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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:46 PM
Original message
O, Come All Ye Truly Unfaithful
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 12:30 AM by NanceGreggs
I don’t deign to speak for everyone. But I, for one, am sick to death hearing from so-called Christians about how hard done by they are at the hands of Democrats, Liberals, homosexuals, civil rights organizations, et al.

I am particularly tired of hearing the allegations of Christian-bashing from people who have completely abandoned the teachings of one Jesus Christ in order to align themselves instead with a president and political party that espouse everything Christ specifically taught against – those who have embraced the politically expedient god of war, famine, pestilence and death, and have talked themselves into believing that Thou Shalt Not Place Any Other Gods Before Me was not really a Commandment, but merely a serving suggestion.

To be as blunt as I feel the situation calls for, if you’re making a living as a whore, don’t feign umbrage when someone starts bashing virginity. You are not, despite your most fervent efforts to include yourself, part of the group that’s being disparaged.

And that is precisely how I feel about the psuedo-Christians who are inundating the news and the airwaves with their cries of persecution. When you’re being thrown into an arena with hungry lions, feel free to speak up. But someone wishing you Happy Holidays doesn’t come close to persecution – and if you honestly believe it does, you might want to watch some vintage footage of what was done to people in Bergen-Belsen or Auschwitz to get a clearer idea of what real religious persecution looks like, up close and personal.

What really sticks in my craw is the fact that the OPCs (Outraged Pretend Christians) were so willingly led to the altar of BushCo and the Republican party – not as mindless sheep too dumb to know what they were buying, but as anxious zealots desirous of having their greed, their bigotry, their homophobia, and their arrogant ignorance validated.

Those who didn’t want to hear that they were their brother’s keeper longed for political-minded preachers to assure them that social programs meant to assist the poor were nothing more than handouts to Welfare Queens living large on their monthly checks. Ergo, no need to support that.

Those who didn’t want to be reminded that torture and the murder of innocents was not in keeping with their Christian beliefs prayed for a modern-day interpreter of the New Testament – like Falwell or Robertson – who would assure them that killing Muslims, or inflicting pain and destruction on those who worshiped God in any way other than donating their money at the local mega-church was completely justified.

Those who put the pursuit of personal wealth above more spiritual endeavors lived on tenterhooks for years, concerned that their greed would lead to their being mounted on the backs of camels, desperately trying to pass through the eye of a needle in order to gain entrance to heaven – and lo and behold, a Christian president came along to assure them that tax-cuts for the wealthy was the godly-and-just reward for those willing to look after themselves rather than others.

It should come as no surprise that the not-so-mindless sheep have suddenly become unafraid to walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death – for the rod and staff of consumerism and the denial of the needs of the homeless, the sick and the hungry shall comfort them – which is pretty much what they were hoping to hear all along.

Christianity, in its true form and meaning, is not dead, nor is it in danger of being extinguished or persecuted out of existence. It is as strong as it ever was.

It lives within the hearts and minds of those who choose not to forget the words of a carpenter who walked the earth two thousand years ago, words which still hold meaning for those who aren’t looking for promises from a political party that, having had their lawyers look into the matter, can assure them that there are at least a dozen legal loopholes that can be trotted out come Judgment Day.

As for the psuedo-Christians – those who have tied up the infomercial call-lines, their credit card numbers at the ready to order the Green Prayer Cloth of Prosperity (because Jesus suddenly remembered that he wants you to be rich, rich, rich!) – you can take your hypocrisy, your pathetic self-absorption, and your religious pomposity and shove it into a place where the truths of the Sermon on the Mount won’t find it – or the speaker thereof simply can’t be bothered looking for it.

O, Come All Ye Truly Unfaithful, and remember that as you do to the least amongst us, so you do unto the Lord you have steadfastly ignored, choosing instead to praise the replacement Savior, a war-mongering, torture-loving, money-grubbing idol who is apparently much more to your liking – simply because he is created in your own image, and is more than willing to bless your pride rather than your humility, your greed rather than your generosity, your sins rather than your virtues.

As far as I am concerned, you can shut the fuck up – and while I realize that such a phrase is not in keeping with true Christian values, I am confident that Christ himself will understand the appropriateness of such an admonishment.

No doubt Jesus would be more circumspect in choosing his words, but – unlike the Moneychangers in the Temple who are passing themselves off as pastors of the flock – I don’t hold myself out as His official spokesperson.

The fact of the matter is that I am not even a Christian. But I do respect and revere the teachings of He who taught that loving one's neighbor was to be held in higher esteem than loving one's self.

And in the grand scheme of things, that makes me a better Christian than those who call themselves such these days - and if their incessant whining is on my last nerve, I can only imagine how pissed-off Jesus is.


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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Merely a serving suggestion."
:rofl:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, haven't you heard?
Doing unto others is equivalent to a Lipton's side dish - and it's microwavable.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. I agree, Nance, on pseudo-Christians. It makes it hard on the rest
of us who truly love to live the beatitudes and the rest, for the sake of peace and hope.
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dan_dy Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. Leave us alone, puh-leass !
They can be as abused and whining as makes them happy if they will just stop trying to inflict their self-righteous platitudes and laws on the rest of us.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Abou Ben Adhem

by James Henry Leigh Hunt

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold: -
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?" -The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thank you so much for this ...
... may we all strive to find our names entered into that Book in the same way.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. indeed n/t
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comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. lovely poem
nt
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. We read Abou Ben Adhen in sixth grade
I sometimes post it where I see religious fanatics getting out of hand.

The ones who protest the loudest at it are, of course, the usual suspects.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
52. Issac Asimov offers up a story of suggesting "Alphabetical Order"...
...as the reason Abou Ben Adhen topped the list in his 6th grade encounter with the piece.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #52
88. I used to like anything Isaac Asimov offered up anyway!
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. for within all men, dwells the divine
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
78. My favourite poem since I was in Grade 2.
Thanks a bunch. I wish more people would read it.

:hug:
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abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wow....one of your greatest ever
even after about 600 posts, I'm not sure how to "kick and recommend" but here goes...........this was just freakin brilliant.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. you just wrote about the way i feel..thanks.
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comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. as an athiest
everything you describe above appearers to be typical Christian behavior to me. When has Christianity opposed the torture and murder of innocents? When in the last 1700 years, since Christianity became the official state religion of the Roman empire, have Christians practiced the teachings of jesus?

As Thomas Edison said "religion is bunk" and Christianity is no exception.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I try never to confuse ...
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 01:28 AM by NanceGreggs
... those who adhere to the teachings of Christ with those who take up the brand name of Christianity and use it for their own purposes -- which has happened throughout history, and is happening to this day.

There are still many Christians who practice the teachings of Jesus - they are simply overshadowed by those who don't, but make a big display of saying they do.

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insanad Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
36. Best Christian I know is an Agnostic
Another one out of the ballpark Nance!! Your writing is so engaging, raw, and real. I have a crush on you and I don't even like women (like that, not that there's anything wrong with that).

My man Bill is an Agnostic. He's not sure if there's a God, or even about Jesus's ultimate sacrifice on behalf of the human race, but he does know the GOLDEN RULE and applies it daily to just about everyone he knows. It's interesting that so much has been written about Christ and churches built, costumes created, parades paraded, but the bottom line is his message and most people get so caught up in the pomp and circumstance and POSING that they have completely lost sight of the actual message. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" could be applied liberally to every single policy, public, private, govt., international, business, etc.. What would the world be like if the teachings and tolerance and tenderness of Christ were adhered to with the same fervor that the "Christians" apply to their militant exclusionary religious differences? I'm always in awe that there could be so many factions to Christianity but ultimately they all forgot the message.

Would Jesus vote for your candidate? What makes someone Christlike rather than "Christian"? The suggestions of compassion for their fellow man, of being willing to get down and dirty and on their knees to see the low people of the earth from their perspective, and then act upon those needs to help raise up their brothers and sisters is far more emulating of Christ than one who stands at a pulpit and pounds it in fierce satanic Nazi style exclusion. "Christians" have turned me away from religion but not from the example that Christ gave through his words and actions. The Golden Rule is the only religious doctrine I desire to adhere to. In the words of Benjamin Franklin, "What is Serving God, tis serving Man", and one of my all time favorites, "Example is the best sermon".
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ldf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
69. excellent post
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 09:29 PM by ldf
the real, bottom line, basic philosophy is the golden rule.

treat others the way you would like to be treated. how much simpler can you get?

all the rest of the trappings are just that. trappings.

all those trappings, just to reinforce common sense.

:shrug:

until you take into account the control and manipulation factors.

THEN you understand WHY the trappings...

par for the course, nance. you are one of the diamonds in the rough, that is du....

from us, to you...

:grouphug:


edit to add, WELCOME insanad!
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desertbill Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
80. Thanks
I take all that as a compliment. Another test I like to use, and think should be used by many more people, is: "What would my mother think of my actions, choices, statements, etc." Assuming one has heard innumerable lectures during childhood on duty, fairness, goodness, honesty, empathy, and any number of other "goodly and Christlike subjects", remembering your mother's (or father's) voice repeating those lessons can only serve to keep you on the straight and narrow. I remember well my grandmother harping that the Golden Rule if truly followed would be the only rule needed to guide one through life. YATLOML
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insanad Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. YOTLOML as well Desert Bill
I love it when you do unto me as you would have me do unto you. Maybe tonight??? It could be so spiritual. Welcome to DU
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. AMEN!
You've said it EXACTLY as I have felt it for years! Great writing, Nance! :woohoo:
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
49. So true....when we first moved into the Appalachian mountains.
we heard 'She/He is a good Christian woman/man'. I heard it so much, I began to think of it as 'Hi, how you doing'. As I got to know the local population, I experienced the good Christian women & men as the worst gossips, the most judgmental, the stingiest among us. But they did make a big show of all their 'Christian works' and treks to church 3 times a week.

Thanks...but....ah....no thanks.

Isn't there an old saying 'By their deeds you shall know them.'?
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comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
59. NanceGreggs, I hope you do not
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 06:51 PM by comradebillyboy
take my anti religious comments as a personal attack on you. They are not meant to be. But your essay clearly points out the contradictions of Christianity in America. I respect those, like you, who practice what they preach, but I think you are very much in the minority among those who call themselves Christians.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. No offence was taken, my friend ...
... nor did I think one was implied!

:hi:
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
67. Christianity should be more rightly named Paulianity.
Because after Saul fell off his horse, hit his head and saw god, Jesus got lost in the shuffle.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Well Billyboy
If all you say is true, then why do you even bother to comment? Go about your life knowing that you are enlightened. I truly hope things work out great for you.


On my end, I found the poem quite lovely.

I was going to skip over it, as I usually find most poetry tiresome at best.

But this poem was clever and to the point.

A good lesson for us all, believers as well as the unbelievers.

Cheers all.

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comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
57. I do like the poem too
but I comment on religion because I enjoy expressing my opinion, which is quite negative regarding all religions. Thanks for you good wishes, and all the best to you as well.

Happy holidays to all
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
81. Happy Holidays to all !
And to my Atheist brothers and sisters the best wishes too!

:hug:
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
11. Just this last weekend
one of our local pastors wrote a letter to the editor excoriating all the presidential candidates ON THE LEFT who have suddenly decided to pretend to be religious in order to get votes. And this after a whole spate of Huckabisms and the Romney "I'll Have My Own Planet" speech. Not that we should be surprised, given the idolatry of the GOP when it comes to every mention of Reagan, he who coined the phrase "welfare queen" on the basis of one - ONE - very extreme and isolated case, and in so doing earned the everlasting love and devotion of those for whom wealth is the only religion that counts. These pretend-Christians read that Jesus said, "The poor you will have with you always," and didn't bother to continue reading, choosing instead to take His remark as the 11th commandment.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Oh, so true ...
... the 11th Commandment of today's psuedo-Christian: "Thou Shalt Read Between the Lines -- and Find Thyself an 'Out' For Thy Behavior."

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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. and our revered billy clinton followed him into the abyss
with "welfare reform", whatta guy
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
32. That famous Welfare Queen
was a fabrication. Never existed. It was Reagan's subtle bigotry at work.
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riglerej Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. Ironic ads by Google (wtf?)
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 12:53 AM by riglerej
OK, I realize that by the time somebody else comes along and reads this, the Google Ad for this page will have probably changed, and those good enough to have donated recently will never see it at all, but I just had to point out that the banner at the bottom of this page was for meeting Christian Singles. Who do you think their target audience is, OPCs or good folks like Nance describes above?

(Edited to point out the obvious...excellent rant Nance!)
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Well, either way ...
... welcome to the discussion, my friend!

:hi:
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insanad Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. Boobs- Christian Singles
I get that pop-up ad on a zillion different sites as well and it's funny because it shows this alluring blonde with enormous bosoms, perky and proud all ready to catch the attention of all the horny guys out there. Christian boobies, Agnostic, even Athiest boobies are all equal in the sight of the Lord, or whomever is trolling the net looking for love. Ironically, when I was dating and using the net for my "Shopping at the Thrift Store of Love", it was amazing how many married men would respond and how many claimed to be "Good Church Goers", but just needed a little diversion on the side. Why do they have to preface the site with "Christian Singles". They aren't any different than any other singles site and the hook ups have little to do with Ja-eee-zus than they do with the basic huMAN need to fornicate and spread ones seed as far and fast as it can be flung. If a hottie posts on any site, Christian or not the guys flock with the reverence usually given to the Holy Virgin, only they're hoping she's a dirty little horny needy virgin who'll give it up for a cheap dinner and a couple of tedious compliments. (not that I'VE ever done that...ok, once or twice, but I was hungry).
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
71. I've often wondered lately if the term "Christian Singles" is acutally
code for something else. Perhaps pertaining to something deviant.

Just my mind wondering (wandering)...
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. brilliant, again
you just read my mind and wrote it!
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DeanDem10 Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. very timely
I was working on something on this insufferable theocrats myself. Now I don't need to. Well... though I doubt any I'd do would be as good as this, I do think everyone possible should speak out about the rising theocratic chorus that is our country, and much of the world.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
17. Outstanding essay
I have been wishing, oh do I wish that I could write something that encapsulates all of my thoughts on this topic, but in a compact format that others could read - without turning into a ramble. You have done a fabulous job at just that - kudos!
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. Another in a long line of.....NanceGreggs BRAVOs!
I`ve not been able to figure it out, this Pretend Christian bullshit hyped by so many in corporate media and their Beltway Pundit guests. Even the Pretend Christians themselves confuse me.

Who WOULD Jesus bomb? Which Christians would declare...."They chose to stay there"....when pointing to victims floating down Main Street in a flooded Ninth Ward? Which Christians would ponder a prison population of over 2,000,000 yet issue an unforgiving call for stiffer punishments for drug addicts and the death penalty for juveniles? Which Joe Scarborough Christians would argue for torture? Which Christians would shun homosexuals and ignore AIDS victims or act like homeless children deserve their plight? Or complain because someone without health care went to an emergency room? Which Christians would jeer at those raising concerns about global warming? Or White Phosphorus? Or refugees? Want an answer to some of these which-Christian questions? Listen to Christian Bill Bennett or Christian Rush Limbaugh or Christian Dick Cheney or Christian Glen Beck. These OPCs are as plentiful as the people killed by the policies of Christian George Bush.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
19. "I can only imagine how pissed-off Jesus is."
No, I think He is over ranting about how we sin and contradict ourselves in hypocrisy, but I'm sure He is dissappointed that He won't have much company joining Him in heaven. Those loopholes are one-way tickets to hell because one accepts the sin rather than try to be a better person. What one calls one's self is irrelevant as He sees the truth and knows how good, bad, or evil you are. Those like Robertson shall be judged more harshly for sinning in the Lord's name for those that are truth believers. For those that aren't then see them as just another get rich asshole telling you to do as they say and not as they do subject to their judgement and approvals.
Good post Nancy, but I don't need reminded of the evils being done in God's name as I see it nearly everyday, but some may need to open their eyes to it and maybe your post will help to do just that.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
21. Don't forget 30 million Americans represented by 1 Congressman
http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10277230&top_story=1

Coincidentally I found this on Digg just prior to coming here

Snip/
According to figures compiled by the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS), almost 30m people claimed “no religion” in 2001, a doubling from 1991. This dwarfs America’s 2.8m who describe themselves as Jews according to the same survey (although other estimates suggest that the Jewish population is much larger, at about 6m). Catholicism, the country’s largest Christian denomination, boasts 51m followers. In other words, irreligion claims a surprisingly large number of adherents.

Snip/
And yet those with no religious beliefs are shut out from political power. Earlier this year, a secularist group offered $1,000 to the highest-ranking politician in the land who would publicly proclaim no belief in God. This turned out to be Peter Stark, a Democratic congressman from the San Francisco area. He is the only congressman, of 535, who professes no belief in the Almighty.
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emanymton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. But, But, But ... I'm A Victim. I Can't Be Blamed.
.
Thank you. You have a clear understanding of where we have been and how we got there.

How do we get back to the light?


Love your writing in all its forms.
.
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
23. Christofascists - Bet they love that one.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. Amen.
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amb123 Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
27. The Christian Fascist Pigs are singing
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 08:10 AM by amb123
Jesus loves me, this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Kill the Liberals, Moslems and Fags!
Stuff them all in body bags!
Yes Jesus loves me!
Yes Jesus hates you!
The Lord wants me to kill you!
the Bible tells me so!


Yet they scream, "We're the most persecuted Majority in America Today!"

And they call ME a "Christian-Basher!"
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shirlden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
28. Can I have an AMEN !!!
The fact of the matter is that I am not even a Christian. But I do respect and revere the teachings of He who taught that loving one's neighbor was to be held in higher esteem than loving one's self.

And in the grand scheme of things, that makes me a better Christian than those who call themselves such these days - and if their incessant whining is on my last nerve, I can only imagine how pissed-off Jesus is.

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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
29. A question
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 08:57 AM by spooky3
about your "bashing virgins" analogy: I don't see many (if any) people bashing (meaning unfairly criticizing) Christianity (as you have defined it/virginity). It seems to me that what the O'Reilly et al. crowd (psuedo-Christians) get bent out of shape about is legitimate (i.e., not bashing) criticism of their own actions (of "whoring" not "virginity"). So maybe I misunderstood what you said?
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
63. My apologies ...
... I could have been clearer.

I used that analogy to say that what too many perceive as 'Christian-bashing' is simply a bashing of those who aren't actually Christians, but hold themselves out to be.

It is not Christian-bashing; it's hypocrisy-bashing -- but as is the usual course in such matters, the hypocrites don't recognize themselves as such, and assume the pot-shots are aimed at religious beliefs and not at themselves.

When I hear some war-mongering, bigoted, torture-supporter going on about how people are going after his Christianity, my first (and most obvious) thought is that they are not a Christian in any sense of the word. Therefore, they are in no position to assume that any barbs aimed at them have anything to do with religion.

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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. no apologies necessary! You are so right;
and I suspect some, most, possibly all of them know damn well what is going on, but hope we'll all buy their less-than-deft deflection.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
30. Thank you, well stated (as usual)
Have you considered collecting your essays into book form? I would buy a copy.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
31. Oh Nance, you made the poor freeper lurkers cry. Again.
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 09:52 AM by DCKit
Billy Graham's son was just on CNN. What a winger tool.

I'm not going to quote, 'cause I was barely paying attention, but:

Any Repuke candidate would make a great president. That includes serial adulterer Ghouliani, Crazy Huckleberry and the heretic Mormon. WTF?

He specifically refrained from endorsing any single candidate (smart move). But since when does ol' Billy's ministry implicitly endorse adulterous, heretical or insane candidates? They do now, as long as they have "teh values."

I have several family members who will (not) greatly enjoy reading your post, and intend to save a copy for future correspondence with anyone who thinks they've got the keys to heaven because they CALL themselves a Christian.

Thanks again for putting down all our thoughts in a manner even a freeper could understand - if they ever chose to revisit reality, of course.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
33. Brilliant
Nothing else needs be said.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
35. Excellent as always! I've been saying for years that the vocal 'Christians' we hear from on a
daily basis are the ones whose churches are 'about Jesus' (worshiping their man-up version of Christ) and not the quiet, humble Christians practicing the 'way' Jesus taught. I'm not a Christian either, but attempt to live my life according to the principles of Jesus.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
37. One of the great tenets of Christianity, is that one must
be willing to sacrifice when the need arises.

The "sacrifice" can be anything; time, clothes, food, money, ego, pride, and sometimes, the possibility of losing your life, property, and just about anything else. It is not a question of the "value" of such things to an individual, but rather the value gained for humanity as a whole, or a part of humanity within a personal scope.

Much to my chagrin, one of the easiest "sacrifices" that can be made, usually is just overlooked...Time. It takes little to spend an hour or two just listening to someone in distress, lending an ear while they search for an answer to a problem, and yet it is considered so "valuable", that it is beyond most to even contemplate using it for other than self-aggrandizement or "profit".

With all of the pseudo-christians ramping up the hype about "The War On Christmas", perhaps it should be noted that one of the other tenets of the religion is humility.

One last thing...It is never courageous to stand up for the popular ideas. Courage comes to bear when one stands up for the unpopular but right reasons and ideologies. Justice, truth, equality, knowledge, understanding, compassion and empathy have lost favor over the past 7+ years; but the quality we've lost and should miss the most is forgiveness. If those who howl and screech about being "crucified" because of their beliefs, (regardless of said beliefs), learned acceptance and forgiveness, I might give them a little more respect.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
72. Excelllent point Ras
I just had a reccent encounter with an Uncle who listens to Rush
and is an Amway Christian . :puke:

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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. This post said it all, Nance.
Good job. K & R
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. Very well-said!! Another K&R...
As an Atheist I find that most Atheists I know and probably even more who don't say so are more Christian than Christians.

They do good not because Jesus told them to or because god will fry their asses for all eternity if they don't, but simply because it is the right thing to do.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. Said the king to the people everywhere
Listen to what I say!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'm only on the second paragraph
but once again :yourock:

Off to finish!

Nance, you missed your calling if you're not being paid to write.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
44. K & R
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eagler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. Anytime you (or anyone )lumps all members of a certain group
together and then displays a bigotry for the entire group, it is wrong. Certainly not all Muslims are terrorists, not all Buddhists are docile holy men, nor are all Hindus nonviolent and nonjudgmental. Over the centuries countless millions have died for all of these faiths - and atheistic societies have killed countless numbers of those who would oppose their organized beliefs ( or lack thereof). The problem is not religious belief - the problem is humanity and what it is capable of, whatever creed it may assume. There is a definite bigotry against Christians in general being fostered on DU and it is dangerous. As a Christian,I oppose bigotry against homosexuals, atheists, or for any group of people, because Jesus said that "Whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do it to me, and whatever you do not do to the least of my brethren, you do not do it to me"
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #46
66. I certainly don't pretend to have read ...
... every post on this website.

However, what I am seeing is not Christian-bashing, but hypocrisy-bashing.

As Democrats, our party ideals are much more in keeping with Christian teaching than our Republican counterparts; i.e. we are for social programs that assist the homeless, the needy, the hungry, etc.

And all we hear from the GOP is how they are the Christians - all of their stated policies to the contrary.

Maybe I've missed it, but I have yet to see anyone on this site disparaging Christian beliefs - only disparaging those who call themselves Christians while promoting political policies that are contrary to true Christian tenets.

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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
47. Pure Win:
"To be as blunt as I feel the situation calls for, if you’re making a living as a whore, don’t feign umbrage when someone starts bashing virginity. You are not, despite your most fervent efforts to include yourself, part of the group that’s being disparaged."

:woohoo:
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
48. Kick and rec and THANKS, Nance...
...from an old hippie who remembers when 'Christianity' hadn't been perverted.

:kick:
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MrBlueSky Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
50. Another winner, Ms. Greggs!
As a Progressive Christian, I believe you have (once again) put into words the way I've been feeling since the 1994 Republican Revolution... and the Reagan White House before that!
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
51. Wooo Hooo! Bravo! K and R
From "PEOPLE OF THE LIE"

by M. Scott Peck MD


"The central defect of 'the evil' is not the sin but the refusal to acknowledge it. More often than not these people will be looked at as solid citizens.
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
53. It won't let me ...
It won't let me recommend. Too few posts. But, I certainly would if I could! I've been reading your "Rants" for a couple of months now. They're always terrific. But, this one pegged how I feel exactly! Thank-you
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #53
75. Welcome to DU, verges.
Nance is one of our shining stars. If you want a general idea of how DU feels about something, she usually gets it right on the nose.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
54. That Was Just Too Good for Words
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
55. K&R. (nt)
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
56. NanceGreggs belts another one out of the park
Sometimes my neck gets sore from nodding my head at the end of each paragraph of your posts.

Nice job
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
58. Amen!
K and R'd
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
61. All this started when the Greeks threw the Christians to the lions.
If you can believe that Af. Am. woman on The View!!
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
62. BRAVO!!!!!!
You have said everything I have wanted to say. And much better that I ever could.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
68. Jesus didn't attack liberals, homosexuals, civil rights organizations and he was for health care.
There has been only one Christian. They caught him and crucified him--early.
- Notebook, 1898

The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetics in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

This is a Christian country. Why, so is hell. Inasmuch as "Strait is the way and narrow is the gate, and few-few-are they that enter in thereat" has had the natural effect of making hell the only really prominent Christian community in any of the worlds; but we don't brag of this and certainly it is not proper to brag and boast that America is a Christian country when we all know that certainly five-sixths of our population could not enter in at the narrow gate.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be--a Christian.
- Mark Twain's Notebook

You can never find a Christian who has acquired this valuable knowledge, this saving knowledge, by any process but the everlasting and all-sufficient "people say." In all my seventy-two years and a half I have never come across such another ass as this human race is.
- Mark Twain's Autobiography

The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

I bring you the stately matron named Christendom, returning bedraggled, besmirched, and dishonored, from pirate raids in Kiaochow, Manchuria, South Africa, and the Philippines, with her soul full of meanness, her pocket full of boodle, and her mouth full of pious hypocrisies. Give her soap and towel, but hide the looking glass.
- "A Salutation from the 19th to the 20th Century," 12/31/1900
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
70. Amen.
These are the hollow soulless creatures that, like balloons, can be filled with some blow-hard's hot air, & tethered to their belt to follow them wherever they lead. Bobbing along, never touching the ground of "reality", instead flocking together like scared sheep.

What I find ironic, is the false-prophets their Book speaks of are the very leaders these idiots follow and adore!

The blind who will not see are taking us all down.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
73. Brilliant! I have to say that the entire
rant is right on...and I was just thinking about this today.

Bravo!!

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
74. Just wanted to add ...
... to what I've said about the hypocrites being the ones who think that when they are being called on their hypocrisy, it's equivalent to Christian-bashing.

This piece has been posted on another right-wing (nameless) site, and they're all in an uproar over the Christian-bashing I've done in this post.

I just LOVE it when the very people I'm talking about prove my point for me.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. Timely giggles from an email I just received...
A man died and went to heaven As he stood in front of St. Peter at the Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind him. He asked, "What are all those clocks?"

St. Peter answered, "Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone on Earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you lie the hands on your clock will move."

"Oh," said the man, "Whose clock is that?"

"That's Mother Teresa's. The hands have never moved, indicating that she never told a lie."

"Incredible," said the man. "And whose clock is that one?"

St. Peter responded, "That's Abraham Lincoln's clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Abe told only two lies in his entire Life."

"Where's George W. Bush's clock?" asked the man.

"George's clock is in Jesus' office. He's using it as a ceiling fan."

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. *snicker*
:rofl::thumbsup:
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insanad Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #74
84. Rush Limbaugh
I find that phenomenon a lot too Nance. Especially on talk radio where some corpulent bloated gas bag (I won't say his name but his initials are Rush Limbaugh/Bill OReilly) claims that the other side is presenting half truths, taking things out of context, manipulating the press or that the people that don't agree with THEM are the lemmings and unwilling to think for themselves. I've never met a more dysfunctional illiterate bunch than the dittohead devotees that follow such purveyors of tripe and cod-swallop. (I don't really know what cod swallop is but it sure sounds nasty and seems appropriate to the situation).

What they decry is exactly the thing they're so entrenched in, just like the Christians who claim that God loves everyone but then preach that anyone who doesn't do and think and believe just as they do will bring down God's condemnation. As a former Mormon I grew up with the most backward and exclusionary baloney one can imagine in this hypocrisy and it's taken years to expel this mentality in judgment. It ALL seems like CODSWALLOP to me.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #74
90. Let Me Ask You...
How do you feel about televangelists? Are they true Christians? Just curious how you feel.

-Paige
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
77. good thoughts as usual Nance, but
don't fundamentalists also proclaim mainstream or progressive Christians are "pseudo-Christians" and fundamentalists are "true Christians"? Religion is just a mechanism for justifying beliefs people already have by appealing to a daddy figure no one can argue against.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. It really doesn't matter who calls who what ...
What matters, IMHO, is that a Christian adheres to the teachings of Christ.

And the minute the Fundies backed Bush and the GOP's policies (torture, war, no help for the poor, etc.), they abandoned everything Christ taught them to embrace.

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #77
86. Ignoring your broad brush (Hinduism and Native American religions
don't fit that mold at all)--it's easy to call oneself a Christian. The challenge is living it (as is the case for any belief).
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
82. Brilliant Piece!
I've long believed that people need to stop judging others based on their professed beliefs and start judging them based on their actual behavior.

This what I try to explain to people who seem to take issue with my being agnostic (only agnostic because I concede I can't disprove God any more than I can disprove Zeus or Thor).

At any rate, it's an excellent piece.

www.theyoungturks.com
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
85. Excellent post Nancy. I've posted similar thoughts, but you say it better.
I've had several threats from the pseudo-Christians that what I was saying would push them out of the Democratic Party, but IMO the net gain far exceeds the net loss if any. The 2006 election showed the gain, the polls show the gain and the disappearance of many of the "support the Troops" ribbons that imply, it's good for our men and women soldiers to die over there instead of us dying over here which is un-Christian as can be.

I do wish for a veto proof Democrat controlled Congress to accelerate backing out all of Bush's stupid ideas. I also wish Democrats everywhere were a bit more tolerant of what can be done now.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
89. k
ick
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