProgressive]

10. "donations" not donors. Obama counts every button purchase as a seperate "donor"

He needs more experience with math.
:rofl:

[jenmito]

13. Uh, no. Donors. The donations #, 736,492 is underneath the donor #,458,071.

:rofl:

[calteacherguy]

14. You are incorrect.

It's donors...the number of donations is underneath.

[ClarkUSA]

21. Every campaign is required to count store purchases as donations in kind under FEC rules...

Fundraising Tickets and Items

Yet another way of making a contribution is to purchase a fundraising item or a ticket to a fundraiser. The full purchase price counts as a contribution. If you pay $100 for a ticket to a fundraising event like a dinner, you have made a $100 contribution (even though your meal may have cost the committee $30). Or, if you pay $15 for a T-shirt sold by a campaign, your contribution amounts to $15 (even though the T-shirt may have cost the committee $5).

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml

You're making a false Hillaryworld argument which was debunked long ago. It doesn't stop you and others on this thread from trying to push this
strawman argument again and again though. But don't worry, I and others will always be around to correct you. :-)

And it's you who needs more experience with math, as there is a separate number for donors vis-à-vis donations on the Obama homepage.

[wyldwolf]

37. only if they're over $101.

Unless Obama's buttons and shirts cost $101., he is not required to report them.

[ClarkUSA]

38. You have yet to prove what you say while I have... give a link and a quote or you're just full of BS

As usual.

Obama is following FEC rules... and as for impressive, let's hear it for his having more donors than ALL the other candidates combined, Republican
or Democrat. Must make Hillary green with jealousy that she has to rely on lobbyists in order to compete with Obama's dedicated grassroots
supporters, eh? :-)

[wyldwolf]

40. sure... as usual I will prove what I say with links

My only mistake was mistyping the amount - $101. instead of $201.

Financial reports contain all receipts and disbursements committees are required to disclose under the Federal Election Campaign Act. This includes contributions from individual people if the amount received from an individual totals more than $200 during a year...

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/info.html

Contributions must be listed separately on FEC disclosure reports once the total received from any one person exceeds $200 in an election cycle.

http://www.fec.gov/press/mapHelp.shtml

So if someone buys a t-shirt for $15. the Obama campaign is not required by law to report that donation. Only if the t-shirt is $201. does the campaign have to take the purchaser's information and report him/her as a donor.

Obama is following FEC rules

No one said he wasn't. The point I and others have made is Obama is doing something other campaigns are not required to do to make his donor list look bigger. The other campaigns, as is the norm, have not been taking name/address/job info for every little piece of merchandise.


:)

[ClarkUSA]

46. lol! Your links do not prove your assertion at all... but you knew that.

You conveniently left out the entire quote:

Financial reports contain all receipts and disbursements committees are required to disclose under the Federal Election Campaign Act. This
includes contributions from individual people if the amount received from an individual totals more than $200 during a year; contributions
from party committees, PACs, and candidates regardless of amount; loans received by committees and other kinds of receipts.

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/info.html

The link AND quote I provided from the FEC "Citizen's Guide" is complete and non-ambiguous:

Fundraising Tickets and Items

Yet another way of making a contribution is to purchase a fundraising item or a ticket to a fundraiser. The full purchase price counts as a
contribution. If you pay $100 for a ticket to a fundraising event like a dinner, you have made a $100 contribution (even though your meal
may have cost the committee $30). Or, if you pay $15 for a T-shirt sold by a campaign, your contribution amounts to $15 (even though
the T-shirt may have cost the committee $5).

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml

Bottom line: Obama has outraised Hillary in primary funds and number of total donors. You can parse it all you want but those are facts
that Hillaryworld can't quite manage to escape or disparage e no matter how hard they try. Gobama!

[wyldwolf]

50. of course they do

Not surprisingly, you also left out the entire quote

No I didn't. Use your brain. By your own admission, based on the link you first provided, various items count as campaing contributions. The FEC law states individual contributions DO NOT HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED unless they are more than $200. This figure covers any contribution, whether if be monetary or in-kind.

You are also deliberately ignoring the link AND quote I provided from the FEC "Citizen's Guide":

I addressed that already. While those types of things are legal contributions, they do not have to be reported individually unless they total more that $200. If you buy a $15. t-shirt from Obama, he DOES NOT HAVE TO REPORT YOU as an individual donor. If you buy $201. worth of t-shirts, he does.

Because he chooses to report each dime made through merchandise sales individually, he makes it appear he has that many more donors than other campaigns.

Nothing could be easier to understand. No matter how much you want the FEC law to be different to fit your preconceived agenda, it simply isn't.

[ClarkUSA]

56. Why do you keep misrepresenting the facts? I guess it looks good in the subject line?

I'll let people decide for themselves since you seem congenitally incapable of admitting the facts.

[wyldwolf]

61. sure, I'm all for letting people decide for themselves

My claim, that Clarkusa has disputed, is that Obama has listed donors who've donated less than $201. individually to make his total donor list look to be that much higher than that of other candidates. Nothing illegal there, but it is a fact he's done this.

FEC law, as I proved via my links, clearly shows campaigns are not obligated to list individual donors who have contributed less that $201. So most campaigns do not because of the sheer amount of record keeping such would entail.

For some reason, Clarkusa disputes this.

[William769]

11. As I have said before when he loses, he can take that money to the bank for more Real estate deals.

:)

[sniffa]

18. what will Lil Dog do with her money?

when she loses, i hope she doesn't try real estate again - Whitewater didn't work out great.

[Yuugal]

51. options worked out well a few yrs back :)

[ElizabethDC]

16. I don't know how many donors she has, but

I do know that I'm proud to be one of them! :hi:

[FlyingSquirrel]

27. If you want real numbers on this.........

Go to

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/

Hillary Clinton: 32,665 contributors, (16,018 Female, 16,647 Male) $58.4 million total;
Barack Obama: 41,952 contributors, (18,882 Female, 23,070 Male), $53.1 million total;
John Edwards: 15,175 contributors, (5,465 Female, 9,710 Male), $19.3 million total.

[calteacherguy]

35. That was as of Sept. 30th, was it not? nt

[FlyingSquirrel]

57. Either that or Oct. 29. point is 500,000 is way off

As is the "94% of his contributions came from donations of under $250"

[ClarkUSA]

64. See link from Washington Post fundraising tally webpage:

See: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/finance/

And this: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1007/Clinton_Obama_raise_and_burn.html

[zulchzulu]

67. It depends on the meaning of "donors" is

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20clinton.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin