Remember the hope: Kerry rallies in '04 still the biggest political rallies in history

[beachmom]

There has been a lot of gushing about the crowds Oprah got for Obama last weekend, which were, of course, extraordinary. But the reality is that John Kerry, who appeared with Bruce Springsteen in Madison, WI and with Bill Clinton in Philadelphia, PA in 2004, got the biggest crowds for a political rally in history. How do you beat Kerry? Get over 80,000 people:

http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/topstories/261681

On the New York Times political blog, The Caucus, reporter Katharine Q. Seelye wrote about the duo's rally at the University of South Carolina's football stadium in Columbia:

"It was a staggering sight. Upwards of 29,000 people at a political rally. And the Democratic primary in South Carolina is not until Jan. 26.

"The Double O Express -- Oprah for Obama -- drew what is easily the biggest crowd at a campaign event, for any candidate, so far this season," Seelye continued. "It may have helped that the day was unseasonably warm, above 70 degrees, and gorgeously sunny. But this size crowd is rare even for a general election in the fall."

...

I can tell Seelye that in Madison alone in the past 15 years, we have had two political rallies featuring non-incumbent candidates that outdrew the Double O Express. One of them easily drew more than double the Carolina crowd for Oprah-Obama. It featured Bruce Springsteen and John Kerry, and for anyone who was there, as I was, it remains unforgettable.

He then tells a nice nostalgic story of seeing Bill Clinton and Al Gore at a big 1992 rally in Madison, which you can read at the link.

Still, that one pales in comparison to Springsteen's appearance for Kerry. A Madison alderman, Mark Clear, actually took up the New York Times on its invitation to recall a larger campaign crowd.

On Sunday, Clear posted the following comment on the Times' blog: "John Kerry (and Bruce Springsteen) drew an estimated 80,000 on October 28, 2004. Oprah's good, but she's no Bruce."

Clear's post didn't mention that the rally was here, but it was, with a stage set up at the bottom of West Washington Avenue, facing up toward the Capitol. West Washington was packed and the crowd spilled out into the side streets. For once, the students had the luxury boxes -- their second story front porches -- and when Springsteen showed up and sang "No Surrender," the Kerry campaign's theme song, it was magical. You could have made a lot of money betting on George W. Bush that day, because 80,000 people would have bet against you.

I did a little checking on Tuesday to see if the Kerry-Springsteen appearance in Madison four years ago might have drawn the largest crowd to a political rally, ever.

Once again, the only other name coming up to rival that crowd was John Kerry appearing with Bill Clinton (who was referred to as a rock star) in Philadelphia, PA, which also was around 80,000.

Madisonians were happy to see the real rock star, and Springsteen, too, knew something special happened that day. The following spring, after Kerry had narrowly lost the election, Springsteen told a Minneapolis reporter that the experience had stayed with him.

"I sat in front of 80,000 people in Madison, Wis.," Springsteen said, "and it was probably one of the most amazing days of my musical life. There was a lot of hope."

The thing that no one can deny is the Philly rally and the Madison rally had one thing in common: John Kerry. Because the electoral loss was so painful, people decided it was easier to forget the hope and excitement Democrats felt leading up to November 2, 2004. But there is an official record of pictures and stories that show that John Kerry symbolized hope throughout the fall of '04, and his being denied becoming president, was a real loss to our country.

[underpants]

1. It is quite remarkable what we did in 2004

With a party leadership (McAuliffe) who clearly were willing to let this one go so their "guy" could be next and with a public literally walking out from the bombshelter post-9/11 looking around and seeing that there WERE others who survived who were like them we got out and volunteered and marched and called and did everything we could.

Amazing when you think about it.

[Tellurian]

11. Yes, I remember quite well We based our vote on "HOPE" ... for a Dem President..

I can tell you this. I'll never fall for the HOPE meme ever again!

[karynnj]

16. Clinton used the theme, "hope", Edwards used "Hope is on the way"

Kerry had the more real, "Help is on the way". The confusion was that Edwards continued to use "hope", though I never understood "hope is on the way". Hope was already there and strong, Springsteen noted. If you say "on the way", you need something that is in the future.

So - attack Clinton "a little town called Hope" or Edwards "hope is on the way".

[Tellurian]

21. So, you're blaming Clinton for a town named HOPE..as if s/he's responsible?

thats a streach, even for you!

I HOPED Kerry would have fought for us and his election win..

[karynnj]

29. No - I'm saying that was a campaign theme

you are really having reading comprehension problems - "Hope" and "It's the Economy, stupid" were two dominant Clinton themes.

Your post commented on "hope" as the theme - and it was ... in 1992.

[MH1]

46. I agree with you about the slogan mixup.

I first heard "Help is on the way" and thought "that's good!" Then I heard "hope is on the way" and thought, huh? Kerry/Edwards *is* the "hope" and they are *here*, not "on the way." Sigh. I finally learned recently that it was Edwards who apparently had to have things his way instead of going with what had already been decided (and was a better slogan anyway). Having the two different slogans did not improve the image of the campaign. I'm sure it wasn't a huge impact, but it didn't help.

[karynnj]

51. That's how I saw it as well - and like you, didn't see where the weaker

"hope is on the way" came from. I also saw at least some commentary that it meant they were changing their slogan or were not well defined. If it was true, as it seems to be, that it was Edwards simply refusing to do as asked and told (at a point where Kerry couldn't fire him or indicate any anger), then he was a nightmare of a VP choice. I doubt anyone in the media or party would have thought him so egotistical that he would not be a team player.

[proudmoddemo]

55. Don't Get Me Started on That

Kerry had a great slogan--"A Stronger America." Perfect for the year. But because Edwards didn't like it (probably because he himself didn't write it), he went off the reservation and started with this "Hope is on the way," rerun of 1992.

I actually don't think the Clintons had anything to do with that (though they might've penned the line for him after he decided he had to have a new slogan). I think that was Edwards being Edwards, which is why I don't support him in the primary. If forced, I will vote for him over Clinton because he is the lesser of two evils, and his mistakes are somewhat more forgivable. I will still be happy if Edwards wins, but less so than I would be if Richardson or Obama knocks off Hillary.

And the thing was, it would've been easy for Edwards to integrate his "Two America's," memo into the "Stronger America," theme. If he had only listened to Kerry's people, and said something like,

"I've been traveling around the country a lot, and I've seen two Americas--one for the insured; the other for the uninsured; one for the big corporate fat cats that dine on caveir (sp?), and another for the worker that is pulling 80 hour weeks at two jobs to send their kid to college. I think that's wrong, and makes us weaker. That's why John Kerry and I are running, when we're President we're going to make America stronger by....Do you want a weak America or a strong one." It would've been perfect for his style. Too bad he didn't have the courage to try it out.

Still, he is better about it this year. I still don't trust him. But he's far better, and more trust worthy, than the Clintons--who will do anything to have power.

[kerrygoddess]

66. Well Springsteen said he had "hope"

I think the controversy over who cam e up with what slogan is mute in this context. Kerry gave me hope to be honest and that was something I said from early on in my involvement with the campaign. I did a post on this story and noted that Kerry gave me hope - http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2007/12/12/oprahs-good-at-drawing-a-crowd-for-obama-but-the-boss-and-kerry-still-hold-the-record/

[proudmoddemo]

70. Fair Enough

Still, I think Edwards was a little bit off the reservation on that one. It's not that his message was bad, it's just that it wasn't as good IMO.

[blm]

19. We remember well that McAuliffe said DNC wouldn't let Bush steal another election and

then sat on his hands for four years while RNC did EXACTLY THAT.

Without an election process that had proper security measures in place, there was no way to access the legal evidence to prove the stolen election.

McAuliffe knew EXACTLY what he was doing from 2001-2004..... for Hillary2008.

[Tellurian]

22. Um...must be blm...she's still on ignore...

with, I imagine, nothing new to say, as usual.

[karynnj]

30. and you saw this while see was on ignore, how clever of you

[mtnsnake]

33. Not that hard to figure out if that poster only has one poster on ignore

I don't know if Tellurian only has one poster on ignore or not. Just sayin', though.

[MH1]

43. Thank you, you are so right.

People who hate Bush intensely want to believe that every one else did too, so how could Kerry possibly lose? But sadly, our fellow Americans were not so wise to what Bush was about in those days. Sigh...

[HughBeaumont]

2. I was at the Cleveland one (50,000).

Unfortunately, since Corporations run everything and control the message and elections, he was marginalized in favor of a fucking moran.

Never again allow another Bewsh in the White House.

[beachmom]

4. Do you have any pics by any chance? That goes for anyone who

reads this. It is important to remember what the media censored. That there was a lot of excitement for Kerry, with huge crowds showing up to his rallies.

[HughBeaumont]

6. I can ask my union friend, who was actually sitting at the front of the rally . . .

My pics . . . are not that great. They don't even pick up the numbers of people that were there and this is before I moved in the 21st century and got a digital camera.

[MadBadger]

7. The link in my signature is to the video of Bruce's performance in Madison.

fantastic.

[beachmom]

12. Thanks so much for that link, hnmnf. That was a great day. I still

remember CNN carrying it (and the BC appearance in Philly), and then realizing -- oh, yeah, we're supposed to be propping up Bush, and cutting away. In short, these rallies were fantastic pictures, and the corpmedia refused to show them for too long. It was ridiculous. I wanted to watch it.

[karynnj]

18. Was it in Madison where Bruce Springsteen gave an awesome short speech

for Kerry before singing? The connection between Springsteen and Kerry was incredible and unusual - they both knew the other was the real deal. Thanks for the link - it is fantastic.

In 2001 or 2002, I took my oldest to see a Joan Jett concert in Asbury Park . As we live several hours away, we stayed a local hotel. The waitress hearing that my daughter was there to see a show ended up discussing all the musicians she had seen. (It was off season - so there were very few people there) When she spoke of Springsteen she spoke of how much he did as a person for the town and how he was involved in helping underprivileged kids avoid drugs and succeed. She spoke of how this had really helped her kid. That he had the credibility to do it.

[beachmom]

24. That connection continues, with Bruce using Kerry's words from '71 in a new song:

http://www.springsteenlyrics.com/lyrics/l/lasttodie.php

We took the highway till the road went black
We'd marked, Truth Or Consequences on our map*
A voice drifted up from the radio
And I thought of a voice from long ago

Who'll be the last to die for a mistake
The last to die for a mistake
Whose blood will spill, whose heart will break
Who'll be the last to die for a mistake

That voice was John Kerry. They saw each other recently:

http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2007/11/14/springsteen-this-ones-for-john

Friends in High Places. Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (D) may not be running for higher office this time around, but he was still able to get a shout-out from the Boss on Monday night.

In the middle of Bruce Springsteen and his E Street Band’s set at the Verizon Center, Springsteen prefaced the anti-war song “Last to Die” with a dedication: “This one’s for John,” according to an HOH tipster who wasn’t too busy rockin’ out to notice political endorsements.

Springsteen, an outspoken Bush critic, pays tribute in the song to Kerry’s famous quote from the Vietnam-era Congressional hearing, when he asked the panel, “How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?”

Springsteen’s props didn’t fall on deaf ears. Kerry, who’s been a Springsteen fan since the 1980s and keeps an autographed poster from Springsteen’s Concert for Vietnam Veterans in Los Angeles in 1981 in his Senate hideaway office, got some face time with the rocker before the concert started and was in the audience for Springsteen’s tribute.

“Bruce Springsteen is both a patriot and a poet, and his music and friendship energize and sustain me,” Kerry said. “He’s an inspiration.”

Bruce's endorsement, support, and appearances for Kerry were not all about ABB. Clearly, Bruce thought long and hard before coming out for Kerry, and there is no guarantee he will do such an endorsement again. He obviously respected and still respects Kerry to this day.

[karynnj]

32. It was said then that he had never endorsed anyone before

and that he had always refused the use of his songs to both Republicans (who misunderstood "Born in the USA") and Democrats.

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. THANK YOU - have been looking for that video for ages

[kerrygoddess]

69. Thank you!

I included the video in my post on the article: http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2007/12/12/oprahs-good-at-drawing-a-crowd-for-obama-but-the-boss-and-kerry-still-hold-the-record/

[proudmoddemo]

3. Kerry ran a hell of a campaign

John Kerry ran one hell of a campaign for President. In late 2003, the conventional inside the beltway thought was that Democrats were going to get wiped out in a landslide on 1964 proportions. Some thought that would be good because it would make the candidate the liberals' Goldwater.

Then we nominated Kerry, and he got us to within 3% of the Presidency, despite a media that trashed him with the swift boat lies, and a Democratic establishment that didn't help out. So, all in all, his performance was amazing. But he's inconvenient for the establishment because he's independent. Too bad, would've of been a great President.

[karynnj]

26. I agree completely and welcome to DU

He is an amazing person. Too bad the Democratic establishment didn't want victory as much as the people did. If people like Carville would have put aside their own preferences long enough to even look at Kerry's platform and communicate it, Kerry would be President. (Consider no Republican talking head bulked in supporting the accomplishmentless Bush - yet Begala and Carville led the chorus of Kerry is just ABB. Not helpful.)

[proudmoddemo]

50. And it'll be so glorious

When another candidate--maybe the one that Kerry put on the map by letting him give the keynote speech and lending out his best speech writer to help edit it--defeats Hillary in the primary. Chickens always come home to roost. They are coming home to roost now, and I, for one, like it. I will be so happy when Hillary concedes. Their back-stabbing of the party will NOT be unnoticed. (Did the same to Gore too; maybe Al will endorse...hope he does, and hope it isn't Hillary).

[karynnj]

54. My sentiments exactly

I actually think that both Gore and Kerry may not endorse at least before Iowa. Within a week, we will be in the Christmas/ New Years time and then the primary. Kerry said yesterday in a teleconference (www.kerryvision.net) where he was asked of a rumor that he would be endorsing Obama. His answer was that he heard the rumor when he had gotten back from Bali and had no idea where it came from. He said that he had no idea who he would endorse or if he would endorse. In the past he has graciously turned the question around to generically praise all the Democrats and criticize all the Republicans. Gore is suppose to be in Bali this week. So, for similar timing reasons, I doubt he would endorse.

[kerrygoddess]

64. Yes he did.

I couldn't agree more.

[MadBadger]

5. I love that Bruce peformance

You can click the link in my signature if you want to see it. But the thing is, that was a general election, when dems were united behind Kerry. 30,000 people for a primary is oustanding because the vote is split between 7-8 other candidates.

[Adelante]

8. Yes, full credit to both

But it's not comparable.

[beachmom]

9. Oh, absolutely. I wasn't trying to downplay what Oprah and Obama achieved.

I'm just saying that there was real excitement in '04, despite the re-writing of history these days. But '04 got bigger rallies than '92, '96, and '00. It will be interesting to see what '08 brings us. If Obama gets the nomination, it is possible he will break the Kerry records. But we still have the primaries, so we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

[Adelante]

13. The GE is the Olympics

The primaries are farm teams playing other farm teams (I think - I'm not too sports-educated).

I hope they both can hold their titles in a way. I love them both. But I do certainly agree, the revisionism on 2004 is something to behold.

[BeyondGeography]

10. And they didn't collect a single name or address

I know, kind of hard to do, but I'll take a well-organized rally of 30,000 people who are actively and concretely encouraged to participate in the campaign (and call/text others real-time to do so) than the mass rallies referred to above.

Here's what I'm talking about:

==At least 66,500 people attended the weekend Oprah-Obama rallies across three pivotal states, the Democratic presidential candidate's campaign said Monday. Admission didn't cost any money, but it wasn't free - everyone who entered had to fill out a ticket stub with information on how they could be contacted.

As ticket stubs were collected at the Iowa events Saturday, they were sorted by geographical region. As the rallies ended, volunteer messengers braved icy roads to begin delivering stubs to the 35 offices across the state. Other stubs were scanned into image files and sent via computer.

The Obama campaign said 4,250 people pledged their time in order to get priority tickets to the rallies, agreeing to volunteer at least four hours so they could get a closer view of the Chicago talk show queen and her hometown senator.

In South Carolina, Obama's people said 68 percent of the nearly 30,000 people who showed up had never communicated with them before. Each person who entered the stadium for the rally was given a list of four phone numbers and first names along with a script for them to deliver in calls they should make asking for support in the upcoming primary.

...Hildebrand, sitting on a couch in the Des Moines office lobby to make way for all the volunteers working the desk phones, said Monday the goal was to put in a call to each of the attendees within 48 hours. Each person gets a thank-you for attending, some discussion of how inspiring the event was and is asked whether he or she will commit to voting for Obama and come in and volunteer. Those who live in Iowa are asked to attend a house party Thursday night near their home, and the callers have the local party address ready for anyone who might be interested.==

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7142066,00.html

[beachmom]

14. Honestly, there is a difference between a G.E. and a primary.

Primary voters are more committed to voting and participating. I don't know how I feel about doing what you have described for a general election rally. And are you positive that there was no GOTV effort being done at this Madison rally? I can't say either way. What I do know is that state legislatures made GAINS in 2004 for Democrats, that organizational efforts were being made in 2004, for which we reaped the benefits in 2006. Sometimes it takes a couple of cycles for grassroots efforts to take hold. And, of course, there is the fact that Dean heads the DNC now.

[BeyondGeography]

15. That Kerry rally made my remaining hairs stand up, too

I just think people should realize the Obama campaign wasn't just doing photo ops with Oprah; many people don't know about the accompanying organizational effort.

Here's what that article said about the Springsteen concert:

==Stephanie Cutter, who was communications director for 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, says the impact of the Oprah event is different from the concert Bruce Springsteen held in Madison, Wis., during the final days of that election. The Springsteen event drew an estimated 80,000 people, although unlike the Oprah event, no one knows for sure how many people were there since no tickets or personal information was collected.

``We estimated a good portion of them were new to the campaign and were hearing John Kerry for the first time,'' she said. ``The difference is we didn't sign those 80,000 people up to work for us in the Wisconsin general election. An endorsement is more than an endorsement when you're creating a field plan around it.''==

[beachmom]

20. Thanks for the link to that article. I don't, however, consider Stephanie

Cutter to be particularly pro-Kerry anymore. This is what she said on the day Kerry announced he would not run for prez in '08:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012400943.html

Stephanie Cutter, Kerry's national spokeswoman in 2004, praised the senator for the campaign he ran, but she added: "The reality is the 2008 race moved past him months ago, and catching up would have taken much more than another candidate's implosion or last-minute surge."

Not particularly gracious, especially since HE HAD DROPPED OUT. The WP was looking for a negative quote, and got one from her, and that is sad.

[BeyondGeography]

23. Pretty harsh of her

tough business, this politics thing.

[karynnj]

34. Notice the date - Oct 28

It was 5 days before the election - it was a get out the vote effort itself. This timing is different.

[karynnj]

28. How do you know that?

From what I remember they led the crowd to a polling place. (I think for registering - but they might have started voting.)

I do know that at a Kerry event for Corzine in 2005, they took names, email and phone numbers of all who would give them. Did you forget that Kerry had (and has) an email list with 3 million entries. Obama did not invent taking names, nor did Kerry - it's happened since I first went to any rallies decades ago.

[sandnsea]

36. Well they didn't phone bank at the rallies

I do know that and that was a stroke of genius. They didn't collect my name at the small event in Portland, so I highly doubt they did it at the 50,000 event in the summer. I did, however, get tickets online, so I know they got my name from there, at least. The Obama campaign has some of the best grassroots organizers in the country, one is a fellow who organized with Cesar Chavez.

[MH1]

39. Your statement is incorrect, if I understand what you are saying.

At Kerry's Philly rally in October 2004, people were supposed to get tickets (free) either online or through their local party people.

I volunteered and was working at the gate. The gated area held, I guess about 30,000 plus. People had to have a ticket to get into the gated area. I know that some tix were given out without collecting contact info but it is incorrect to say "they didn't collect a single name or address".

[BeyondGeography]

41. The statement refers to the Madison rally

again, not trashing Kerry, just promoting a more strategic approach to mass gatherings. Every good campaign moves the organzational knowledge base forward. Obama did that this weekend with the Oprah gatherings.

[MH1]

42. Ah, okay

I don't know about how Madison was done. Maybe the Kerry campaign wised up for Philly.

I'm glad Obama is doing it better, anyway. Gobama! (Beat Hillary! ABH '08). :)

[kerrygoddess]

67. If I am not mistaken...

All Kerry rallies had a sign up page on his website that collected names, zip codes and email addresses. Likewise members of his email list got emails inviting them to the rallies and requesting that people sign up for tickets.

Sure people showed up that hadn't signed up, but also let's remember that at the time of the event, a few days before election day Kerry had a massive email list that had well over a million names, zip codes and email addresses.

In December '04 the WaPo reported: "More than 2.7 million supporters signed up to receive his campaign e-mails, which his advisers have said were critical to its fundraising success." - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24796-2004Dec24.html?referrer%3Demail&sub=AR

Kerry was ahead of the curve in '04. Technology has changed since then, we've learned more about utilizing online organization, it will continue to change. Look back to the early days of the '04 cycle and remember the Dean campaign was touted first for their use of technology. No doubt WHOEVER takes the nomination will step it up a few more notches.

[blm]

17. This is why RNC had to steal that election for Bush, too. They were BEAT by the far better man

but the RNC had worked for 4yrs to set up the steal for Bush.

And the DNC sat by for four years and LET it happen.

[Nederland]

27. 80,000 people counts as the biggest in history?

I think not. Many Vietnam era political rallies had far more people than that...

Perhaps you meant campaign rally?

[beachmom]

31. Not my words -- the author of the article. A political rally meaning

for a politician -- yes, a political campaign rally is probably more accurate.

[sandnsea]

35. Imagine what Obama will do in the GENERAL ELECTION

I love John Kerry, but come on, fair is fair. Obama is pulling crowds like none we've ever seen before. JK did not pull these kinds of crowds in the primaries, nowhere near.

[beachmom]

37. That's not what the NYT blog said, though. They said it was the biggest

political rally EVER, not the biggest primary political rally. And IMO that is the usual way the media blocks out the large support Kerry had in '04. I agree that if Obama won the nomination, he would most likely break Kerry's record. But also don't forget that the '04 primary race was different; it was considered not a winnable election year, with an incumbent president. There is also the fact that Obama first has to win the primaries.

Edit:

Look at what was said on the NYT blog:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/oprahpalooza-in-south-carolina/

The Double O Express — Oprah for Obama — drew what is easily the biggest crowd at a campaign event, for any candidate, so far this season. It may have helped that the day was unseasonably warm, above 70 degrees, and gorgeously sunny. But this size crowd is rare even for a general election in the fall. (JFK drew about 35,000 for a Labor Day rally in 1960; get to work, Caucus readers, and tell us if you know of a bigger campaign rally without an incumbent president.)

So she had to go back to 1960, because the MSM has started to drink their own Kool Aid that "nobody liked John Kerry"? That is patently false. Notice she said it was rare in a general election. Well, actually, it wasn't: Kerry got 80K in Philly and Madison, and 50K in Cleveland. That's just from that article, and one of the posters here. So it was a bullshit post completely editing out the excitement around Kerry in '04.

[sandnsea]

40. I see your point

I missed that part. Those rallies were mentioned on MSNBC so I didn't realize anybody would be so stupid as to just pretend they didn't happen.

[beachmom]

45. Were they mentioned on MSNBC this week? Or are you just talking

about when they happened?

[sandnsea]

47. Yes, on Monday for sure

Bruce Springsteen and the Madison rally specifically. And a bit about other celebrity endorsements. MSNBC has mostly been down-playing it by comparing it to other celebrity events.

[MH1]

38. Thank you!

I thought about that when I heard the gushing about the Oprah-Obama rally. I figured that in the context of a primary, maybe the hype is warranted.

BUT - I was at that huge Philly rally that Kerry did - and it was incredible. I will never forget!

[beachmom]

44. Oh, wow. That must have been amazing. Ahem, Bill did better in '04

than he is doing now:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/12/91934/808/1010/421039

[MH1]

48. Heh heh...

There was one thing I was very sad about after that rally...in my words at the time, "I didn't get to shake the hand of the next President of United States" (:cry:)

Of course you know that I've been blessed, along with a few others here ... thanks to the DU Kerry group and certain wonderful people ... to do a little better than a rope-line handshake since. :P But that Philly rally was when I knew absolutely completely 100% I was voting FOR John Kerry.

[sandnsea]

49. I just heard that, lol

so much for Bill being the only reason all those people showed up in 2004. lol. Maybe this little comeuppance is just what the Clintons need because I would still bet she's going to be the nominee.

[karynnj]

53. He was with a better and nicer candidate in 2004

I hated the MSM coverage of that rally. I saw the coverage on CSPAN (I think). Kerry actually got as much applause when introduced as Bill - and his speech was at least as well received. There is a difference in what they are good at. When googling to see who the keynote speakers were for a thread yesterday - where many beat me to the answer - I found a comment by Mark Shields (from 1996) who spoke of Bill Clinton as one of the most articulate people he ever heard, but one of the least eloquent of major politicians. He then spoke of how though Clinton's speeches were very clear, afterwards there were no phrases you remembered. That may be too harsh, but it does help explain one thing I couldn't explain before. (Think how many lines from 2004 that people can even now repeat at least semi-accurately.)

Kerry, like Obama, is an exceptionally eloquent speaker - some times even in off the cuff comments. He does not have the conciseness of the Clintons, though he has clearly worked on that. His genuineness and morality are reflected in phrases that are near poetic at times. I have never seen political speeches interrupted as often by standing ovations and applause as there were at Kerry 2006 speeches on dissent and Real Security.

[politicasista]

56. When I was talking with

a blogger friend. (She is supporting HRC), but she was quoting from the Fineman--Newsweek article about Bill making a better case for Kerry than Kerry himself did (stupid media. :()

I read on a message board (not here)from people that were at the rally say that people left after BC spoke. :shrug: But I do agree that the rallies do erase the myth that people's weren't excited about Kerry, which I still here from supporters of other 08 candidates I talk to. Sigh.


I do agree with you about the Kerry--Obama comparison though.

[karynnj]

58. I'm sure there may have been some people who did leave

Clinton spoke first. That means there were SOME people who were there to see Clinton - no surprise. The fact is that the crowd was gigantic and at least from the shots on TV was still huge and enthusiastic after Clinton spoke. If I remember right - Clinton spoke for maybe 5 or 10 minutes, he was clearly not fully back physically and was a pale version of himself. Kerry, following him, actually seemed more dynamic that Clinton was.

The fact is Bill Clinton did not make a good case for Dukakis, for Gore or for Kerry. Both the Kerry and Gore speech were at least 75% justification of the Clinton years. It is interesting that his speeches for HRC aren't much better. It may make me think that it was just the way he is.

[politicasista]

60. Excellent analysis n/t

[zulchzulu]

52. I was there with a press pass and videotaped it

It was mind-blowingly huge!

Here's Bruce singing and speaking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VvIjBqlqQM

[NewYorkerfromMass]

57. Hey it's always good to drag this out of storage!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=31179&mesg_id=31179

And I think Obama, and even Hillary could manage to do the same.
We'll see....

[karynnj]

62. Thank you for this - what a great thread.

[FrenchieCat]

59. I remember fondly all that you have reminded us of....however,

the impressive point about Obama's crowd is that they are occuring during the primaries when many Dems are running, not during the General election, when only one Dem was running....and that is a very important difference.

[SunDrop23]

61. I'll never forget the K-E rally here in Raleigh NC.

What a great day that was.

[PresidentObama]

63. People can claim otherwise, but America was begging for hope and change--and begging for Kerry.

These were the two most impressive moments of the 2004 campaign.

Watching Bruce and Kerry was amazing. And see the large crowd, wow.

Watching Bill Clinton come back to be with Senator Kerry, it was Democratic magic.

I was so hopeful, and I still am.

Too bad President Kerry wasn't a reality.

[AngryAmish]

65. Were they bigger than the Nuremberg Rallies?

[beachmom]

72. This comes from the author. And let's not be so literalist:

1. In America
2. A political rally for a non-encumbent candidate

[jillan]

68. k/r for MY President.

[YvonneCa]

71. Mine, too...

...pirhana. :)

[pacalo]

73. Thanks for this thread -- I do remember the hope!

And I'll never forget this ominous picture taken the morning of the election, because it has "EVIL" written all over it:

[globalvillage]

75. Wow, great pics

except that last one, of course.
I love the photos with kids. The one of JK at the window is classic.

[LittleClarkie]

74. This is the one I was at

Half-frozen and drenched. We were hardy stock. He was impressed with how many there were of us, considering the weather.

[saltpoint]

76. God that is a great photograph.

[ClarkUSA]

77. They were the largest political rallies in Iowa, NH, SC, and primary history, I believe.

No one is trying to take anything away from Kerry, by the way. His crowd record was the largest in general election history... so far.

[beachmom]

78. Oh, I know. The issue was the NYT blog saying Obama's crowds

were the biggest EVER, when all the writer had to do was remember the crowds in 2004, and know they were bigger. But she didn't want to remember, because that would mean admitting that Kerry was popular.

If Obama gets the nomination, I sure hope he breaks the Kerry crowd records.