ARMY TIMES: ''Not us, we're not going'' Soldiers in Iraq refuse to patrol

[yurbud]

This is an incredible story, and has echoes the incidents near the end of SIR, NO SIR when troops at forward bases in Vietnam refused to go on patrols that they rightly judged as suicidal.

In this case, 2nd Platoon, Charlie Company, 1-26 Infantry in the 1st Infantry Division a mortar attack at a Burger King, watching a friend burn to death pinned under a Bradley, and their first sergeant putting a rifle under his chin and pulling the trigger because he felt responsible for the recent deaths of his men were some of the things that led to the incident below.

On July 17, Charlie’s 2nd Platoon was refitting at Taji when they got a call to go back to Adhamiya. They were to patrol Route Southern Comfort, which had been black — off-limits — for months. Charlie Company knew a 500-pound bomb lay on that route, and they’d been ordered not to travel it. “Will there be route clearance?” 2nd Platoon asked. “Yes,” they were told. “Then we’ll go.”

But the mission was canceled. The medevac crews couldn’t fly because of a dust storm, and the Iraqi Army wasn’t ready for the mission. Second Platoon went to bed.

They woke to the news that Alpha Company had gone on the mission instead and one of their Bradleys rolled over the 500-pound IED. The Bradley flipped. The explosion and flames killed everybody inside. Alpha Company lost four soldiers: Spc. Zachary Clouser, Spc. Richard Gilmore, Spc. Daniel Gomez and Sgt. 1st Class Luis Gutierrez-Rosales.

snip

“A scheduled patrol is a direct order from me,” Strickland said.

snip

“We said, ‘No.’ If you make us go there, we’re going to light up everything,” DeNardi said. “There’s a thousand platoons. Not us. We’re not going.”

They decided as a platoon that they were done, DeNardi and Cardenas said, as did several other members of 2nd Platoon. At mental health, guys had told the therapist, “I’m going to murder someone.” And the therapist said, “There comes a time when you have to stand up,” 2nd Platoon members remembered. For the sake of not going to jail, the platoon decided they had to be “unplugged.”

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/bloodbrothers3/">FULL TEXT

Vote this up on news ranking sites so more people see it:

http://www.buzzflash.net/story.php?id=33613"> http://reddit.com/info/62s2c/comments"> http://digg.com/world_news/Not_us_We_re_not_going">

[tabasco]

1. An endless, bloody unwinnable quagmire. All for corporate profits.

Bush and his corrupt administration need to be prosecuted and punished.

1-26 Infantry is in the 1st Infantry Division if anyone is interested.

[yurbud]

2. I'll add that 1-26

[simmonsj811]

31. K&R

KICK

[roguevalley]

37. this is how viet nam ended, troops refusing to go

[pansypoo53219]

3. 20 little indians + the 5 surge

must be getting old.
nothing but chasing their tails til the iraqqi government gets its shit together?
tell georgie to go fuck himself.

[yurbud]

4. problem is not Iraqi gov't getting shit together, but Iraqi perception we're there to screw them

How hard would you fight for a government that you thought was collaborating with a foreign occupier trying to steal your oil?

[RufusTFirefly]

6. Thank you! U.S. stories neglect the key fact that we're blackmailing Iraq

As a result, the false impression that the Iraqis are some sort of uncooperative fuckups persists. How cooperative would you be feeling if you were being forced to turn over your wealth to foreign corporations?

[Blue Fire]

54. Methinks it's more than perception.

Why else invent false "intelligence" to invade a sovereign nation!

[bahrbearian]

58. Yea , Blame it on the Dead Guy.

What Iragi Governmet ? Oh do you still pay with Puppets.

[autorank]

5. K*R And in the Army Times. Thakns.

[Spurt]

7. K&R

[SpiralHawk]

8. "Why, just follow the leader." - Commander AWOL

"If you just show the kind of honor, heroism, smirk, dedication and HARD WORK I show, everything will be peachy keen. Smirk, smirk, smirk."

- Commander AWOL

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. just wait for Rush or Sean to get this story

I can only imagine.
No, maybe I can't. my personal universe may be warped, but it ain't that bent yet.

[appal_jack]

10. K&R

The full article at the Army Times is very powerful, and a clear indictment of the clusterfuck that is US foreign policy under *.

-app

[tom_paine]

11. How long until fragging comes back into style?

If it already hasn't.

Loyal Bushie Cutouts very likely murdered (fragged) Pat Tillman, thereby killing the ONE man (literally) that could reach America's Beer Swilling Fat White Men (of which I am one...but I am a mutant to that "Good German" bunch) and turned the 2004 "election".

Loyal American Soldiers should consider very carefully, when they see Loyal Bushies, who are nothing lest than America's Greatest Enemies.

[Ilsa]

12. Did you see the ad on the right? Christian families are needed...

"Christian families are needed to serve as missionaries throughout the world.

There is no organization on earth more focused on creating and developing leaders than the US Military. You have been instilled with the very ideals that are critical to a successful missionary family. Missionary families demonstrate integrity in their actions. They exemplify strength in their convictions.


Are you that leader? Are you ready to complete the mission?

The Master's Mission operates an eleven-month training program designed to prepare missionary families for the challenges of remote and urban missionary service worldwide."


It is so bizarre to see that ad right next to the "we're not going" article

[SlingBlade]

13. We are watching yet another Generation

Of our young men and women become decimated and thrown away like so much garbage.

When will we ever learn, When ?

[bdamomma]

14. we will never learn.

we got to impeach these SOB's, and our voices are needed to be heard by our Senators and Reps.

[SlingBlade]

16. We've been sold out

As far as I can tell right now OUR representatives are no better than the Re-Pukes.

And it goes on and on and on.

[bdamomma]

21. in a way, these repukes want us to believe that.

they (repukes) are a big boulder blocking the way of any passage of any bill of the Dems, but then again, this disgusting * vetoes everything, there is only one alternative to IMPEACH THESE BASTARDS.

[SlingBlade]

29. Here Here take out the trash !

:)

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krkaufman]

45. Note that the Jamail article includes no comments from soldiers ...

... in Iraq after July 2006. I'd have liked to see comments from more recent tours.

[FREEWILL56]

62. Probably been sensored by the military under orders from

the incompetent in chief, Heir Bush.

[krkaufman]

64. Perhaps, but it does leave a wide gap in the reporting. n/t

[GMFORD]

66. The family I bought my house from is going on one of those.

He's a doctor and when he said he was going to Africa I asked if it was with Doctors without borders. He said No, the family were going on a mission for their church. I knew they were fundies based on the bible messages tacked up all over the place before I moved in. I said 'umm, that's nice' but I was thinking 'you should be going over there to provide medical assistance, not browbeat those poor people to convert to your religion'.

[DCKit]

15. The NeoCons have NOTHING if the military turns on them.

The unapproved release of the NIE is further proof that the military and the intelligence community are both fed up with this administration and their unAmerican, unConstitutional, unChristian and illegal NeoCon agenda for M.E. domination. Despite their best efforts to subvert those institutions charged with protecting the Constitution, some true patriots remain in positions that allow them to thwart the fascist agenda. It is most unfortunate it took so long for them to get a clue.

Sorry George and GFY Dick.

I can't Rec this one enough.

[BonnieJW]

17. You're wrong.

They have Blackwater and they will grow it large enough to suit their purposes.

[tridim]

18. Not if we pull their funding.

[jwirr]

30. Therein lays our greatest danger. Blackwater is a private army

and I am willing to bet a lot of their funding comes from the fascist corporations who want to rule the world.

[Gregory Purcell]

39. Bush will hold the troops hostage and let them die.

When are we going to learn you cant negotiate with a terrorist the only way to deal with him is to impeach him

The Democrats cant cut off the funding because Bush will just keep the troops in Iraq and hold there lives hostage to keep the terror the War the death the torture and the blood money flowing.

The only way to end this war is to Impeach Cheney then Bush.

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. 9 billion missing dollars, in cash. 100,000 missing weapons.

Blackwater setting up bases across THIS country.

Draw your own conclusions. I know mine.

[Recursion]

59. Umm.... 9 billion?

Try 2.6 TRILLION.

Google Dov Zakheim some time, if you're not familiar with the "gentleman"...

[Gregorian]

51. I've heard that's not true anymore.

They misappropriated enough funds that defunding them won't do anything. This was on Keith Olbermann a few nights ago.

Really screwed up scene.

[Recursion]

60. It's like that line from "Independence Day"

"Where does the funding for this come from?"

"You don't really think they actually spent $600 on a hammer, $1200 on a toilet seat, do you?"

[DCKit]

19. Do you honestly believe the military would allow that?

Themselves and their families in Blackwater's sights?

At best, they would be able to control the area inside the beltway and, possibly, some cities. American's who believe in the Constitution and the rule of law will NOT submit.

Dick's police state is a fantasy. An evil, depraved fantasy, but, hey, whatever floats your boat, as long as nobody gets hurt.

[lvx35]

52. The other component is that Blackwater is filled with ex-military.

Which raises another question of who will be willing to raise their sites on who.

[aquart]

22. Not if we withhold the money.

Blackwater is simply NOT cost effective for a government. Certainly not for one this large.

[bdamomma]

23. and Blackwater makes up their own rules.

they will not go away, remember they were used in NO.

[Imagevision]

65. Blackwater loves killing, they should fight the war and get our troops out ASAP!!

[trogdor]

49. You'll know when the GOP changes its tune on absentee ballots.

1996 - 10th Mtn. Div. sergeant major orders all enlisted personnel (including yours truly) into the post theater for a talk on the importance of voting. Absentee ballot applications are handed out.

2000 - GOP throws a hissy fit over absentee ballots without postmarks and turned in after Election Day being counted in Florida.

2004 - relative silence.

2008 - Who knows? Military absentee ballots now included in GOP concern list for "voter fraud."

I can see it.

[Ganja Ninja]

20. No wonder the violence is down. n/t

[Tom Joad]

24. Sir, No, Sir! ... get your dvd.

Go to the website
http://www.sirnosir.com/

[L0oniX]

25. Glad to see this is happening and it's about time.

I've wondered why our troops don't go awol for reasons of morality. It has looked like they'd rather kill than spend the time in prison which imo makes their actions totally immoral. You don't owe it to your country to murder others over a policy. Policy wars are never moral. Korea, Vietnam and Iraq were and are policy wars. Everyone who joined the service should have refused to participate in the Iraq war and that would have been the moral high ground to take. Because most did not, I do not support the troops. It is never your duty to do something that is morally wrong. If you do then your conscience, if you still have any will haunt you for the rest of your life. I don't have a problem with those that actually defend this country like those that did in WW2 because that was really defending this country. These other wars are wars for profit and for those who are quick to shed blood and love to do so. How many of the 1.2 million dead Iraqis were to blame for anything? They and their children were murdered by us! We are just as guilty as those that pulled the triggers. We pay taxes that fund this illegal war and that makes us all guilty.

[truedelphi]

26. What if th eentire stategy of the European Campaign during WWII had been

To Shock and Awe Berlin, and then have patrols drive up and down the Autobahn until they were
blown up by hostile fire.

We'd still be fighting that war, I think.

If there is no strategy then there should be no war.

[Tom Joad]

27. here's another pic that says much about what happen in Vietnam

As LBJ's genocidal war became Nixon's, with no end in sight, the resistance in the military increased dramatically. bombers would drop bombs on empty fields. platoons would refuse to deploy. officers knew they sometimes risked their lives from their own men if they were too gung-ho (it was called "fragging")

If you want to see the full size of the photo below, go here:
http://tomjoad.org/sirmymen_large.htm

[Tom Joad]

28. Brothers and Sisters in the Military: "Refuse to Fight! Refuse to Kill!"

You are being ordered to war in the footsteps of veterans, who, more than 10 years ago, were sent to fight the first Gulf War. Many of those vets returned with severe and unacknowledged illnesses. Many gave birth to severely deformed children. All were abandoned by the Veterans Administration.
You are being ordered to war by the most powerful nation on earth. You are being ordered to war by a nation with the most destructive weapons ever conceived, developed, deployed or used.
You are being ordered to war by a nation whose self-acknowledged posture is that of world domination, mastery, control.
This nation can have no moral justification for war.

We, the undersigned, are convinced that war is the greatest evil on earth. We believe that humankind must end war, or war will end humankind, and, in fact, all of creation.
Our convictions have driven us time and again to the Pentagon, White House and Congress in acts of civil resistance to war.
Now, we bring our plea to you, sisters and brothers, in the armed forces.
Refuse to kill.
Refuse the order to go to war.
Leave the military before it is too late.
We know your resistance to war will be difficult and require great courage But please reflect:
Is it more difficult than fighting in war?
Is it more difficult than being a pawn of corporate greed?
Is it more difficult than living with a violated conscience?
Is it more difficult than living with the poisons of war in your body and spirit?
Wrong is easy. Right is difficult and long. Do what your heart says is right.

We knowingly and willingly make this plea to you in violation of 18 USC Sec. 1381 and 2387 . (see below) We knowingly and willingly embrace some of your risk by urging you to refuse duty in the U.S. military. We plead with you, as Bishop Oscar Romero pleaded with Salvadoran troops: "When you hear the words of a man telling you to kill, remember instead the words of God: 'Thou shalt not kill!' No soldier is obliged to obey an order contrary to the law of God? In the name of God, in the name of our tormented people who have suffered so much and whose laments cry out to heaven, I beseech you, I beg you, I order you in the name of God, stop the repression!'" If you choose to leave the military, please know that our hearts and homes are open to you.

Contact Jonah House
http://www.jonahhouse.org/refuse.htm
________________________________________

I join Jonah House in this call to those in the military to refuse orders to harm anyone in Iraq. Let Iraq live, let it determine its own destiny. Leave the military. Disobey orders. Resist the Bush regime.

[DCKit]

38. Monsignor Romero was murdered by a U.S. trained death squad for that sermon...

Just thought ya'll should know. I was looking for that quote and his other info earlier, but couldn't find anything appropriate. Thanks!

[Tom Joad]

41. I do know that. while people are taking all kinds of risks for war...

isn't it the right time for us to take risks for peace?

As Daniel Berrigan has said, the waging of war, by its very nature, is total. Why shouldn't we be willing to wage peace with the same dedication?

[nealmhughes]

55. The Archbishop was murdered and we know who has his blood on their hands.

One of them was pardoned and now at the National Security Council after his stint back at Foggy Bottom. Elliott Abrams is the slime's name.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

32. Clearly the 2nd Platoon hates the troops...

:sarcasm:

[sakabatou]

34. Why do these soldiers hate America?

Do they want us to lose in Iraq? Are they Democrat spies? Tune in Fox News and find out.

:puke:

[Pierre.Suave]

35. wow, thats amazing

thanks for the link.

[MattSh]

36. Hope there's many more stories like this soon...

[greenisasgreendoes]

40. I would suggest being careful in judgment

I understand the outrage a few replies here express over the blind obedience of the people in uniform. I am a veteran of the first Gulf War myself. I resisted and served a month of penal colony style punishment while they figured out how to get rid of me. I was lucky to come out with little or no black marks in my record. I was the old man among the enlisted at 22 with some college experience. I have always been the kind of person who pushes at my fears and did things "my way" for better or worse. In any event these things made me a very unusual conscript. I had to act alone. There was clandestine support, but it was not the majority. I am proud that my actions did inspire 3 others to say no however. (2 took the gay route and one chose to feign mental illness) I was very purposely isolated from the rest. I was run by chaplains, psychologists, XOs COs First Sergeants etc who all told me that I was wrong, immoral, confused, evil, sick, cowardly, etc depending on their position. This was relentless and universal. I was constantly threatened with violence from my peers as well. The only supportive moments came both rarely and in secret. As few as they were it was none the less like a breath of fresh air. I was far from any civilian structures and even my letters to friends and family seemed surreal compared to the daily reality I faced. The treatment that I got was well publicized to the rest along with the rumor that I was being charged with desertion in the face of the enemy and faced the death penalty. Of course this never came to anything, but such rumors are powerful indeed. So how would you have acted in this situation when you were 18 years old as 90% of my peers were. Remember my nicknames were grandpa and professor to these guys and I was just a 22 year old kid with 3 years of college!

Now I also ask if your logic is right about the shared responsibility, and I would agree it is, are you prepared to go to jail now? You can stop paying taxes. You can lay your body down in the gears of the machine in many ways and you will surely wind up in jail or dead. It would be the purest answer to the problem. I agree with you and I am not prepared to do these things for many reasons. So I accept my responsibility and I try to live with it. I resist by thinking, learning, feeling as honestly as I can. I express empathy whenever I can and smile at everyone. If an opportunity to do more falls in my lap I will take it. Until then I do just this. Anger and blame are not helpful as much as I sympathize with them.

[Tom Joad]

43. thanks so much for your contrbution here.

I think we must support those in the military who do resist.
We must not be harshly judgmental of those who do not. Compassion is key. Listening is key.

Welcome to du!!!

[defendandprotect]

57. Good to be reminded that we are not walking in their shoes --- and they are on a frightful journey -

[Mountainman]

44. I was lucky in Vietnam. I decided to not support the war effort after six months.

My CO got me on a permanent detail building security fences and that's how I fininshed out my tour. Me my buddy and our 3/4 ton truck loaded with barbed wire.

Sometimes I feel I did not do my duty but other times I feel that I should not have to support a war I did not feel was right and I wanted to survive my tour.

How people feel about me and what I did doesn't bother me now.

[TheMadMonk]

48. There's a lot more "Gradpas" this time around.

Grandpas on their second, third perhaps even fourth tour in a war zone.

Perhaps their numbers will make the difference.

[FREEWILL56]

63. Are you suggesting that all in the military try your route

making it a blue flu? I like that idea.

[Kurovski]

42. Kick. (nt)

[focusfan]

46. oh yeah they say better for an American to die

than a Iraqi Soldier we should leave there if there not going
to take responsibilty

[malaise]

47. Great news

At last a surge of objections to this clusterfuck.

[lovuian]

53. The Military is rebelling just like Vietnam

the men and women serving are waking up to the impossible situation that they are in

but together they can stand against tyranny

who was the jerk on the phone that ordered those men to do that

I hate this War like I hated Vietnam

[The Wizard]

56. I was on field operations

with Charlie Company, 1-26 Infantry in the 1st Infantry Division in Vietnam 67-68. Glad to hear they're standing up to insanity. We did it then, and they're doing it now. Bravo to Company C, 1/26, First Infantry Division. I hope they know that we, the survivors of Vietnam, will be with them when they return home.

[whistle]

61. It is about time that soldiers stood up for their rights to not have to

...die for a worthless, illegal and immoral war