Will Enough Men Stand By This Woman? Clinton Fight for the White House Reflects Battle of the Sexes

[DeepModem Mom]

WP: Will Enough Men Stand By This Woman?
Hillary Clinton's Fight for the White House Reflects the Battle of the Sexes
By Lois Romano
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 20, 2007; C01

....As the world of politics fixates on the women's vote in this cycle, there looms a question: What about the guys? They're in the gender gap. In Iowa, Clinton's support among male Democratic caucusgoers lags behind Barack Obama, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll. In New Hampshire, she's doing better among male Democrats, but she faces questions about her candor. Half of men say she's not willing to say what she really thinks. Large majorities say that Obama and John Edwards are.

Nationally, her gender gap among Democrats is smaller, the poll shows, but some analysts suggest that these numbers are not strong enough for a general election, because a majority of male independents view her unfavorably. Her lead in the national polls has been attributed primarily to female supporters, and her campaign has worked doggedly to cultivate them. She also has an edge with male primary voters nationally within her own party. But introduce independents, those precious swing voters she will need to win a general election, and the picture is not as kind. Let's just say that if this were high school, she wouldn't make prom court.

Women's rights advocates attribute male skepticism about Clinton to long-ingrained sexism -- and a sense that men, no matter what they say, just aren't ready for a female president. And political conservatives have exploited those often-unspoken fears of female power to caricature Clinton for years. But in several interviews with Democratic men across the country, the stated reasons for their aversion to Clinton seem more complicated, and in many cases, far more visceral than substantive.

They just don't like her, some say. They don't know what she stands for. They believe her word is no good, that she doesn't believe that she can be held accountable. They see her as intellectual snob who lets you know she's smarter. They say she sounds like everybody's ex-wife. They can't tell if she's the loyal, traditional wife who stayed with her husband for love after his humiliating extramarital affair -- or a canny politician who stayed because it was politically expedient. Even: Is she a Yankees or a Cubs fan?

For the Clinton campaign, these last few weeks before the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary are a push to sweep away such personal reservations for voters. The New York senator continues to be ranked highest nationally among Democrats in polls on key traits, such as most presidential, knowledgeable about the world, electable and experienced. Still, it is Democratic men rather than women who in interviews have the long memories for the long-ago rumors and White House scandals that portray Clinton as an angry woman -- the travel office fiasco when she pushed to have the longtime staff fired, or the never-proved rumor that she once threw a lamp -- or an ashtray, pick your weapon of choice -- at her husband....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/19/AR2007121902520_pf.html

[bunnies]

1. I know many more women than men who are against HRC.

And the women... far more strongly. Just my personal experience.

[depakid]

2. Yep- more stunning analysis from the Post

:eyes:

[bunnies]

3. oh please.

This snarky response is bullshit. My personal experience contradicts the OP. Thats all I was saying. Dont try to twist it into something different.

[sniffa]

4. they're just panicking

don't sweat it.

:hi:

[bunnies]

7. I know. You're right.

I need to take a deep breath. :hi:

[depakid]

10. LOL -not panicking at all. Just pointing out the obvious

That the Post has (as usual) published agenda driven and full of crap-

In essense, it's NOT a credible source (and actually an embarrassment) to rely on or cite.

[BootinUp]

5. thanks for the anecdotal evidence nt

[Bright Eyes]

6. I take my dislike for Senator Clinton based on her past (and present)

positions on Iraq and Iran. And her health care plan is less then convincing. She has little credibility in my book. It is NOT, i repeat NOT because she's a woman.

It's sad to see some of her supporters resort to ad hominem attacks because they can't win on the issues.

[itsrobert]

8. Call me sexist if you like

But I think once the family arrives at the Caucus, some women who might want to vote for Hillary will stand with their husbands in the Obama or Edwards caucus. Not that I don't think women can't think for themselves. But males are the traditional head of the families. And in some families, everyone is expected to follow the leader. I also see the daughters and sons of the leader of the family falling in line behind the "male" head of the family. I think this is one of the problems with the caucus. I think Hillary would probably do better on a traditional (secret) ballot.

[cali]

9. sure you're a sexist, but anyone who's read your posts knows that already.

you've posted quite a few. Sexism is no better than racism or homophobia.

Males are no longer the heads of the family. Most couples see their marriages as partnerhips- much as this may distress you. It's bullshit that the women dems going to the Iowa caucus will fall in line submissively behind hubby, and women don't need a secret ballot anymore than men, to express their preferences- whether they support Clinton or anyone else.

Sexists are every bit as deplorable as racists. You are a sexist.

[BootinUp]

11. would you stop hedging

and just spit it out. j/k

[cali]

12. yeah, I know that was hard core, but I'm really sick

of sexist crap like that on a progressive board. And it just doesn't bother people in the same way as racism or homophobia- and that bugs me too.

[itsrobert]

13. keyword "some"

not all. Sorry if you only think in only black and white terms with no gray. Not all woman (and probably) most will vote for the candidate they want. "Some" will want to vote for Hillary but will not.

[sandnsea]

15. And some men will vote for Hillary

and all it will take is one look from the wife for them to shut up and drink their coffee while standing with the Hillary caucus.

[itsrobert]

17. That might be true too

Very possible. But I say, a traditional ballot would be better for Hillary.

[cali]

19. the entire tone of your post was sexist bullshit and as I noted it's hardly

the first time. And you don't fucking know that ANY woman who wants to vote for ANY candidate won't do so because of her husband and "overlord".

[dionysus]

18. if i was your husband\boyfriend\partner or whatever, i sure as hell wouldn't want to get on

the wrong side of you! and i mean that as a compliment!

great post :)

[cali]

20. thank you. And thanks very much for

being a guy who doesn't stand any sexists crap.

[dionysus]

21. i prefer the stronger women as opposed to the stepfords...

i literally fell in love with a girl once cause she socked me in the face, but thats a complicated story...

peace! :hi:

[sandnsea]

14. lololol

:rofl:

I needed a good laugh.

[babylonsister]

16. I think you're wrong. We've come a long way, baby. It'd be a

cold day in hell when most any of us would 'stand by our man' and vote the way he wanted us to if our opinions differed.

[hayu_lol]

22. Lotta fundies in Iowa...

and most of their women 'graciously submit' by pastoral orders to their husbands. Doesn't matter if he is the town drunk...they will go along because they are supposed to.

Good points Cali...I agree with you.

The WAPO reporter used a number of innuendoes brought wholesale from Republic Talking Points.

Slam and slur Hillary all you want...you nay-sayers...she has done more in her adult life for others than have any of the guys presently running.

We, collectively, do not choose our candidates. They choose themselves and we are left with only the choices between what they offer. We can help them realize their dream by voting(provided the votes are counted).

Given a fairly level gender field, there would be no more He said(good)and She said(bad). The he/she would not be considered.

I see no reason to prevent Hillary from being elected. Certainly not because she is a she instead of a he. Throw that old saw out and listen to what she says. This is only the primary, not the GE. All these people will have to suddenly shift gears and be more specific. Hillary already has her shift ready to go. I don't see where this group of guys are ready for the transition.

We could have gotten better candidates to run. Coulda, shoulda, mighta done that two years ago. To late now, we have to select from the available selection. Gender difference ain't worth spit.

[babylonsister]

23. I defer to you as I have no knowledge of the kind of people that

live in Iowa, though there are many liberals, no? For me, I'd never vote the way my husband did, especially if he told me to! That's usually not a problem, as he's fairly liberal on most things himself.

[Quixote1818]

24. Some men might say they are for Hillary in a poll for fear they will sound prejudice of women

Just as they say some people might say they will vote for Obama because they don't want to seem prejudice.

I am for Edwards but in some cases when I am around a lot of women who like Hillary, I will just say I am for Hillary even though I am not just to keep the peace.

Had Hillary been Barbara Boxer then I would have been all for her. They just ran the wrong woman who is running a very centrist campaign.